VIDEO: 2e Math Solutions - Resources

On Tuesday, October 23 we heard from Adrianne Meldrum, the founder and owner of Made for Math (MFM), an all-online math center focused on serving students with dyslexia, dyscalculia, and math learning disabilities. She is a certified Multisensory Math Instructor through Marilyn Zecher, and holds a Master’s Degree from Bridges Graduate School of Cognitive Diversity.

Adrianne spoke to us about how dyslexia, dysgraphia, working memory, and processing speed can impact performance in math. Adrianne also touched on math anxiety, math facts, showing work, and more. We learned about the reasons 2e kids may face challenges at various ages and what parents and schools can do to help.

Watch the recording here

Adrianne was kind enough to share lots of links and resources with us after her talk, including:

Adrianne's recommended resource list:

REEL Multisensory Math Handout.pdf

Download PDF • 305KB

The music playlist referred to in the talk: https://madeformath.com/studying-music/

Equatio: https://www.texthelp.com/products/equatio/

This fun animated GIF:

Download this animated GIF here

---

Read the video transcript here

0:08

welcome everyone to 2E math Solutions just in case you're not familiar with real we are a nonprofit that strives to ensure Silicon Valley twice exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent and educator awareness and understanding of solutions that are research-based to help address their needs um and this is an example of one of the ways we do that is these talks

0:27

if you're here you're probably from familiar with 2E but just in case um we Define 2E as students who have both distinguishing strengths High abilities or potential in one or more areas and complex challenges at the same time um such as specific learning disabilities like dyslexia ADHD autism anxiety and others

0:48

and so the 2E students are in this green space they have both the strengths and the challenges at the same time and the way they combine and interact um makes them uh more challenging to to support than some other students

1:07

you can always learn more at real2 e.org we have a topics tool that you can browse all of our past events blog posts and resources on a variety of topics to support two we students

1:14

we have two more upcoming events this season we have our 2E parent B monthly support going and um our executive functioning talk on November 14th that's a really popular one the number one requested topic um and then we will be announcing our spring events shortly

1:29

so you can get all this on our website you can also join our private um Google group where parents ask and answer questions about their students you can also follow us on Facebook Twitter and watch our previous recordings on YouTube

1:50

as I mentioned real is a nonprofit and we do rely on your donations to keep our programming free um so if you enjoy this presentation we would appreciate you supporting us in donation

2:03

and now to intr introduce our speaker for today Adrienne meltam is the founder and owner of made for Math and all online math Center focused on serving students with dyslexia dyscalculia and math learning disabilities she's a certified multisensory math instructor through Marilyn Zer and she holds a master's degree from Bridget Graduate School of cognitive diversity welcome Adrien

2:25

hello everyone I'm so excited to get started okay so let me get my screen going and feel free to drop things in the chat

2:32

thank you for having me Y and Abby I'm so excited we've had this on the books for a long time so it's G to be a lot of fun today um can you just give me a thumbs up that you see everything okay okay great awesome

2:49

okay so thankfully I was sent a bunch of questions that you all had when you registered and I tried to find common themes so this is my attempt today and if I didn't cover something that you were specifically looking for feel free to put it in the chat but also if we don't get to it I am happy to respond to emails and such

3:10

so my plan today is we're going to cover just a little bit of discula it's a huge topic and we don't have quite enough time same with dis graphia but we'll discuss slow processing working memory math back fluency and math anxiety is a big one

3:25

so true discula affects about 6% of school children in a classroom of 30 students that would look like one or two

3:31

often we see students receiving a diagnosis of discal one it might actually be their dyslexia that's impacting it or maybe severe ADHD instead but if they get the diagnosis that's not necessarily a problem because that means more access to accommodations

3:50

so when a student has disc calula typically what we see is the progress in mathematics is painfully slow that's how you know you found a kiddo that has disc calula they struggle to make any kind of real progress

4:04

so I'm going to go over just a few of the Hallmarks that we see students with disc calula struggle with their math facts similar to maybe a student with dyslexia even with PR practice that recall is super poor

4:17

and we also see a total Reliance on Counting as one of their main problem solving strategies which holds them back from progressing in mathematics altogether

4:29

place value is also mystifying to a student with disc calcula they haven't grasped that position means that the number is changing size and magnitude they don't understand how that even works and causes a lot of frustration for them

4:42

they also have no sense if the answers are even correct that they're coming to often we see a poor sense of time they might not even know what 15 minutes feels like or if they have an appointment they're not necessarily sure what time they need to get ready during the day for that o that appointment

4:56

they don't understand how to read the clock or grasp how a calendar works or work with money and their mental math skills are weak and often caused by anxiety and they have to rely on that counting strategy which slows them down

5:14

so my general advice for you because we're so short on time today don't monkey around at the schools hire an expert if your child has a discal culia diagnosis your time is a really important and like I said remediation takes a long time so hire an expert

5:38

um look for a multisensory math specialist that's been trained by Marilyn Zer like myself or David Berg is really popular in California of making math real there's Professor Sharma he's east coast and Dr schrudder she's in Texas

5:57

and I also will have a handout that I'll share with um the ladies here so they can pass that out to you and get it to you it has links to all of these so don't stress about pulling up their names I've got you covered there

6:03

but due to the complexity of the cognitive functions needed to be successful in mathematics I wanted to use a model to help us visualize what's happening in the brain while we're learning this is the information processing model and it's going to help us think through some of the things we're going to talk about today

6:21

and none of the issues that you're probably currently dealing with in mathematics such as dyslexia dyscalculia dysraphia ADHD autism none of that can be addressed in isolation it all has a lot of cognitive overlap everything's integrated

6:36

so today you're going to hear ideas that could help your child in a section that maybe you haven't even considered before

6:42

so let's get started with disg graphia so the truth is we know very little about dis graphia it's still being researched but we do know it can look different in every child from struggling to get their words from their thoughts down onto paper

6:55

but it also can look like struggling to write and form letters and that indicates maybe a struggle with their visual spatial fine motor skills

7:08

and writing is a really complex process right it involves so many skills fine motor spatial perception working memory the orthographic coding the language processing conceptualization and organization to name a few

7:22

so our goal for a student like this would be to increase access so we do that by creating an environment ment where their fine motor skills are not a hindrance

7:28

so we're going to use large box graph paper to do math homework the graph paper you can buy in the store does not have boxes big enough you actually would want to create your own with boxes that are at least a half inch by half inch so the student can put the numbers inside of those boxes

7:53

then we recommend rotating a wide rolled paper now if you look at my camera for a second instead of having it like this rotate it 90° use the columns instead to help students line up their mathematics this helps with organization and keeping place value um in its correct spot

8:17

we recommend that if you're going to help a student who has these issues 16o font or bigger so they can see it clearly and plenty of room for writing

8:24

because we know that their numbers and letters can be different sizes and they need as much space as possible to show their work

8:36

and we also recommend not having more than two problems in a page on a page and shielding that second problem with another piece of paper to limit the overwhelm and the visual information that's coming in

8:49

there's also this super cool software called equatio it works with Google Docs there's an app on your iPad you could get and what's cool about that is even sloppy handwriting can be turned into uh text that is readable

9:01

and so that is an accommodation you could ask for for a student who has disg graphia so that a teacher could accurately uh correct that work and give feedback to the student because they can read the handwriting at this point

9:20

okay and then Hands-On materials if you're working with manipulatives with a student make sure they're bigger they're more chunky uh we like to use a beaded number line with students

9:26

and so if they have dis graphia we use big wooden beads with these students instead of the small pony beads because of the fine motor skills that are involved so handsome materials make sure they're larger in scale

9:43

and a lot of the things that I'm going to be going over also help with this disg graphia so pay attention to those because these are the same recommendations we would use with a student disg graphia but slower processing can impact mathematics greatly

9:56

so when we look a little bit deeper at what's happening happen in the brain we're actively trying to pull this information from short and longterm and use it to help us create a product like math homework

10:07

and so writing those thoughts on paper is actually one of the highest levels of executive functioning that you could be doing and it's super difficult including people like me I really struggle to get my thoughts out

10:20

it may not look like it because of this presentation but I do it took me a lot of time to put this together

10:30

so the goal is let's give these students more think time so many of you might have already asked for extra time on tests but don't be afraid to advocate for more time on assignments or shortened assignments

10:37

and then you could also ask for teachers to uh do an audio recording or a video recording of the lessons at school this helps the student with slower processing speed listen later and turn the playback speed down or turn on those close captioning to help support their processing

11:02

and it's super important when we're using the language of mathematics with these students that we speak at a slower Pace with natural pauses for think time you want to make sure that your language is clear and concise we don't want to clutter it up with too much information talking too quickly

11:20

okay and working memory working memory pulls that information from our shortterm and long-term and can be used to hold up to three or four pieces of information at a time

11:27

you know that moment of panic when you're trying to remember a phone number right and you're saying it back saying it back because there's just too many digits for you to remember that's why because our brain Can Only Hold three or four at a time

11:44

so with working memory we have the inner eye visual information is used here so students with strong visual memory you're going to see them looking up in the sky while they're thinking or down at the ground while they're thinking and that's their inner eye at work

11:54

the inner eye is is used for mental math for understanding magnitude and how big or how small a number is

12:06

and then we have that inner voice which is what is used for using those math facts or the names for the number and trying to dictate those numbers down on paper

12:13

so for the child that may be thinking of the number but struggles to write that down that's a struggle with their inner voice it's weaker in this case

12:26

so what do we do about that we want to scaffold as much as possible this is my favorite tip we call it active subitizing and I will show you what it is here in just a minute

12:37

to subitize means to see suddenly so think of dice patterns Domino patterns tally marks these are organized patterns to help us see quantity

12:48

and then I want you to make nearpoint references or graphic organizers to support the working memory to help students remember what steps are needed to solve and we love using uh graphic organizers that have what we call buttons and I'll show you what that looks like here in just a second

13:08

then you want to chunk information into small bite-sized pieces of information three or four at a time no more than that

13:14

for students doing algebra we want to draw a long line in between solving steps to help the brain think okay I'm finished with this step draw a line now what's next they do that step then they draw a line to help signify I have finished with the processing of this step

13:37

and let's go through my favorite stuff okay active subitizing is when students are building the quantity with Hands-On materials or they're drawing

13:43

and our general guidelines are that you always subitize anything larger than four start with DOT patterns expand to tally marks and that helps with generalizing this idea of quantities to other systems of marking a quantity

14:01

and always tie the symbolic form the numerals of the number to that dot pattern

14:08

so to see what I'm talking about this is a Hungarian 10f frame we use these all the time we think they're a fantastic tool and we prefer these actually over the 10 frames that are very common in schools

14:20

it's such a great way for students to see the quantity and actively subitize and build and so we encourage uh turning it into a game

14:28

so if you have a Hungarian 10f frame and the child builds seven here you could say something like if that says seven make it say nine and they're adding two more if that says nine make it say five

14:46

this really helps students understand how quantities build and how they can contract they can break it down into small smaller pieces

15:00

so let's take it to the tally mark idea these are base 10 blocks so these are larger quantities they're harder to read without counting one by one

15:08

when I look at 60 there I want to get my pointer finger out and count them to make sure I got them all right again because it's bigger than three or four so I can't see the the quantity very quickly

15:18

so if we subitize that now we can see that we're changing the quantity we've got a group of five and one more which makes six and then we can subitize this other quantity of eight into five and three

15:37

and so students can quickly see the quantity without having to get their finger down and count which frees up that working memory so that they can do other steps this applies even in algebra

15:52

okay this example came from a really popular curriculum called CPM math and I pulled this right from from their instruction book and I looked at this and I thought this is such a mess how do they expect students to work with this like that

16:04

so let's apply some subitizing here so if we reorganize it into dice patterns of five now it's a lot easier to see what's going on

16:10

and I can quickly see oh here's a zero pair those cancel each other out but really they add up to zero so I can remove those from the board and here's another zero pair

16:22

so it allows us to quickly identify and see these quantities this is important for all grade levels the subitizing idea is a game changer for a lot of students

16:36

okay then we talked about nearpoint references so graphic organizers now this one is awesome um because multi-digit multiplication takes a lot of procedure to get through

16:49

and so when we use this one we actually introduce it with gross motor first and we get a fist out and we're going to punch in the directionality to go along with the chance that you here

16:55

so step one you're multiplying down in that lower right hand corner you're punching and you say ones to the ones and then the student writes that down then ones to the tens and they punch and make sure they getting that crossbody movement in write the answer down

17:23

then you see in step two I say shift and so honestly if the student is a spot where they can they would stand up hop over and now they're going to shift into the next place value and do the same thing

17:29

we punching tens to the ones write the answer down tens to the T right write the answer down now add

17:36

and students get really good at this because we get the gross motor going and it's easier to remember and we scaffold and slowly start moving these out and the students don't need this anymore

17:47

but now they have a strong visual in their their head of punching in the air they have a chant that goes with it we're tapping into a lot of multiple senses here to help them with that recall

18:07

another example that I love this is a gift that we made for pmas so one of the things that's really tricky for kids is remembering that with multiplication and division you go from left to right and it doesn't matter if it's divide first then multiply what matters is left to right with reading

18:24

so here we start with the grouping symbols with the parentheses or the bars any of those then we move to exponents then multiplication and division from left to right add and subtract from left to right

18:41

and we scaffold this by introducing this GIF then the picture and then we encourage students to start writing it down in this same organization on their own paper so that they create their own nearpoint reference anytime they're taking a test to help them remember remember the steps

18:57

and before you know it eventually they don't even need it they remember what order to do it in

19:04

uh here's an example of buttons so we love buttons especially especially for long division it's so hard

19:11

so we begin with this graphic organizer and you can see that we have really simple language the first step divide the question you should be asking how many groups can I make

19:18

don't say goes into goes into has no meaning in mathematics like let's use real mathematical language how many groups can I make if I start with five how many groups can I make with 25

19:34

okay then we multiply write the amount of groups at the Top Line then multiply subtract compare do I have enough to make another group if you do then you might need to go back and revisit the steps right

19:50

then we can bring down the next number and repeat the steps what we' like to do with these buttons is teach the student use their non-dominant hand their left hand uh for most students and point the steps as they're doing the work

20:02

so that they have something else tracking down the page then their eyes they're touching and pointing to these dots and then use a large box graph paper to help them keep that all lined up so those are some of those tips that I love to share here

20:30

so let's talk about word problems so chunking is a great example of how we can adjust word problems too many of us are teaching students to look for the keywords and problems and Associate it with an operation

20:37

the problem with that is just like in English there's too many exceptions to the rule it just doesn't work so instead let's follow these guidelines

20:50

so allow students to create a vis visual representation of what's happening but we don't want the manipulatives to become an inefficient calculator so teach students to do simple pictures they don't have to be detailed circles squares tally marks whatever you want to do

21:03

help the student move from drawing simple pictures ultimately to writing the numbers

21:14

ah got to click and then my other tip is reveal one sentence at a time this allows students to visualize and draw and write what's happening in that first sentence

21:27

students need time to Monitor and reflect on their problem solving process

21:33

so at school students are taught to read the entire problem Circle those keywords and the numbers and then try to figure out the operation there is there there is very strong evidence that that's not the way we want to do that

21:45

instead we want students to stop at the period draw reflect reason and think about the context

21:59

so um there's some really interesting work from arene Arlene e marzola and we loved what she had to say about helping students with comprehension

22:11

so she says that we need to think before so when you read that first sentence you're going to pause and ask them if they know anything about this topic

22:19

and then you're going to uh think along when you as you continue to reveal one sentence at a time you're asking questions like what pictures could you draw what numbers could you write what operation do you think could work right

22:36

and then we want to ask what do you think the question might be before they even get to that point sometimes they might actually be accurate other times they might not

22:50

then we want to think after we want to summarize this is huge this is is really important a lot of schools are emphasizing this in standardized testing

22:55

teach the student how to restate the answer using the words from the problem to write a full sentence you're summarizing what just happened what's the solution

23:14

these help students learn to process and get all of that juice coming out of all the things that they know

23:26

okay let's move on to math act fluency this is a big one many of you are concerned about this and you should be you're in good company because Middle School teachers report that more than half of their students don't know their math facts

23:33

and of that 50% not all of them have a learning disability so what's going on well let's talk about what's happening in the brain here

23:48

so different parts of the brain are used for problem solving when compared to retrieval of math facts brain Imaging studies suggest that math math calculations Rel rely on interaction between parts of the brain that process the quantity and the visual information and the verbal representation of the numbers

24:08

however rot math calculations are largely using just that verbal system possibly because math facts are typically taught or wrote verbal memorization think flashcards mad minute that's from Blake Moore and and frit in 2005

24:32

so since math fact retrieval is utilizing the verbal system we can see why these students are also likely to struggle with their math facts so recalling math facts is a matter of word retrieval which is an area of weakness for students with dislexia

24:46

however it should be noted that these students may not have as much difficulty with math reasoning due to the many parts of the brain involved in math problem solving compared to the math fact recall alone

24:59

so what I'm trying to say is in other words just because you're bad at math facts does not mean you're bad at math

25:05

my son is 2 E when he was younger everyone thought in his class his teachers his peers that he was just not so good at math

25:11

however when we went and had his testing done it revealed he was gifted in mathematics in the only area he struggled in was quick rapid recall

25:22

and so we were able to switch him into gifted uh education math just in that one area and he excelled he did really well because we were actually challenging what he could do he's doing awesome

25:35

so is it dyslexia is it disc calula is it possibly both in dyslexia we see issues with phonological processing word retrieval and working memory which impacts those math facts

25:47

in Des culia we see issues with working memory numerical seman ICS the how math actually works and spatial representation of numbers

25:59

but what about those students that have both you'll see that they have both sets of those traits and they have a stronger deficit in semantics and that mental representation of numbers

26:07

and that impacts about six and 20% of the student population which still doesn't add up to 50% of students struggling so what's going on why do we see such a high percentage of students struggling with that unfortunately math instruction has left a lot of students to struggle with their math facts

26:33

so it's not just dyslexia and dyscalculia it's our instruction so here's what you need to do number one stop drilling and start teaching strategies help students understand the relationships between numbers

26:45

number two provide accommodations like a multiplication chart or a calculator don't make math facts a barrier to higher level math

26:55

number three use multisensory approaches tap into visual auditory and kinesthetic learning

27:05

number four build fluency over time with consistent practice using strategies not just memorization and number five celebrate progress not perfection every small step forward is worth celebrating

27:20

now let's talk about math anxiety this is such a huge issue and it can really impact student performance math anxiety is a real physiological response it can cause students to freeze up feel sick have their heart race and it really impacts their ability to show what they know

27:45

math anxiety is often caused by a history of failure in math being told they're not good at math being timed on math facts or being put on the spot in front of peers

27:58

so what do we do we create a safe environment where students feel comfortable making mistakes where they feel comfortable asking questions where they're not being timed where they're not being put on the spot

28:15

we help them develop a growth mindset where they understand that making mistakes is part of learning and that they can get better at math with practice and with the right strategies

28:28

and we also want to make sure that we're not inadvertently causing math anxiety by the way that we're talking about math or the way that we're teaching math

28:38

so for example if we're saying things like oh I was never good at math either or oh math is so hard or if we're showing our own anxiety about math students pick up on that and it can cause them to develop their own math anxiety

28:53

so we want to make sure that we're being really mindful about the messages that we're sending to students about math and we want to create a positive environment where students feel safe to take risks and make mistakes

29:10

so those are some strategies for dealing with math anxiety now let's talk about some practical tools and accommodations that we can use to help twice exceptional students be successful in math

29:25

so one tool that I love is the multiplication chart and I know some people are hesitant to give students a multiplication chart because they feel like it's cheating or they feel like students won't learn their multiplication facts if they have a chart

29:40

but the reality is that if a student doesn't have a multiplication chart they're going to spend all of their cognitive energy trying to figure out what 7 times 8 is instead of being able to focus on the actual problem that they're trying to solve

29:55

so giving them a multiplication chart frees up their cognitive energy to focus on problem solving and then over time with practice and with strategies they will develop fluency but in the meantime we want to give them the tools that they need to be successful

30:15

another tool that I love is a calculator and again some people are hesitant to give students a calculator because they feel like it's cheating

30:25

but the reality is that calculators are a tool that we use in the real world and if a student is struggling with computation we don't want computation to be a barrier to them learning higher level math

30:38

so giving them a calculator allows them to access higher level math and it allows them to focus on problem solving instead of getting bogged down in computation

30:50

another tool that I love is extra time and this is especially important for students with slow processing speed or students with working memory challenges

31:00

because these students need more time to process information and to complete their work and if we don't give them extra time they're not going to be able to show what they know

31:12

so we want to make sure that we're giving students the time that they need to be successful and we also want to make sure that we're reducing the amount of work that we're asking them to do

31:25

so instead of asking them to do 50 problems we might only ask them to do 20 problems because we want to make sure that they're able to complete the work in a reasonable amount of time and that they're not getting so overwhelmed that they shut down

31:40

so those are some practical tools and accommodations that we can use to help students be successful in math now let's talk about how we can support students at home and at school

31:55

so one of the most important things that we can do is to communicate with the school and to make sure that the school understands what our students need and to make sure that they're implementing the accommodations that are in the IEP or the 504 plan

32:15

and if the school is not implementing those accommodations we need to advocate for our students and we need to make sure that they're getting what they need

32:28

and we also want to make sure that we're working with the school to develop a plan for how we're going to help our student be successful in math and that might mean hiring a tutor or that might mean doing some extra practice at home or that might mean using some of the strategies that we've talked about today

32:48

and we also want to make sure that we're creating a positive environment at home where our students feel safe to make mistakes and where they feel comfortable asking for help and where we're not putting too much pressure on them because that can cause math anxiety

33:08

and we want to make sure that we're sending positive messages about math and that we're celebrating their successes no matter how small they are because that helps build their confidence and helps them develop a growth mindset

33:25

so those are some ways that we can support students at home and at school now I want to open it up for questions because I know there are probably a lot of questions and I want to make sure that I address as many of them as possible so feel free to put your questions in the chat and I will do my best to answer them

51:45

huge Abby do you want to do next one or you want me to sure okay let's see what do we have here

51:52

um H okay here's here's an interesting one how do we encourage kids to show their math on a math worksheet or possibly how do we encourage teachers not to require that but the question was my son can do his math work but refuses to show his worksheet or do any step-by-step work uh on paper what what do we do uh what age is this student we know

52:14

okay so when you're younger um yeah it doesn't seem like that big of a problem but as you progress in mathematics it's going to get to the point where you can't see what the answer is anymore you can't noodle your way out of it so you have to give them a compelling reason why

52:33

so for me one of my I guess favorite examples is I had a student who was a ninth grader 2E wanted to be a pilot and so I have a bunch of pilots in my family so I called them and I said okay he doesn't want to show his work what compelling reason can I give him

52:47

and they said oh in Flight like his entire career every time you're getting ready to leave you have to show your co-pilot the math step by step to show them and this isn't hard math this is basic math but you have to show them step by step so that they can verify and check okay

53:06

and my brother-in-law let me know recently that he just had to put someone on leave because he couldn't do that he could not show how he got the number for the load

53:19

and so my brother-in-law is a trainer he wrote it all out and said I'm sorry but this is too many times you can't continue to be a pilot anymore I'm going to report you to the training facility and they pulled pulled him off the flight because he can't talk about the load

53:33

so you got to give him compelling reasons and I know that's far in the future but compelling reasons why we got to show our work and we had to talk more about how mathematics is a form of communication and so it helps us to be better at communicating our thinking with other people we're communicating in another language of mathematics

53:51

so give them a compelling reason why so think about what do they want to do in the future how does that tie to mathematics nurses have to show each other how they come up calculations like these things happen uh firemen have to do rapid calculations with ratios to make sure they don't lift one of their teammates up in the air with water right

54:17

so these are compelling reasons not exciting maybe right now in the moment but they're important for the long term

54:30

I really love that yes T get into their passions um one person says my 14-year-old son makes careless mistakes with math due to his working memory and ADHD and desire to be done his mental math is exceptionally strong any suggestions

54:44

yeah so again like tapping into you know what's the long-term goal with the mathematics is really important and then the careless mistakes um be careful calling them that to your child too like it can start to cause like a shame spiral about that

55:00

because it's not necessarily he's being careless it's that his brain is just struggling to keep up with the speed at which he's working

55:06

so one way you could get around this because my guess is his processing speeds faster but there's a disconnect to how quickly he can write it down

55:12

so get that quao app and you can do voice to text he can talk it out or he can write it quickly and it will type it out for him

55:24

but that being able to talk out your work would actually help him speed through the homework right but it will help him with that disconnect of the rapid um processing that he's experiencing and that delay down to the paper is really frustrating

55:38

so be open to using some adaptive devices like that

55:45

all right here here's the next one um one parent asked our son has disra graphia disc calcula and is a nonverbal verbal learner do the math strategies that you presented here serve would they serve a learner like their son or are there additional resources they should research or learn more about

56:06

oh absolutely what we do has a lot of strong evidence um so yes yes yes yes what we do would totally help that child

56:19

[Music] MH and then someone else asks is the psychologist who talks about Stealth dyslexia when the problem is math reading is way ahead ignoring disc calcula are they separate assessments or the same

56:38

they're typically separate assessments um you're going to see the Whisk used uh sometimes the key math the Fifer assessment of mathematics um so the psychologist should be using something like that to look directly at the math

56:52

um so if you do fer assessment of mathematics he has subtypes and what's helpful about that is a student with uh dyslexia is going to struggle more in the subtype around verbal skills needed for math so that's where you're going to see low scores

57:12

but they might be off the charts in other areas with those subtypes which really helps you Target the intervention um I feel like it does a better job than like the Whisk as far as giving information for doing something about it like what can I do to help the student

57:31

so yes it it's different testing than what you would do for reading

57:38

all right we're just about at one I'm gonna ask you one final final question and sorry to everyone who's you know hopefully we got to your question but there were so many um we tried to do our best

57:49

but my final question would be one of the parents asked is there any class that a parent could take to help acquire skills to serve Learners like this

57:55

yes class in the PDF that I'm gonna give to Yale and Abby to send out there are two links you should pay attention to one is Marilyn Zer she teaches classes

58:05

you can either do it independent study where you're just watching her videos and trying it with your student or if you want to start on the path of becoming like a certified instructor like me which I will warn you is very long it took me 5 years to get there so um you could go down that path

58:26

but and you're interacting with Marilyn and receiving feedback and those kinds of things so there's that link then there's also Professor Sharma Professor Sharma is on the East Coast he does free classes every Tuesday at 8 AM Eastern

58:44

every year he starts over so he starts at like basic number and goes all the way up into Algebra 2 teaching it the way that we're talking about so really really good um so make sure to go check those out in that uh print out that I was I'm gonna share with you guys

59:02

thank you so much Adrien this was amazing I want to be respectful of your time we so appreciate you sharing your time and expertise people non-stop in the chat were very excited about everything you were sharing

59:10

and sure share the recording with everyone um if we didn't get to people's questions are you okay with them emailing you yeah absolutely okay post your email in the chat

59:21

and we look forward to sending out all of your um information that you have for everybody along with the recording to everyone absolutely thank you for coming everyone I always love learning out about this stuff

59:34

great thank you everyone for coming see you later and the recording yeah the music list I will get that I saw that in the chat I will get that music list