Neurodivergent, twice-exceptional teen students have few forums to express their lived educational experiences. Recently, Silicon Valley 2e advocacy group REEL launched its “Living & Learning 2e” blog series, dedicated to giving twice-exceptional teen and young adult students a place to share their voices. The bloggers include gifted students from ninth grade through sophomore year in college with a range of learning differences such as autism, ADHD, dysgraphia, and anxiety. While every 2e learner is different, come hear the common themes that emerged across the six bloggers’ experiences that shine a light on ways parents and educators can better support them, then hear from a couple of the bloggers themselves! Read the transcript here Introduction and Welcome 0:00 - Thank you very much for coming to our session on living and learning to eat what teens say. If you don't mind keeping your mute on, we're going to have a really good Q&A session at the end where you can ask lots of questions. Guest Introductions 0:31 - Hello, I am Cali Turk, I am the co-founder of a local advocacy group called REAL and I am joined today by Serena Chen who is finishing her senior year at Saint Francis High School and is also the founder of Neurodiversity. We are supposed to also be joined by Ava Miller who is a Palo Alto Unified alumna who finished up through middle college and was a Gunn High School student. She's currently a freshman at Sarah Lawrence College and we will hope she will pop in later to share her points of view as well. Who is REAL 1:14 - Before we jumped in I just wanted to make sure you knew who REAL is and why we are doing this presentation. REAL stands for Resilience and Engagement for Every Learner and we support 2e or twice exceptional kids by building bridges between their educators and their parents. We spend a lot of our time with educators raising awareness about the fact that there are twice exceptional kids and helping to develop their understanding of how to serve these kids better. We provide resources so that school can be a place that 2e learners can be successful and go to school and feel successful every day. For parents we disseminate and create 2e resources online and in person because we want to help parents be able to advocate for their children more effectively and support their 2e kids primarily at school but also at home. Agenda 2:09 - Our plan for today is I'm going to do a very brief overview of what 2e is in case any of you who've come aren't familiar with the term. Then I'm going to do a quick overview of the blog series that we put together and sort of why we did it, what motivated us, and who our bloggers are. I'm going to then go over the key themes from the blog series and Serena is going to be hopping in and out and letting us know her points of view for the things that we came up with. Then we will have time for Q&A - I have a few questions for Serena and Ava if she's able to join us, and we'll open up for you as well to have questions. We will close with some ideas on how you could get involved or if you have a teenager who's twice exceptional how they could get involved with our work. Definition of 2e 2:59 - Before we jump in I just want to make sure everyone is working with the same definition of what it means to be 2e or twice exceptional. Twice exceptional kids are the ones who have really distinguishing strength - so they may have a high ability in a specific area or they may have high abilities in many areas or they may be really creative or have great potential. But they also have very complex challenges so they might have a specific learning disability like dyslexia or dysgraphia or dyscalculia, they might have ADHD, they might have a general anxiety disorder or autism. So when you see these two things together that's a twice exceptional student. 3:44 - It's very interesting because I actually listened to a presentation yesterday from the Schwab Learning Center at Stanford that hosted a young woman who is in her mid-20s and is dyslexic and she admitted that she went most of her life believing that you could not have both strengths and challenges. So this is a common misunderstanding that people have and it's really these very complex children that help us see that these things can go together and it can be a complicated life when they do. The Blog Series Purpose 4:12 - As part of our work at REAL we really wanted to highlight the voices of the twice exceptional and neurodivergent. We hosted a panel last fall for the Stanford Neurodiversity Project where we were able to have six different neurodivergent youth speak out about their experiences and we really realized the power of having them be able to really say in their own voices what their experiences are like. We felt like it would be really helpful for parents and teachers to hear their stories and to get specific tips about what they could do to support them. So we launched our living and learning 2e blog series and really wanted to give these kids a voice in what their experiences have been like. 5:15 - Once we had the blog posts - we have about six right now - we wanted to look across all of the posts and see what were some of the themes that came out that were common across all of our bloggers. Because there really are quite a lot of common themes that we can learn from by listening to each of their voices and then putting them together. We wrote an article for 2e News that really outlines in detail what those themes are and if you'd like to see that article you can go to 2e News and read it - you have to register but it's free. This presentation really draws on this article. Who are the Bloggers - Chris 5:54 - Before we jump into the themes I wanted you to know who you're hearing from. We are so proud of each of these young people for sharing their stories so authentically and openly. They are each just such interesting and amazing people that I couldn't be more excited to tell you about them. 6:24 - Our very first blogger used a pseudonym named Chris and Chris is a former PAUSD student who just is a super analytical deep thinker, really a kind-hearted young man. He runs role-playing games for younger students but he has really debilitating anxiety stemming from his autism and his ADHD and also just a lot of school trauma that he experienced through the years from people not really understanding his complex learning needs. For each of the bloggers we sort of pulled out one key quote that we thought really highlighted something special about their contribution. Chris's key contribution was: "If I've scored well on an exam but I'm behind in assignments, allow the flexibility to just let me move on since I've shown mastery of the content." 7:23 - One thing you might notice as we go through these is that a lot of the advice we have is for the teachers, but as a parent I think for you to understand what the experience has been like for the kids so that when you go to talk to your children's teachers you have a deeper perspective on what is needed and to be building that bridge for your student to do better in school. Who are the Bloggers - Mike 7:50 - One of our other bloggers and our youngest blogger is Mike who went through Palo Alto for K through eight and just started at a private high school for ninth grade. Mike is someone I've known since he was five and is an incredibly eloquent young person. I actually interviewed him for his blog post because he has dysgraphia so he didn't feel as comfortable just doing the basic writing, and his ability to just think on his feet eloquently is just incredible. He's also really incredibly imaginative and musical and performs with several different bands. 8:27 - Mike has both ADHD and dysgraphia and he being a little younger was more thinking about his own identity. "I don't want me being smart or me having disabilities to be part of who I am in any way possible - I'd rather just ignore them." Mike was definitely more at that "I just want to blend in" stage of life. Who are the Bloggers - Lucy 8:55 - Lucy is a Nueva School alumna and she's actually a current Stanford student. She was on our panel at the Stanford Neurodiversity Project and I learned so much from her about what it can take to support someone who has high anxiety and perfectionism. Lucy is a very creative writer, she knows several languages, she talks about just kind of her endless boundless curiosity and need to learn. But she very late in high school, maybe even before she went to college, learned that she was autistic. So she had struggled with anxiety for a long time but then finally received her autism diagnosis. 9:39 - She reflected: "I've learned to leverage my strengths, remain aware of my weaknesses, set realistic expectations and find the middle ground between soul-crushing rigidity and chaotic spontaneity." One of the things I really loved about Lucy was she said now that she knows herself better, she's fine if she goes to bed at 9:00 PM even if it's not what everyone else is doing - that's what she needs to do. So I really respect her advocacy for herself and her needs. Who are the Bloggers - Noah 10:10 - Noah is a young man who lives out in Pacifica and attends Summit Public Schools and he's just this really dynamic person. I highly encourage you to read all of these blogs - Noah's got just a dynamic personality. He's really into cars and photography and extreme sports. He has both autism and ADHD and I really loved this quote where he just really brings it to life: "I hope that everywhere I go I can help others realize that 2e people aren't a joke but more like super humans held back by mental chains." You can just see him working to break those chains. Who are the Bloggers - Ava 10:52 - Ava who I hope may still join us is a Palo Alto Unified alumna who finished her junior and senior years with middle college. She's currently a first year student at Sarah Lawrence College. She really loves environmental studies and writing and hiking and embroidery but she really was struggling a lot with anxiety and perfectionism and she didn't realize that was what was happening for her midway through high school. 11:26 - She really commented on the change that can happen for 2e learners: "Being a twice exceptional learner was a quality that got me into accelerated reading and advanced math classes because in elementary school learning is about learning. Sadly this is something I found changes over time." That's one of the key things we'll talk about is how the 2e experience from these six bloggers' perspective changed over time. Who are the Bloggers - Serena 11:49 - Our sixth last but definitely not least blogger is Serena who's with us today and she was a public school student in the Cupertino system from kindergarten through eighth grade. As I mentioned before she is graduating from Saint Francis High School this year. I definitely encourage you to read Serena's blog post - you'll hear all about how much she loves her trumpet and music, how important running is to her, and just really great language. She's the founder of a website called Neurodiversity which she'll talk about later and also has ADHD. 12:30 - Her quote that I will highlight is: "Just because a student may appear outwardly high achieving doesn't necessarily mean that they don't need any extra support. We've learned to mask this and often compensate in terrible ways." Serena, did you want to add anything to your introduction? Serena's Introduction 12:49 - Yeah sure, so thank you Cali for the introduction and also the invitation to be here. I'm Serena, I have ADHD and I'm a senior at Saint Francis. Prior to that I attended Murdock Portal Elementary School and Miller Middle School. I've been playing trumpet for eight years now and I've played in multiple ensembles throughout high school. I also had the privilege of speaking at the Stanford Neurodiversity Summit last fall. As Cali mentioned I'm also the founder of the Neurodiversity online resource platform and student community which I launched due to the stigma and also lack of accessible neurodiverse student groups around. Yeah, I'm very excited to be here today. Theme 1: What Does It Feel Like to Be 2e 13:33 - We'll jump into the themes now and the first one is around what does it feel like to be 2e. We have a whole format of list of questions that we ask everyone to answer and one of them is like what does that feel like for you. One of the things we found is that it really evolves over time for most of the kids. 13:51 - In elementary school a lot of our bloggers felt like they were strong students or they received a lot of praise for their ability to do certain academic things. Some of them felt like it was just normal because when they're that age they just don't think that much about how they're fitting in in the context of other kids. But then several started to mention as the time went by how misunderstood they felt - a lot of teachers not understanding why they were behaving a certain way or why they could do some things really easily and not other things really easily or maybe their family misunderstood them in their behavior. 14:30 - In the middle grade years and early high school they started to feel more frustrated, they started to feel a lot more negative feelings. They may be more paralyzed by the workload, some of them started to feel really hopeless or their anxiety spiked. They would start to think they were stupid because they couldn't do things maybe as well as they had in the past or they weren't able to keep up with the workload that was happening. Sometimes they would get referred for special education services and they would just feel embarrassed about tapping into those resources. 15:05 - As they move through the late high school years and some of them into college you actually see many of the bloggers coming to understand their unique set of strengths and needs, learning how to advocate for themselves, really selecting and designing situations that support them in their personal development and growth and having more confidence to speak up for themselves and others. So there's this sense that they have become more empowered, more hopeful, more fully integrated as whole people. 15:35 - One thing we did really note is that the boys - we had three boys and three girls - and the boys were diagnosed earlier. Almost all three of the girls, and this is not uncommon, were not diagnosed with a learning difference until they were in high school or later. Really getting the diagnosis seemed to help the three female bloggers to understand themselves better and understand the experiences that they had had. That's something we'll actually be presenting about on the May 15th session - we will be having a whole session on neurodiversity through the female lens if that's something that is interesting to anyone who's here today. 16:25 - I have a quote on this topic from Lucy: "Just knowing that I was autistic gave me the confidence to make decisions based on what was best for me rather than what seemed normal." Serena, I don't know if you want to weigh in on this particular theme about how your experience evolved over time? Serena on Diagnosis 16:50 - Yeah, so definitely for me personally diagnosis was the aha moment that I never seemed to actually achieve in school. Neurodiversity wasn't the negative sentence that the school administration or my parents perceived it as when first presented with the concept. It wasn't actually a barrier - it's honestly just opened up so many doors to me both academically and personally. That's really what has shaped my identity and perspective going forward. So I definitely agree a lot with what Lucy said in the quote. Theme 2: What It Takes to Be the Best Teacher 17:26 - The second theme is around what it takes to be the best teacher for one of our twice exceptional learners. We saw a lot of common themes across the blog post about what really made a teacher one of the best teachers. The characteristics that came up were that they were very flexible and kind, understanding, respectful, non-threatening, non-judgmental and supportive. 17:52 - These things seem like they would be great characteristics for any child with their teacher, but I think they really mean a lot to twice exceptional kids especially who are facing more bumps in the road. Kids who are neurotypical might be able to slide by with a teacher who doesn't do some of these things, but for a twice exceptional kid these things are just really that much more important. Actually these things are supported by research about creating environments for 2e and neurodivergent learners. It was amazing really to see how well the bloggers' characteristics list lined up with what the research says these kids really need. 18:31 - Some of the actions that these best teachers took were to modify or shorten homework - so like maybe you don't need to do 20 of the same math problems, maybe doing five and showing you know how to do those five is enough. Extending deadlines - so you know not taking off points if you can't make a specific deadline but having a deadline maybe at the end of the quarter where you have a chance to get everything caught up. They really appreciated when the assignments are very clear with clear instructions. They want a teacher who will answer questions and who will talk with the students. 19:11 - Some of the other ones are really about preventing ridicule. A lot of these kids talk not just about being bullied by other kids but by other adults in the schools - just rude and unencouraging comments from other teachers or other staff. So the best teachers really help to navigate some of that and then they also celebrate their achievements. You know so when the child does something well they really notice that and really support the child and appreciating that. 19:43 - It's always best when these things are implemented for everyone in the classroom. Most 2e and neurodivergent kids don't really want special treatment, they don't necessarily want to have to have accommodation. So it's great if we can just create learning environments that build many of these things in. 19:59 - The other thing that really came up from at least two of our bloggers, Serena and Noah, is the power of having a teacher who is neurodivergent themselves. Having especially, I think in both cases of both Serena and Noah, they had teachers who had ADHD who really helped them to understand themselves and able to give much more clear instructions and make a connection with them. Help Proactively 20:28 - One of the parts of this theme is that you have to be able to help proactively. This is a key thing that all the bloggers really ask for in terms of what makes the teacher really the best teacher. The reason students say this is because a lot of them don't reach up for help, especially in those middle school and early high school years, because they are embarrassed sometimes about the struggles they're having or they feel like in the context that they're in it's not acceptable to need help or they might feel ashamed that they need it or they're just afraid what will happen. 21:05 - I think we need to keep this in mind that it's not easy for students always to reach up for help and so we need to be encouraging teachers to reach out to these kinds of students. I think Ava said this so nicely when she said: "My teachers didn't make me feel like the letters on my transcript defined my self-worth. They reached out their caring hands and offered an amount of help I had never experienced before." That was her reflection on her middle college experience - that willingness of the teachers to reach out to her made such a difference. Because when she was at Gunn High School before she did middle college she was put into one of the special ed programs and she never felt comfortable there, and then she got to move to an environment where the teachers did much more reaching out and making sure that she was doing well. Serena on Supportive Teachers 22:04 - One thing I also noticed was some of my most supportive teachers in the past - they didn't actively try to make fun of students - they were all eccentric in their own way which they really embraced. So it didn't make me feel like a huge outlier or anything like that. As for neurodivergent teachers, I went to Interlochen this past summer and I had a trumpet teacher who just literally just showed me what to do instead of giving me steps telling me what to do where I would get confused within the steps. 22:37 - For example, he told me to play with an open throat which I didn't really understand because previous teachers I would always assume it was like opening a door with a doorknob or something and then wondering like I don't have a doorknob in my throat, how do I open it. So instead he demonstrated the actions that would allow me to achieve the same effect which worked a lot better than just giving me a lot of random steps. Yeah, he was also neurodivergent so he basically understood the way that I would receive the information better and that was just what really helped to change everything for that summer at least. 23:16 - I loved what you said about that in your blog post about the scream. It was like it was just the right thing for him to say to you, not just trying to explain the steps but to be like this is what it should feel like. Yeah, like the feeling and telling you what to do is completely different. I will perceive it completely differently even though it will always end up in the same result, but I perceive it differently so one way will not always end up in the other result. 23:47 - I mentioned earlier that I went to a presentation yesterday from the Schwab Learning Center at Stanford and they had this young woman who was dyslexic and she also commented on how valuable it was to her when she worked with or had a teacher who also was dyslexic because it just gives you that opportunity to relate to one another in a different way. Theme 3: Advice for Teachers 24:08 - There was also then a set of advice for teachers. We asked our bloggers what advice would they have for teachers and also what one thing could a teacher do that would really help. We've talked about this one a little bit which is that listening to students - really ask them as individuals what they need help with and how to remove the barriers to learning. 24:38 - One of the things I love that Serena said, I'll quote you Serena: "It's incredibly important to both discuss our disabilities and how it actually affects us, not just how you think it does. I love this - ADHD goes so much beyond can't sit, can't do work, must go zoom zoom. I hate to break it to you but that's not ADHD, that's my cat." 25:01 - I think that's just so important both as parents and teachers to really listen to these kids when they're talking to us about what they're going through and what their experience of their learning difference is. Because the experience of the learning difference is actually different for each person. Once you understand and are listening more to the child then you can understand what the barriers are and start removing those as much as possible. And also teaching the child how to remove the barriers as well, starting to teach them self-advocacy skills so that they can start thinking about what is in their way and how can they create workarounds or solutions for those problems. Acknowledge Strengths and Struggles 25:43 - Another thing that you really need to do is acknowledge both that the child has strengths and struggles. So you don't want to invalidate the struggles that they have and you need to understand that even the brightest students can have a learning difference. Those accommodations that they need are actually essential. The accommodations won't necessarily solve all of their challenges but they're really important. 26:14 - Serena also went on to say: "We're not trying to intentionally act out or underperform. Please never jump to conclusions or purposely invalidate our struggles." Mike wanted to note about his dysgraphia that just because he had an accommodation that allowed him to type rather than handwrite assignments, it's not like all of the other problems were magically fixed. Things just aren't designed for me. So you really have to understand that there are those strengths and those struggles and support whatever those accommodations are that the child needs. Theme 4: Offer Choice and Creative Freedom 27:00 - The next one is about providing choice and creative freedom. I think this one is really key and possibly one of the most important things that we can do is to have some flexibility and give some choice. This is because it really helps kids explore their interests. They need to have more choice in their projects and they need to be able to demonstrate what they know beyond just a standard essay or a test. 27:30 - Often we aren't differentiating the exit points for students to show what they know and we really should be. We should be giving kids more opportunities to explore what they're good at and then show that they've mastered something through a strength. Ava said: "I learned so much more when I was allowed to do a project I was motivated to complete. It's challenging and sometimes impossible to accommodate every student's needs but making it clear that you're there to help come up with ways for students to feel confident in the material is crucial." I think you also see more motivation and more self-directed learning when we give more choice and creative freedom. Clear Instructions 28:08 - We did talk about this a little bit earlier which is about providing those step-by-step and clear instructions. This is so important because a lot of times the kids also need to see sample work and sample product so they know what they're aiming for. Mike really noted this when he said: "The best teachers are the ones who communicate clearly and make sure I understand what I need to be doing." In the end that's going to help everyone in the class if everyone knows what they're aiming for. 28:40 - We talked about this earlier too, just the importance of checking in. Some of the kids who have ADHD or autism or anxiety may not be tracking all of the instructions that are given in class verbally as well as some of the other kids. So it's just important to check in and make sure that they understand what the expectations are. Focus on Mastery 29:07 - We've touched on this a little bit but we really want to focus on student mastery. What is our goal, what do we want kids to know and be able to do, and where are we putting in these false barriers that are just hoops they have to jump through. You really want to adopt policies that use more of a standards-based grading approach that really reflect the mastery of learning objectives instead of just focusing on the completion of homework assignments. 29:31 - You could do things like ask to have homework excused when mastery has been demonstrated through an assessment or a final project of some sort. Ask for shortened assignments, ask if a teacher could accept late homework without penalty whenever possible. Chris reflected on this that sometimes though when they're given more time, even more days to turn in assignments doesn't help because they're perpetually behind which inhibits learning content. So he requested: "If I've scored well on an exam but I'm behind on assignments, allow the flexibility to let me move on." 30:08 - I think that's something we need to work on too - why do we have these deadlines, when do kids need to learn about deadlines. We all have to deal with deadlines sometimes, so how do we build in the ability to learn about deadlines without having so many deadlines that all we end up feeling is that we're on a treadmill of being behind. Because I think we all know in real life there are a lot of times when you can negotiate deadlines or you get into a project, you realize it's going to take longer, you go back and you extend whatever that's going to take. There are times when you have to do things on time, so how do we introduce that kind of flexibility into the school environment as well. Advocate for Students 30:40 - The last key tip they have was really asking teachers please to advocate for them. This is also for parents too - if you suspect that your child has an undiagnosed learning disability or some kind of mental wellness challenge, please advocate on their behalf for an evaluation. This is even for high schoolers because so often learning differences and learning needs of twice exceptional learners, especially for girls, are not caught early enough in their school life. 31:11 - We can think we've got to high school, oh there can't be learning differences, but a lot of times some of the things that have been challenging through the years are due to the learning difference and the child has been able to mask it well enough. Then the schoolwork demands, the social demands, the extracurricular demands of high school kind of create a wall and a new barrier that wasn't there before. So it's really important to keep your eye out for this and to advocate if your child needs an evaluation. Also for teachers to keep their eye out because sometimes it's the parents who are presenting the barrier to getting the evaluation and sometimes we need the teachers to be the advocate on behalf of their students. Serena on Advocating 32:00 - That pretty much captured all I would have wanted to say but I think one of the parts I really wanted to emphasize was advocating for learners. Because sometimes it's such an unfamiliar concept when you first present it to parents that if you don't explain it well enough they're not going to know what they're getting into. Then they won't want to go into that because of stigma or just general unfamiliarity with that subject. It's really important to just break it down and then make sure that both parties know that it's not anything negative, it's just something that will make your life a lot easier instead of something that is a barrier, a limitation or something that makes you any less than. 32:43 - Yeah, because I think what you all found too is sometimes it's what gives you your special capabilities as well and your special viewpoints and empathy in life. Theme 5: Equity 32:58 - Another key theme that really came up across the blog post is around equity. Several of our bloggers really emphasized a call to action around equity. Of the six contributors to our series, three graduated from private high schools, one graduated from our dual enrollment program, one from a charter school, and sadly one of our bloggers hasn't graduated. 33:27 - I think what they all kind of noted is that not everyone can afford a private school. Not everyone lives in an area where there is a school that's going to support learning differences or 2e students. There may be kids who live in a community that doesn't offer a better fit charter or dual enrollment program, or your parents may not have the resources, either time or financial or English language skills to advocate year after year after year on your behalf. 34:00 - The teens recognize this and really Noah summed this up best saying: "We really need more awareness on who and what a 2e student is as too many people are living their lives believing that they are just dumb or don't have what it takes. These people need help not to correct their problems but to overcome them." 34:20 - Ava really was talking about inequity - if we're not helping these kids then what are we missing. We're missing a lot in our society and our world because 2e and neurodivergent learners offer insane amounts of creativity, the ability to see things in a way that regular people can't, empathy, determination, enough knowledge to fill a library and layer after layer of unseen talent. It gives me chills to think that these are the things that the teens in our blog series are thinking about. Neurodiversity Platform 34:54 - I think it leads really well into letting Serena talk a little bit about the work she's doing. Because what we're seeing is that as these kids become older, as they enter their late teen years and they start to feel more empowered around their own experiences, they really want to be making a difference in the world. Serena, did you want to talk a little bit about neurodiversity? 35:19 - Yeah, so Neurodiversity is a two-part plan on the word neurodiversity. Neuro-diver is basically someone who delves deep into their brain as a neurodivergent individual would, and city is a supportive community of diverse individuals. I like puns so I made that the name. It's an international resource and community platform for neurodivergent students that's also run by neurodivergent students because I didn't see a lot of those around. 35:47 - It features support and community chat rooms, neurodivergent peer and adult mentorships, creativity showcases, education groups for allies and resource and guide sheets. There's also an Instagram page in which I recount personal experiences and share advice through a variety of cat Photoshop stickers and also words. Basically I just wanted to share the resources I wish I had access to when seeking a diagnosis and also create a community around that to mitigate the stigma and also access for other students who may also be seeking a diagnosis but don't know where to start. 36:22 - If any of you are interested in checking out or you think your child will be interested in joining our student community or having a mentorship, the website is www.neardiver.city.org  and there's a considerable amount of cats and cat Photoshops on the website to welcome you too if you're interested in that sort of thing. But yeah, would love to welcome you. There are always a few quotes that stand out from everybody's blog post but I've already said this one - "that's not ADHD that's my cat" - I love that. I love all your cat Photoshopping. She's in the back right now actually staring at a dove outside. Q&A Session Begins 37:04 - Well now we'd like to open this up for question and answer. For the question and answer I'm actually going to stop sharing so we can all see each other. If you don't mind putting your question in the chat, if you have any questions for me about the blog series or about any of the themes that we've covered, if you have any questions for Serena please feel free to weigh in. I actually have a couple of questions for Serena and I'm going to get us kicked off. What Resonated Most 37:41 - Serena, now that you've seen how the themes played out across the bloggers, what resonates most for you? I think the "strong student" part in elementary school and then also having everything crash down in middle school - that resonated most with me because that's the exact same situation that I went through. I think middle school and high school is the age where your former comfort compensating methods stop working as well and then everything just kind of catches up to you. You're not sure what to do with it but we don't always want to open up because we're afraid of punishment or any other negative consequences that admitting that you're struggling will entail rather than just saying "oh hey you're struggling with this, why don't we get an evaluation." 38:15 - Yeah, we're just afraid of what will happen if we do in fact reach out for help. And then also teachers who make it a conducive space for asking questions in class versus teachers who crack down on you for asking questions because it seems like you weren't paying attention - that also makes a world of a difference. Because for the former then we would be more inclined to ask questions rather than just spending all our time on figuring everything out ourselves and then still not figuring it out, which is definitely something I have had a lot of experience with. 38:43 - Another thing that really resonated with me was just the benefits that diagnosis allows as well as the self-discovery and realization that comes with it and how important it is to just know. And then how much of a difference access to support can be, be that from teachers or parents. All the themes were definitely really relatable but those were just a few of the ones that stuck out most. 39:06 - Yeah, I mean I'm curious, this is off the top of my head, but were there any that you were like "nah that's not me"? I thought most of them were pretty relevant other than the identity part which I feel like I completely identified with it because it's shaped so much of what I used to not know and what I know now. So I think that was the only part that did not resonate but to each their own of course. 39:35 - It was just interesting because you know Mike was only 14, coming out of middle school when we wrote that blog post and just in a different place developmentally. Oh definitely, yeah in middle school I would be totally afraid of that also. What the School Sees 39:54 - Is there anything that's important to you personally that didn't come up in the presentation? I think the things that the school sees is just the surface level of everything else that's going on. For example, this was mentioned in the presentation but if students are acting out or not performing well there's more to the story than just laziness or disrespect or whatnot. I've also had schools that framed diagnosis as a burden so that also made it very hard to get one. So I was diagnosed in high school and then I did not have a smooth experience for attaining that diagnosis because when I tried to reach out for help I was being overachieving and then just told to drop my hardest courses to compensate instead. 40:31 - But in middle school I was pushed for a diagnosis because all my symptoms lined up with the typical Caucasian male hyperactivity cat zooming type. But in high school I realized that's probably not what I should be doing, so that's when the masking starts coming up and that's what made diagnosis a lot harder because I finally stopped aligning with that presentation. But then I also realized that okay I kind of need help and then that not aligning with that presentation barred me from receiving that. So that was pretty important to me but yeah, I kind of wanted to go into a little bit more depth about that. The Label 41:09 - I have a few more questions here but Jane asked a question, do you mind if I throw in one that is not from our list from before? Jane is wondering how do you overcome the "I am normal" kind of feeling and why do I need to get a label to get assistance? 41:33 - Okay, so that was something I definitely struggled with in middle school and that was also a big part of why the evaluation did not happen in kindergarten or middle school. I would say it just takes a lot of time. After a certain point you have to accept that okay I'm trying my hardest but there's something that's limiting me in a sense. But not limiting because I'm dumb or any less than or something, but because I am capable of doing it but I don't know how to do it. That "I don't know how" is something that can be solved by tutoring or prep classes or extra book studying and stuff - there's a deeper story to that. 42:10 - For the other part of the question, why do I need a label to get assistance? Well I wouldn't necessarily call it a label because without that label, without your different condition, I was given so many other labels - just disrespectful, not caring, or dumb, or anything pretty callous like that. I think that label is something that you will come to define yourself and no one else can define that for you. I think that's really important when you're trying to overcome that stage of "hey I don't really want to be identified as that." 42:47 - That label is just something that will allow you to achieve so much more. When you finally get the support you need you'll realize that hey, not everything has to be so hard or I don't have to spend 19 hours on my homework and sleep two hours to just get a simple understanding. But I know the label part is definitely a big fear for a lot of parents and students, especially at younger ages. When you get older I think people just stop caring because we're just too tired. But definitely the label is something that you define for yourself, it's what you make of it. 43:23 - I'll just say try to pursue what you enjoy the most and then that will also make you kind of forget about the negative connotations of the label if any. Because when you're pursuing what you truly enjoy you'll find that doesn't hold you back at all. So yeah, I hope that was helpful in some way. Double-Edged Sword of Labels 43:47 - That's awesome and I think one of the things that came up again in this session I attended is there's a double-edged sword to labels. Because labels can be stigmatizing in some environments and kids can feel marginalized or people make like you said these assumptions about what ADHD means without diving deep into what it means for Serena - what does it mean for Serena to have ADHD. Because people make these assumptions, but labels are in our educational system as it stands right now the path to get services and accommodations. So it's a double-edged sword and it's tricky in that way. 44:25 - I thought it was interesting this dyslexic woman I heard speak - she did not use her label a lot. What she did was she knew she was dyslexic and then she used it as a way to understand herself and what her needs are so that she could talk about what her learning needs were. So that as an adult she says she rarely tells anybody she's dyslexic but she knows how to talk about what she needs to be successful in a group or what she needs to be successful in a certain environment or what tools she should bring with her to be more successful at a meeting. 44:55 - I think the label can help the individual to understand their needs better and then we just have to work on focusing on kids' strengths so that we can take away some of that stigma that comes with the label that we all wish did not come with the label. 45:09 - Yeah, I think going off of that, you don't have to disclose to anyone if you're not comfortable with it. But I think it's really important to just know what you have to work with and then also understand how you work with things. Yeah, for me the label is something that will prevent other people from getting really mad at me for example. Students of Color 45:34 - I noticed that Stacy then asked how we as parents encourage all students to not worry about the label and I think this is very tricky as a parent. But there's a lot around what we can do in terms of emphasizing the strengths that come with your child's unique neurodivergent makeup and a lot that we need to do to really focus on their strengths. It's that 80-20 rule - they should spend at least 80% of their lives in their strengths area not focused on the disability. 45:57 - I think it depends on the age of your child too Stacy, and so I don't know if you're coming to lunch and learn but we can certainly talk about that more or you can reach out to me separately. I think it depends on if the child receives the label in elementary school, middle school or high school because they're just different developmental stages. It can be harder I think to get the label in middle school or entering middle school - there's so much going on around your identity. So it really does depend a little bit, so be happy to talk Stacy about that with you. 46:41 - Then I noticed Stacy also asked do we feel that we see more students of color in this category. I'm not sure if you mean 2e - I mean I think we do see undoubtedly there's a disproportionate number of kids of color who are given learning disability diagnoses for sure. There's a concept of person-environment fit that I think we really are challenged by in our education system today. Many of our education organizations are not designed for kids who have certain behaviors, certain strengths, certain interests, certain ways of expressing themselves in the world. 47:13 - So then when behaviors become what the adults in their lives don't want, they get labeled with a learning difference and so I think that is definitely a core societal issue that we need to look at. I think there's a lot more that we at REAL want to learn about helping students of color because I think what tends to happen is their behaviors get labeled as a challenge more so than other kids. So sometimes they're inappropriately diagnosed or they are just really misunderstood in so many ways and their strengths do not get emphasized in school like they should be. Social Friendship Impact 48:03 - Somebody else wanted to know how that ADHD diagnosis impacted your social friendship side if at all and how you've dealt with that. Honestly I feel like it's changed throughout middle school and high school as things do. Before middle school it was more like I would be seeking attention and then the validation that I did not receive in classes I would achieve from friends. Because I mean with ADHD it comes with spontaneity and also humor. 48:32 - But I think now it becomes a lot easier for me to connect with other people and make friends because there's no set topic that we have to talk about. I'll literally just talk with you about whatever and if we can keep a conversation going then that's the vibe and then that's how the friendship continues. I think not having to limit yourself to a set formula to making friends or anything - that has really helped me with the friendship area. But that's also something that you have to figure out - it's not something that comes naturally but it also doesn't because you're not sure whether something is too much or if you'll scare them away or anything. But most of the time I think people are nice and yeah, that's a really scattered answer. Orchestra and Friendships 49:27 - Do you think it's helped Serena friendship-wise that you do have a real strength in music and you've been able to join different bands and orchestras and participate in music programs in terms of finding people who have like interests or thinking or will understand you better? Oh yes, yes that has definitely - orchestra, so I'm part of the Golden State Orchestra and that's where a lot of my closest friends I have found there. It's just the things that make the friendship so special is the little spontaneous things and I think that I contribute to a lot of the spontaneous things that come up which makes our connection really a lot stronger. 50:10 - I think it's just such a good real world example of how when we really help twice exceptional kids figure out the strength that they have and really their interest and really go with that passion and find a way to nurture it, then they'll meet other kids who have that common strength or interest area. That's really the basis for a lot of friendship for your whole life. I think that just emphasizes the importance of giving kids room to really focus on their strengths and their interests because it's so important both for your self-esteem but also your social world - that's where you make and find your people. Formal Diagnosis Question 50:56 - A question that came in I think is more for me - is there any formal diagnosis for 2e or is anyone with autism ADHD twice exceptional. I think that's a great question and I'd say one of the things that we at REAL say is I am not going to tell you that your child is twice exceptional or not. We know that the definition of twice exceptional kids are those kids who are very bright, very capable, high ability in some area and also have a learning difference. There is not a formal diagnosis in the DSM-5, it's not a formal thing. 51:29 - I will say our neuropsych for my daughter who is twice exceptional, she did put it in the report like "Katie is a twice exceptional autistic" blah blah blah. So some neuropsychs are very familiar with it and can help you understand it and some aren't as familiar with it. We always just say if the things we're saying resonate for you and your family then great - join us, learn more, be part of our community. 51:59 - There are some communities where they still identify for gifted and talented programs and in that case you might then have a child who qualified for a gifted and talented program and also has a learning difference. A lot of the things that we believe in and are arguing and advocating for around strength-based learning would really be good for everyone. The challenge is that there are a lot of myths and misconceptions around whether you can be a very bright high achieving child and also have a learning difference or be in special education and also have a brightness or a strength in a core area. 52:38 - A lot of people just don't understand that these things can co-exist and so our goal is to really help people break through some of the myths around that. Because even this woman who was in her mid-20s yesterday who has dyslexia and graduated from Stanford didn't feel like she could have both - didn't know that was her own personal experience, she didn't even know that she could have both. So it's important that we recognize this and build awareness around this life experience. Blog Series Availability 53:16 - I see Beth asked are the students still blogging and is this series available. Thank you so much - the series is still available and I'm going to share my screen again and show you one thing while I ask my last question for Serena. Serena's Future Plans 53:45 - Do you mind sharing your hopes, dreams and plans for your own future? Because I'm sure now that everyone's gotten to know you better they want to know what you have in mind. Yeah, so I will be attending Columbia University in the City of New York this fall and I've actually struggled over this decision for a long while because I'm super attached to routine and kind of terrified of leaving everything behind right as I've started to get comfortable with it, just like I did in middle school. 54:04 - But I think with this diagnosis I have now and the support I've gained along the way, I'll be much better equipped to take on something new than I was previously. So at Columbia I'll definitely continue to study my music and neurodiversity advocacy endeavors there. Really not too sure I'll be studying yet but hopefully it'll be something with psychology, music and then maybe branching into some business administration. But yeah, no matter what I will keep working on and expanding Neurodiversity and I know that these passions are what I truly do want to continue for as long as I can. 54:40 - I just think you'll find so many more ways to advocate as you move through your life and through different environments. You have such a strong voice and I hope you bring that everywhere you go. You just have so many powerful things to share and say. Getting Involved 54:59 - Kind of to Beth's point, if you want to get involved with the project we definitely welcome more contributions from teen bloggers. We have a very easy to use template that they just have to answer questions and then we help them shape it into the final version. Or if they're not comfortable writing the responses, especially those kids who are dyslexic or just have dysgraphia, we can interview them and then we can draft the post and they can review it. You can contact me at cali@realpaloalto.org  if you have a child who you think would be interested in participating. Final Advice 55:45 - I had given you a set of questions and we didn't get to all the questions that I wanted to ask you and I don't know if there were any of those that you were dying to answer. I can answer the advice one perhaps. Yeah, so I basically said this presentation is being attended mostly by parents - what one piece of advice would you give them in working with their twice exceptional or neurodivergent children? 56:09 - Yeah, I think what I wanted to say for that was just listen to your child and just try to understand them. I know there's usually a lot of pressure about academics, doing well, getting into a good college - I know because I come from a school district that was like that and a culture that sort of internalizes that as well. So there's a lot of pressure for that but I think oftentimes, especially for neurodivergent learners, when parents see something unfavorable they freak out and try to stop that behavior immediately either by punishment or active discouragement which is not ideal and which is also why I kind of hid my struggles growing up. 56:43 - Basically don't stress too much about the little things and take things one step at a time because neurodivergency is dynamic. Something that you can't do right now doesn't mean you cannot do it later. This sounds like super generic advice but everything will work out in the end and there's no single path to success. Your child will succeed but what works for your typical child won't necessarily have the same effect on your neurodivergent child as it would for a neurotypical or it might not work as well. 57:05 - But it really is just a journey of discovery and most of the time we won't know how to navigate it either. But it would be amazing if we could be just supported in the process of figuring that out. It doesn't matter if you also don't know what we're doing but the support from someone we trust and we know that will want the best for us really just means the world. Closing 57:35 - That's awesome, thank you so much Serena for being here and for sharing your insights. I always learn something new every time I hear you speak or read what you've written or talk to you. Jane has a question about supports you've gotten that are helpful but what I'm gonna do is Serena if you're willing to come to the lunch and learn we'll move that question into the lunch and learn because I'm supposed to wrap this up now and encourage everyone to go to the lunch and learn. You should have the links to the lunch and learn in the email that schedule you received or back at the original website. So thanks everyone for coming, it was great to have you here and hopefully we'll see some of you over at our lunch and learn. Bye!

This worksheet helps you reframe a challenging task and identify a strength-based way your child might approach it differently. Use it to brainstorm alternatives that preserve the goal but make the path more accessible. It may be helpful to refer to EF Vocabulary Cheat Sheet . 1.  What task or situation is currently difficult for your child?  ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________   2.  What specifically is making this task hard? (e.g., organizing, remembering steps, initiating, writing) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________   3.    What are your child’s strengths? (e.g., verbal expression, creativity, problem-solving, visual thinking) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________   4.  What’s one possible way to approach this task using one of those strengths? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________   5.  What tools or supports might help? (e.g., dictation, graphic organizer, visuals, choice of format) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________   6.  How can we encourage independence while still offering the support they need? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________   7.   How will we know if this alternative approach is working? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Use our printable to fill this out for your 2e learner:

If you’re parenting a child who is both wonderfully bright and wired a little differently, you’ve probably seen just how incredible their mind can be and how frustrated they can get when everyday tasks feel harder than they “should” be. Many twice-exceptional (2e) learners have incredible abilities, yet still face real challenges with executive functioning , communication, and day-to-day routines.  The good news is that with the right support, your child can learn the skills that help them navigate school, friendships, and life with confidence. Below are realistic strategies you can try at home to help your 2e learner grow.  Task Initiation: Helping Them Get Started  Starting a task is often the biggest hurdle for kids. You can help by creating a clear, gentle on-ramp. Adults can help by breaking large, overwhelming tasks into very small steps. Whether it’s homework, cleaning, or getting ready for school, break the task into tiny, doable pieces. For example, be very explicit on each step involved in cleaning a room: pick up dirty laundry and put it in the laundry basket, clear off unnecessary items from surfaces like a bookshelf, dust or wipe down surfaces, vacuum the floor, etc. Small steps reduce overwhelm and create momentum.  Another way you can help your children is by having them “externalize” their thinking. Ask your child to talk you through what needs to be done. If this feels hard, look up the directions together, read them, and discuss each step. This turns the task from something floating in their head into something concrete and shared.  Finally, don’t underestimate the power of starting in teeny tiny increments. Have your child or teen set a stopwatch (rather than a countdown timer) and work for just five minutes. The goal is simply to begin. Most kids end up working longer once they get going, but even if they don’t, the small start still counts as success.  Time Management: Making Time More Predictable  Many neurodivergent kids struggle with estimating time, switching tasks, or sensing how long something will take. To help them improve their sense of time, have them keep track of how long certain routines actually take. Time a few common routines: morning prep, math homework, chores. The goal isn’t speed; it’s accuracy. Knowing “this really takes 20 minutes” helps them plan more realistically. A very handy tool in keeping track of the passage of time is the visual timer. A visual timer shows time disappearing, helping kids feel time passing. It also keeps them on task and creates a gentle sense of urgency. Another visual strategy is to use simple blocks on a calendar: homework, break, dinner, reading. This helps kids see the rhythm of the day and understand how much time they truly have. Last but not least, building in buffer time is key. Transitions take energy. Adding small breaks or extra minutes between activities keeps the day smoother and lowers stress.  Self-Advocacy: Teaching Them to Ask for What They Need  For 2e kids, developing self-advocacy skills is one of the most important paths to long-term independence. It also builds confidence, resilience, and the ability to navigate not only school, but also eventually college and the workforce. Talk openly about your kids’ strengths and their challenges. When kids understand how their brain works, it becomes easier to explain what they need. If your child has accommodations, they should know: what their accommodations are, how to request them, and how to make sure they’re happening. Adults can help, but should gradually step back. You can still follow up behind the scenes to ensure support is in place.  A helpful habit that you can help your children start now is to normalize asking for thinking time. Many neurodivergent kids need a few seconds longer to process information. Have them practice phrases at home like: “Can I have a moment to think?” or “I need a little more time before I answer.” This is an extremely valuable self-advocacy skill. In addition to asking for more thinking time, role-playing different scenarios can give children and teenagers the confidence to be prepared for when it actually happens. Examples of scenarios could be: clarifying directions (“I heard first I do this, and then I do this, is that right?”), asking a teacher for help (“I’m a little confused on what this means.”), and deciding roles with their peers for a group project (“I’d prefer to do this role, does that work for everyone?”). If speaking to a teacher is too intimidating, show your child how to write a clear, short email to their teachers. Brainstorm together and even draft it together if necessary. Writing emails to their teachers would also be a great way to practice advocating for their accommodations. Over time, scaffold less and less until they feel comfortable independently writing emails.  An underutilized tool for self-advocacy is teachers’ office hours; schools may have varying names for this: flex period, resource period, student support time, etc. If your child says they know how to sign up, ask them to show you and have them sign up for a time soon with their teacher. It is especially great to go to teachers’ office hours before tests to prepare and ask any last minute questions and after tests to go over any lingering confusion or mistakes. If teachers don’t require advance sign ups, then have your child pick a day they are going to go ahead of time. Regardless, help your student create a simple agenda before they meet with their teacher. Have them list any specific questions or general topics they want explained. This helps them stay focused, reduces anxiety, and teaches a lifelong skill: how to prepare for a meeting. All of this is excellent preparation for college, where office hours are essential, and for future work when meeting with supervisors. You’re Building Skills That Last a Lifetime  Parenting a twice-exceptional child is a mix of joy, creativity, and problem-solving. Every strategy you teach, including task initiation, time management, and especially self-advocacy, sets your child up for a more confident future.  These are the lifelong skills they’ll need in high school, college, and the workplace. You’re helping them build them step by step, with warmth, patience, and guidance. About the Author Mandy Hoff works as a learning specialist with the Schwab Learning Center at CHC. Mandy cares passionately about getting to know every individual person. Helping each person become self-reflective, and therefore self-aware, enhances their ability to learn, as well as serves their future lives. She creates strategies for each individual based on their particular strengths and interests. Previously, Mandy worked in the public school system for over eleven years. Her time there taught her to value collaboration, the impact of families on learners, and the beauty in cognitive diversity.

Twice-exceptional, or 2e , learners display remarkable strengths alongside significant challenges at the same time. For example, a student might excel in math yet struggle with writing, or read well above grade level while having difficulty turning in assignments. This uneven profile of being far ahead in some areas and far behind in others is known as asynchronous development. What does “asynchronous development” mean? Most children develop new skills within a typical age range. For instance, many learn to read around ages 6–7. Some may pick up a skill a little earlier or later, but most fall reasonably close to these developmental expectations. This applies to a wide range of school-related abilities, including math , writing , reading , social skills , and emotional regulation . Asynchronous Development in 2e Students Asynchronous development occurs when a child advances far ahead of age expectations in some areas while developing more slowly in others. A fourth grader, for example, might read at an eighth-grade level yet write at a second-grade level. They may use vocabulary typical of an 18-year-old while demonstrating the emotional regulation of a much younger child. Uneven Growth Explained – Cognitive vs. emotional vs. social development. To further illustrate how asynchronous development can affect academic performance, it’s helpful to look at cognitive, emotional, and social development. Cognitive asynchrony can show up in complex ways for 2e learners. In the example above, this 2e ADHD-autistic learner demonstrates exceptionally high math reasoning skills. They can understand math concepts well beyond their grade level. However, their actual math performance falls within the expected range. Why? Slow processing speed, and potentially other learning differences such as dysgraphia, can make worksheets and tests with many problems exhausting. As a result, their disability can mask their giftedness, and they may not be offered advanced math work they are fully capable of understanding. The reverse can also occur. A child may appear to be reading fluently because they use strong vocabulary and memory skills to guess or decode words. At some point, however, they can’t keep compensating and are diagnosed with stealth dyslexia—their strengths masked their challenges. Social and emotional asynchrony can also significantly impact learning. A child with an advanced grasp of class material may struggle to share their knowledge during group work. They might read at a high level but become dysregulated when their ideas are challenged. Or they may blurt out answers impulsively, leading to peer frustration or teasing. Each of these patterns reflects how uneven development in 2e learners can hide both their strengths and their needs. Examples in 2e Kids – Advanced math skills but struggles with writing; high vocabulary but difficulty self-regulating Asynchronous learners can feel puzzling to educators and parents because they may excel in one area, such as writing with remarkable maturity, while struggling significantly in another, like math. Adults may mistakenly assume the child is being lazy or unmotivated, because it seems unlikely that a student could perform so well in one domain and have such difficulty in another. Yet this contrast is the hallmark of asynchronous development. When a student has an advanced vocabulary and speaks like an adult, it can be easy to forget that their emotional regulation may lag behind their age. A child may be able to describe every major battle of World War II in vivid detail, yet melt down when the daily routine changes unexpectedly. Impact on School & Family Life – Frustration, mismatch between expectations and abilities Because of the mismatch between what adults expect, based on a child’s obvious strengths, and what the child is actually able to produce across different subjects, asynchronous learners are often mislabeled as lazy, unmotivated, or oppositional. Adults may think, “They’re so bright, if they just tried, they could do it.” In reality, these students are often working twice as hard as their neurotypical peers just to make it through the day. As Ross Greene reminds us, “Kids do well if they can.” This gap between expectations and actual abilities can also fuel internal anxiety, perfectionism, and masking. Asynchronous learners may work tirelessly to avoid social criticism or to hide areas where they fear looking “stupid.” Many have complex, highly creative ideas that far exceed what they can currently express in writing or turn into a finished project. That mismatch can spark perfectionistic anxiety, nothing feels good enough because the final product never matches the vision in their head. Perfectionism can also arise when a child has been told their whole life how smart they are. In elementary school, they may have coasted because their strengths compensated for their challenges. But once they reach middle or high school, the workload increases and their compensatory strategies are no longer enough. When the ease and achievement they once relied on begin to slip, their self-concept may crumble. This can lead to significant anxiety, sometimes even debilitating, because their identity has been built around being “the smart kid” rather than being a learner who grows through challenge. Supporting Asynchronous Learners – Practical strategies at home and in school To support asynchronous learners, the first step is recognizing that a child can be years ahead in some areas and years behind in others. It’s essential to understand the specific skill deficits or challenges that may be preventing them from demonstrating their full potential. Some students benefit from executive functioning support to help with organization, deadlines, and project planning. Others may need tutoring or targeted instruction in certain subjects. Students with dyslexia or other learning differences may require structured remediation. Many benefit from reduced homework—such as completing every other problem—especially once mastery is demonstrated. Asynchronous learners also thrive when they can work in their areas of strength and interest and when they have flexibility in how they demonstrate what they know. Our community’s crowd-sourced accommodations  list highlights the wide range of supports these learners may need. Perhaps the most powerful support for asynchronous learners is a strengths-based approach. When the child who knows every battle in WWII gets to enter a history bee, volunteer at a local museum, or attend a summer archaeology program, they build confidence and a healthier self-concept. While it’s important to address challenges, giving students more opportunities to engage deeply in their strengths provides the self-esteem, energy, and resilience they need to work through their weaker areas and show their full potential.

A Look Back at the Resources That Helped Our Community Thrive As we wrap up 2025, I want to take a moment to reflect on the stories, guides, and resources that have supported our community this year. These articles were bookmarked by families, shared by educators, and revisited by caregivers time and again. Together, they reveal what our community values most: clarity, connection, and strengths-based support for twice-exceptional learners. Below is a roundup of the top 10 articles that resonated most with families, educators, clinicians, and caregivers across the Bay Area and beyond. Bay Area 2e School Options Learn about local school options that both understand and support neurodivergent and twice-exceptional students. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/reel-2e-school-options . 8 Strength-Based Activities to Kick Off the School Year These practical, easy-to-use activities help students start the year grounded in their strengths. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/8-strength-based-activities-to-kick-off-the-school-year . Summer Camp Roundup This curated list features camps that truly understand neurodivergent kids. These programs focus on strengths, creativity, and hands-on learning. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/2e-summer-camp-roundup . Bay Area 2e Support Directory Our most comprehensive directory yet! It’s filled with community-recommended psychologists, OTs, SLPs, executive function coaches, and more. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/parents/parent-resource-lists . A Parent’s Guide to IEPs for Twice-Exceptional Students: California – Bay Area Edition This practical, parent-friendly roadmap helps you navigate IEPs with confidence and clarity. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/a-parent-s-guide-to-ieps-for-twice-exceptional-students-california-bay-area-edition . Intro to 2e: Fact Sheet & Checklist A simple, accessible resource for families beginning their twice-exceptionality journey. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/intro-to-2e-one-pager . The Down Low on School Accommodations (…or How to Keep Your Sanity When Advocating for Your 2e Child) This honest and relatable post helps families navigate advocacy without burning out. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/the-down-low-on-school-accommodations-or-how-to-keep-your-sanity-when-advocating-for-your-2e-child . REEL Spotlight Series: Learning About 2e & Emotional Regulation Part of our Spotlight Series, this article features expert insights into how emotional regulation intersects with 2e profiles. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/reel-spotlight-series-learning-about-2e-emotional-regulation-pt-1-of-4-understanding-2e-and-sel . The DEAR REEL Model: Classroom Strategies for Twice-Exceptional Student Success A favorite among educators, this strengths-based, neurodiversity-affirming framework is brought to life through practical classroom strategies. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/the-dear-reel-model-classroom-strategies-for-twice-exceptional-student-success . Behind the Mask: Understanding Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Masking in 2e Kids This powerful article explores the emotional experiences many 2e students keep hidden. Read it at: https://www.reel2e.org/post/behind-the-mask-understanding-anxiety-perfectionism-and-masking-in-2e-kids . Celebrating Our Community's Strengths Thank you for being part of a community that celebrates neurodiversity! Together, we believe in what’s possible when we lead with strengths. I look forward to bringing you even more practical tools, inspiring stories, and research-backed insights in 2026. Until then, I hope these top articles continue to guide, empower, and remind you that you’re not alone on this journey. Looking Ahead As we step into the new year, let’s embrace the opportunities ahead! We’ll continue to focus on providing valuable resources tailored to the unique needs of twice-exceptional learners. Together, we can create an environment where every child thrives! Join Us! Stay connected with our community. Share your experiences, insights, and stories. Your voice matters, and together we can make a difference! I am excited about what lies ahead and can’t wait to see how we can support each other in nurturing the incredible potential of twice-exceptional children!

The 2025 Silicon Valley State of Neurodiversity: Educator Pulse Check provides a clear view into how Silicon Valley educators understand and support neurodivergent and twice-exceptional (2e) students. This report spotlights successes, identifies gaps, and outlines what’s needed next. Download your copy to explore the current landscape and see how REEL can help drive change! Click here to download your copy today! Understanding Neurodiversity in Education "Many times they are very focused on their passions and know who they are...many times better than students who are not living with neurodivergence. We can be open to giving them a safe space to shine." - Site-Based Administrator Every classroom includes neurodivergent and twice-exceptional (2e) students. These students possess remarkable strengths and complex learning needs. However, most educators lack the tools, language, or resources they need to fully support them. This is a crucial issue that we must address together! Why This Report Matters The 2025 State of Neurodiversity: Educator Pulse Check offers an inside look at how Silicon Valley educators understand and support neurodivergent and twice-exceptional (2e) students. It highlights what’s working, where gaps remain, and what’s needed next. Drawing on insights from educators across San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties, this report reveals: The Growing Acceptance of Neurodiversity Understanding neurodiversity is essential for fostering an inclusive environment. Acceptance leads to better support for all students. The 2e Awareness Gap A staggering 90% of educators report that they work with 2e learners. Yet, only 21% feel confident identifying them. This gap needs urgent attention! The Correlation Between Knowledge and Support Access to resources and professional development strongly correlates with educator confidence and “know-how.” When educators feel equipped, they can provide better support. The Neurodiversity Professional Development Educators Want Most in 2025 Educators have specific preferences for professional development formats. Understanding these preferences can help tailor training programs. The Importance of Collaboration Engaging students, families, and colleagues as allies in learning is vital. Collaboration enhances the educational experience for everyone involved. The Path Forward As we move forward, it’s essential to focus on the areas where progress is being made while also addressing the urgent gaps that remain. Educators can work together to close these gaps and create a more inclusive environment for all students. Strategies for Supporting 2e Students Create Safe Spaces Establish environments where students feel comfortable expressing themselves. This encourages them to share their passions and strengths. Provide Targeted Resources Equip educators with the necessary tools to identify and support 2e learners effectively. This includes training, materials, and access to expert advice. Encourage Open Communication Foster a culture of dialogue among educators, students, and families. Open communication leads to better understanding and collaboration. Promote Professional Development Invest in ongoing training for educators. This ensures they stay informed about the latest strategies and best practices for supporting neurodivergent students. Celebrate Diversity Recognize and celebrate the unique strengths of neurodivergent and 2e students. This helps to build a positive school culture that values diversity. Conclusion The 2025 Silicon Valley State of Neurodiversity: Educator Pulse Check is a vital resource for understanding the current landscape of neurodiversity in education. By focusing on collaboration, professional development, and effective strategies, we can create a supportive environment for twice-exceptional students. Together, we can make a difference! Click here to download your copy today!

Welcome to the first in a series of educator case studies, where we hear from school leaders about what they’re doing to support neurodivergent and 2e learners in their schools. We’ll hear practical tips and advice from both public and private schools about what is working for their communities. The first article is on flexibility, belonging and UDL from Victoria Trevor, Head of School at Athena Academy and member of REEL's Educator Advisory Group . If there is one thing that stands out when teaching twice exceptional students, it is this simple truth: flexibility is not a bonus, it is a necessity. 2e learners bring remarkable creativity, curiosity and insight into the classroom. They arrive with unique learning profiles that require us to look beyond a single pathway and instead design learning that honors the way they think. At any school, flexibility is an act of respect. It says to our students, we see how you learn, and we will meet you there. Why flexibility matters for 2e learners Twice exceptional students often have a combination of significant strengths alongside areas that demand thoughtful support. A child may create a brilliant narrative in their head but find it exhausting to put pencil to paper. Another may thrive in abstract reasoning yet struggle with organization or sensory demands. When we make room for flexible ways for students to learn and show understanding, we remove the barriers that can so easily chip away at confidence. Instead of students trying to fit the system, the system shifts to fit the student. This is where Universal Design for Learning plays a key role. UDL as a foundation for Confidence and Independence Universal Design for Learning invites all educators to design learning from the outset so that students can access it in a way that matches their strengths. It offers multiple ways to engage, multiple ways to represent information, and multiple ways to show understanding. In practice, this means: Offering visual, auditory and hands on entry points to new learning Prioritizing choice so students feel ownership and agency Providing scaffolds that support skills without limiting potential Allowing alternative ways to demonstrate understanding and assessment  Creating predictable routines that support working memory and self regulation Encouraging students to tap into their strengths when problem solving When UDL is done purposefully, it builds genuine confidence. Students start to trust that they can grow because they are given the tools, support, and space to do so. Case Study: UDL at Athena Flexibility is woven into daily life at Athena. It is not an accommodation. It is simply the way we teach. A few examples from around campus: Project Based Learning that invites multiple entry points Whether students are building tiny homes, designing flower markets or launching food trucks, every project is crafted so learners can show their thinking through building, drawing, writing, coding or presenting. For the food truck project, students were guided by the driving question: How can we design a tiny home that empowers and inspires others to live their lives with confidence? Engaging academics By making sure our approaches integrate best practices and sound pedagogy, our teachers design lessons that focus on purposeful and meaningful learning objectives. This allows our students to feel continuously and appropriately challenged in our multi-grade and adaptive classrooms. Students use conversation, questioning and hands-on modelling to deepen understanding. They are not told what to think. They explore how ideas work. SEL Responsive Classroom, Restorative Justice and Conscious Discipline routines taught through intentional scaffolded support predictable, calm days. Morning Meetings, shared agreements and explicit teaching of social and emotional skills ensure students feel safe, seen and ready to learn. Individual goals that honor strengths Teachers work closely across subjects, looking for patterns and adjusting instruction to meet students where they are. Choice in showing understanding A concept can be explained through a model, a conversation, a labelled diagram, a short video or a written paragraph. Students choose what works for them. Flexible seating and sensory supports Comfy seating, standing at a desk, working on the floor, quiet corners, outdoor learning spaces and easy to access fidget tools give students control over what helps them regulate and focus.Regular brain breaks throughout the day also play an important role, and give students the chance to reset, move, and return to learning with renewed focus. The difference flexibility makes When students feel understood and respected as learners, something powerful happens. They step forward. They take risks. They begin to see themselves as capable and creative problem solvers. Confidence grows. That, more than anything else, is what sets them up for success both now and in the years ahead. VICTORIA TREVOR, Head of School, Athena Academy Ms. Victoria Trevor brings over two decades of leadership experience in education to her role at Athena Academy. Before joining Athena, she served as the Head of Lower School at Episcopal Day School in San Mateo and has a strong background in both teaching and administration. With degrees in geography and education, Ms. Victoria has taught students across a wide range of age groups in both England and the United States, enriching every community she has been a part of. Deeply committed to empowering neurodiverse learners, Ms. Victoria is especially passionate about dyslexia education and creating learning environments that build confidence through hands-on, project-based learning. Her approach is grounded in the belief that when students engage in meaningful, real-world experiences, their strengths can truly shine. Outside of school, Ms. Victoria enjoys cinema, travel, dining out, swimming, and long walks. She also practices yoga and is a passionate Liverpool Football Club supporter, but her favorite role is being a devoted mother.

Listen into this discussion about strength-based learning with Dr. Melanie Hayes, founder of Big Minds School for 2e students in Pinole, CA. When kids are far from the bell curve in both directions, parents and educators tend to focus on shoring up weaknesses at the expense of bolstering strengths. However, strengths are where 2e kids build energy to face their challenges, boost their self-esteem, and their likely future careers will lie. Focusing on strengths should be a cornerstone of any 2e student’s educational plan. Melanie shared the strength-based methods of Big Minds Unschool, as well as how strength-based learning can be incorporated into any learning environment. What can parents do to bolster strengths at home and advocate for them in the classroom? How can we use strength-based learning to increase student motivation and tackle challenge areas? How does focusing on strengths help heal school trauma? See the transcript here: Callie Turk: Got it. Okay, so hi everyone! I want to welcome you to our fireside chat tonight with Dr. Melanie Hayes. I'm Callie Turk, and I, along with Yael Valek—a co-founder of the group REEL, which stands for Resilience and Engagement for Every Learner—we started several years ago as a small group of parents that felt like our kids needed more engagement in school and weren't being given enough opportunities to develop resilience. And over time, we really learned that most of our kids were actually twice-exceptional. And I imagine most of you know what twice-exceptional is, but just in case, in shorthand version, it—you know, these are kids who are very bright or very creative but also have learning differences such as autism, ADHD, dyslexia, OCD, anxiety. And that makes them very interesting and complex learners. And we have a lot of different events for parents. We also work with our local school district. We're doing everything we can to help build bridges between parents and teachers of twice-exceptional kids so that they can be more successful in the school environment. So we are just so pleased that you've joined us tonight, and I am going to turn this over to Yael, who's going to introduce our speaker. So, Dr. Melanie Hayes is the founder and executive director of Big Minds Unschool. She holds a doctorate in educational leadership with a focus on twice-exceptionality, a Master of Arts in gifted education, a Master of Arts in marriage and family therapy, a California teaching credential, and is currently working toward the LMFT/LPCC licensure in California. So she doesn't do that much. Melanie has 20 years' experience teaching, mentoring, coaching, and advocating for 2e persons. She won the Innovations for Entrepreneurs National Award for her work using adaptive technology for twice-exceptional students and the Jefferson Award in recognition of her contributions to the 2e community. She also received SENG's Educator of the Year Award for her groundbreaking work in educating gifted and twice-exceptional children. Melanie is a certified SENG Model Parent Group Facilitator and supports parents to help them develop their parenting skills. She also works with various other professional associations, such as the IECA, where she serves as the affinity group co-chair for talented, gifted, and twice-exceptional. So welcome, Melanie! Thank you so much. No wonder I feel tired now that we put it all out there. I'm like, wow, I've done a lot of stuff. And she also just wrote a book! Melanie Hayes: Yes, I just wrote a book. That was the big push. I finished that in March. So it's being looked at by the editor, so hopefully it'll be out in the next year. It's on being a gifted 2e person who is also on the spectrum, geared specifically towards helping adults learn to be, you know, successful in some of these harder areas. So thank you for that nice introduction. Thank you, Cali and Yael, for inviting me here, and thanks all of you guys for coming to bounce some ideas with me. I think this is a really fun way to meet parents with 2e kids and talk about some of the common issues we all share. My kids are now 20, but I have 2e twins, so I've also walked the walk that you're all walking, and I think that helps too. So Yael and Kelly asked me to talk about strengths-based education and why that's important. So I thought it'd be fun just for a minute to think about a time when you were going to learn something you were really excited about mastering and just think about what that process felt like. Then think about when you learned something that came really easily to you, and you maybe even were surprised how easy it was to learn something that you've mastered. Think about something that was assigned to you, like maybe a work seminar—what that process was like. And then think about a high-stakes, high-pressure learning experience. And I think, you know, we consider all those—those are all valid learning models but very different outcomes. And for 2e kids, I think that retaining and learning information relies on a lot of factors that many people don't take into consideration. And I know you guys at REEL do this work where you help people understand what's going on, but I'm going to go over a couple of quick things just in case there's something maybe that hasn't been talked about before. So two things to consider about learning: To learn, you have to be open and vulnerable, and it's also often a highly social act. So think about this from a 2e perspective. Oftentimes, 2e kids, the social piece has been hard. They may have not had the same positive experiences with socializing and developing pro-social skills, and so that can impact learning. And also, they may have learned over time that they can't be themselves. To be your authentic self, to be that open and vulnerable, you'll get hurt. And so they've learned to mask, to compensate, to not bring their authentic self to the learning environment. I'm sure most of you have heard of Dr. Stephen Porges's work on polyvagal theory—that's the fight, flight, or freeze response. And when you're in fight, flight, or freeze, you're not going to remember much of what you learned because your autonomic nervous system has shut down the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the social engagement, relational piece. And that can't happen unless you're feeling safe. So for a lot of our kids, school is an anxiety-producing experience. They have these daily chronic stressors that can lead to trauma over time. But even if it doesn't lead to trauma, just that not feeling able to be vulnerable or safe can really impact learning and remembering what they learn. And then the other piece I want to bring up that maybe hasn't been talked about so much is the self-efficacy piece. Dr. Albert Bandura did this work in the 1960s—he's kind of the father of self-efficacy—but what he said is that we learn several ways. One of them is through our past successes—things that we've tried, particularly like babies that try things and then learn to walk through trying and failing. We learn through vicarious experiences—so that's watching someone who's like you learn something and master it and end up doing it well. We get positive feedback and social persuasion—so, you know, encouragement, feedback when you do things well. That sort of thing is one of the self-efficacy learning models. And then the last part is: What is your emotional and psychological state? So if you're able to manage anxiety and you can accurately view your abilities and you feel like you're resilient, you're going to be able to work through stuff and develop this positive self-efficacy. And it's a little bit more than like self-esteem or self-image because self-efficacy is: When something is hard, are you able to approach it? If you fail, are you able to evaluate why you failed and look at how to approach it differently? That's positive self-efficacy. Negative self-efficacy is: You're going to avoid the hard things. If you fail, you're going to blame yourself. So that's basically the difference there. And so positive learning experiences happen and build self-efficacy, and negative ones tear it down. So if you're a kid who has not had good positive learning experiences, you're going to have pretty low self-efficacy. And we often wonder why our kids refuse to do hard things, refuse to try stuff, blame themselves when they fail. These are the reasons why. And I think also because they're differently wired, there's the added layer of this masking. Oftentimes, they'll learn how to compensate through their giftedness, so they mask their disability as well. And so people will think, "Gosh, you're just being lazy," or "If you tried harder," or "You're not applying yourself." All those kinds of things come because our kids can be very good at not showing that they're really struggling, and there's a valid reason for their struggling. And then if you've got heightened sensitivities—it could be either sensory processing or maybe you're a highly sensitive person and very empathetic—those experiences are also going to really impact how much you're able to take in, how much you're able to bring to the table as far as your authentic strengths and abilities. And then—let's see—the last thing I want to talk about before we go directly to questions and answers because I feel like that's probably what most of you want is specific answers to your specific questions—but I just want to give you another thing to think about. We all, when our kids were babies and toddlers, we took care of their needs, and because they trusted us, they were able to feel secure, and they pretty bravely went about their learning. You know, they're curious, they're creative in their problem-solving. Babies pretty fearlessly explore and try to figure things out. And then something sort of goes awry when we get into school because their learning approach and their specific way of learning is often not validated. And they're often also told to do things in a specific way that doesn't resonate with them, doesn't inspire them, feels like it's going against the grain for them. And so they often stop being curious and creative because they're being told the way they're doing it is wrong or they need to learn a different way to do it. And I feel like for twice-gifted kids, this is particularly damaging because they do have divergent minds, and their learning patterns are around this big-picture learning, creating a systems way of thinking, bringing their unique strengths to the table. And when those are thwarted by well-meaning teachers, well-meaning educators, our kids feel broken. If they see there's something wrong with them—"Why can't I do this the way the other kids are doing it?"—particularly if they have been told that they're gifted, then they don't believe it. They think that, you know, somebody's convinced them that they have these skills that they don't. And I think if we—you know, babies don't need a curriculum or a lesson plan from the parents. They just go do their thing. And I think if we can think about how babies learn and how our toddlers—and what we want for them—so think about when your children were younger, what you want is you want to allow them the freedom and to be able to focus on this thing they want to learn, whatever they're interested in learning. We, as parents, model all these wonderful things—that you're going to be able to walk and talk and, you know, all these things that we know that they need to learn to do. We provide appropriate help when they need it. We create an enriched environment full of all kinds of cool things that make them want to interact with them. We provide lots of happy interaction with people who care about them and reflect back this positive experience. We ensure they have a safe place to play and to learn. And we give positive, ongoing feedback and encouragement. So if you think about that, that's actually a strengths-based learning environment. And somehow, we get away from that when we move into formal education because we start to put this adult agenda of what we believe children need to learn on top of every aspect of their day. So, you know, we're talking about the standardized curriculum, and for a lot of our kids, that makes no sense. For gifted kids, they may have already mastered it years above what they're doing in asynchronous areas—I'm not saying in all areas, but in some areas, they may be far above. And there's no reason for them to do this curriculum. And I think when faced with that, they often give up. And then we wonder why they don't have this self-efficacy, which is kind of grit, resilience, sticking with it. And that comes from a complete mismatch from the kind of environment that actually promotes strengths-based learning to the kind of environment that's been codified and fossilized into what we think kids need to learn. So yes, there are different schools, both public and private, that are approaching things in different ways. Some really gifted and amazing teachers do this naturally and keep the strengths-based learning going naturally. But I think, for the main, it doesn't happen once our kids get into school. And that's a tragedy because our kids have this potential to—a lot of them are very self-directed, autodidactic learners. And just sort of given support and time and space and materials, they would probably thrive much better than when they're being so directed in a school environment. So I want to address those things that are on the questions. I know a lot of you are thinking about: How do they develop that resiliency and grit? How do you make them do things they don't want to do? How do we help them overcome their fear and build confidence? Everybody has to learn how to do boring things. Like, I know, I understand all of that. And all of those things are also correct. But I think they can be taught through a strengths-based model, just like we have when they were babies. So with all of those things in mind, there's four things that I think parents can keep in mind. One is to be a curious parent—to really, truly try to understand your child's world, where they're coming from, why they're doing what they're doing. Think about building intrinsic motivation through that understanding: Why do they do what they love to do, and why? And how can you weave that into other things? Think about your timing—like, our kids need incremental growth opportunities, and the timing needs to be right for it to be intrinsic motivation. So that's, again, really looking at where they're coming from based on both their developmental place—where are they developmentally in their growth? What's appropriate for them to learn? And also, what are they motivated to do? And then the last thing is really evaluate your own perspective and your own desires versus what does your child really need? Because I think we, as adults, sometimes feel like they've got to do this, they've got to do this. I can see all these things they've got to do. And it creates a lot of anxiety for you and puts you in a pretty difficult position to be an effective parent. And we don't really know what our kids are going to be facing. And so, you know, as we get through the questions, I think I'll answer this a little more. But there's some specific things that aren't necessarily academic that I would, as a parent, be more focused on to make sure that my kid would be functional in whatever the future looks like for them. Yael Valek: That was already so amazing right out the gate. It definitely makes me think about, you know, my kids and their lives in public school right now. So I would love to hear more about how Big Minds approaches strengths-based learning. And then, how can we get other schools—because I know that's a very unique environment—how do we get other schools, especially schools that don't have this mindset at all, public schools, to also adapt some of these philosophies? And thank you. And I'm the first to acknowledge that there are many, many people who need to be in public school and that doing something else is not an option. So I know, you know, I come from a place of privilege where I was able to homeschool my kids and then I was able to create Big Minds. And, you know, that's not always possible. So what I'll try to really give you guys today is sort of: Do what you can based on what your circumstances are. So I will give you the magical unicorn of Big Minds first because it's like the best of all worlds. And I can say that because I've had many 2e kids tell me that. They have vetted Big Minds over and over again, and I think they're the real experts. In fact, it was funny—we had a kid come through to do our shadow week, and he's like, "This is exactly the school I designed." So that made me feel really good. So let me tell you a little bit about that. It is a strengths-based school. That's our number one thing—is that the kids get to spend their time doing the things that they're good at. In fact, we do that so much that at the start, before each semester, we send out a survey to the kids and say, "What do you want to learn this semester?" Then we compile that information, and we put together the classes that the majority of the kids want to do. And there's ones that are repeating oftentimes—like, we have a lot of kids that want to learn foreign languages. That comes up a lot. Physics comes up a lot. Chemistry comes up a lot. Game design comes up a lot. Coding and programming comes up a lot. Various art classes. We actually—a life skills class comes up a lot. I was just talking with Callie about this. Our kids are pretty aware that they need to learn how to do things, especially as they get into the upper elementary and middle school grades. And then we also provide what we call passion project coaching. So those kids who have this outlier interest that nobody else seems to be interested in, they get to sign up for coaches to do specific work around that project with them. Because learning is a social activity, and to have someone who's interested in what you're doing, who can bring expert perspective, who can help you, you know, do a timeline for the project or help with the executive functioning or give you ideas about how this might be applicable—can bring their life experience. That's huge for our kids, and it's very validating and self-efficacy-building. So that is a part of the curriculum as well. And then I will say—mostly for the parents, but also because we recognize that our kids are going to have to have a certain level of math and reading and writing skills, and not everybody comes to us with giftedness or high ability in those areas—so we do have one-on-one math and literacy coaching. It's only required for 30 minutes per subject per week. Kids who love math can sign up for much more. Kids who love writing and reading can sign up for much more. There's also a lot of really—you know, we talk about the enriched environment—there's a lot of enriched environment things that go on too. Like, we have book clubs, and we have a movie club. There's all kinds of math and puzzle-solving and coding and things like that in different activities and games and things that are going on throughout the day. The way that Big Minds is—in person, and we tried to replicate this the best we could online—but basically, in person, the kids can walk throughout the campus however they want throughout the day. So let's say, you know, the classes are running concurrently. A child can go in and spend half of a class in the art class, and then they're moving into something that the child's not that interested in. So they're going to go in and catch what's going on for the last part of the physics class. That's totally okay with us as long as they're not disrupting and interrupting other kids' learning. They can come and go as they like. If they're sitting on the couch in the main communal space and they're on their iPad making a stop-motion animation or they're writing lyrics for their rap song or they're writing a book or they're reading or napping—we're okay with all of that too. So there's a great respect for the child's inherent knowledge of what they need. One of the things we know that most schools don't understand is that our kids spend so much energy into dealing with the sensory, the anxiety, the empathetic—the empath sort of things, the environmental stressors—that we respect that they know when they need to go in the Lego room and just build Legos for a while or go into the zen room and sit there quietly with the lights turned off and the sound of the fountain. You know, it's like—they have wisdom about that. And I think we, as adults, often forget that children do know themselves better probably than anybody else, and we tend to devalue and undermine that. And so we try really hard at Big Minds not to do that. So they're in this strengths-based learning environment. They're in an enriched environment, meaning that there's all sorts of things going on at all times—like I was talking about earlier: all clubs, get-togethers, social conversations, discussions about the brain and how it works. Like, these things are happening all over the campus. And so the kids walking around—you know, just if you're one of those kids who, when you first come, you need to sort of take it all in for a few months and you're not going to really participate in anything—we're fine with that too because we know they're learning as they're just floating around doing this stuff. I say it's like—you know, when you're learning a language, you don't want to speak right away because you're embarrassed about your accent or you're going to get it wrong. But you can hear and sort of understand and participate just in the silent period of language learning. And that's what our kids often do. We have kind of two kinds of kids. Like, the kids who are more introverted, sort of observers, will generally go into one classroom and stay there until they develop this sense of comfort and relationship with the teachers. And they get this social group they feel comfortable with, and then they'll slowly start to branch out. And then the extrovert kind of "exploder" kids will go from thing to thing to thing to thing. They can just always be running around for the first few months until they start to settle and they really start to see what it is that they love. And I think for a lot of our kids, this is the first time they've really been able to explore a variety of interests that resonate with them. And so we let them do that too because we know eventually they're going to find their place—both kinds of kids—and they're going to figure it out. And we also respect that a lot of these kids haven't had good friends, and that the social aspect and wanting to be in the Lego room playing with their friends all day is the most important part of their learning right now. And so if we've got kids that sit out on the tables on the porch and play games with their friends all day, we've got kids that sit and visit all day, we've got kids that play Legos all day—that's the important part of an environment where it is self-directed learning. Is that we have respect for all levels. Like, there's no hierarchy around "academics are the most important thing you do here," and then the other stuff goes down until we finally get to maybe creative or social endeavors. To us, all of those are equally important based on what the child needs and what they inherently know they need. And so, you know, our tagline is: "We fit the school to the child." And we really do. Like, we really allow them the freedom to discover what it is that they need. But—you know, having said that—they're not left without any support. So if there are kids that say, "Would you please make a schedule for me? I feel really overwhelmed by all the choices today," we'll definitely do that. If there's kids who want support around developing social skills, we will definitely do that. So there's this mentoring team who is there to provide whatever support they need—but not with that adult agenda. It's around helping them to connect authentically. And then the last part of it is—the school itself is designed to be a sensory-soothing environment. You know, it's not classrooms with desks. Sure, we've got tables—like in the science room, in the computer room, and things like that—tabletops and chairs. But there's a lot of soft furniture. The sound is designed to absorb sound so that it's not a lot of resonating, clattery sound like you get in a lot of classrooms. We don't hang a million things from the ceiling so that it's visually overstimulating. The colors are soft. The rooms are designed so that there could be just a few kids—a handful of kids—in each room at a time. And that's generally how it is. I would say most rooms have five to seven kids in them at any one time. Our busiest time at the end of the day is when everybody's going home at the same time. We have a staggered drop-off, so kids come between 8:30 and 10. We call it a "soft start," which reduces all that morning stress but also is designed to give kids social interaction time. And even at the end of the day, when it is loud and noisy and everybody's leaving at once, we've got kids that know that, so they'll go in the zen room or the music room and close the door and have that quiet space until their parents come to pick them up. So it's really about understanding all the aspects of being twice-exceptional. I hire people who, number one, are kind, flexible, curious, and creative. I can train them how to be teachers. In fact, being a credentialed teacher is not even high on our priority list. We do have some, but mainly I'm looking for people who are gifted, talented, interested in one particular area where they bring their passion to the classroom. Like, our history teacher—one of her most popular classes that everybody asked for over and over again is open discussion about history, where kids can just come in and talk about whatever. And she's so well-versed in history, she can just go to town with it. And if she doesn't know, they'll all look it up together and do research. And so it's this very fluid, flexible, supportive environment. Do our kids learn how to do hard things? Yeah. Do they develop grit? Yes. Do they get good at doing boring, repetitive stuff? No. Because no 2e kid in the world is going to willingly do a boring, repetitive thing. But as they get older, they start to understand why that's necessary. And that's the secret. So the magic secret for getting kids to do things is intrinsic motivation. And if you can help them learn—like, you know, in high school, you're going to be required to do some form of note-taking. Let's help you figure out which one works with your strengths. They'll stick with it. You know, learning language can be boring. They'll stick with it. So it's around really looking at how to honor that child and support every aspect of their spiky, little asynchronous being. Callie Turk: I think just following up on that—because this sounds like such a magical setting, and I wish I could transport my kids back, you know, seven or eight years so they could experience all of the magic—but just sort of following up on Yael's original question, I think a lot of us are like, "Wow, that's amazing, and I wish we could have that, but my kids still need to go to the public school in the neighborhood." And I'm trying to figure out, how could I get them to incorporate even just some of the things that you're doing? So if there's anything that you can offer advice about—how do we help get some of our local schools to adopt at least some of these things, since they may not have the training or the background that you have? Melanie Hayes: Of course. Yeah, I mean, and I recognize that. I feel like the key is to try to find ways that is not a lot of extra work for the teacher, that you know is not threatening in any way. You know, it's like we have to sort of bring it in a nice gift-wrap package so that they'll be willing to at least try it. But I feel like there are things that we could do. Like, I know some kids—especially younger kids—you know, they're still willing to do the worksheets, and they'll burn through them in no time, and then they don't know what to do. So the teachers don't have the bandwidth to do individual—"Let's give them something else." And so they end up giving them more worksheets, which is then what leads to this burnout and disengagement. So I know one of the things I've recommended is to create a workbox of all sorts of things that your child likes to do that the school agrees to—obviously, they're not going to probably let you put an iPad in there, but you could have different books, different puzzle books, different art supplies. If they're working on a particular story or a series of drawings, or if they're making some kind of a paper construction—are they researching something? So can you have books about whatever that topic they're interested in at the time that they could pull out and quietly read? I think that really helps with the younger children because the teacher's not going to be opposed to any of that because it keeps your child quietly occupied. They're doing learning activities. The only thing I could see that might be pushback is other kids will be really interested in what the kid's doing and want to do it. And like, "Hey, how come I can't do that?" So there might be some negotiation that maybe the teacher creates a quiet workspace that the classroom rule is: When you're done with this project or worksheet, you can go back to the table and work on your own project. So you might be able to convince a teacher to set something up like that in the classroom that becomes part of the classroom protocol. And really, I think you can argue for a teacher that that makes their job easier because if the kids can go and do quiet activities that keep them occupied that are self-choice activities, then the teacher has more time and bandwidth to help those kids who are still struggling and taking longer. So that's one argument for the younger kids. I also think—for like middle school, it could be for elementary too—but for middle school and high school kids, is there an option for them to say, like, go to the library or the principal's office and do an online advanced or accelerated course during—say, if they're really great at math? Can they do a really rapidly accelerated math curriculum in a different setting? Some—I know some people that have had a tutor come because their kid's doing calculus when they're in sixth grade. And so the tutor comes to the library, works with them during that math hour that the classroom is normally doing math. Some enlightened teachers have been willing to let kids use the computers or whatever device the school uses to sign on to things like Brilliant or Khan Academy or Beast Academy math—you know, things that the kids can do self-paced. If your teacher is willing to do that, that can be extremely helpful to have your child—in those areas where they're very advanced—to be able to work at their actual level so that they're learning things. Because a lot of our kids get really turned off by the repetition and having to keep going over and over something they've already mastered a long time ago. The other thing that turns them off is having to do something that they can't do. So, you know, maybe there's a writing assignment, and they've got dysgraphia or fine motor skills, and the writing is torturous. And so in the hour, they write one sentence when, in their mind during that time, there was a whole novel composed. And so, you know, it's thinking about: How can they use technology? Can they use speech-to-text? Could they find another way to do the assignment? I've had some teachers be willing to let kids do—you know, like younger kids—stop-motion animation or a collage or a comic book. Older kids, they may be able to do like a mock YouTube video where they're describing and telling everything they know. Some kids have been able to just record having a mock conversation with the teacher where they answer the questions that the teacher has given them—the assignment is supposed to show. So one of the things you can do is ask the teacher: Is it possible, when there's an assignment, to give us a list of the things that you want the child to demonstrate that they've learned from this lesson? And most teachers do that anyway. You know, there's like, "Here's what you're going to have to be able to take a test that covers these things," or "You have to write a paper that covers these things." So then you say, "Is there an alternative way for my child to demonstrate that knowledge?" And I think—I mean, I guess I have to acknowledge that teachers—there's time constraints. If they're going to watch a YouTube video, but I can't imagine that would be much longer than reading a paper or correcting a test. So hopefully, they will be open to letting you bring a little bit more creative way to demonstrate the kid's mastery into the classroom. I think by high school, it gets a little easier because they can take AP classes in those areas where they're advanced already. And oftentimes, they have pretty good resources for—you know, that the kids sometime during the day can get a release period where they go work with a resource teacher in those areas where they're struggling. Certainly, if you have IEPs or 504s, you can try to get accommodations written in for that—for either different ways to demonstrate knowledge or reduced homework loads. That's probably not going to fly in middle school or high school, but certainly in elementary school, you can advocate for reduced homework loads. You can get it in middle school and high school, but they'll start to say, "Well, then that's a modified curriculum, and they're not going to get the A-G diploma." So it's a little trickier there. But what you can advocate for is: Is there another way for them to demonstrate what they know? And then, obviously, if they have special ed support for those areas where they're struggling—again, that's tricky. A lot of people don't want their kids to do special ed for high school because they don't want the modified diploma. But you can still advocate for resources, even if it's like they get to spend time in the counselor's office, the principal's office, the library. Like, if your child is a child who gets sensory overwhelm or the anxiety—they, you know, you can get them to agree to: The child has some kind of a pass that when they're feeling overwhelmed, they can go to the counselor's office. Things like that. So our kids need an escape hatch for those kinds of sensory and anxiety—when they're really feeling overwhelmed, they just need to know there's somewhere they can go where they feel safe, where they can catch their breath, they can re-energize, be ready to go on to the next thing. And you know, for middle school, it might be during the lunch hour when there's so much chaos and full of potential bullying and things like that that are so overwhelming for our kids. You can create things like that. So I would say: Look at your child's biggest challenges, look at their strengths, and see if there's some way you can partner with the school to provide creative solutions for that. And unless they're draconian, I would think most people would be like, "Yeah, okay, this doesn't require me to do that much, and I can see where it would really help your child to be engaged and to learn and to, you know, be more well-behaved in class." I mean, that's always a good argument: "My child will be much less disruptive if you will let them do this thing." So I think those are all the sort of main things that you could bring that sort of Big Minds-ish joy into their regular school day. Callie Turk: Thank you. Those are so helpful. And yes, we have found that "your classroom will have less disruptions and behavior challenges" has been a big seller for the teacher. And I would say—to all of you parents—don't underutilize REAL. They have some amazing resources to give to your teachers. Thank you. So the next question we had—we're curious about is: What should parents do at home to bolster the kids' strengths at home? And also, any specific tips for over the summer? Melanie Hayes: Yeah, I think, you know, we—especially because of the pandemic—you know, we've watched our kids just become screen junkies and spend all their time on the screen, either for school or just they're so exhausted they don't want to do anything else, they can't do anything else, they're restricted from doing anything else. So I think this summer—fingers crossed—most children should be able to be vaccinated, most adults should be able to be vaccinated. So I feel like things are opening up. I know we were saying that children's sports are picking back up again. So a lot of the things that they used to do—whether it be dance or art or, you know, being out in nature, sports classes, science lab experiences, things like that that tend to really motivate our kids to stay in that learning environment, to want to continue to develop their skills—those things should start opening up again. But I also want to caution against over-scheduling. And I know this is a weird balancing act for 2e kids because they have this rage to learn, and they want to do five million things over the summer. And they're going to give you this whole list of things to do. And that can be great, and I'm not saying don't do it if that's what your child really wants to do. But I also think it's important to teach your kids that boredom is a critical part of learning too. I mean, it's sort of the wellspring of all creative endeavors. And I think our children—like, well, all of us—I'm not going to tag the kids because all of us are so conditioned now. When we're in any sort of situation where we're standing in line or there's a—whoop, out comes the phone. We're doing our work, we're playing a game, or, you know, whatever. Our kids are the same. But I think it helps them to have those conversations. And there's some really great stuff online that you could watch with them or books that you could read with them about the importance of having downtime—like, just mental downtime. I know, you know, mindfulness and all that is the buzzwords, and the kids will be like, "I have mindfulness." But I think telling them, "Boredom is good, and boredom is important, and they should welcome boredom and see where it takes them"—I think that can be an important thing for the summer too. In general, if you have a kid who doesn't—they haven't given you the big list of things they want to do, if you don't already know what their strengths and passions are, start having those curious parent questions. You know, like, "What would your perfect summer look like?" They'd be like, "I'd be on the iPad all summer doing nothing but playing—what's that latest one? I can't remember. There's—it's like Minecraft, but it's really beautiful graphics." And frankly, I can't blame them for wanting to get lost in it. I think it's okay this summer for a couple reasons. One, I think our kids have been through an extremely traumatic year, and we tend to, I think, forget how traumatic this has been for them. And a lot of them are really dealing with the trauma through escape. And, you know, for most of our kids, the screen—doing Roblox or Minecraft or, you know—what's the other one? I'm not a gamer, but you guys know the ones I'm talking about—all the popular ones. That's their escape hatch. And then for a little bit older kids, it's, you know, that's how they're socializing. So I'm not saying that I'm against screens because I think that they're going to continue to want to do them, and they may still need to do them because the switching back to being in person is going to be—I'm not going to say traumatic, but it's going to be hard. Like, there's wonderful things—they'll be super excited about it, but there's going to be things that are really emotionally difficult about getting back to seeing friends in person. So I think incremental—let them take it at their own pace. If they need a little downtime with an iPad or a device. And then the other thing is: What do they love to do, and how can you foster that? How can you facilitate that that falls within your time constraints, falls within your means? You know, you as a parent have a right to not be running non-stop all summer too. You need time to reacclimate from the pandemic and deal with your own trauma. So this is that kind of boredom argument—is like, give the kids time and space to figure it out. You know, and if they're bored, tell them that's okay. You'll figure it out. It's okay to be bored. Then the last thing I would do is: What can you do that you really enjoy? Like, what can you do together as a family, as one parent with one kid or, you know, a couple kids at a time, depending on how big your family is? What sort of things can you do that everybody really loves to do? And, you know, if you've got more than one kid, not everybody's going to love to do it, so that's why you sort of divide and conquer. If you really love to go out for tea and you've got a kid who loves chai tea, do that. If you've got another kid that likes to hike in the woods, go do that. If you've got a kid that wants you to sit there and watch them play Minecraft for half an hour, do that. You know, it's like—you're going to figure out ways to really validate who they are, what they're passionate about, what they love, you know, what they want you to admire in them. That's all the important stuff that builds the self-efficacy in your kids and reconnects them if they've sort of been disconnected from their passions. It could even be something as simple as like listening to podcasts that you're both interested in, going to a speaker series—like, just it's endless. I mean, you know, these kids—they come up with stuff that none of us have ever even imagined. And if you can find a way to do that with them and join them in their world, it's the most validating, self-esteem, self-efficacy-building thing you can do. Callie Turk: There's so many things that you said in there that I jotted down and wrote to myself—like, I really definitely want to ask my daughter now, "What would your perfect summer look like?" I think that's such a nice open-ended question, a nice open-ended way to be curious about what she'd like. And then, when you were talking about boredom, it really resonated with me in terms of the four things you sort of asked us to think about as parents. The fourth one was evaluating your own perspective and desires versus what your child needs. And how I think we, as parents, can get so anxious about our kids being bored—or maybe we have our own work to do, our own things we need to do, and so we want our kids to be busy all the time. And I think it was just really important to note the importance of boredom and how that could trigger our anxiety, but it's a really important thing to make time for. And it's hard at first because our kids aren't used to being bored because we have filled—especially if you've been one of those families where, you know, you're very proactive parent, and you're going to make sure your kid has activities. Nothing wrong with that. But it can put you on this dog-and-pony show that's exhausting. You know, so if you can kind of turn it back to your kid and say, "Okay, what do you want to do today?" And, you know, Callie, when you're having that conversation, it's fun to join in and do, "Okay, here's my perfect summer," because sometimes our kids forget that we're human too. And it can help them understand that, "Gosh, my parents actually have some needs too." So we've been starting to get questions from everyone who's here tonight, and we're happy to read your questions for you, or if you want to ask your own question. I was going to start with Lindsay's question. Lindsay, I'll read it unless you tell me you'd like to ask it yourself. Sounds like Lindsay has an 11-year-old that's a rising sixth grader, and Lindsay was wondering: How do you help a 2e child rediscover a love of learning? Her son is highly gifted but does not believe he is intelligent, given the significant struggles to perform in traditional school. So her son is doing a lot of school refusal and resistance to anything school-related but can't go to a private school right now. And this relates to a question Yael and I had thought of before, which is: You know, how do you help these kids that are just so hard on themselves and focus on what they're getting wrong or how slow they may be or how they don't fit in a traditional environment? Melanie Hayes: Yeah, well, you think about it—in a traditional school environment, that's the message they're getting every day, whether it's overt or inadvertent. They're hearing that you're not cutting it, there's something wrong with how you're doing this. So I really think knowledge about how their brain works, why things are hard for them, what their strengths are—like, especially if you've been able to get some kind of evaluation for your child to share—you know, maybe not the numbers per se, but share with them—older kids for sure, I think they should see the whole report—but younger kids, you could say, "You know, we found out that in this area, you're like way better than average people on puzzle-solving. But where in school do you get to demonstrate that?" You know, oftentimes, school doesn't have subjects that allow you to show these things you're really smart at. I would also—there's lots of wonderful stuff about adults talking about how they failed as children, how they were seen as incapable, and then, you know, everything from—there's a martial arts guy that was told he was mentally deficient his whole life, and now he's like the world martial arts champion. There's people that—you know, I know the guy Jonathan Mooney, who wrote The Short Bus , talks about being told how stupid he was because he couldn't read or write because he's dyslexic and dysgraphic. And his journey of discovery that he's actually really a good writer. I think things like that—like, if they can see—it's almost like that "It Gets Better" campaign—where you want them to see older people, maybe even a little bit older—high school, college-age students—that are like them, how they've figured it out. People who the world has seen as failures that have gone on to show them that they're talented in many areas. And I would particularly look for ones that have this skill set of your child. So, you know, don't talk about Einstein if your kid sucks at math and science. So, you know, so—and then the other thing I think is to show them ways to approach learning. We talked about that a little bit—like, if you're an artist, you might be able to draw this amazing collage or do a comic strip or, you know, a painting or something like that that demonstrates knowledge. And then just talk about what's in there. So I'm thinking about—you know, we've had quite a bit of social and ethical issues that have come up that a lot of teachers are having kids write about. And the traditional thing is they're going to write a paper on, you know, Black Lives Matter. Well, for a kid who writing is a disaster, can they demonstrate that some other way? And I think—to answer your question—what makes kids burnt out, disengaged, drop out, school refusal is because they never get a chance to figure out how they can approach something in a way that is strength-based. They don't get an opportunity to learn the things that they're really passionate about. It's just this—here's the four main core subjects, and then maybe we get in some art and PE and science once a week. You know, so it's the same kind of thing we talked about for summer—is like, well, what would your perfect learning environment look like? Would you be out in the woods studying frogs in a pond? Would you be doing building things on a 3D printer? Would you be making Lego constructions all day? Would you be writing your own video games? Would you be making character designs and world-building? Would you be playing RPG games? Like, there's so many things that we don't look at as learning. And that's the tragedy for 2e kids because our kids have a rage to learn whatever that topic is. They're going to bring stuff into it that you never expected. So I'll just use this as a quick example. My daughter is dyslexic—she's stealth dyslexia—so dyslexia, severe dyscalculia, minor dysgraphia, panic attacks when it comes to math, failed every math thing she ever did, felt like a complete loser around math. We started homeschooling before I started Big Minds, and she was always really interested in Dungeons & Dragons. And she is a storyteller naturally—like, one of those acted-out storytellers. So for her, role-playing games are just the perfect medium for her to tell these stories and act it out. So she learned how to become a dungeon master. Well, lo and behold, there is an aspect of math to Dungeons & Dragons. And guess who learned how to do math and actually stuck with it because it was in a low-stress environment, doing something she loved? There's no high stakes around it. She can take it at her own pace. She can learn incrementally. And she can bring it in in this natural, authentic way. So I say to parents: Whatever your child's strengths are, you can be creative and figure out how to bring in those skills they're going to need. And I'm not going to say that every kid's going to be able to do algebra and graduate from high school with maybe up to beginning trig or geometry. If your kid is an artist, they're never going to probably master that stuff. And so that's where you have to reevaluate and say, "What really matters here for my child? What are they going to need to be great at to do this thing that they're passionate about?" If they're an artist, maybe all the math they need is life skills math—how do you get on and, you know, do QuickBooks, how do you balance your checkbook? You know, those kinds of things—that's maybe all that's going to matter to them in the math world. And maybe you can bring math in through art—like the golden rectangle or, you know, Da Vinci's work. You know, maybe there's ways you can weave a little bit of math into the thing that they're passionate about. But they're not—you know, don't jump right in with that if there's a kid that hates math. You're going to be like, "Hey, I've got this great way to do math through art that you love," because then they're going to stop doing art. So let them just do the thing that they love the most until they start to recover that self-efficacy. Then, as they get a little older, you can help them see where they might need these written communication skills, these life skills, things like that. So once they see where they're going to need these things, then the intrinsic motivation will kick in. So that's what I'm talking about—timing, incremental, step by step. Rome wasn't built in a day. So you don't have to panic if your kid's a sixth grader and can't do math. When and if they need to do math, they still got their whole lifetime ahead of them to figure it out. Does that all make sense? Callie Turk: Yes, makes sense. And super helpful. It reminds me—we had someone tell us that they had a teacher who made everyone an expert on something in the classroom. And you had a little card that you were the expert on. So my son—it would be sharks. And they typically don't get to do much about that in class, but you got to go up in front of the class and talk about the thing you were an expert in. And just that little tiny thing just gave them something to look forward to when the rest of the day was, you know— Melanie Hayes: It's huge. Because if that's off, all you've got is, you know, here's what you can't do well. That reminds me—when I was a public school teacher in Orinda, we—I was teaching third grade, and we had to build this big town. You know, the curriculum is you build your town. And so we actually really built a little town, and kids got to—whatever—they got to build a business based on whatever their passion was. And then they got paid to be able to demonstrate that. So we had artists, we had story writers, we had dancers, we had, you know, like, we had scientists. So whatever you needed, you could go purchase it from those people. And that was the most engaged my kids ever were for the whole third-grade year. Callie Turk: It actually reminds me of a book I read recently—I'm going to—I don't know if I'm going to say this name right—by Yong Zhao. And I don't know if you follow his work, but the book is called Reach for Greatness , and it is about how can we help every child find their greatness. Right? And I think that's such an important and valuable philosophy to have. Melanie Hayes: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Callie Turk: So we have a question from Amy. Amy, would you like to unmute and ask your own, or if not, then I'll ask it? Amy: Where and how can 2e young people connect with their mind peers? Melanie Hayes: Yeah, yeah, that's—there's more of them out there than you think. So, you know, we are still sort of rare birds, but I—this same thing happened at the professional level. You know, for all these years, I've been in this field of research for over 20 years, and we were all in our own little silos. And then, thanks to the internet, suddenly we're all starting to connect. And I feel like it's this groundswell movement, and that is beginning to roll out to kids. So I know, like, Davidson Young Scholars has local events and summer camps. Profoundly Gifted Retreat—PG Retreat—has camps, things like that. So if those are in your budget and you live somewhere where that kind of thing is going on, definitely can do it that way. I know there are other—like, here in the Bay Area, we have Gifted Bay Area Gifted Homeschoolers—SFBAGS. So families get together through that. I know people have used Meetup to find other people. Some people have—like, through things like Bright & Quirky—they ask in the chat, "Hey, my kid's your age. Are you anywhere nearby? Can our kids—if not, can our kids have video dates?" You know, so— I know if you live near a college, oftentimes there are like gifted summer camps and things like that through a college. Or even just a gifted support group—you can find them that way. You can also look through interest-based groups. So not all 2e kids—it's around sort of the math, writing, science, you know, high-level functioning. Sometimes it's around they love to garden, or they love to cook, or they're a horseback rider and would love to work in a stable. So it's trying to find—again—what are their strengths? What are their passions? What are their interests? If you can find those—you know, say your child loves to work in a stable. They may not find necessarily a gifted peer where it's an intellectual troop here, but they might resonate at this other level where they share a love of animals. They're both highly empathetic. You know, so they're—you don't always have to look just in the intellectual realm. But having said that, I think it is important for kids to try to meet up with true intellectual peers because it's very normalizing to suddenly be at, you know, PG Retreat, and all the kids are like you. And you're like, "Oh my God, these are my people." You know, then it helps our kids when they're out in the world to say, "Yeah, dang it, I am part of a real culture." So, you know, it's like deaf kids and deaf culture—2e kids, gifted kids, this is a real culture. And we want our kids to be proud of it and to be activists and to advocate and to say, "This is who I am. These are my people. And I'm bringing my true self to the world." Callie Turk: I love that. And I think—I think a lot of the suggestions you've given work really well, especially when you have a receptive, potentially slightly younger child. But as a parent of a teen—I know one of the questions that had come in that I was really interested in is: What are ways to lead a teen toward their strengths into some of these activities? It could be they've just received their diagnosis, or it could just be that they're a teen, and so they're really not open to any adult interference in their lives. So yeah, if you have any suggestions for how do we do this once they reach their teenage years? Melanie Hayes: Yeah, I think with teens, the more autonomy, the better, right? So let them read their report. Let them digest it. Let them think about it. Offer support around anything they might be interested in pursuing. The more they can learn about their brain and how it works, the more empowered they're likely to be. But it's not necessarily going to come maybe in their teen years or, you know, right after they get the report. I think, you know, our culture tends to infantilize kids. You know, many other cultures—by teens, they're out working in the family business or, you know, going to college. A lot of countries start college in their teen years. And I think our kids push back. I think a lot of that—"Leave me alone, I want to figure this out, I want to be autonomous"—is because, you know, we're not intending to, but maybe we are hovering a little bit too much. Maybe we are trying to direct them too much. They, by the time you're a teen, you kind of have already started down that adult path that you're going to have to figure out on your own. And so I think, as a parent of teens, part of that is honoring that. And I know this can be hard, especially if your kid just disconnects, and they just want to stay home. Now, mental health things aside—if there's severe anxiety or depression or, you know, phobias or social anxiety things like that that are keeping them from being able to interact, then that's a different thing that requires support, professional support. But if your child may be just introverted, and they really just kind of want to spend their summer in their room drawing or reading or, you know, researching or, you know, going for solitary walks in the woods—whatever it is—I think it's good to honor that. Because what we're doing by supporting them as they're developing this autonomy is we're saying to them, "We believe that you can figure this out. We trust that you're going to make an adult path." And for a lot of anxious kids, we inadvertently reinforce that anxiety by always trying to direct them because they don't learn to trust themselves. And so if we can say, "You know what? This is hard. You're going to run up a lot of roadblocks. You're going to hit some brick walls. You're going to fail a bunch of times. But that's part of learning to be an adult. And you're also going to do some amazing things that I couldn't even think of because I'm not in your world." You know, I think of Khalil Gibran's poem about the arrow in the future—we don't even know where it's going to go. So, you know, trusting that you've given them that base that they need to launch from, and whatever support they need from you, you're there for them, that you believe in them—go do it. Callie Turk: I mean, I love—I keep saying this, but it's so true—I love so many things you said. Like, my oldest child came out recently as gender non-binary, and I think part of that journey for us has been this going from being anxious on their behalf to being—trying to have that attitude more of, "We believe in you and trust in you. You're going to go through hard things, but you will figure it out." And kind of trying to parent more from that place because the first—the first few weeks was more of a parenting from a fear place of all the bad things that could possibly happen and wanting to protect our child. And then realizing our child is actually very capable, but if we don't let them know that, then they can't do that and develop that strength in themselves. And one other follow-up question I had on this topic was—a couple of times tonight, you've mentioned, like, helping the kids read about their brain and so they know how their brain works. And I wondered if you had any specific resources for that, maybe for different age ranges. Melanie Hayes: Yeah, um, there's some great stuff on YouTube for younger kids. There's a channel called Happify that has—like, I can't remember the name—it's these two little owls, and it talks all about emotional regulation and feelings. It's from Norway, but it's just beautifully done. There's another one—and I'm blanking on the name of this too—but it's this little brain on two legs, and it's particularly for ADHD, and it talks about the wall of awful. So if you just went on YouTube and typed in "wall of awful," it will come up. I have name retrieval issues, if you can't tell. So yeah, you know, it's hard for me to remember who the authors and things are, but I have a visual memory, so I can tell you what it looks like. So that has a lot of resources around that. I know there's quite a few programs—like, I don't know, remember there was Netflix or Amazon, but they had one called Mindscape that just talked all about how the mind works. There's lots of great YouTube channels by people who are on the spectrum. I know there's one—she's clearly gifted, but she doesn't talk about being gifted. She just talks about her experience as an adult on the autism spectrum. There's quite a few of those that are really good. I'm hoping some 2e people who are, you know, gifted and on the spectrum or gifted ADHD, gifted and dyslexic—there's a few of them out there, but I'm hoping there's more of that that comes forward. I think things like Seth Perler's website has a lot about executive functioning. Tilt Parenting podcast, Bright & Quirky, Embracing Intensity—um, those are all really good podcasts to listen to about the divergent mind. And Embracing Intensity talks a lot about being sort of this empath and highly sensitive person. There's lots of good books. A woman—I do remember her name—Elaine Aron—she did the seminal research on highly sensitive people. And they actually have found that the brain is different in a person who's highly sensitive. So her website is just hsperson.com , I believe. Lots of resources on there. You can purchase her movies, but I know there's one called Sensitive , and in the title, the "sense" and the "eye" is big, and it has some famous singer in there that she talks about her experiences. But you can get that free on YouTube—the full movie. And I think that's a really good one to watch about being a highly sensitive person, an empath, how that can impact you. So do I have a list? I probably should make one. You know what I will do, Callie—you know, I will send you a draft of my book. Just don't circulate it anywhere because it has—at the end of each chapter, it has a whole bunch of these kinds of resources. And you guys can just feel free to pull from it. I should myself go through and make a list of, "Here's resources for this and this and this." But having just finished writing a book, that's kind of what I was doing. So I'm just going to send it to you, and you can, you know, keep it under wraps, utilize the information as you see fit. Callie Turk: Before I turn this back over to Yael for the next question, I'll just continue to monopolize. I will say—the book that you wrote, you know, that focuses on, like, what are the life skills that you need if you are an autistic adult—it's like, I think you're going to be the next Julie Lythcott-Haims, who's written all the books about being an adult. But I've always wanted there to be a version that, like, took into account the fact that there is neurodivergence in the world. Yeah, you know, like, because we can't—we can all become adults, but maybe not on the same timeline or exactly in the same way. And I am really looking forward to your book. Melanie Hayes: Yeah, I'm pretty sure my publisher hopes I become that too. Callie Turk: We'll help. We'll do whatever we can. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to see it. For the audience, feel free to ask her questions at any time. Otherwise, Kelly and I can go all night. So one other question that comes up a lot is: How much to support your child? So one of the questions we got was: How do you determine what are necessary skills for your child to develop and which ones can be left by the wayside—for example, handwriting? And then someone else asked: How much academic and life skills support is it okay to provide, and until when? Melanie Hayes: Yeah, those are both really, really good questions. So the first one is: I would think about how much trauma—how much, you know, fighting, antagonistic behavior, anti-love-and-connection is happening over whatever that—handwriting, math homework, getting dressed by yourself, bathing yourself—you know, whatever age your kid is. How much of that is really tearing apart your relationship? And then think about what you can do to support that. And some of it is just finding out—like, I'll say my son—teeth brushing was a complete nightmare. We figured, okay, he doesn't like the electric toothbrush. We'll get him a regular toothbrush. For probably three months, it never dawned on me that the toothpaste might be too spicy. And so finally, in exasperation one day, I was like, "Why won't you brush your teeth?" And he's like, "It's too spicy." I think he was about six. So voila, we got bubblegum-flavor toothpaste. He went through, and we bought all the different kinds of flavored toothpaste. He tasted them all. He picked the one he wanted. We never had a problem again. So some of it is that curious parenting. Some of it is, you know, they're just not developmentally ready. You know, like, maybe getting ready for bed each night is really difficult for them because they have executive functioning, and the minute they're brushing their teeth, their mind is la-la-la thinking about this, and they've forgotten all the rest of the steps they're supposed to do for the night. Older kids—like, maybe they need help with making sure everything's in the backpack the night before. You know, um, it's kind of like attachment parenting. You know, you think about all those experts—like, "No, you must do the Ferber sleep method," or whatever it was, where you leave your kids. And for some people, that worked fine. For other kids, their kids were traumatized by being left alone. So, you know, your kid better than anybody else. So think about those things that they definitely—their part of being attached to you is knowing when they desperately need you, you will be there. And that goes all the way through into their 20s. My kids are both 20, and there's times I still have to help them with things. So think about: Is it an attachment issue? Does my child really have anxiety and insecurity around this? And can I provide support to them in a way that doesn't reiterate the anxiety? So I don't want to be stuck in this anxiety loop that "I can't do it," but in a way that says, "Okay, what parts of this are hard for you? Let's brainstorm together. Let me see how I can help you with this." So it's this independence-building. It's that incremental steps towards independence. And every kid is different. Like, my child—my son didn't really be able to fully dress himself properly until he was about nine. My daughter still can't drive and still has panic attacks thinking about driving. So for her, it's going to be this slow, incremental process. We finally figured out we need to go to some like abandoned fairground with just her and I in the car and let her like creep along at two miles an hour with me sitting beside her because I'm her comfort person. Everybody in the family has, you know, who's the person you feel like is going to make you the least anxious? That's the person who should be helping you do this thing that's hard. And go through that—like, for the things that they're really struggling with doing, go through: How can I support them in a way that eventually builds independence? And the second thing is—like, is there—I think you ask when should you stop? Um, when they say, "Thanks, I got it," that's when you should stop offering support. Yeah, you know. I think—something I'm learning because my 2e daughter is 15, so she's just finishing her freshman year—is I'm trying to be like that—have a curious mind more frequently. And I don't catch it all the time. I rarely catch it immediately. It takes some time. But, you know, she's—I can tell when she's trying to be a little more independent with her work. Like, at the beginning of the year, I had to make sure she really knew what she was doing. But as time has gone by, like, she's starting to push back on how involved I am. Right? And as she is pushing back, then I'm like, "Oh, wait, now might be a time for me to step back." And so I kind of go with that Bright & Quirky idea around experimenting—okay, I'll step back for a week, and we'll see how things go. You know? And I don't always even tell her I'm stepping back. That's one way that I try to kind of figure it out. Melanie Hayes: Yeah, and the other flip side of that is not stepping in if they don't ask for it. Like, we need to let our kids struggle a little bit. You know, let them try and fail and try and fail because that's how they build self-efficacy. But it's that razor's edge, right? You don't want to leave them so long that then they give up and feel like there's no way. But you want to let them try a little bit. And sometimes those encouraging comments—like, "Hey, that part of it you did really well. Do you need help with this part?" Or, you know, "Wow, I know she did that all on your own this time. Way to go." Like, you can't be too authentically positive. You know, we don't want to pump sunshine all the time. But I think when they do something well—as parents, our job is to correct and discipline and teach. And so we tend to naturally—we're going to say more about the things that they're not doing or the things they're doing wrong or the things they've got to do better. So if you really consciously try to say as many positive, you know, "You did well," self-efficacy-building kind of comments—that is also the other piece to stepping back when they're giving you the message, not stepping in too soon, you know, giving them a chance—that's an important part of it too. Callie Turk: Well, um, I'm still getting this parenting thing down, that's for sure. So Jane asked—Jane, and I assume you want me to ask this since you put in the chat—"Where do students go after they are too old for Big Minds?" Melanie Hayes: That's a good question. Um, a variety of places. So we were talking earlier—one of the schools that's a high school in San Francisco, it's a private high school, um, it's similar in its model—it's called Academy of Thought and Industry. So some of our kids go there. But for some, it's too expensive or too long of a distance. But the kids who've gone there tend to do really well there because it's a similar self-directed kind of model. There's a place in Orinda called Holden High School that's counseling-enriched. So some of our kids that need that—you know, sort of emotional support, lots of hands-on, teachers and counselors have your back, lots of group work, social-emotional building that happens there—some of our kids have done really well there. Fusion and Tilden tend to be good for the kids who just want to go to the high school, do the class, get it out of the way, graduate with their diploma. Um, we've found like Lydian Academy is for some people is good because they're really hand-holding. They'll, you know, really work hard to get the kid through. A lot of our kids do things like concurrent enrollment at a community college. And in California, if you do that as a ninth grader and your high school signs off on it, for every college class you take, you get two high school semester credits. So it's like, if you take all of the high school curriculum as a college student, you can pretty much get all of your high school done in two years. And so in two years, you get a high school diploma and your first two years of college out of the way. Some of our kids take the California High School Proficiency Exam. So if you know what that is—it's not the GED. It's an actual proficiency exam proctored by the State Board of Education. It's about a four-hour test. They test them only on English and math, but they're pretty in-depth. It goes up through beginning trigonometry for math, and then all aspects of mechanics, grammar, vocabulary, all that sort of stuff for English. And then there's also an essay-writing section. So some kids are not going to be able to do that because test-taking is impossible. But some kids have done it and taken it and left Big Minds at the end of eighth grade as a high school graduate. The—the proficiency—they don't call it a diploma, but basically your proof of passing the CHSPE exam is the equivalent of and can be used at any A-G college. So that's a good out for some of our kids. And a lot of the Big Minds kids that want to do that, we spend their eighth—maybe even seventh and eighth grade years—preparing them to take the CHSPE. So we teach them all sorts of test-taking skills. We go through the CHSP manual with them, all that sort of stuff. Some do homeschooling. Some do online high schools. Some do charter schools like Mentoring Academy or Oakland School for the Arts. A few have gone back to public high school for different reasons and done fine—because they were intrinsically motivated to do so. But I would say public traditional model is probably the least preferred of 2e kids. But it really depends on the child. Callie Turk: Thank you so much. That was an awesome list of schools. Jane is following up with: "Do none high schools that don't use grades?" Melanie Hayes: Hmm. Let me think about that. I am not sure if Academy of Thought and Industry does. If they do, it's more of a rubric because they're very much—the students design their projects. They integrate the subjects into that. They have Socratic circles. That's a good question. You know, that's one question I haven't necessarily asked schools when I've talked to them. So I'll have to add that to my—I have a list of questions to ask potential schools that I give out to people. I'll have to add that to that list. Thank you. That's a good idea. Callie Turk: So I'm going to squeeze in one last question, and then I know it's almost time to wrap up. So we want to leave you time for any final thoughts. But one question that I love that someone sent in was: "Can an interest in trivia, general knowledge, and video games be considered strengths in a 2e child?" Melanie Hayes: So absolutely. We've had a lot of people say, "My kid doesn't have like a math strength. So what is their strength, and how do I use it?" Well, let me have you think about it this way: Do you know how many super-wealthy people who have designed tech industry stuff started out as being major gamers? So is there a path to financial success through gaming? Through trivia? Through code-breaking? Through puzzle boxes? Like, all that kind of stuff—absolutely. I'm thinking—we had a kid at Big Minds who spent all of his time in the Lego room, and he built these intricate things with moving parts. Like, the last year he was with us, he made all of these little secret boxes where you had to figure out how to open them up, and they had all these really cool, intricate moving parts. And he's interested in becoming an architect. And I think he's going to be fantastic. You know, now that he's in eighth—end of eighth grade, and he's in high school now—he's going to be great at it. And did he learn how to do that through playing with Legos? Through messing around on different graphic design programs? Yeah. So I think that's that thing—if you could see inside of a 2e kid's mind, it looks like they're just playing video games or, you know, doing puzzles. But there's so much interconnected stuff. Like, our kids are great at making these systemic thought webs where they bring in all this disparate knowledge, and then they come up with something really unique. You know, I always use George Lucas as the example. He wrote books full of lists of what things would look like on another planet. What's this? You know, and look at him. I'm sure his parents despaired that he would ever get a job when all he did was spend his days writing these lists in notebooks. So you just don't know how they're going to bring these passions and skills and interests and strengths together. So I don't think you can go wrong supporting them in whatever it is their passion is. You know, there's Jane Goodall. There's, you know, dancers. There's artists. There's—whatever it is, they're out there. Callie Turk: I love that. I love—I love the thought of George Lucas writing lists of aliens and what his parents must have thought of that. Is there any final thoughts you'd like to leave our parents with about bolstering kids' strengths and supporting 2e kids? Melanie Hayes: I think, you know, recognizing that our kids—one of their biggest strengths is the entrepreneurial mind. So anything you can do to support, foster, approve of, you know, help them recognize that that's a strength—that critical thinking, creative thinking, entrepreneurial—because they can look at problems that there aren't solutions to, and they love it. You know, one of the most successful classes we ever did at Big Minds was—there used to be a site called "This Is Broken," where people would put in things that didn't work right and how frustrating it was. And the kids would take that and try to figure out a better way. So almost like an industrial design class. But I think really anything you can do to foster that creative, entrepreneurial spirit. And the second thing is—I think really start to be aware of your own strengths and think back when you were a child, what you were great at that maybe the world took away from you or told you wasn't viable or, you know, that you can't make a living doing that. Because I think sometimes our own frustrations and anxieties come from that lost opportunity that we had as children. And so, you know, there's a trauma in there, and it's locked in our history. And so anxiety and fear is our knee-jerk reaction when really it's more about us. So if you can look into your own frustrated ambitions and strengths and passions and try to find a way to bring them back into your own life so that you're modeling for your children how to do the thing that you're telling them will make them the happiest, most successful—the kind of thing you picture for them. You know, as parents, we want our children to be engaged in a passionate vocation, to find people who love them for who they are, to have wonderful experiences, to, you know, take in the beauty of everything around them. And the way that they do that is to feel that they can be their authentic selves from a very young age. And I want that for us as parents too—to feel like we can be our authentic selves because that's how we change the world. Callie Turk: It's just so beautiful. And I've taken pages of notes with all of your wisdom and things that I'm going to carry with me. I know. So I just thank you so much, Melanie, for being with us tonight and for being just so gracious and sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom with our community and for being a champion for different minds. They need all the champions they can get, and you're amazing. Thank you. Melanie Hayes: Well, thanks to you guys for being champions too. I know your work is important, and I'm happy to support REEL however I can. You know, if it's helpful to do more of these where parents can get specific questions answered—however I can be of use to our community because we are a culture. And I want people to be proud of being 2e and to shout out from the rooftops. So the more we can do to help us feel great about ourselves, the better. Callie Turk: Wow. Thank you. You're just—you've got such a generous spirit that I think we're all feeling and is percolating everywhere, even on this remote environment. Thank you so much. We look forward to doing another one of these with you soon. Melanie Hayes: Yeah, it'd be my pleasure. Callie Turk: Thank you, everyone, for coming. We will post the recording in the next few days and send out information on some of our upcoming events. So we really hope to keep seeing you and keep building our community and supporting each other with these awesome kids. Good night!

Writing almost always tops the list of challenges for all types of 2e learners, who have both high ability and potential as well as complex challenges such as specific learning disabilities (e.g. dyslexia), autism, ADHD, and anxiety. Parents and educators need tips to help these students experience success with writing. Renowned 2e expert Dr. Susan Baum joined REEL for a creative and pragmatic discussion on ways to support writing development for 2e learners. Read the transcript here Dr. Susan Baum: Strategies to Ignite the Reluctant Writer - Formatted Transcript 0:00 About strategies for struggling writers and um you feel free to introduce yourselves in the chat some of you have been doing that and you can also use the chat to ask questions um susan will be speaking for about 45 minutes to an hour and after that we will ask q a from the chat but feel free to ask as we go and we'll note them for later and we are recording this session so that we can screen it later. So um welcome everyone if you're not familiar with real we are resilience and engagement for every learner i'm one of the co-founders yeah elbolic and cali turk is the other co-founder here with me. The mission of real is to ensure that twice exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent and educator awareness and understanding through resources tools events like this one and services. 0:49 So on our website realty.org we have a lot of articles blog posts and recordings of past events from everything from how to uh teach your child to self-advocate um how should strength-based learning work what are some strategies for anxious tui kids and more and also you can share the tui fact sheet with your teachers. We have a couple of upcoming events and more going to be announced soon um we have a support group with parents helping parents on january 13th at 7 p.m you can sign up on our website and we will also have a strength-based parenting event in february the date will be announced soon and we have all of our other fall events recorded on our website so feel free to browse those including we just wrapped up the stanford neurodiversity summit and we had three panels on k-12 um if you'd like to keep in touch with us and you haven't yet please join our real google group where parents ask each other questions and we notify you of upcoming events or other interesting resources we come across our website and you can also follow us on facebook and twitter real also hosts events for educators you can bring these workshops to your school your district so please contact us if you would like us uh to come and deliver these to your school we have done these with several local school districts including intro to the 2e learner where we give interactive vignettes so people can go through actual stories of real tui learners and what strategies help them in the classroom and learning different simulations where we help help build empathy um for learning differences so please contact us at real2e.org to bring these workshops to your school kelly i'm going to stop sharing so you can introduce susan great well i just couldn't be happier tonight. 2:47 And more excited to welcome dr susan baum as our guest speaker on strategies for struggling writers when we surveyed our real community earlier this year to see which topics might be most helpful for for everyone writing came up almost at the very tip top it was it was right tied with anxiety and when i saw that and we made the commitment to doing a session on writing i knew there was no better person to address this topic and help the parents and educators in our community than dr baum she is a literal rock star in the twice exceptional universe i when you see her and you see people meet her she's just everyone's so alive when they get the chance to to meet her and she currently serves as the director of the tui center for research and professional development at bridges academy and is the provost for academics at the bridges graduate school of cognitive diversity and education but those titles don't really reveal her deep commitment to creating new generations of leaders who can continue to find ways to support 2e and cognitively diverse students for many years to come and i knew that she would be the best person to invite to speak because not only is she someone i've admired for many years i also have the honor of having her as my advisor at the bridges graduate school in my doctoral program and i have been so honored to be able to be in her classes when she talks about strategies for helping 2e kids especially those that have writing challenges the wisdom just flows and you want to soak up everything she says and only wish you could remember it all when you're actually sitting down to work with your child so if only we could get dr baum in front of every parent and teacher to talk about writing i know that our students would both grow and enjoy their learning experiences in a much more authentic and deeply satisfying way she has a long and distinguished career and you can read her full bio on the website i'm not going to go into all those details you can read all about her there but i am so grateful she agreed to be with us here tonight and i'm really looking forward to what she has to share and the question and answer session that will follow take it away dr bomb well it's great to be here and i love to talk about this subject uh and it's one that troubles everybody it's a product it's productivity in general specifically writing that is particularly challenging. 5:24 And why is particularly challenging is because schools seem to be putting more and more emphasis on writing school has become a secret language arts lesson and that's not good for kids who can't write because it's everything is about writing and uh things that they might love to do in school i go to science class to do experiments they get bogged down because of all the writing that's required so i'll i want to share the screen and see if we can find this powerpoint oh i find i that's my biggest dilemma i can never find them again and i like to word it slightly differently gifted but won't produce strategies to ignite the reluctant writer and it is really about motivation uh mostly because writing if it's difficult will continue to be difficult people who don't write well it takes an awful lot of practice and an awful lot of grit and determination to just sit down and write even great writers get writer's block and can't always write writing is a challenging activity for these kids. 6:55 If you would like this presentation you can take a screenshot i think you could have that tiny url and then you could have this presentation just wait a second okay um let's talk about why writing is difficult for many many children and and when writing is difficult for kids who are really really bright why is that well writing is very complex note-taking for instance is one of the most complex skills that there is in school and let's see how complicated it is so in order to be able to write take notes initiate writing sustain writing kids have to just activate and sustain attention during the sessions where they're brainstorming and beginning writing they have to understand what's being asked of them what is the writing prompt what is it that the teacher is requiring they need to have some knowledge about that topic they need to figure out for whom is this writing who is the audience they have to remember the rules that remember grammar how to have a topic sentence in a paragraph they have to be able to organize the multitude of ideas in a linear way they need to be able to use visual spatial skills to create the margin and the spacing and all the parts and the grapho motor skills of writing holding the pen getting the lines put the letters in the proper place proper size proper space and then there's spelling and punctuation so for kids who have a one-track mind who can think about one thing at a time you can see that the frustration levels would be high. 9:01 They have these amazing ideas and this brilliant knowledge and thoughts and they can't get it down on paper now the other reason that writing is challenging for these kids i think is what happens when they can't produce what's expected and what happens when you can't produce what's expected in school and that translates to so many different things and these i'm going to touch upon four things that really can happen when kids can't produce. The teacher questions ability we've all been there when the teacher has asked your kid to write something and it comes up lousy and maybe it's a timed writing test and what do they say to you your kid's not really gifted you know your child doesn't really have the ability that they should be writing at if they had you know advanced thinking. I'm sure you've heard that lots of times and that hurts parents know their kids are bright they know what their kids can tell them and what their teachers see is this lousy product that's supposed to show how much the child knows and then they judge the child sometimes as lazy or dumb or incapable of learning so bright students who cannot produce what the teacher expects and what they expect because they're very critical at themselves and self-aware they know that they're smart and they can't get their ideas down so so this lack of production just is so frustrating to them so the first thing that happens is maybe the teacher or someone blames the kid or labels the kid. 10:45 The second thing that can happen when the child can't produce they set academic goals that don't match their talents and ambitions how many times have we heard i don't want to go to college i want to work at best buy i want to work at starbucks not that there's anything wrong with that but when you know a kid has the potential for so much more because of their what they're interested in or what they like to do and they don't want to pursue it because their confidence got shot and they don't see themselves as potential learners it's it's it's terrible i've seen this time and time again and i've had a student say to me don't tell me i can go to college because i know i can't i can't write and that's what they want in college and so bright kids are limiting themselves because of this this inability to to write or to be able to produce in ways that are acceptable uh to others. The third thing that happens when they can't produce is is that kids um become anxious they develop anxiety and kids just don't want to go to school they don't want to go to writing workshops and they'll begin to have stress headaches and all sorts of avoidance behaviors because of writing. The last thing and probably the worst um is if i really i can't produce what i know and all these things have happened to me i just begin to take this out on myself and i develop negative beliefs about who i am and what i can do and and so this is the core of so many of the kids we work with who have this potential and who are such amazing thinkers and such great problem solvers and they can't produce and so all these things happen. 12:57 So what i'm going to do today is share some strategies and ideas and i've organized my presentation around what i call four major principles that i think are critical to working with reluctant writers we need to ensure that there's a purpose for their writing and that they write for an authentic audience and that writing makes a difference they need to understand that a reason that i am in this person's life for communicating with them because if i can't tell somebody what i know why would i work so hard to get this down so we have to make sure that the writing is purposeful and that's that's really principle number one. Principle number two is that we need to build their self-efficacy and that means first respecting what they can do and respecting their strengths and using those strengths to help them in their writing processes and also we need to give them control because for kids like this who who cannot do what is is typical in schools um having control is is really critical because it allows them to show you what they know. Principle three is that we have to reduce the barriers that come from their asynchronous development and so that means we have to give them the tools we have to allow them to use assistive technology or or different ways to um to to be able to communicate their their messages and we need to make sure that they're doing that in as many different ways as possible. Principle four is really involves instructing their writing supporting their skills and building an awareness of what's going on when they're writing and teaching them what metacognition is so they can begin to monitor how their brains work and figure out what to do when it doesn't work for them. 15:04 Okay so let's go through these one at a time and let's start with making sure that there's a purpose for their writing and that when they write it makes a difference to somebody or something or some project or some activity that they're involved in and real writing should be authentic and purposeful should have a real-life reason and i think we need to teach kids that writing is a form of communication it's just a way to share your ideas and your thoughts with others and so they need to think about writing as a a tool for communication there are so many ways to write so that you can share your feelings and your knowledge and learn more information and so first in this goal purposeful writing they need to understand the value of communicating and just using writing as a tool. One of the things i think we need to do is help kids know that their audiences are more than their teacher because that's usually who they're writing for it's like they're writing for that teacher and they have to get it right and if they have a wider audience of people who are interested in their topics or interested in who they are or what they're doing or you know kids when they start talking about what they love people are interested in them if they start talking about what they do people are interested in them so they can blog they can post they can create uh websites they can do all these different things that are purposeful to them and kids love it when their when their thoughts make a difference they like it when they can um when people send them messages about you know oh that's really interesting tell me more. I found that in one of the schools i worked in we had pen pals from a retirement home that lived across the street from the school and these kids would write letters back and forth with with adults who were retired who really didn't have too much to do during the day and they would write to these kids and the kids would write back and this was just fabulous because they wanted to write these people because these people gave them feedback you know and the feedback was uh it was positive and encouraging and so so we really need to think about for these kids the purpose of writing is to to communicate and we need to make sure that they have a way to to communicate with real people. 18:01 Another thing that's really important is that we need to integrate writing with things kids are really really interested in and so if they're passionate about something if they're interested in something we need to hook writing into those those topics and so that will um will make the writing easier so some strategies some ideas that we've used um we want to make sure that the writing is tied to their passions and interests so what you would see is kids writing about pokemon or kids writing about space exploration whatever it is that the kid is interested in whenever we assign writing we want to see how can we connect what we're asking them to write about to something that they really really find interesting and rewarding. Another strategy is to make writing social so kids are writing collaboratively with other kids and when you do that you reduce the amount of writing each child does but they get the whole topic across so it makes it easier because if they're working with a partner or a group of kids they're only responsible for their part and we need to make sure that the parts they're going for are shorter and are parts that they're very interested in and i think that's going to be more motivating for them because they're not in it alone. I think this is a great picture in terms of writing this is not putting words down on paper this was a book that was written by children and they did research on it and they created a performance about ecosystems and they invited all the parents to this performance and they talked about the different ecosystems and the different habitats and what's involved in that and that was their product so writing could be a script it could be program notes it could be a letter inviting people to come to a performance so there's all different kinds of writing that they can do within a project like this that will allow them to use writing for authentic purposes. 20:04 We need to encourage kids to write from authority which means they write from what they know so when kids are writing from what they know and what they're interested in they don't have to worry about all those frontal lobe higher order skills for putting things together and sequencing and putting it all in order they know what they know and it makes it easier for them to write and so if a kid really likes animals and we can use animals in different ways in their writing it's going to make writing easier for them because they're going to be writing from authority. I think another thing that we can do is whenever we work with kids we want to make sure that when we're helping them with their writing we're not doing all the questioning we're taking turns with questions so we ask a question they ask us a question we respond to their question and then we answer we ask another question so we're trying to model what dialogue is all about and i think that's important too in terms of writing so we want to make sure that they're learning how to ask questions when they're writing and as a parent and as a teacher we can we can give our answers the way we would want a reader to get an answer and and and demonstrate the writing and and we can say you know it would be really good if you put in a question here because i'd like to know more about that so we can ask them a question then they learn how to ask themselves questions when they're writing so writing will be that kind of reciprocal uh interaction. If a child has a question at school if a child um would like to know something uh that question the child's authentic questions could be the start of a writing assignment so i worked with um some middle school kids a while back and they were studying the civil war and there was nothing about the civil war that interested them at all and i started having them ask questions well i want to know about medicine i want to know about weapons i want to know about food you know and so so what we did we took their questions and we made those their research topics so um so they had an authentic question something they wanted to know and they got to research it and report on it. 22:23 The second principle that i that is really critical with these kids is respecting their strengths and putting them in control and we start with respecting their strengths and letting them share what they're interested in and letting them talk and so oral storytelling is is something that we need to make sure happens with all these kids and we need to honor their oral storytelling and that might be one way that they share their knowledge is is orally and we should give credit to that and we shouldn't say well you have to put it down on paper because lots of these kids can tell you wonderful things and so this is a ted talk on storytelling because there is an art to telling a story and and i really encourage you to look at this because it's it's wonderful. I think asking kids to use their special interests to persuade others or to inform others is is a great thing for them to do i think it's i know a kid who is an expert on world war ii and he's about 10 years old and he read everything he could about world war ii and he wanted to set up a museum so so his his his first thing he had to do is write a business plan to his parents about why he wanted to do this and he had to try to get his parents to see that this was a worthwhile venture and so he had to use persuasive writing and and he was happy to write because it gave him a reason to uh create this museum so he he wrote this whole plan and it was beautifully done because it came from him and it came from what he knew so then he actually got it and he set up this museum and he kept records of all the people who came and what their feedback was and so you you know writing was easy for him because it was purposeful and it was something that he wanted to do. We need to let kids express themselves creatively and i'm going to show you that this is something that one of my students did um he wrote it this is about bats and he used poetry to talk about the different um topics on bats so on echolocation he wrote a poem on habitats he wrote a poem um and so instead of writing a report he was writing poetry and this this child's poetry was delightful and we were so thrilled with his with his project and he was an amazing writer but would never write reports. 25:02 Putting students in control means that they can decide how to organize their ideas as long as there's a logical order to them i've seen kids use different forms of graphic organizers and different kids use different organizers and lots of times these graphic organizers are given to them but if you allow the child to make their own graphic organizer they're developing those frontal lobe skills and so how would you like to organize this information and let them figure out on their own what what type of tool to use or strategy to use so i wouldn't say to all the kids you're all going to you're all doing reports so you're all going to use a five paragraph essay structure no you all have different abilities you all have different ways of thinking so if i ask you to write a report how are you going to organize it and then we can give them some choices that they could use or they could come up with something totally on their own but if we want to put them in control and teach them to to uh to think we need to teach them how they organize their own information. Here's a student who had to write about um something a book a chapter book that he read and he decided to organize it with a plot roller coaster so this this little picture here is one way to organize information and so he wrote it as if he was at a theme park and he talked about lining up to get on the roller coaster and in line he was explaining the book and what the setting was and as the roller coaster started the plot went up and up and up then it came to a climax and then he got all the way to the end and it it was it was an it wasn't a five paragraph essay but it was a very creative way to summarize a book and he was in control of it and he he came up with the idea himself and the teacher was so delighted with what he did that he read it to the whole class. 27:10 This is another one somebody else gave me this is a fourth grader um she was from a school in philadelphia and she also was organizing information and um she had to do a a study of scientists she picked barbara mcclintock who was a geneticist and she organized it the same way that barbara mcclintock organized all her genetic studies so she made a corn plant and she had each piece of corn a different color and each different color represented a different chapter in her life this was about her birth this was about her marriage this was about the work she did so she that was the way she decided to organize the report and each piece of corn was a different color and it corresponded to different aspects of barbara mcclintock's life that's pretty creative. Here's a student who was interested in political cartoons so he wrote his whole chapter book report using political cartoons not words so putting kids in control means that they get to make these choices and these are authentic choices and we need to respect that and and just see how creative they can be and i i think it's it's not always that i hate this it's that i want to do it my way so if i do it your way i'm going to show you i don't want to do it your way by not doing it so we need to make sure that there are there are times when they do get to get it across in their own way. 28:36 Here's a sixth grader who wrote what he wrote is a whole it was actually a picture book on the digestive system and he went through the whole digestive system and he made a fabulous picture book with with beautiful pictures of organs and then a little bit about it and that was his picture book so the product it's writing there's plenty of writing here it took probably more time to do than to write a boring essay or a boring report but it was a lot of fun so putting students in control is what it's all about. Now when kids can't produce and they can't meet those expectations you know that writing is the you know the tool for learning one of the things we have to understand is that these kids are asynchronous and what does asynchronous development mean well it means that they're very very bright in some areas of their thinking and their intellectual development and they're not that good in other areas so some kids can have amazing ideas but they can't hold a pen or spell or punctuate or do any of that and so what we need to do is is understand that that the tools for writing are not there yet but the thinking skills are there so we bypass the things that are difficult for them and we give them assistance with those things and we allow them to develop their ideas first before we ask them to worry about what the product is going to look like. I think this was said to me once by a kid you you you you just don't like what i have to say because you're always correcting my grammar and punctuation so i'm not going to tell you anything and i think that's such a powerful statement because kids say you know when i write down what i i think and i get it back and it's all red marks all over it um that's telling me you don't care what i have to say you just want me to spell and punctuate and do all this. 30:37 So we have to understand as as teachers and as parents that you need to find out what your kids know and appreciate it you know don't read their writing to correct the grammar and punctuation and spelling read it to find out what they know and if the product is so bad you can't read it just say read it to me so i can hear what it is you want me to know and then once you get to that then you can work on the other stuff so so the first thing is is to that we have to do is show respect for ideas over correctness because if we do that then kids will be more willing to write so our goal is to say here are your strengths you have amazing ideas here here are the places where it's more difficult and let's work on the difficult pieces separately when it doesn't get in the way of your producing and sharing your amazing thoughts. So we want to reduce the barriers we want to bypass these deficits so that the student can show their knowledge and and feel productive so some of the ways we can reduce the barriers is that we allow for dictation we allow the kids to dictate their stories and their reports to someone else lots of times parents um can can be scribes and take the dictation and teachers can and older children older siblings can and and kids can dictate into into programs and the ipad the ipad is a great great tool for dictation because you just have to open up email or notes and you press that little microphone and the kid starts talking and what they say goes down in writing and then you can work on it because it's there we want to make sure that we're allowing assistive technology so there are programs like co-writer that can help them with word prediction so as they're spelling a word it gives them some choices about what the word is going to look like there's software programs now that can correct grammar for them software programs like grammarly or you know there's autocorrect there's spell check so there's so many programs that can help them with this. 32:53 We also need to sometimes adjust the writing tasks and so we need to look at the writing task that we're assigning and maybe reduce them in length or maybe don't grade everything the kid writes just pick certain pieces that you're going to uh grade and look at the quality of those but um there are some writing tasks where you're just checking to see what the kid knows you don't have to worry about the spelling or the correctness or anything else you're just seeing um what the kid is able to uh articulate and so i think we need to look at the tasks and we need to look at the purpose of the task if the task is to see if the kid understands the concept then we don't worry about the spelling and the grammar and the punctuation if the task is to produce a narrative with good punctuation and grammar then maybe we shorten it or we look at one aspect of it. Another thing we can do is provide them with a checklist so they can self-monitor their writing we have a lot of kids who say i'm done and they haven't done one quarter of what they need to do to make their writing acceptable so we have to have a checklist so that they understand what good writing is and they can check off did i do this yes did i do this yes did i do this yes okay i'm done so putting some kind of a checklist there which tells them and that's going to help build their metacognition it's going to help them also know what good writing is i'm going to develop their awareness and that's what my fourth principle is all about. First of all we need to have writing instruction be writing workshops where there's mini lessons and we model and we teach and then they practice and we discuss what they did and it's not writing writing writing and everything has to be perfect so i really believe in this writing workshop approach where they work on certain pieces in depth until they become perfect and other things they just they practice they get feedback and they try some more. 35:05 We need to teach them to make choices about their writing so i i think that um we need to teach them to make choices about how they organize it we need to make let them make choices about what they write on so we have to teach them how to think for themselves and how to to to realize that there are choices in writing and that they're going to have to make those choices and sometimes the choices they make don't work out well so we have to give them plenty of opportunities to make those choices and learn by making their choices. Another thing we need to do is monitor their own writing processes so if we're going to build self-efficacy one of the things we need to do is to have kids understand what their strengths are what the writing process is all about and how they write so we want them to understand what a first draft is what a rough draft is we want them to know when they do their best writing do they do best writing if they talk about it first or do they do better when they draw a picture first or do they do better when they just start writing so we need to help them understand how they write best so they can become more strategic in their own approach to writing and i think that we can help kids all different ages kindergarten you can start asking kids you know so how do you when you start telling a story how do you how do you think about your stories and just get them to be aware of how they how they produce. 36:36 We also need to have discussions about and conferences with kids about their writing so we need to sit down with kids and we need to say you know what did you want me to know after i read this what was the most important thing i should know and listen to what they say and then say did i understand that tell me more because you know i kind of got confused there and and walk them through editing based on on your reaction as a reader so we need to have these conversations with kids we also need to teach them about audience and purpose so if you're writing for your your peers you know a kid in your classroom you might write it differently if you're writing for a teacher and so understanding how to tailor your message and your style based on who your audience is who's going to be reading it we need to teach kids about what makes a good lead for a story what makes a good opening paragraph we need to teach them transitions we need to teach them lots of things about grammar and all that and one way we can teach that is through through mentor texts so if we just say to kids you know you need a good lead and you need to start with action that's one thing but if we give them 10 leads or five leads in books that they all know that are interesting and then say which one of these leads do you think is best and let them discuss it with each other and vote on it then they become aware of what good writing looks like we can do that with characters we can do that with showing not telling we can do it with punctuation we can do it with so many different things and and that's the way we learn i think mentor texts are the best way to learn writing you know you can have a writing book and it's going to have specific things you're supposed to teach but if you have a lot of books and you have you know and these books could be picture books or they could be chapter books whatever it is and you let kids make judgments on what's good and what makes it good they become strategic and aware of what good writing is all about. 38:47 The other thing we need to do is is that we all need to teach ourselves to become better observers of kids and so we need to look at the student work and and figure out what's getting in the way of their writing what seems to be the problem what behaviors do they engage in during writing time do they sharpen their pencil 10 times before they start do they you know go to the bathroom do they do they start arguments with kids around them i mean you know kids have so many avoidance strategies so let's document those and let's see what patterns are there and and that will tell us something about the kids. I think also we need to not wait for them to fail before we do something so many people want a psychological because the kid can't write well guess what the diagnosis is going to be dysgraphia or an executive function issue and you're going to pay thousands of dollars to find this out when you could just support the kid from the beginning so so we really need to say you know what we need to reduce the barriers for this kid because if we do that he'll show us what he knows and so we need to make sure that we are not waiting for failure before we do something. 39:54 If you're a parent you want to make sure that you advocate for your children and you attend these iep or 504 meetings and that you you make sure that the plans are realistic and uh doable in your children's classroom um i had a woman write to me last week saying my child keeps getting zeros because he can't turn his homework in on time and um his iep says that his grades should be computed on mastery of work submitted and not unsubmitted work and i can't get the school to do this and that's just so so frustrating because the the adults are supposed to be looking at what the kid can do and working from there and so it's just it's really hard if they keep getting zeros and failing at school and you go there because of their asynchronous development and you keep saying you know he should be getting the grades for what he does that should be on his iep and i said go back and revisit that because maybe you need to put it in writing a different way because it's not if the school can't understand it then they're not they're going to be there and the kid's going to continue to have self-doubts and negative feelings. So what i'm saying is that we really need to become better advocates and if you can afford it hire an advocate to be with you in these meetings because sometimes they're they're very helpful in in making sure that what's supposed to be done can be done and also they can give you they can interpret what's going on if you don't understand. 41:37 We need to give kids time you know i i think that we need to understand that kids are not going to be good writers right away it takes a lot of practice we need to persist with what we're doing and we can't give up and i think that really helps when you celebrate every step forward and and look for for things that they've done and and celebrate that. So i think what i'd like to do now is i'd like to just see if there are any questions because i've talked for a while and um i i hope this has been helpful and um what i'm just going to pull up the chat and see if there are any and uh kelly and abby you might want to help with this because i i know that i talked fast so feel free to unmute yourselves. 42:32 Yeah i am unmuted um there have been so many wonderful comments as you've been going and so many thank yous and i think also people are appreciating the emphasis on motivation and purpose but we've got a couple of questions and so um just want to make sure we get to a few of these so someone asked about a student who has a lot of creative ideas doesn't want to write them down even when dictation and speech to text are offered do you have any suggestions for the student who really is very blocked even with all these assistive technology or even dictation. Yes i think you that we have to be respectful of what the child wants to do and um i think if the child has an interest in just sharing their ideas and thoughts orally that's fine that's absolutely fine but i think we need to understand what is it that we really want the child to know how to do and if writing is is what we want the child to do then we need to figure out ways to motivate them to want to write and i think starting with their interest and starting with giving them control is is really critical i know a young man who would not write at all unless it was unless he could type it so he would only use a computer so i i think this is what i mean by we need to give kids control and we need to figure out you know does the medium make a difference some kids don't like to write in a notebook they like to write on index cards some kids like to have digital writing only i mean everybody has their their little quirks and so i think we have to be respectful of that and and figure out what it is that this child is willing to to to do but you're not going to force a kid who won't write to write so what i would do is i would say okay well for right now let's not write let's put writing aside and let's see what you're really good at you know and let's see if we can link writing to that. 44:43 I saw i saw a kid this was amazing um he's in middle school and he wouldn't write anything he'd write like two words that's all he would write but he came up with this whole plan to to run a fundraising campaign for a school in the navajo nation and he wrote in his head this whole business plan about why his his peers should help him raise the money and and he he went to the principal of his school and he sat down with this principal and and he explained the whole process in such detail that the principal had her secretary take notes because he would not write and the secretary took notes and typed them up and gave them to this child and so but this child was able to tell her and he he was able to write in his head but he was not comfortable putting it on paper and i said you know at some point he's going to want to write this out himself as he gets more comfortable and and more confident and he has more successes but there's no reason to push that if he can find other ways to do it so i would just say fine i'm putting writing aside and i'm i'm respecting what you're good at so let's figure out what you're good at and then from there we'll start linking it to writing but i need to i need to respect where you are right now. 46:16 I love that advice um and this is actually the parent who posted that question has a comment she says i have one of these kids who has writer's block even with assistive technology and she says i am totally sold on your ideas about motivation so i think that's great um i wanted to also there's another question about can you share more ideas about how to connect writing to a student's passion. Okay so this is this is something that i do when i meet kids i talk to them about what they're interested in where it is that they like to do in their free time what they think about what they dream about and so that we get this whole profile of the child and then as we do units of study or as we assign homework or as we assign writing assignments i look for ways to link the writing assignment into what the kid's interested in so um so years ago i had a student who loved baseball only baseball and so we were studying poetry and he was supposed to write a haiku well so i said to him what what is it about baseball that you like you know and he said i said tell me how you feel when when a ball is hit when you're at the game you know and so i learned about what he liked and and then i said well write me a haiku about your feelings when the ball is hit and um and he had these three or four sentences and i said which one's most important and he told me and i said well that's your first line so i had to work with him on taking his ideas and chunking them but he wrote this haiku and it was a beautiful poem that you could just feel the energy and his his response to it so i think i i as the teacher or as the parent we have to do the work and help them link their interest to the task but you gotta know what they're interested in first and if you don't know get to know them and find out. 48:23 I love that um someone was asking and i thought this was another good question um i have a student who's just in the very early phases maybe learning that they are 2e and a parent is worried that they will be asked to do too much writing in school before we can really get the support started um so how do you help if you're in a school that is very writing heavy and you feel like things like a 504 or any support is moving slowly how do you start making those changes to protect the child if the system is moving slowly for getting those accommodations. I think you if it's moving slowly and you um you can certainly have a conversation with a teacher and you can certainly get documentation from other people that what your intuition is is is accurate and have have the teacher send you the writing samples have you look at them because you want to be able to say you know i don't think my child can do this and here's what i think is getting in the way so the more information you can get the more you can advocate so talking to the teacher asking the teacher to share writing samples with you and and saying you know i'd like to look at this because i'm worried about it and if they bring home zeros for for assignments i'd want to know why they're getting zeros and if it's because they're not completing assignments or they're completing assignments but they're so bad and then i want to understand why why is this um you know i i think we need to we need to get enough data so that we can understand what the problem is so when we go to the school and say i want my child to have a 504 plan i want my child to have an iep i can tell you what i'm concerned about and why and if they say well we don't see it then that's a problem and you can you know if if you can afford it i would get a neuropsychological because it's data and data talks and when you go to these meetings you can say well look what it says here and and they can't deny what a neuropsychological says. 50:37 Can i chime in for a second because we've actually gotten a related question a few times that i think is important to answer which is people are asking what if they're in a state that doesn't allow 504s or they're in a private school that has that says no we're not going to do 504s what would you do in that case. Um i would find another school i really would because you know you you put your kid in in an environment where they don't have the supports they need this is not going to get better for them i i really think that if if parents can possibly find a school where the school understands twice exceptionality and has um you know the training and and the knowledge to help these kids i would do that and i'm not saying leave leave public education but if if the school can't provide you with what you need then i think that you have to look for it somewhere else because you you you your child's precious and you want to make sure your child is is going to be successful and i and i would really hate to think that that a child is in a school that can't do it and they're just suffering year after year it takes a toll and so i i would work really hard to try to find a school that that could do it. 52:05 That's that's great advice um the other thing i just wanted to say to that because we do have members in california and we also have members like in wisconsin and other states um where they they are different is you know if if you're in a state that does 504s but your school isn't offering you them you can go above the school you can go to the school district and there are people whose job it is to do 504s so you can bypass the school and go to the district and say this is my child's rights and um i've seen many people be successful doing that but if you're in a state that doesn't even do 504s then you know you have different you have different choices and and um and i would urge you to look at it you know is it the teacher who's willing to work with you regardless or is it that the entire system there doesn't support it and then yes i would agree with susan it's time to start doing your research on what other school options you have. There's a great article that was uh by by megan foley nicpon about how to advocate for your child and it's a it's on the davidson's um it's on davidson's website and it's called something like finding common ground and it's it's really i think you know i i read it to all my my graduates in my graduate program read it because it's the best article on advocacy i've seen and i think it's important to read it so you know how to approach the school and how to work with the school and and do it in a in a way that both of you are comfortable and both of you understand what you're trying to do i think that's i think that's really important. 53:48 Um and um abby do we have you want to help me find some more questions um sure yeah um or should we maybe we should wrap up i don't know what time it is oh well we have a little bit more time so why don't we do a few more questions and um i'll say this i will um we talked before about just really emphasizing the importance of making writing purposeful and i just wanted to let everyone know that later in the week probably on friday we will send out the recording of this session and we'll also send an email with some of the resources that susan has mentioned today so you will not need to screenshot everything so um don't stress about that um so a couple of questions um we have someone who asked we have gifted students with dysgraphia and they say i've been told we'll never be able to write by hand could you kind of share a little bit about your experience working with kids who have dysgraphia. I think dysgraphia is is a really really difficult learning disability because it affects the grapho motor and so we want to make sure that these kids are not always relegated to keyboards and typing but we want to make sure that that they can at least write for short periods of time because in the real world you need to be able to sign your name you need to be able to write a grocery list you need to be able to write a note to someone so i think the occupational therapists have some really good strategies for helping kids write and if if they have severe dysgraphia and we've exhausted everything then i think we need to bypass it and and not just say you'll never be able to write so let's not try i think i think we need to you know every child is capable of writing something and so i think we can work on stamina for writing and we can get them to be able to write more and i i think that that's that's the way i look at it. So you can't always bypass it you know you i mean you can bypass it from when you're you're asking them to show that they know something but you can't bypass it from from life and so i think you need to teach skills in handwriting and i think that occupational therapists have have strategies and i'm not an occupational therapist so i i don't know exactly what they are but but i would say if you feel that your child really has severe dysgraphia i would get them into occupational therapy and and the more practice with handwriting the better they might become unless it's so severe that you know it's really really something that needs to be bypassed all the time but but handwriting even if it's for short periods of time is something they should be able to do. 56:45 You know i'd love to even add to that because i know abby you know this in our daughter's story and i know many parents i talk to from real who have kids with dysgraphia see huge progress with occupational therapy and that consistent use and so i wouldn't i agree with susan i wouldn't just give up on it i think there's an assumption oh you have dysgraphia you'll never write with your hand you know abby you've probably written by hand since before you were three because your dad taught you to handwrite and then you stopped because it was so painful and so challenging but then with some really good occupational therapy and consistent work you know now you'll take notes for for your grad classes and write essays by hand and people are like i don't understand how you have dysgraphia so don't give up keep working on it keep trying i think there's we can make progress there. Do you take notes and everything in class so that's amazing but it's still painful yes but you can do it right yeah okay that's impressive that's good that you you could do it there you go okay so i think that's a that's a great example. 57:55 Um and i want to make sure we get to this question because a couple people have been kind of thinking about this um so someone asked how how should we determine if a child is in that kind of phase of like practicing the basics of writing or if they're in a place where they actually should be demonstrating their knowledge through writing like what phase should you be kind of thinking about kind of holding a standard or where should you still be doing like more practice without the standard. That's a great question and i think that's that's a judgment call i think that um when the child can show you that they are able to use the writing skills that you've been teaching with fluency and then i think you need to work on something else but um but i i think that there are certain times when you're working on a specific writing skill you work on that skill and you keep working on it until they get it and the only way to know they get it is that they can do it with with ease so when you're looking at something and they're doing something that they seem to be pretty good at that's the time that you can say okay now i want to see you do it i want you to show me you know and so i would say don't grade the work that they do as they're learning but once they've got the skill then then you can grade it so i think there's a difference between formative assessment and summative assessment formative assessments are the things we do when we're practicing and we're and we're trying to get better and we get feedback but we don't we don't like if your child was in soccer and they're trying to figure out how to dribble the ball they're not going to get graded on their dribbling they're just going to be coached and they're practicing and they're trying to do better and once they can do it then they're out there on the field using the skill so i think it's the same thing writing we practice we try to get better we get feedback we get coaching but once we know how to do something we can show you that we know how to do it and then you might grade it so i think i think that's the that's the way to look at it it's a judgment call and it's based on how well they do when they're when they're practicing. 1:00:12 Love it um i know there's so many great questions that have come in um and i want to make sure we kind of have time for one last question if that's okay um so someone asked you mentioned a scribe as an option for dictation and i think that's amazing in the long run what about in the short term when maybe even the parent is getting super frustrated because it's taking a really long time to sit there and scribe so do you have any advice for parents who are getting frustrated because it's it's taking 45 minutes to scribe a paragraph what how can we kind of help with that. I i think that that um you take a break the parent can say you know this is taking a really long time and so i'm going to we're going to do half of it and then we can do the other half later or you know what i need a break so i'd like you to finish this the other way so so i think the parents need to if if it's getting really really frustrating and i think a lot of times parents get pulled into homework it's like the kid says i can't do this and the parent does it or helps the kid way too much and so i think the parent needs to set boundaries you know i will i will help you for this much time and after that you you're on your own or you need to figure out something else so i i think the parent has to say i'm willing to do this but i'm not willing to do this all the time and i'm not willing to you know spend an hour working on this i'll spend 20 minutes and if you can get it done in 20 minutes fine if not then then you need to figure out what else to do and then you write a note to the teacher and say you know this was a real struggle tonight and it took you know 20 minutes and we only got this much done and um i'd like to know if there's another way that he could finish this or if this is good enough because right now this is all i have time for so i think it's really important that parents um recognize that this is their their child's responsibility it's not the parent's responsibility and so the parents need to advocate and say you know i'm willing to help for this much time or i'm willing to help with this but i'm not going to do the whole thing. 1:02:23 And i think that's great and i've heard you in other settings also share how important it is for parents to to save that relationship with their kids and it sounds like if you're getting overly frustrated it's it becomes it's not helpful for the child it might actually make things worse so i i love that and i want to add to to this too if anybody has the means to hire someone else to help with the writing that can be a good way because then you're not the scribe and and hopefully that person is is really skilled at it and they'll have some techniques that are going to be better than a parent could do and then you don't have that parent-child i told you to do the homework issue so i i think that's that's another another idea. I love that and and i think i saw one other question come in about a specific case about like a middle schooler who's who's like really struggling with note-taking for science and this actually made me think of something i wanted to ask you too because i know you know a lot of these strategies um with a lot of these strategies you're talking to teachers but for parents who might want the teachers to use the strategies what do you recommend or would you recommend that the parent just sends the recording of this to the teacher says hey we saw this great presentation dr bomb did on writing would you mind watching it or what do you think would be the best way for the parent to kind of be able to say i heard all this great stuff but i'm not the teacher like how do i get my teacher involved. Well you might you might ask the teacher do you have 15 minutes where we could meet on zoom and i'd like to share some things that i learned and i think it would be great to share it with you so that we can both be on the same page when we're working with my child and so you know if the teacher says well i don't really have 15 minutes then you can say okay well i'm going to send you this link and you know these are some things that i that i heard and you know i'd like to see if we can make some of these changes so i think you you don't demand the teacher to do anything you just share it and you say you know would you mind taking a look at this because i think some of these ideas might work with with my child and if you're open to it i'd love to have a conversation with you you know is there a good time for us to talk. 1:04:37 For that particular question about the science class do you have one strategy we could share that the parent could bring to the teachers just one easy thing to start with oh god i don't even know what that question was can you remind me of it the child taking notes in the science class and the parents were frustrated because it was i think it was cornell notes and it was taking 10 hours a week so she was losing her love for science so i guess that was the question is how do we start bringing some of these um you know options into these other subject areas right and i i think that i've seen a lot of kids especially engineers and kids who are more visual their notes are visual and they can explain them and they are amazing notes i saw somebody's one kid's note on on some theory and if you allow a lab you know if you can get it down any way you want to get it down there's no reason to say it has to be in words and if you have a different way to express it mathematicians talk to each other in mathematical symbols and they go you could see movie after movie how they're writing on the board and they're pointing these things out i would like a child to be able you know if they have to write their proof if they're writing a math problem on the board with another child and they explain how they did the steps why do they have to put it in verbal writing there's no reason i would say to the teacher it's very important to understand why you're assigning what you're signing so i want to make sure that the child understands how they got the answer and but that so aren't there other ways to explain how you got the answer you didn't say to me i want to know if the child can put explain themselves in writing because if if that's really what you want to know that it has to be in writing you there's no justification for that sometimes things have to be in writing and then there is justification but if writing is to be used to see if the child understands a math problem there's many other ways to understand that math problem and it behooves all of us to say to each other and to teachers what is your objective is your objective that my child learns how to write a story a narrative a descriptive paragraph or is it today's objective that you want to know if they understand population dynamics and in in biology and so if it's to understand the concepts in the unit on population dynamics what are other ways that that child can tell you if it's that i need to see if you can know how to punctuate a conversation well then fine but victor borga even did it in a song so be clear on your objectives and if writing is the objective because you want the child to have a writing skill but if writing's being used to show understanding then there should be alternatives you know and i i think what happened in the case with this family i know is that ultimately the parents talk to the teacher the child was not ready to self-advocate on this topic she's been self-advocating on a lot of other topics so the parents talked to the teacher and the teacher was so responsive and said no parent had ever come and talked about the challenge before and they that she knew that in the other classes they had stopped using this this note-taking system so i think sometimes two parents are are afraid to have a good conversation with with teachers and sometimes the teachers never heard the feedback and that's not always true of course that's not always true but i do think it's a valuable thing for people to know is it's we can sometimes be afraid to feel like we're going to ruffle someone's feathers but there's a way to talk about it with a teacher that is productive for everyone yeah i i think that if um there are shorter pieces of writing if a child uh is in a class and and one of the things that it might be on a 504 plan or writing it's you know just not reduce the amount of writing that that child needs to have during any semester is a good strategy so that don't sign off on the plan unless you have some control over how much writing and a plan that was used in a school in in prince george's county maryland that that they weighed this child's work differently he got much more points for projects than he did for the writing assignments so it favored his strength and and i guess another one i just thought i'd mention see you know i i was in a presentation about a universal design for learning and there was a college level class where the teacher had each person share their notes once during the semester and everyone was a little nervous about doing it but the what it showed everyone was just different ways how different people do notes in different ways and it gave people new ideas about how they might do their notes and they learned a lot of fun ways to take notes whether it was sketch noting or uh whatever it was and i thought that was a super interesting idea too and then no one feels locked into one style and a lot of our kids do better by recording you know there's there's that pen that scribe pen that where they take notes and that they don't get the note down the pen is recording and so if you want to know what the teacher said you might write just one word and when this the pen then will play back what the teacher said at that word so they it's like note taking and then you have that backup it just kind of gives you like a bookmark to the part of the lecture the teacher was giving so it's 8 27 and i want to honor your time and everyone else's and i think we have time for one more question and then um if people want to stay on with those of us from real we can stick around for a little bit susan if you need to run that's okay um so i think y'all or abby has one more question i can ask you um someone mentioned this and you uh brought it up as well um about 504 and iep accommodations that you've seen people ask for related to writing yes uh what else do you recommend other than reducing the amount of writing are there others you've seen. 1:22:22 Uh well i i think that i would make sure that on an iep or 504 plan i i would say i would separate um when we're developing writing skills this is what i would like and when the child is being asked to explain understand something in a content area they are to be given a choice but what it's about then if they're learning they need to write whatever they're writing then we want to make sure that perhaps it's the length can be reduced or they put instead of producing 10 pieces of writing that they could take one piece of writing and perfected over time so it's a beautiful piece when they're finished well every kid would be lucky if you were their teacher i'm lucky that you are are my teacher so thank you for for teaching and for being here with us tonight i know a lot of you are here because you thought there was going to be a magic way to get your kid to write you know and it's about motivation it's about getting them to love telling you what they know and it and and communicating think communication and think of all the ways you communicate if you know even if there was a family newsletter electronic news that are a magazine and they were the editors who went around the whole family those little articles are easier you know and they could be setting it up and you know there's so many ways that we can you that could be excited about it they would be more willing to do the harder work good luck well i feel like we all need to like take our cells off of mute and clap and thank you so much thank you so much the chat has had just comment after comment about how useful this was and how much people plan to send this out to all their teachers and their schools so and i am going to stop the recording now okay

S low processing speed affects every part of a child's life; however, most people know little about it beyond perhaps a score on the WISC test. REEL hosts educational therapist Marcy Dann to learn where processing speed is used in daily life and how it affects routines, academics, socializing, and emotions for 2e learners. (transcript below) Dr Marcy Dann gave a talk for REEL about Slow Processing Speed and the 2e Child . Here is a writeup of the event. Unraveling the Challenges and Triumphs of Slow Processing Speed in Education In the realm of education, the concept of processing speed is often misunderstood, yet its impact can be profound, particularly for twice-exceptional learners. Marcy Dann, Ed.D., a seasoned educational therapist with over three decades of clinical practice, recently shared her insights on this topic in a compelling talk hosted by REEL. Dr. Dann's expertise shed light on the complexities of slow processing speed, offering valuable perspectives on how it affects learners and how educators and parents can support them. Understanding Slow Processing Speed Dr. Dann commenced her talk by defining slow processing speed as the delayed ability to take in information, process it, and respond effectively. Contrary to common misconceptions, slow processing speed does not correlate with lower intelligence. Instead, it reflects the unique cognitive profile of individuals who may perceive and interpret information at different rates. Understanding this is crucial, especially in educational settings where the pressure to perform quickly can overshadow the depth of a student's intelligence. Quick processing speed often leads to tasks feeling automatic, while slower speed may necessitate more effort. However, this disparity does not diminish the intellectual capabilities of individuals with slower processing speeds. The Impact of Slow Processing Speed The impact of slow processing speed extends beyond academic spaces. Parents and educators are familiar with its demands, particularly regarding writing tasks. Completing assignments within time constraints can pose significant challenges for students with slower processing speeds, often leading to emotional and behavioral issues. Moreover, slow processing speed permeates daily routines at home, influencing activities such as morning and nighttime routines, as well as mealtimes. For example, a child may find it challenging to transition from one task to another, such as moving from getting dressed to brushing teeth, within the allotted time. As a result, the morning routine becomes stressful for both the child and the parents, leading to frustration and tension.  The effects ripple into social interactions and emotional regulation capacity, highlighting the interconnectedness between cognitive abilities and emotional well-being. Dr. Dann emphasized that by recognizing and understanding these challenges, parents and educators can implement strategies to support the child, such as providing extended time allowances, breaking down tasks into manageable steps, and offering verbal or visual prompts to facilitate transitions. Recognizing Strengths and Talents Dr. Dann underscored the importance of recognizing students' strengths and talents beyond their processing speed. She urged educators and parents to focus on nurturing these strengths and accommodating processing speed challenges to foster a positive learning environment by prioritizing understanding and confidence-building over the end-product. Strengths-Based Approach: Dr. Dann shared examples of students who struggled with slow processing speed but excelled in creative arts. Despite facing challenges in tasks requiring rapid information processing, these students demonstrated remarkable creativity and originality in art-related projects. By acknowledging and nurturing these talents, educators were able to boost students' confidence and self-esteem, providing a counterbalance to the frustrations caused by processing speed challenges. Accommodating Processing Speed Challenges:   Another strategy involves implementing accommodations such as extended time allowances and alternative assessment formats for students who struggle with processing speed during timed tests and assignments. By tailoring assessments to accommodate students' processing speed while still assessing their understanding and knowledge, educators help mitigate the negative impact of processing speed challenges on academic performance. Emphasis on Understanding and Growth:   Dr. Dann emphasized the importance of prioritizing understanding and growth over the outcome of tasks. By celebrating students' growth and emphasizing the journey of learning rather than just the finished product, educators foster a positive learning environment where students feel valued and supported despite their processing speed challenges. Confidence-Building Strategies:   Lastly, Dr. Dann discussed various strategies for building confidence in students with slow processing speed. These include providing specific, affirming feedback that acknowledges students' efforts and progress rather than solely focusing on areas of difficulty. By praising students for their resilience, perseverance, and problem-solving skills, educators can instill confidence and self-belief in their ability to overcome challenges related to processing speed and succeed academically and emotionally. Dr. Dann stressed that learning should not solely revolve around the end-product but should emphasize understanding and confidence-building. By prioritizing process over product, educators can empower students to embrace their unique cognitive profiles and thrive academically and emotionally. Non-Negotiables for 2e Learners Dr. Dann outlined several non-negotiable factors for all twice-exceptional (2e) learners, in particular those with slower processing speed, across different environments, emphasizing the importance of recognizing students' strengths and accommodating their unique cognitive profiles. Here's a breakdown of the non-negotiables for 2e learners discussed by Dr. Dann: Intellectual Environment: Authentic and Meaningful Tasks Dr. Dann stressed the significance of providing authentic and meaningful tasks with real-world applications for 2e learners. Engaging tasks that connect to students' interests and passions can increase their motivation and willingness to participate in learning activities. Creative choice and options for accessing the curriculum are essential components of the intellectual environment. Students should have the opportunity to choose between different materials, formats, or approaches to learning, allowing them to engage with the content in ways that suit their learning preferences. Social Environment: Sense of Belonging and Role Clarity In social learning environments, such as classrooms or group settings, 2e learners need to feel a sense of belonging and understand their roles as social contributors. A ssigning specific roles within group activities, such as researcher, p ractical manager, or note-taker, can help students with diverse abilities contribute meaningfully to collaborative tasks. Establishing rapport between teachers and students fosters a supportive atmosphere where students feel respected and valued. Emotional Environment: Psychological Safety and Acceptance of Mistakes Creating a psychologically safe environment where students feel comfortable expressing joy in learning and making mistakes is crucial for emotional well-being. Students with slow processing speed may feel sensitive about their learning pace and may compare themselves unfavorably to their peers. Cultivating a culture of acceptance and celebrating cognitive strengths while acknowledging challenge areas helps build students' self-confidence and resilience. Physical Environment: Movement and Sensory Considerations Allowing movement and considering sensory factors in the physical learning environment are non-negotiables for supporting 2e learners. Students should have the freedom to move around and choose seating arrangements that best suit their needs. Paying attention to factors like posture, lighting, and potential distractions helps create an optimal learning environment for students with diverse processing speeds and sensory sensitivities. Process-Oriented Approach: Prioritizing Process Over Product Dr. Dann emphasized the importance of prioritizing process over product in educational settings. Instead of focusing solely on the result or grades, educators should value the learning process and provide opportunities for students to explore, experiment, and engage deeply with the content. Task analysis should consider factors beyond speed and accuracy, considering students' individual strengths, interests, and learning styles. By nurturing and bolstering students' cognitive skills across various environments, educators can support their holistic development and academic success. These non-negotiables underscore the importance of creating inclusive and supportive learning environments that cater to the diverse needs and abilities of 2e learners, allowing them to thrive academically, socially, and emotionally. Strategies for Support Dr. Dann offered a wealth of strategies for supporting students with slow processing speed. These strategies include: Establishing Routines Routines provide structure and predictability, which can help students with slow processing speed navigate daily tasks more efficiently. By establishing consistent routines, students know what to expect and can anticipate transitions, reducing anxiety and overwhelm. Tailoring routines to accommodate individual capabilities, whether through verbal or visual methods, can help students navigate daily tasks with greater ease. Scaffolding Transitions Students with slow processing speed may need more time to shift between activities. Soft transitions with verbal or visual prompts give students advance notice of upcoming changes, allowing them to mentally prepare and transition more smoothly. Providing clues and laying out materials in advance minimizes disruptions and helps maintain focus. Checking in for Accurate Perceptions Ensuring students understand instructions and expectations is crucial for success. Breaking down tasks into manageable steps helps students process information more effectively and prevents feelings of confusion or frustration. By reframing expectations within feasible timeframes, educators can set students up for success and build confidence. Prompting for Task Initiation and Providing Feedback Verbal prompts help students initiate tasks and stay on track, especially when processing speed challenges may cause delays in starting activities. Providing specific feedback acknowledges students' efforts and progress, reinforcing positive behaviors and boosting confidence. Encouraging self-advocacy empowers students to seek support when needed, fostering independence and self-awareness. Language Use Using clear and affirming language reinforces desired behaviors and builds students' self-esteem. By fostering trust and rapport with students, educators create a supportive environment where students feel comfortable expressing their needs and preferences. Promoting self-advocacy empowers students to communicate effectively and advocate for themselves in various situations. Checking in with Students Regularly engaging students in discussions about their learning experiences allows educators to understand their perspectives and challenges. By validating students' experiences and helping them recognize their strengths, educators can build positive relationships and tailor support to individual needs. This collaborative approach promotes self-awareness and resilience, empowering students to overcome obstacles and succeed. Subject Area Accommodations Accommodations such as alternative formats for assignments and extended time allowances ensure equitable access to learning opportunities for students with slow processing speed. Allowing students to demonstrate understanding in ways that suit their strengths promotes engagement and confidence. Providing choices in demonstrating learning outcomes fosters autonomy and encourages active participation in the learning process. Bulleted answers instead of full sentences, permitting dictation of answers, and providing fewer items or more whitespace for written responses are among the accommodations that can support students in demonstrating their learning outcomes effectively. School Recommendations Implementing transitions with extended time allowances and providing support for tasks in middle and high school ensures that students with slow processing speed have the necessary resources to succeed. Accommodations like extended time for standardized testing level the playing field, allowing students to demonstrate their knowledge and skills without time constraints. These recommendations promote inclusivity and support academic achievement for all students. Can Slow Processing Speed Skills Improve? One burning question addressed by Dr. Dann was whether slow processing speed skills can improve. With optimism, she affirmed that improvement is indeed possible through practice and support. By engaging students in activities that challenge their processing speed and offering targeted interventions, educators can help students develop strategies to navigate challenges more effectively over time. Q&A How do you differentiate between slow processing and dysgraphia?  Dr. Dann explained that both involve difficulties with output tasks, with dysgraphia specifically concerning forming letters and numbers, while slow processing speed can affect various tasks. She highlighted the overlap between dysgraphia and slow processing speed, emphasizing the need for a thorough evaluation by a specialist to discern the specific issues. Are there specific assessments families should ask for to sort out ADHD and its impact on processing speed?  Dr. Dann suggested leaving the choice of assessments to the evaluator, advising families to share their observations with the evaluator to help determine which measures to use. Can untreated ADHD affect processing speed, and can pharmacological treatment help improve it?  Dr. Dann shared her observation that students with ADHD who received treatment, including medication, showed improvements in processing speed and oral fluency. However, she emphasized that improvement wasn't solely due to medication and recommended working with medical professionals to find the best approach. How does having superior working memory but low processing speed impact a child, and what kind of support can be provided?  Dr. Dann explained that having superior working memory but low processing speed can make it difficult for students to translate ideas into production. She discussed strategies to support such learners, emphasizing understanding their strengths and challenges and providing appropriate support. Dr. Dann's talk offered a comprehensive exploration of slow processing speed in education. By shedding light on its complexities, providing practical strategies for support, and fostering a deeper understanding of its impact, she empowered educators, parents, and advocates to create inclusive environments where all students can thrive, regardless of their processing speed.

On Tuesday, October 23 we heard from Adrianne Meldrum, the founder and owner of Made for Math (MFM) , an all-online math center focused on serving students with dyslexia, dyscalculia, and math learning disabilities. She is a certified Multisensory Math Instructor through Marilyn Zecher, and holds a Master’s Degree from Bridges Graduate School of Cognitive Diversity. Adrianne spoke to us about how dyslexia, dysgraphia, working memory, and processing speed can impact performance in math. Adrianne also touched on math anxiety, math facts, showing work, and more. We learned about the reasons 2e kids may face challenges at various ages and what parents and schools can do to help. Watch the recording here Adrianne was kind enough to share lots of links and resources with us after her talk, including: Adrianne's recommended resource list: The music playlist referred to in the talk: https://madeformath.com/studying-music/ Equatio: https://www.texthelp.com/products/equatio/ This fun animated GIF: Download this animated GIF here Read the video transcript here 0:08 welcome everyone to 2E math Solutions just in case you're not familiar with real we are a nonprofit that strives to ensure Silicon Valley twice exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent and educator awareness and understanding of solutions that are research-based to help address their needs um and this is an example of one of the ways we do that is these talks 0:27 if you're here you're probably from familiar with 2E but just in case um we Define 2E as students who have both distinguishing strengths High abilities or potential in one or more areas and complex challenges at the same time um such as specific learning disabilities like dyslexia ADHD autism anxiety and others 0:48 and so the 2E students are in this green space they have both the strengths and the challenges at the same time and the way they combine and interact um makes them uh more challenging to to support than some other students 1:07 you can always learn more at real2 e.org we have a topics tool that you can browse all of our past events blog posts and resources on a variety of topics to support two we students 1:14 we have two more upcoming events this season we have our 2E parent B monthly support going and um our executive functioning talk on November 14th that's a really popular one the number one requested topic um and then we will be announcing our spring events shortly 1:29 so you can get all this on our website you can also join our private um Google group where parents ask and answer questions about their students you can also follow us on Facebook Twitter and watch our previous recordings on YouTube 1:50 as I mentioned real is a nonprofit and we do rely on your donations to keep our programming free um so if you enjoy this presentation we would appreciate you supporting us in donation 2:03 and now to intr introduce our speaker for today Adrienne meltam is the founder and owner of made for Math and all online math Center focused on serving students with dyslexia dyscalculia and math learning disabilities she's a certified multisensory math instructor through Marilyn Zer and she holds a master's degree from Bridget Graduate School of cognitive diversity welcome Adrien 2:25 hello everyone I'm so excited to get started okay so let me get my screen going and feel free to drop things in the chat 2:32 thank you for having me Y and Abby I'm so excited we've had this on the books for a long time so it's G to be a lot of fun today um can you just give me a thumbs up that you see everything okay okay great awesome 2:49 okay so thankfully I was sent a bunch of questions that you all had when you registered and I tried to find common themes so this is my attempt today and if I didn't cover something that you were specifically looking for feel free to put it in the chat but also if we don't get to it I am happy to respond to emails and such 3:10 so my plan today is we're going to cover just a little bit of discula it's a huge topic and we don't have quite enough time same with dis graphia but we'll discuss slow processing working memory math back fluency and math anxiety is a big one 3:25 so true discula affects about 6% of school children in a classroom of 30 students that would look like one or two 3:31 often we see students receiving a diagnosis of discal one it might actually be their dyslexia that's impacting it or maybe severe ADHD instead but if they get the diagnosis that's not necessarily a problem because that means more access to accommodations 3:50 so when a student has disc calula typically what we see is the progress in mathematics is painfully slow that's how you know you found a kiddo that has disc calula they struggle to make any kind of real progress 4:04 so I'm going to go over just a few of the Hallmarks that we see students with disc calula struggle with their math facts similar to maybe a student with dyslexia even with PR practice that recall is super poor 4:17 and we also see a total Reliance on Counting as one of their main problem solving strategies which holds them back from progressing in mathematics altogether 4:29 place value is also mystifying to a student with disc calcula they haven't grasped that position means that the number is changing size and magnitude they don't understand how that even works and causes a lot of frustration for them 4:42 they also have no sense if the answers are even correct that they're coming to often we see a poor sense of time they might not even know what 15 minutes feels like or if they have an appointment they're not necessarily sure what time they need to get ready during the day for that o that appointment 4:56 they don't understand how to read the clock or grasp how a calendar works or work with money and their mental math skills are weak and often caused by anxiety and they have to rely on that counting strategy which slows them down 5:14 so my general advice for you because we're so short on time today don't monkey around at the schools hire an expert if your child has a discal culia diagnosis your time is a really important and like I said remediation takes a long time so hire an expert 5:38 um look for a multisensory math specialist that's been trained by Marilyn Zer like myself or David Berg is really popular in California of making math real there's Professor Sharma he's east coast and Dr schrudder she's in Texas 5:57 and I also will have a handout that I'll share with um the ladies here so they can pass that out to you and get it to you it has links to all of these so don't stress about pulling up their names I've got you covered there 6:03 but due to the complexity of the cognitive functions needed to be successful in mathematics I wanted to use a model to help us visualize what's happening in the brain while we're learning this is the information processing model and it's going to help us think through some of the things we're going to talk about today 6:21 and none of the issues that you're probably currently dealing with in mathematics such as dyslexia dyscalculia dysraphia ADHD autism none of that can be addressed in isolation it all has a lot of cognitive overlap everything's integrated 6:36 so today you're going to hear ideas that could help your child in a section that maybe you haven't even considered before 6:42 so let's get started with disg graphia so the truth is we know very little about dis graphia it's still being researched but we do know it can look different in every child from struggling to get their words from their thoughts down onto paper 6:55 but it also can look like struggling to write and form letters and that indicates maybe a struggle with their visual spatial fine motor skills 7:08 and writing is a really complex process right it involves so many skills fine motor spatial perception working memory the orthographic coding the language processing conceptualization and organization to name a few 7:22 so our goal for a student like this would be to increase access so we do that by creating an environment ment where their fine motor skills are not a hindrance 7:28 so we're going to use large box graph paper to do math homework the graph paper you can buy in the store does not have boxes big enough you actually would want to create your own with boxes that are at least a half inch by half inch so the student can put the numbers inside of those boxes 7:53 then we recommend rotating a wide rolled paper now if you look at my camera for a second instead of having it like this rotate it 90° use the columns instead to help students line up their mathematics this helps with organization and keeping place value um in its correct spot 8:17 we recommend that if you're going to help a student who has these issues 16o font or bigger so they can see it clearly and plenty of room for writing 8:24 because we know that their numbers and letters can be different sizes and they need as much space as possible to show their work 8:36 and we also recommend not having more than two problems in a page on a page and shielding that second problem with another piece of paper to limit the overwhelm and the visual information that's coming in 8:49 there's also this super cool software called equatio it works with Google Docs there's an app on your iPad you could get and what's cool about that is even sloppy handwriting can be turned into uh text that is readable 9:01 and so that is an accommodation you could ask for for a student who has disg graphia so that a teacher could accurately uh correct that work and give feedback to the student because they can read the handwriting at this point 9:20 okay and then Hands-On materials if you're working with manipulatives with a student make sure they're bigger they're more chunky uh we like to use a beaded number line with students 9:26 and so if they have dis graphia we use big wooden beads with these students instead of the small pony beads because of the fine motor skills that are involved so handsome materials make sure they're larger in scale 9:43 and a lot of the things that I'm going to be going over also help with this disg graphia so pay attention to those because these are the same recommendations we would use with a student disg graphia but slower processing can impact mathematics greatly 9:56 so when we look a little bit deeper at what's happening happen in the brain we're actively trying to pull this information from short and longterm and use it to help us create a product like math homework 10:07 and so writing those thoughts on paper is actually one of the highest levels of executive functioning that you could be doing and it's super difficult including people like me I really struggle to get my thoughts out 10:20 it may not look like it because of this presentation but I do it took me a lot of time to put this together 10:30 so the goal is let's give these students more think time so many of you might have already asked for extra time on tests but don't be afraid to advocate for more time on assignments or shortened assignments 10:37 and then you could also ask for teachers to uh do an audio recording or a video recording of the lessons at school this helps the student with slower processing speed listen later and turn the playback speed down or turn on those close captioning to help support their processing 11:02 and it's super important when we're using the language of mathematics with these students that we speak at a slower Pace with natural pauses for think time you want to make sure that your language is clear and concise we don't want to clutter it up with too much information talking too quickly 11:20 okay and working memory working memory pulls that information from our shortterm and long-term and can be used to hold up to three or four pieces of information at a time 11:27 you know that moment of panic when you're trying to remember a phone number right and you're saying it back saying it back because there's just too many digits for you to remember that's why because our brain Can Only Hold three or four at a time 11:44 so with working memory we have the inner eye visual information is used here so students with strong visual memory you're going to see them looking up in the sky while they're thinking or down at the ground while they're thinking and that's their inner eye at work 11:54 the inner eye is is used for mental math for understanding magnitude and how big or how small a number is 12:06 and then we have that inner voice which is what is used for using those math facts or the names for the number and trying to dictate those numbers down on paper 12:13 so for the child that may be thinking of the number but struggles to write that down that's a struggle with their inner voice it's weaker in this case 12:26 so what do we do about that we want to scaffold as much as possible this is my favorite tip we call it active subitizing and I will show you what it is here in just a minute 12:37 to subitize means to see suddenly so think of dice patterns Domino patterns tally marks these are organized patterns to help us see quantity 12:48 and then I want you to make nearpoint references or graphic organizers to support the working memory to help students remember what steps are needed to solve and we love using uh graphic organizers that have what we call buttons and I'll show you what that looks like here in just a second 13:08 then you want to chunk information into small bite-sized pieces of information three or four at a time no more than that 13:14 for students doing algebra we want to draw a long line in between solving steps to help the brain think okay I'm finished with this step draw a line now what's next they do that step then they draw a line to help signify I have finished with the processing of this step 13:37 and let's go through my favorite stuff okay active subitizing is when students are building the quantity with Hands-On materials or they're drawing 13:43 and our general guidelines are that you always subitize anything larger than four start with DOT patterns expand to tally marks and that helps with generalizing this idea of quantities to other systems of marking a quantity 14:01 and always tie the symbolic form the numerals of the number to that dot pattern 14:08 so to see what I'm talking about this is a Hungarian 10f frame we use these all the time we think they're a fantastic tool and we prefer these actually over the 10 frames that are very common in schools 14:20 it's such a great way for students to see the quantity and actively subitize and build and so we encourage uh turning it into a game 14:28 so if you have a Hungarian 10f frame and the child builds seven here you could say something like if that says seven make it say nine and they're adding two more if that says nine make it say five 14:46 this really helps students understand how quantities build and how they can contract they can break it down into small smaller pieces 15:00 so let's take it to the tally mark idea these are base 10 blocks so these are larger quantities they're harder to read without counting one by one 15:08 when I look at 60 there I want to get my pointer finger out and count them to make sure I got them all right again because it's bigger than three or four so I can't see the the quantity very quickly 15:18 so if we subitize that now we can see that we're changing the quantity we've got a group of five and one more which makes six and then we can subitize this other quantity of eight into five and three 15:37 and so students can quickly see the quantity without having to get their finger down and count which frees up that working memory so that they can do other steps this applies even in algebra 15:52 okay this example came from a really popular curriculum called CPM math and I pulled this right from from their instruction book and I looked at this and I thought this is such a mess how do they expect students to work with this like that 16:04 so let's apply some subitizing here so if we reorganize it into dice patterns of five now it's a lot easier to see what's going on 16:10 and I can quickly see oh here's a zero pair those cancel each other out but really they add up to zero so I can remove those from the board and here's another zero pair 16:22 so it allows us to quickly identify and see these quantities this is important for all grade levels the subitizing idea is a game changer for a lot of students 16:36 okay then we talked about nearpoint references so graphic organizers now this one is awesome um because multi-digit multiplication takes a lot of procedure to get through 16:49 and so when we use this one we actually introduce it with gross motor first and we get a fist out and we're going to punch in the directionality to go along with the chance that you here 16:55 so step one you're multiplying down in that lower right hand corner you're punching and you say ones to the ones and then the student writes that down then ones to the tens and they punch and make sure they getting that crossbody movement in write the answer down 17:23 then you see in step two I say shift and so honestly if the student is a spot where they can they would stand up hop over and now they're going to shift into the next place value and do the same thing 17:29 we punching tens to the ones write the answer down tens to the T right write the answer down now add 17:36 and students get really good at this because we get the gross motor going and it's easier to remember and we scaffold and slowly start moving these out and the students don't need this anymore 17:47 but now they have a strong visual in their their head of punching in the air they have a chant that goes with it we're tapping into a lot of multiple senses here to help them with that recall 18:07 another example that I love this is a gift that we made for pmas so one of the things that's really tricky for kids is remembering that with multiplication and division you go from left to right and it doesn't matter if it's divide first then multiply what matters is left to right with reading 18:24 so here we start with the grouping symbols with the parentheses or the bars any of those then we move to exponents then multiplication and division from left to right add and subtract from left to right 18:41 and we scaffold this by introducing this GIF then the picture and then we encourage students to start writing it down in this same organization on their own paper so that they create their own nearpoint reference anytime they're taking a test to help them remember remember the steps 18:57 and before you know it eventually they don't even need it they remember what order to do it in 19:04 uh here's an example of buttons so we love buttons especially especially for long division it's so hard 19:11 so we begin with this graphic organizer and you can see that we have really simple language the first step divide the question you should be asking how many groups can I make 19:18 don't say goes into goes into has no meaning in mathematics like let's use real mathematical language how many groups can I make if I start with five how many groups can I make with 25 19:34 okay then we multiply write the amount of groups at the Top Line then multiply subtract compare do I have enough to make another group if you do then you might need to go back and revisit the steps right 19:50 then we can bring down the next number and repeat the steps what we' like to do with these buttons is teach the student use their non-dominant hand their left hand uh for most students and point the steps as they're doing the work 20:02 so that they have something else tracking down the page then their eyes they're touching and pointing to these dots and then use a large box graph paper to help them keep that all lined up so those are some of those tips that I love to share here 20:30 so let's talk about word problems so chunking is a great example of how we can adjust word problems too many of us are teaching students to look for the keywords and problems and Associate it with an operation 20:37 the problem with that is just like in English there's too many exceptions to the rule it just doesn't work so instead let's follow these guidelines 20:50 so allow students to create a vis visual representation of what's happening but we don't want the manipulatives to become an inefficient calculator so teach students to do simple pictures they don't have to be detailed circles squares tally marks whatever you want to do 21:03 help the student move from drawing simple pictures ultimately to writing the numbers 21:14 ah got to click and then my other tip is reveal one sentence at a time this allows students to visualize and draw and write what's happening in that first sentence 21:27 students need time to Monitor and reflect on their problem solving process 21:33 so at school students are taught to read the entire problem Circle those keywords and the numbers and then try to figure out the operation there is there there is very strong evidence that that's not the way we want to do that 21:45 instead we want students to stop at the period draw reflect reason and think about the context 21:59 so um there's some really interesting work from arene Arlene e marzola and we loved what she had to say about helping students with comprehension 22:11 so she says that we need to think before so when you read that first sentence you're going to pause and ask them if they know anything about this topic 22:19 and then you're going to uh think along when you as you continue to reveal one sentence at a time you're asking questions like what pictures could you draw what numbers could you write what operation do you think could work right 22:36 and then we want to ask what do you think the question might be before they even get to that point sometimes they might actually be accurate other times they might not 22:50 then we want to think after we want to summarize this is huge this is is really important a lot of schools are emphasizing this in standardized testing 22:55 teach the student how to restate the answer using the words from the problem to write a full sentence you're summarizing what just happened what's the solution 23:14 these help students learn to process and get all of that juice coming out of all the things that they know 23:26 okay let's move on to math act fluency this is a big one many of you are concerned about this and you should be you're in good company because Middle School teachers report that more than half of their students don't know their math facts 23:33 and of that 50% not all of them have a learning disability so what's going on well let's talk about what's happening in the brain here 23:48 so different parts of the brain are used for problem solving when compared to retrieval of math facts brain Imaging studies suggest that math math calculations Rel rely on interaction between parts of the brain that process the quantity and the visual information and the verbal representation of the numbers 24:08 however rot math calculations are largely using just that verbal system possibly because math facts are typically taught or wrote verbal memorization think flashcards mad minute that's from Blake Moore and and frit in 2005 24:32 so since math fact retrieval is utilizing the verbal system we can see why these students are also likely to struggle with their math facts so recalling math facts is a matter of word retrieval which is an area of weakness for students with dislexia 24:46 however it should be noted that these students may not have as much difficulty with math reasoning due to the many parts of the brain involved in math problem solving compared to the math fact recall alone 24:59 so what I'm trying to say is in other words just because you're bad at math facts does not mean you're bad at math 25:05 my son is 2 E when he was younger everyone thought in his class his teachers his peers that he was just not so good at math 25:11 however when we went and had his testing done it revealed he was gifted in mathematics in the only area he struggled in was quick rapid recall 25:22 and so we were able to switch him into gifted uh education math just in that one area and he excelled he did really well because we were actually challenging what he could do he's doing awesome 25:35 so is it dyslexia is it disc calula is it possibly both in dyslexia we see issues with phonological processing word retrieval and working memory which impacts those math facts 25:47 in Des culia we see issues with working memory numerical seman ICS the how math actually works and spatial representation of numbers 25:59 but what about those students that have both you'll see that they have both sets of those traits and they have a stronger deficit in semantics and that mental representation of numbers 26:07 and that impacts about six and 20% of the student population which still doesn't add up to 50% of students struggling so what's going on why do we see such a high percentage of students struggling with that unfortunately math instruction has left a lot of students to struggle with their math facts 26:33 so it's not just dyslexia and dyscalculia it's our instruction so here's what you need to do number one stop drilling and start teaching strategies help students understand the relationships between numbers 26:45 number two provide accommodations like a multiplication chart or a calculator don't make math facts a barrier to higher level math 26:55 number three use multisensory approaches tap into visual auditory and kinesthetic learning 27:05 number four build fluency over time with consistent practice using strategies not just memorization and number five celebrate progress not perfection every small step forward is worth celebrating 27:20 now let's talk about math anxiety this is such a huge issue and it can really impact student performance math anxiety is a real physiological response it can cause students to freeze up feel sick have their heart race and it really impacts their ability to show what they know 27:45 math anxiety is often caused by a history of failure in math being told they're not good at math being timed on math facts or being put on the spot in front of peers 27:58 so what do we do we create a safe environment where students feel comfortable making mistakes where they feel comfortable asking questions where they're not being timed where they're not being put on the spot 28:15 we help them develop a growth mindset where they understand that making mistakes is part of learning and that they can get better at math with practice and with the right strategies 28:28 and we also want to make sure that we're not inadvertently causing math anxiety by the way that we're talking about math or the way that we're teaching math 28:38 so for example if we're saying things like oh I was never good at math either or oh math is so hard or if we're showing our own anxiety about math students pick up on that and it can cause them to develop their own math anxiety 28:53 so we want to make sure that we're being really mindful about the messages that we're sending to students about math and we want to create a positive environment where students feel safe to take risks and make mistakes 29:10 so those are some strategies for dealing with math anxiety now let's talk about some practical tools and accommodations that we can use to help twice exceptional students be successful in math 29:25 so one tool that I love is the multiplication chart and I know some people are hesitant to give students a multiplication chart because they feel like it's cheating or they feel like students won't learn their multiplication facts if they have a chart 29:40 but the reality is that if a student doesn't have a multiplication chart they're going to spend all of their cognitive energy trying to figure out what 7 times 8 is instead of being able to focus on the actual problem that they're trying to solve 29:55 so giving them a multiplication chart frees up their cognitive energy to focus on problem solving and then over time with practice and with strategies they will develop fluency but in the meantime we want to give them the tools that they need to be successful 30:15 another tool that I love is a calculator and again some people are hesitant to give students a calculator because they feel like it's cheating 30:25 but the reality is that calculators are a tool that we use in the real world and if a student is struggling with computation we don't want computation to be a barrier to them learning higher level math 30:38 so giving them a calculator allows them to access higher level math and it allows them to focus on problem solving instead of getting bogged down in computation 30:50 another tool that I love is extra time and this is especially important for students with slow processing speed or students with working memory challenges 31:00 because these students need more time to process information and to complete their work and if we don't give them extra time they're not going to be able to show what they know 31:12 so we want to make sure that we're giving students the time that they need to be successful and we also want to make sure that we're reducing the amount of work that we're asking them to do 31:25 so instead of asking them to do 50 problems we might only ask them to do 20 problems because we want to make sure that they're able to complete the work in a reasonable amount of time and that they're not getting so overwhelmed that they shut down 31:40 so those are some practical tools and accommodations that we can use to help students be successful in math now let's talk about how we can support students at home and at school 31:55 so one of the most important things that we can do is to communicate with the school and to make sure that the school understands what our students need and to make sure that they're implementing the accommodations that are in the IEP or the 504 plan 32:15 and if the school is not implementing those accommodations we need to advocate for our students and we need to make sure that they're getting what they need 32:28 and we also want to make sure that we're working with the school to develop a plan for how we're going to help our student be successful in math and that might mean hiring a tutor or that might mean doing some extra practice at home or that might mean using some of the strategies that we've talked about today 32:48 and we also want to make sure that we're creating a positive environment at home where our students feel safe to make mistakes and where they feel comfortable asking for help and where we're not putting too much pressure on them because that can cause math anxiety 33:08 and we want to make sure that we're sending positive messages about math and that we're celebrating their successes no matter how small they are because that helps build their confidence and helps them develop a growth mindset 33:25 so those are some ways that we can support students at home and at school now I want to open it up for questions because I know there are probably a lot of questions and I want to make sure that I address as many of them as possible so feel free to put your questions in the chat and I will do my best to answer them 51:45 huge Abby do you want to do next one or you want me to sure okay let's see what do we have here 51:52 um H okay here's here's an interesting one how do we encourage kids to show their math on a math worksheet or possibly how do we encourage teachers not to require that but the question was my son can do his math work but refuses to show his worksheet or do any step-by-step work uh on paper what what do we do uh what age is this student we know 52:14 okay so when you're younger um yeah it doesn't seem like that big of a problem but as you progress in mathematics it's going to get to the point where you can't see what the answer is anymore you can't noodle your way out of it so you have to give them a compelling reason why 52:33 so for me one of my I guess favorite examples is I had a student who was a ninth grader 2E wanted to be a pilot and so I have a bunch of pilots in my family so I called them and I said okay he doesn't want to show his work what compelling reason can I give him 52:47 and they said oh in Flight like his entire career every time you're getting ready to leave you have to show your co-pilot the math step by step to show them and this isn't hard math this is basic math but you have to show them step by step so that they can verify and check okay 53:06 and my brother-in-law let me know recently that he just had to put someone on leave because he couldn't do that he could not show how he got the number for the load 53:19 and so my brother-in-law is a trainer he wrote it all out and said I'm sorry but this is too many times you can't continue to be a pilot anymore I'm going to report you to the training facility and they pulled pulled him off the flight because he can't talk about the load 53:33 so you got to give him compelling reasons and I know that's far in the future but compelling reasons why we got to show our work and we had to talk more about how mathematics is a form of communication and so it helps us to be better at communicating our thinking with other people we're communicating in another language of mathematics 53:51 so give them a compelling reason why so think about what do they want to do in the future how does that tie to mathematics nurses have to show each other how they come up calculations like these things happen uh firemen have to do rapid calculations with ratios to make sure they don't lift one of their teammates up in the air with water right 54:17 so these are compelling reasons not exciting maybe right now in the moment but they're important for the long term 54:30 I really love that yes T get into their passions um one person says my 14-year-old son makes careless mistakes with math due to his working memory and ADHD and desire to be done his mental math is exceptionally strong any suggestions 54:44 yeah so again like tapping into you know what's the long-term goal with the mathematics is really important and then the careless mistakes um be careful calling them that to your child too like it can start to cause like a shame spiral about that 55:00 because it's not necessarily he's being careless it's that his brain is just struggling to keep up with the speed at which he's working 55:06 so one way you could get around this because my guess is his processing speeds faster but there's a disconnect to how quickly he can write it down 55:12 so get that quao app and you can do voice to text he can talk it out or he can write it quickly and it will type it out for him 55:24 but that being able to talk out your work would actually help him speed through the homework right but it will help him with that disconnect of the rapid um processing that he's experiencing and that delay down to the paper is really frustrating 55:38 so be open to using some adaptive devices like that 55:45 all right here here's the next one um one parent asked our son has disra graphia disc calcula and is a nonverbal verbal learner do the math strategies that you presented here serve would they serve a learner like their son or are there additional resources they should research or learn more about 56:06 oh absolutely what we do has a lot of strong evidence um so yes yes yes yes what we do would totally help that child 56:19 [Music] MH and then someone else asks is the psychologist who talks about Stealth dyslexia when the problem is math reading is way ahead ignoring disc calcula are they separate assessments or the same 56:38 they're typically separate assessments um you're going to see the Whisk used uh sometimes the key math the Fifer assessment of mathematics um so the psychologist should be using something like that to look directly at the math 56:52 um so if you do fer assessment of mathematics he has subtypes and what's helpful about that is a student with uh dyslexia is going to struggle more in the subtype around verbal skills needed for math so that's where you're going to see low scores 57:12 but they might be off the charts in other areas with those subtypes which really helps you Target the intervention um I feel like it does a better job than like the Whisk as far as giving information for doing something about it like what can I do to help the student 57:31 so yes it it's different testing than what you would do for reading 57:38 all right we're just about at one I'm gonna ask you one final final question and sorry to everyone who's you know hopefully we got to your question but there were so many um we tried to do our best 57:49 but my final question would be one of the parents asked is there any class that a parent could take to help acquire skills to serve Learners like this 57:55 yes class in the PDF that I'm gonna give to Yale and Abby to send out there are two links you should pay attention to one is Marilyn Zer she teaches classes 58:05 you can either do it independent study where you're just watching her videos and trying it with your student or if you want to start on the path of becoming like a certified instructor like me which I will warn you is very long it took me 5 years to get there so um you could go down that path 58:26 but and you're interacting with Marilyn and receiving feedback and those kinds of things so there's that link then there's also Professor Sharma Professor Sharma is on the East Coast he does free classes every Tuesday at 8 AM Eastern 58:44 every year he starts over so he starts at like basic number and goes all the way up into Algebra 2 teaching it the way that we're talking about so really really good um so make sure to go check those out in that uh print out that I was I'm gonna share with you guys 59:02 thank you so much Adrien this was amazing I want to be respectful of your time we so appreciate you sharing your time and expertise people non-stop in the chat were very excited about everything you were sharing 59:10 and sure share the recording with everyone um if we didn't get to people's questions are you okay with them emailing you yeah absolutely okay post your email in the chat 59:21 and we look forward to sending out all of your um information that you have for everybody along with the recording to everyone absolutely thank you for coming everyone I always love learning out about this stuff 59:34 great thank you everyone for coming see you later and the recording yeah the music list I will get that I saw that in the chat I will get that music list

In this recording from Join REEL's executive director, Abby Kirigin, to discover new strategies and ideas for supporting twice-exceptional (2e) students at school using the DEAR REEL model. We developed the DEAR REEL model to provide a more concrete way to provide guidance on working with the 2e. The model is based on academic research and best practices from experienced educators about what works for these learners. The DEAR REEL model consists of four lenses: Develop Connection Embrace Flexibility Attend to Strengths Reframe Behaviors Each lens shares a lot with the others while also providing a valuable perspective on its own. As such, best practice suggestions for each area overlap somewhat with others. This is purposeful, because these four lenses work best when used together! This talk walks you step by step through each lens of the DEAR REEL model, including: an overview and definitions; personal stories and examples; suggested articles, books, blog posts, podcasts and videos; additional online resources. We also include detailed lists of practical suggestions by grade level for elementary, middle, and high school. These suggestions do not all need to be used all of the time, but instead provide a menu of options for your consideration. Try strategies and see works for your community and classroom. We believe that you will find that it is not only 2e students who benefit from the strategies and ideas in this model; ALL students will benefit when the DEAR REEL model is implemented! See the transcript here Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students: A REEL Community Workshop Recap Welcome! We’re excited to have you here. In case you’re not familiar with REEL , we’re a nonprofit dedicated to helping twice-exceptional (2e) students  in Silicon Valley thrive. We do this by raising awareness among parents and educators and sharing strategies to support their unique needs. What Does “Twice-Exceptional” Mean? Our definition of 2e comes from the Bridges 2e Center for Research and Development .Twice-exceptional students have: Distinguishing strengths  (high ability or potential in one or more areas) Complex challenges  such as dyslexia, autism, ADHD, or anxiety These traits combine—like yellow and blue making green—to form a student with a complex learning profile . Their strengths and challenges interact, and they need support that addresses both exceptionalities . Explore REEL’s Resources Our website is full of helpful tools: Recorded talks  organized by topic Articles and white papers Downloadable guides Feel free to use and share these resources with your educators! Upcoming Events You Won’t Want to Miss We host a bi-monthly parent support group  with breakout rooms for sharing ideas and support.You can RSVP for all events at real2e.org . Highlights: Nov 13 : Therapies for anxiety with three expert psychologists Jan : Writing solutions for 2e learners Mar 16 : Student panel on neurodivergent experiences (K–12) Spring : Executive function talk—one of our top requested topics! Neurodiversity Speaker Series REEL is proud to be part of the Neurodiversity Speaker Series. Catch recent recordings on the Parent Venture YouTube channel—with more coming soon! Join the REEL Community We have a Google Group  where hundreds of Bay Area parents ask questions, share resources, and support one another. Kelly may drop the link in the chat.You can also follow us on: Facebook Instagram YouTube  (for past recordings) Bring REEL to Your School Today’s workshop offers a glimpse into what we present to educators. We’ve worked with dozens of Bay Area schools to offer: Learning difference simulations Deeper-dive workshops We also released a free 46-page guide  for twice-exceptional learners—especially relevant for Bay Area families. Download it at real2e.org ! Meet Dr. Abby Kerrigan Dr. Abby Kerrigan is REEL’s Executive Director—a lifelong learner and passionate advocate for inclusive education. She brings: Experience as an interaction designer  in tech startups Her perspective as a parent of three children A doctorate  from Bridges Graduate School, where she created a curriculum for neurodivergent middle schoolers A Master’s in Human-Computer Interaction  from Carnegie Mellon A BA in Computer Science and Philosophy  from NYU She’s also presented for: Stanford Neurodiversity Project Parents Place KnowledgeWorks California Association for the Gifted National Association for Gifted Children Understanding Neurodiversity Defined by Harvard Medical School , neurodiversity is an umbrella term that embraces the natural variations in human brains and how we function. We are all part of the neurodiverse community : Some are neurotypical  (or neuronormative) Others are neurodivergent  (e.g., ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dyscalculia) We move away from outdated medical models that view neurodivergence as something to be “cured. ”Instead, we celebrate differences and support each person’s unique contributions to society. Key Stats to Know 1 in 5 children  have a learning or attention difference In California, 1 in 22 eight-year-olds  are identified as autistic (vs. 1 in 39 nationally) Among students with ADHD: 39% also experience anxiety 37% have learning differences 14% are autistic Only 13% of public school students  in Santa Clara and San Mateo counties are served in special education—meaning many neurodivergent students are not formally identified or supported. Reframing the Narrative We can view neurodivergent students in two ways. REEL encourages a strength-based, neurodiversity-positive lens . Traditional View (Medical Model): Inattentive Hyperactive Impulsive Loud Impatient Strength-Based View: Energetic Enthusiastic Fun-loving Entrepreneurial Full of ideas Let’s define individuals by their strengths , not their weaknesses. Celebrating Neurodivergent Achievers Here are a few famous individuals who are neurodivergent: Steven Spielberg  – interdisciplinary thinker (dyslexia) Steve Jobs  – 3D spatial reasoning genius (dyslexia) Octavia Butler  – science fiction author with powerful narrative reasoning (dyslexia) Dave Pilkey  – creative mind behind Captain Underpants  (ADHD) Simone Biles – known for her enthusiasm, dedication, and drive (ADHD) Richard Branson - risk-taking, adventurous, novelty-seeking, and a highly successful entrepreneur (ADHD) David Byrne -driven by deep knowledge, skill, passion, and motivation in his interest areas (autism) Sir Anthony Hopkins – intensely focused on detail, which helps him bring characters to life (autism( Hannah Gadsby – a successful comedian whose logical thinking and honesty have shaped her career (autism) These examples remind us: when we focus on strengths, we unlock potential. These individuals show how neurodivergent traits can be powerful assets. They’ve defined themselves in positive ways—and that’s exactly what we want for our children. What It Means to Be Twice-Exceptional We’ve touched on this earlier, but it’s worth digging deeper. Twice-exceptional students are often missed in formal diagnoses because: Their strengths mask their challenges Their challenges mask their strengths They don’t fit neatly into one category Educators may be equipped to support students in special education or those in advanced classes—but they often overlook students who need both kinds of support . These are our twice-exceptional learners. Understanding the Jagged Profile Let’s compare two student profiles: Typical Student Profile A student may not meet every age-based expectation exactly, but their abilities across areas like working memory, emotional regulation, and academic performance tend to be fairly even . Twice-Exceptional Student Profile This student’s profile is jagged —with high highs and low lows.For example, a student who is autistic and has ADHD might show: Very high vocabulary and reading level Strong math reasoning Lower math performance  due to slow processing speed Difficulty with writing , which affects performance on math worksheets Frustration  from being unable to show what they know Social and emotional regulation  below grade level, leading to classroom behaviors that confuse teachers This disconnect between ability and performance is a hallmark of twice-exceptionality—and it creates real challenges in typical classroom environments. Neurodivergence Among High Achievers It’s important to recognize that neurodivergent students exist even among high-achieving learners: 5–20% of gifted students  may have learning disabilities 9% of children with ADHD  are high-achieving 19% of underachieving students  meet referral criteria for inattentive ADHD 2–20% of autistic learners  are gifted, but often diagnosed late and experience higher anxiety Implications for Support These statistics have serious implications: Only 11% of academically advanced special education students  are considered appropriately served 60% of students  with ADHD and twice-exceptional profiles struggle with motor regulation There’s a 30% lower chance  that a 2e dyslexic student will reach math proficiency These gaps highlight the urgent need for strength-based, individualized support —so that all students, regardless of their profile, can thrive. The Stakes Are High Because math is so central to academic success, challenges in this area can hold students back from reaching their full potential. Unfortunately, research shows that autistic children are five times more likely to experience suicidal ideation . When these students are not supported in our classrooms, they face real emotional consequences: Frustration Rejection Loneliness Anxiety and depression These experiences can lead to: Chronic absenteeism School avoidance Low self-concept Equity Challenges in Diverse Communities For culturally, linguistically, and economically diverse communities , the challenges are often compounded. Teachers may be more likely to focus on deficits rather than strengths . In a recent REEL survey of Silicon Valley parents: 50% reported that highly asynchronous learners are not thriving in school. Introducing the DearREEL Model So what can we do? This is where we begin working with educators—through empathy exercises , simulations , and conversations about consequences . At REEL, we developed the DealREEL Model , a four-part framework designed to help educators support neurodivergent and twice-exceptional learners . We believe these strategies benefit all students  in a neurodiverse classroom. This model was created in collaboration with an educator advisory group  that includes: Public school teachers Principals Private school learning specialists District-level staff Teacher educators It’s based on years of data and stories from parents in our community. You can download the full white paper  from our website for more details. Petal 1: Developing Connection The first petal of our flower model is Developing Connection —a critical component of working with 2e students. Most teachers enter the profession because they love working with kids and want to build meaningful relationships. While connection benefits all students, it’s especially vital for neurodivergent learners  who may be: Struggling Frustrated Feeling unseen or misunderstood Without a safe, trusted adult  who sees their strengths and effort, it’s hard for these students to thrive. Understanding the Student’s Battery We encourage educators to ask: What charges  this student up? What drains  them? What sustains  them? Quick Tips for Building Connection Listen and be approachable Share wins with colleagues If you only see a student in one context (e.g., math class), talk to other teachers to learn where they shine Observe them in electives or clubs to understand their strengths Intentionally collect information Use tools and forms to learn how students like to communicate and what interests them One great tool is a free downloadable document from the University of Connecticut  that helps educators understand student preferences and communication styles. Guiding Questions for Connection We love this graphic with reflective questions for educators: Does this child feel a sense of belonging  in our school? Am I being intentional  about the energy I bring? Will this build or break trust ? Are we having enough fun ? Simone Biles on Joy and Performance One of our featured neurodivergent individuals, Simone Biles , has a powerful quote: “When I’m smiling and having fun, I perform my best.” Even at the highest levels of competition, joy—not pressure—is what helps her thrive. This reminds us that creating a positive, joyful community  helps students bring out their best selves. Real Stories from Our Community 🌱 Ava’s Story Ava was a 2e high school student who wanted to study environmental science.In elementary school, her teacher noted: “She’s eager and motivated to learn, ”Surpassing her reading goals by over 600% . But by middle school, feedback shifted to: “Please turn in assignments more quickly and raise your grades.” She eventually completed high school at middle college , where two supportive teachers: Understood her learning disability Celebrated her achievements Focused on content, not speed Respected her need for breaks Treated her as an equal This connection helped Ava believe in her own abilities and thrive. Alec’s Story Alec had just joined fifth grade after moving from El Salvador.He was brilliant but had untreated ADHD  and was new to the language and culture. His teacher gave him a stack of blank note cards and made a deal: Alec would teach her one Spanish word  each day She would teach him one academic concept One day, Alec even wrote a quiz for his teacher —on the same day she gave the class a math quiz! This personal connection helped Alec feel seen, valued, and engaged . Practical Tips by Grade Level We’ve created a graphic (available in our downloadable document) with specific strategies  for: Elementary school Middle school High school Examples include: Supporting student-led neurodiversity advocacy  in high school Establishing a neurodiversity club  in middle school Exploring identity —both for teachers and students—to foster understanding and belonging Petal 2: Embracing Flexibility The second petal of the DearREEL model is Embracing Flexibility —a mindset shift that invites educators to adopt Universal Design for Learning (UDL) . UDL encourages teachers to: Focus on the core goal  of an assignment or experience Offer multiple ways  for students to receive information Provide flexible options  for students to show what they kno w What Flexibility Looks Like Let’s say you’re teaching a unit on a Civil War battle. Students could learn through: Original accounts Textbooks Audiobooks Pre-screened YouTube videos To demonstrate understanding, students might: Write a five-paragraph essay Create a podcast  with character interviews Build a diorama  or paint a scene The key is that standards remain consistent —the rubric doesn’t change. What changes is how students access and express learning . Real Stories of Flexibility John’s Story John loved books and listened intently to chapter readings. But by first grade, he struggled to read and made no progress despite hours of effort. He became frustrated, refused to open books, and began hiding to avoid school. Once diagnosed with dyslexia , John received targeted tutoring. But his parents and teachers also embraced audiobooks  to feed his imagination. His vocabulary blossomed, and he re-engaged with classroom conversations his comprehension needs met through flexible access. Heather’s Story In second grade, Heather was assigned to build a biome model. Most students created physical objects, but Heather had limited fine motor skills. Her teacher allowed her to build her model virtually  using Scratch. She programmed animals to explain their interactions in the savannah, showcasing her giftedness  and deep understanding of the food web. Ben’s Story Ben, a sixth grader, had exceptional presentation skills and a strong memory. While preparing a class presentation, he struggled with writing speaker notes. Since the learning goal was presentation , not writing, his teacher let him skip that step. Ben delivered a powerful presentation and set a high bar for his classmates—his strengths were honored without penalizing his challenges. Practical Flexibility Strategies Across all grade levels, educators can: Offer flexible seating Create quiet zones Provide movement breaks Normalize accommodations for all students By explaining the purpose of accommodations and allowing autonomy , we create classrooms where everyone’s needs are valid —no label required. Petal 3: Attending to Strengths Sometimes schools unintentionally pull students away from the very activities that refuel their emotional batteries . For example: A student who loves math  may be pulled from math class for an OT session—missing the one subject that makes them feel confident and excited. Students may be asked to miss PE, lunch, or recess  to complete tests or assignments—losing the time they need to recharge and release energy . Ask the Student The best strategy? Ask the student  what time works best. Collaborate with parents and come up with a mutually agreeable plan  that honors: Their electives Their interests Their need for joy and autonomy When students feel seen for their strengths, they’re more willing to take on challenges. They try harder, persist longer, and feel good about being in school . The Pyramid of Partnership Inspired by Dr. Robin Shader, this graphic reframes the traditional triangle of student-parent-teacher relationships. Instead of pulling against each other, imagine a pyramid  where: Student , parent , and teacher  are all looking upward They share the same goal: helping the student reach their full potential At REEL, we place this pyramid on a foundation of strengths and interests . These should be woven into: Interventions Accommodations Daily classroom experiences Henry’s Story Henry loved drawing but struggled with writing. Instead of writing a blog post about current events, his teacher let him create political cartoons . Henry’s cartoons: Showed sophisticated commentary Became a regular feature  in the school newsletter Led him to join the yearbook team By honoring his strengths, Henry’s school experience became meaningful and empowering . Sam, Jacob & Lance’s Story In sixth grade, these three boys needed to show understanding of ancient India. They built a Lego exhibit Created a video presentation  instead of a paper Later wrote a multi-paragraph essay  with extra scaffolding Working in their areas of interest  gave them the motivation to overcome writing challenges. Strength-Based Strategies at Every Level Here are practical ways to attend to strengths: Strength-based IEP goals Menus of options  for showing knowledge Genius hours  and passion projects Interest-based clubs These strategies help students feel valued, capable, and engaged . Petal 4: Reframing Behaviors As Dr. Ross Greene says: “Kids do well if they can.” This petal asks educators to shift their mindset: From “Why won’t they do this?” To “What’s getting in their way?” Uncovering Hidden Barriers Collaborate with: Students Parents Support teams Look for sensory or environmental factors  that may be affecting behavior. For example: A student fidgeting during circle time may be reacting to: An itchy rug Bright lights Crowded seating Loud sounds Small changes can make a big difference . Wellness & Co-Regulation This is often the most challenging petal .It requires: Self-awareness Patience Practice Educators should attend to their own wellness  and ability to co-regulate  with students. The Iceberg Analogy Unexpected behavior is often just the tip of the iceberg . Below the surface may be: Cognitive challenges Social-emotional needs Biological factors Use your “submarine” to explore what’s beneath—and respond with compassion and insight . Jonah’s Story Jonah was highly gifted but had sensory processing issues . When bored, he would put his shirt over his head and rub his chest—making classmates uncomfortable. His teacher: Asked about the behavior Discovered it was a sensory need Created fabric boards  with different textures for Jonah to use This simple accommodation helped Jonah feel regulated and understood . And he would use those in the classroom when he needed that sensory stimulation. So it really worked and made everyone else in the classroom much more comfortable around him. Closing Reflection: Serena’s Story To end, we invite you to watch a video featuring Serena , a bright middle school student reflecting back on her experience—now as a college student. In middle school, Serena’s teachers were perplexed  by her behavior. Despite her academic strengths, she was often out of her seat , wandering the classroom , and frequently sent to the office. Her behaviors were seen as deliberate and disruptive , not as signs of a neurodivergent profile. A Missed Diagnosis It wasn’t until high school  that Serena was diagnosed with ADHD —and things finally started to make sense. “If my teacher had understood those behaviors as a manifestation of ADHD and accommodated my need for movement, my experience may have been more positive.” In the video, you’ll hear from Serena—now a sophomore at Columbia University —and from some of her former teachers. Serena Speaks “Most of the time, I didn’t even know I was acting out. I just thought it was completely normal.” “I found myself in the office a lot. My parents got emails about me a lot.” “I spent eight hours studying for something I’d get a C on. My counselor said my grades were too high for ADHD.” Serena’s story reveals how ADHD in girls  is often under-recognized , especially when academic performance masks underlying challenges. Cultural Stigma & Advocacy Serena also speaks to the cultural stigma  around neurodiversity: “There’s pressure not to place a label on yourself. No one wants to think their child is weaker or different.” But she found strength in advocating for other students : “It’s not that the kid is doing this intentionally. There are things not completely in the child’s control or awareness.” “It’s up to us as adults to help bring that together.” A Shift in Identity Serena describes the transformation: “A huge change—from being demonized as a child to realizing: I’m not a terrible person. There’s something going on.” “You can be high-achieving and still struggle. It’s not dependent on IQ or capability.” “Once you have a diagnosis and supportive measures, your capability increases. That’s what helped me navigate my 2e journey.” Practical Suggestions & Final Reflection We’ve shared practical strategies  across all grade levels, and we encourage you to download the white paper  to explore: Research Resources Classroom techniques Real student stories Reflect & Apply As we wrap up, take a moment to reflect: Is there a student in your classroom  or your own child  who could benefit from deeper connection? How might you offer expanded options  for student work—more voice and choice ? Could you increase access to time and space  for students to work in their areas of strength? Try genius hours Rotate students to present on topics of interest How might you reframe unwanted behaviors  to uncover underlying needs and barriers? Q&A Highlights How can we partner with teachers who view accommodations as a burden? This is a common concern. At a recent Stanford panel, a principal acknowledged that yes, accommodations require planning . But the long-term payoff  is worth it. Start small: Choose one petal  from the DealREEL model Make incremental changes Offer accommodations to all students , not just those with formal plans This normalizes support, removes stigma, and simplifies classroom management. From the Parent Perspective If you're a parent advocating for accommodations: Share REEL resources  and fact sheets  with teachers Frame your observations positively: “I’ve noticed my child is more successful when XYZ happens…” This opens the door to collaboration and helps teachers see the benefits for the whole class . A Personal Story One parent shared: “My son wanted to color his beanstalk in crazy colors, but the teacher wanted it green. The lesson was about math—not biology. When she allowed flexibility, all the kids joined in and loved the project more.” Flexibility for one student can enhance the experience for everyone . Wrapping Up Thank you for joining us. We’ll be sending out: The slides The recording Links to resources and upcoming talks Please visit real2e.org  to explore: Upcoming events Past recordings Downloadable guides Community support 💖 Final Thanks Thank you all so much for being part of this conversation. Together, we can build classrooms that see every student , honor every strength , and support every journey .