Instead of seeing neurodivergent kids as unmotivated, problem solve using the motivation cycle to identify sparks and blockers. Experiment and reflect to learn what is in the way and how to support them to start on tasks. See part 2 Rethinking Motivation, Creating a Sparks and Blockers Menu Read the transcript here 0:02 Hi everyone, I'm Teresa from REEL. Thank you for being here. In this short video, I want to introduce a simple and powerful idea we use in the motivation small group discussions. It's the idea of motivation as a cycle. 0:16 Most of us know motivation as getting something done, homework, chores, getting out the door, ready for school. But what if motivation is actually bigger? It's the long-term why behind what we're doing. Things like, I'm motivated to get my engineering degree. I'm motivated to get to school on time. I'm motivated to memorize the entire periodic table. 0:40 Those big motivations matter, but the steps that get us there look very different, especially for neurodivergent kids. And that's where motivation as a cycle helps. In our workshops, we break motivation into four parts. Sparks, flow, recovery, feedback. And surrounding the whole cycle are blockers. 1:04 In this cycle, it gives us an opportunity under to understand what's really happening. So instead of relying on willpower or pressure, we learn what actually helps neurodivergent brains begin, continue, and reset. 1:22 A spark is anything that helps activate the brain so we can begin a task or continue again. It could be interest, novelty, humor, movement, music, autonomy. One example we like to use is a shower playlist. For some kids, showers are overwhelming, boring, or just plain hard to initiate. 1:45 But playlists of their favorite songs to sing in the shower can be great and change the whole experience. It offers just enough activation to get things going to support movement and the motivation to get it done. That's what a spark does. And you will probably need to use sparks throughout your pursuit of your goal and what you're motivated to do. 2:13 It shifts the starting point and it begins to encourage exploration and empowerment. 2:22 Blockers are things that make starting hard or continuing hard. They can include uncertainty, sensory overload, boredom, low dopamine, missing skills, and for neurode divergent kids, blockers can show up quickly and intensely. For example, urgency might help in the morning when energy is high, but at night, the same urgency can increase stress and shut everything down. So, we identify that at night, urgency is a blocker. Same tool, different moment, very different outcomes. 3:02 Understanding blockers help us redesign the situation so that the child can actually access their motivation. And as parents, caregivers, and teachers, we can help our kids begin to understand their blockers and share ideas with what to do with that information. I know even for me as an adult, I'm learning and identifying a lifetime worth of blockers and sparks that are already there, but now I know how to see them in a different light. 3:35 Neurodivergent kids often rely on different activation systems. They don't respond to because I said so or because it's important. They respond to interest, meaning, novelty or connection. 3:52 When we understand that, everything shifts. We stop labeling kids as unmotivated. We start seeing how their system works and we build strategies that fit the way they think and feel. That's at the heart of a neuroaffirming approach. 4:11 Once you begin noticing sparks and blockers, we can walk through it as a cycle. Try a spark. See what happens if you move into flow. Offer time for recovery when needed. and take a moment to reflect on what worked and what didn't. And if it didn't work, that's fine. It's not a failure. It's data. It's information that helps us get it right or better the next time. So that over time, this becomes a flexible, adaptable practice with a simple, common language for both parents and kids. 4:50 What do you think might be blocking you here? We tried this spark last time. Do you think it might be helpful here? 5:00 In another video, we explore how to identify sparks and blockers with your kids. And if you'd like to go deeper, our facilitated small group discussions, offer a supportive place to learn, reflect, and connect with other parents, or join our online community, or comment here. I am motivated to learn more from you and your family's experiences. And as always, contact your child's doctors or therapists when needed. Thank you for being here. You're not alone on this journey.

Smart but Underachieving Child: Understanding Twice-Exceptional Learners Do you have a bright child who struggles to show it in an academic setting? Does your child love to think about numbers or discuss advanced math concepts but resist doing a simple math assignment? Have they memorized elaborate sequences of historical events but can’t remember to turn in their homework? Do they conduct deep, well-reasoned debates with you but struggle with reading or writing? These are hallmarks of a twice-exceptional (2e) child. 2e students possess exceptional talents while also experiencing learning differences such as ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dysgraphia, or anxiety. They often have deep passions and strengths, shining in those areas, but are sometimes seen as lazy or obstinate outside of their interests. Academic Clues: Recognizing the Signs Most students perform fairly consistently with age-based academic expectations in areas like reading, writing, social development, and emotional regulation. Twice-exceptional learners, however, often have a jagged or asynchronous profile. For instance, a 2e student may have a vocabulary and reading level far above what’s typical for their age, while their social skills and emotional regulation may lag behind by several years. Their asynchronous profile can lead to confusing classroom behaviors. A student might hold advanced conversations about a subject but be unable to complete related classwork. In some cases, a learner may excel so far beyond their peers in a favorite subject that struggles in other areas are mistakenly attributed to laziness. When you factor in challenges like executive functioning deficits, you may see a student who understands the material but struggles to complete or submit assignments on time. Sometimes, a student’s deficits can overshadow their advanced skills. For example, a child may have extensive knowledge but struggle to get it down on paper. Other times, their advanced abilities can conceal underlying challenges, such as a student using an exceptional vocabulary and memory to compensate for difficulties with reading, a phenomenon sometimes called 'stealth dyslexia.' Behavioral Clues: Understanding Their Actions 2e learners are often bored and frustrated because their understanding outpaces the work they are able to produce. For example, a student may have very advanced math reasoning, far ahead of age-based expectations, yet their math performance appears average. Deficits such as slow processing speed can make it difficult to complete repetitive, rote problems. While these students would be more engaged and challenged by advanced work, they may not be given such opportunities because of their lower performance on standard tasks. A student who can discuss a topic in depth and demonstrate advanced understanding may become frustrated when they are consistently evaluated on their ability to write or manage assignments on time, rather than on the knowledge they actually possess. These frustrations, especially when combined with traits such as sensory sensitivities often seen in autism or impulsivity associated with ADHD, can lead to meltdowns or withdrawal at school. Long hours, constant reminders of areas of struggle, being pulled out of favorite subjects to focus on weaknesses, and additional after-school work targeting those same areas can all contribute to anxiety, depression, burnout, and further episodes of withdrawal or meltdowns. Emotional/Social Signs: Navigating Relationships Social skills are often a challenge for 2e students. Many are years ahead of their peers in their areas of interest, which can lead them to speak at length about topics their classmates may not be interested in. Their interests may also be unusual or highly specific, like shark species or transportation routes and schedules, making it harder to connect with others. Additionally, social difficulties associated with autism, such as missing social cues, or ADHD, such as interrupting, can further complicate interactions. Perfectionism is another common challenge for 2e learners. Because they often have advanced knowledge in certain areas, their ideas can exceed their current ability to execute them, leading them to work endlessly to bring the 'perfect' vision in their minds to life. Many 2e students have been praised as ‘smart’ from a young age and feel pressure to produce flawless work to live up to that reputation. At the same time, they are frequently told they aren’t meeting expectations in school, which can heighten their drive to meet external standards. This gap between what a student knows and what they can demonstrate in school, combined with perfectionism, social challenges, sensory overload, and difficulties with executive functioning, often contributes to anxiety in 2e learners. They may also receive frequent negative feedback about their performance or behavior and can be particularly sensitive to criticism. On top of this, many 2e students spend much of their day 'masking,’ trying to appear neurotypical, which is both exhausting and anxiety-provoking. Home vs School Differences: The Contrast Many 2e learners seem like a different person at home. Outside of the school day, they have more time to engage in their areas of strength and interest, which boosts self-esteem, motivation, and confidence. At home, they can create an environment that suits their needs, such as low noise, flexible schedules, frequent breaks, or even snuggling with a pet. In this supportive setting, working in their areas of strength, 2e learners often achieve remarkable things that may go unnoticed at school. For example, a student who struggles to turn in homework might be programming advanced software that wins science awards at home. Building a strong home-school partnership is critical for 2e learners. When their strengths, interests, and supportive environmental factors are incorporated into the school day, they can gain confidence and experience less anxiety while learning. Next Steps for Parents: Supporting Your 2e Child If this sounds like your child, welcome to the world of twice-exceptionality (2e) ! With proper support, 2e students can reach their full potential, shine in their learning environment, and become amazing future contributors to society. Resources for Parents REEL has many resources for parents of 2e learners: Check out our Parent Toolkits – including the Beacon Kit, which helps parents better understand and connect with their twice-exceptional (2e) child. Join our online support group or Google group to connect with other parents of 2e learners. Join our expert speaker series or watch our recorded talks to learn more about 2e. If you’d like more personalized support, join our small facilitated groups or request a 1:1 consultation . Read REEL’s comprehensive guide to an IEP for 2e learners to get the school supports your child needs. If your child’s challenges interfere with school, motivation, or emotional well-being, you can seek a neuropsychological evaluation either through a private psychologist or your school district. By understanding your child’s unique needs and strengths, you can help them thrive and succeed in both their academic and personal lives!

When Autism Doesn’t Explain Everything When my son was two, he was only using a handful of words and had only begun walking at 18 months. Because he had more than one delay, we were encouraged to have him evaluated. The diagnosis at the time was PDD-NOS, which was later updated to autism. But that diagnosis didn’t explain everything I was seeing. It didn’t explain how he spelled the word airplane in foam letters on the bathtub wall at age two, or how when I told him there was no dessert at the restaurant to avoid ordering it, he simply read the menu himself, corrected me, and insisted on ice cream. As he grew, his profile became even more complex. He had a highly sensitive sensory system and had memorized every type of construction vehicle. He struggled to connect with kids his age, yet could hold long, detailed conversations with adults about topics far beyond what you’d expect from a preschooler: security systems, airplane types, geography, and more. It wasn’t until mid-elementary school that I finally learned the term twice exceptional, or 2e, a description that finally made sense of what I had been seeing all along: giftedness and autism coexisting in one extraordinary child. What Does “Twice Exceptional” Mean? 2e  students have exceptional talents while also experiencing learning differences such as ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dysgraphia, or anxiety. They often have deep passions and remarkable strengths, and they shine in areas that capture their interest. But outside those areas, they’re sometimes misunderstood as lazy, unmotivated, or obstinate. With my son, I quickly learned that his challenges could easily hide his strengths. His slow processing speed  and dysgraphia made simple math worksheets incredibly difficult, so his teacher assumed he wasn’t ready for advanced math. But the moment you discussed mathematical ideas with him, it was obvious he understood concepts far beyond his peers. I also learned that his strengths could just as easily hide his challenges. He relied on his exceptional memory to compensate for not being able to take notes, his strong verbal skills to mask how hard writing was, and his intense interests to carry him through research projects that were otherwise overwhelming. Understanding Twice-Exceptionality: How Autism and Giftedness Interact Gifted students are often known for their deep interests, high intensity, and advanced thinking. Autistic students are known for deep focus, strong memory, intense interests, and strong pattern recognition. When these traits combine, they don’t cancel each other out, they amplify one another. For my son, the combination of giftedness with the autistic trait of deep focus becomes super hyperfocus . It allows him to spend hours immersed in his passions - like memorizing the entire flight-route map of the United States (go ahead, ask him about any plane overhead and he’ll tell you exactly where it came from and where it’s going), or teaching himself how to push the limits of his 3D printer and repair it himself. His exceptional memory, rooted in autism, pairs with the advanced conceptual thinking that comes with giftedness, enabling him to talk about complex topics with a depth far beyond his age. His special interests have become a source of joy, motivation, and even comfort - powered by both his ability to hyperfocus and his advanced thinking. But that same intensity makes school assignments outside these topics a real challenge. Giftedness doesn’t “cancel out” autism, rather it can amplify some of autism’s characteristics. Many gifted children wrestle with perfectionism  and the need to get things “just right,” but for my twice-exceptional autistic son, that drive can escalate into a meltdown when things don’t go exactly as he envisions. His capacity for hyperfocus is one of his greatest strengths, but it also makes it incredibly hard to shift him to tasks that don't capture his interest . And the combination of advanced thinking with heightened sensory and emotional experiences can lead to big, overwhelming reactions - his sophisticated “what if” thinking can quickly spiral into anxiety. Why 2e Autistic Kids Are Often Misunderstood The cognitive profile of 2e learners often confuses parents and teachers. People sometimes assume, “He’s so smart. He reads above grade level while other students are below. He doesn’t need help.” My son could discuss his areas of interest with the depth and vocabulary of an adult, yet when it came time to write something down, he couldn’t produce work. At one point, this same child, who was ahead of the class in math, climbed a bookshelf because he didn’t know how to start an assignment. It can be incredibly difficult to secure an IEP for a student who performs at or above grade level academically. Fortunately, our school recognized that my son was not meeting the school's age-based expectations for social and emotional skills development , which affected his ability to access the curriculum. He received an IEP for social and emotional support, but nothing that nurtured his strengths or allowed time for his interests. The academic support strategies typically used with struggling students didn’t work for him, because they didn’t address his advanced abilities at the same time. For example, he often knew too much about the topic he was supposed to write about and couldn’t figure out how to organize his thoughts. Instruction focused on helping students grasp the material or write a basic paragraph didn’t meet his needs, and he quickly became bored and restless. This asynchronous development , being years ahead in some areas and years behind in others, is a hallmark of twice-exceptionality. Recognizing and supporting both sides is essential to prevent under-support and under-stimulation. Signs Your Child Might Be 2e   (Autistic + Gifted) Potential Strengths Highly motivated, knowledgeable, and skilled in interest areas Makes connections and detects patterns across disciplines Shows creative, out of the box thinking Displays enthusiasm for learning, on their own terms Able to focus intently on details Needs less repetition than peers to master content Potential Challenges Low motivation for work outside areas of interest Uneven social skills or executive functioning Perfectionism and rigidity around tasks or expectations Experiences sensory overload and may withdraw/flee or have an outburst or meltdown Shows signs of low self esteem, anxiety or depression Finds group work and socializing with peers challenging What Helps 2e Autistic Learners Thrive Strength-based learning  – Whenever possible, give 2e autistic learners opportunities to work in areas of strength and interest. Allow them to research or write about topics that spark their passion - you’ll be surprised by the results! Outside of school, focus on nurturing strengths rather than only shoring up deficits. Working in their areas of strength builds self-confidence and helps overcome challenges. Avoid pulling 2e learners from their favorite topics or electives to provide support in areas of difficulty - these may be the only parts of the school day where they are truly happy. Allow multiple ways to show mastery  – Students don’t always need to demonstrate learning through writing. Can they present orally, create art, build a model, draw a comic, or even perform a dance? (Yes, I once saw a student perform a dance of DNA replication!) Allowing learners to show what they know in ways that work for them lets their strengths shine, rather than having challenges hold them back. Provide explicit instructions on group work - What are the roles that need to be played in the group? What are the key responsibilities for those roles? Who will play which role? What are the best ways for the group to communicate if the project requires work outside of class time (try to avoid this if possible)? Does each group member know how to be in touch with the others? Sensory-friendly supports – Conduct a sensory audit of the learning environment, looking for bright lights, loud noises, strong smells, or other triggers. Offer quiet spaces for focused work or to reset. Executive function scaffolds  – Many 2e learners struggle with starting assignments or organizing tasks. Provide rubrics, clear examples, and break large projects into manageable steps. Use prewriting exercises like mind maps, keep routines predictable, and give advance notice of any changes. Allow plenty of time for transitions, especially out of preferred activities. Flexible school supports  – IEPs and 504 plans should address both challenges and strengths. Ensure supports help learners access the curriculum while also nurturing their passions and talents. Form a team  – Work with evaluators, clinicians, executive function coaches, and educators who understand 2e and autism. Building strong partnerships with your child’s school and sharing strategies that work can make a huge difference. Teach self-advocacy   – Help 2e learners understand how they learn best and how to ask for support. These skills are lifelong and will help them navigate school, work, and beyond. Build a positive identity around brain differences  - Reading books with neurodivergent characters  and discussing real-life role models who have thrived because  of their differences can help kids build a positive identity in a world that often values conformity. How Parents Can Learn More Seek a comprehensive evaluation  – Work with a 2e-informed neuropsychologist or clinician to understand exactly where your child excels and where they need support. Explore neurodiversity affirming resources  – Organizations such as REEL , and the Davidson Institute offer information on neurodiversity and twice-exceptionality to help you advocate effectively for your child. Build a supportive community  – Connect with other parents of autistic 2e children to share resources, strategies, and experiences, and to reduce feelings of isolation. REEL’s Google Group  is a great one to join. Closing: Reframing the Story Understanding twice exceptionality and your child’s unique profile opens the door to the support, strategies, and understanding they need to thrive. By recognizing and celebrating your child’s 2e strengths, you give them the opportunity to truly shine.

Do you know a child who is an out-of-the-box thinker struggling to read or write? Or, someone who can compute complex math at an early age but is frustrated by rote memorization? How about a child with an amazing memory for details but social skills that lag far behind? Watch this discussion about the twice-exceptional (2e) learner. There is an inside look into these children’s experiences and watchers learn specific strategies to help them thrive. Speakers talked about how to reframe the situation, reduce stress, work with unexpected behaviors, and help neurodivergent, 2e children feel supported. SPEAKERS are Callie Turk, Co-Founder, REEL and Abby Kirigin, Executive Director, REEL This event is sponsored by the UCSC Silicon Valley Educational Therapy certificate program and REEL, a nonprofit supporting twice-exceptional learners that builds bridges between 2e parents and educators in Silicon Valley.

Monday, Sept 20, 2021, 7-8:30pm Our recent parent survey results show that anxiety is a HUGE concern for parents of 2e learners. Neuropsychologist Dr. Vivien Keil joins us to talk about why 2e kids experience anxiety as well as strategies and solutions to help both at home and in school. Students who are twice-exceptional (2e) have tremendous intellectual gifts alongside a wide range of possible learning challenges — attention differences, slow processing speed, social immaturity, and/or weak executive function skills, just to name a few of the possibilities. This asynchronous development can make it extremely challenging to meet their unique needs and contribute to significant anxiety. Learn more about the profiles of 2e students, why they experience anxiety, and how parents and educators can help support these exceptional youth. ----- https://www.chconline.org/people/vivien-keil/ Dr. Keil is a Pediatric Neuropsychologist and Consultant at CHC in Palo Alto. She specializes in the developmental evaluation of young children and neuropsychological evaluation of children and adolescents. Her goal as a clinician is to understand the whole child as she strives to balance the clinical perspective with a strengths-based approach. She is passionate about working collaboratively with parents to help them understand their child’s strengths and weaknesses so that they feel empowered to advocate for their child’s unique learning and mental health needs. Dr. Keil earned her Bachelor’s of Science degree in Cognitive Neuroscience from Brown University, graduating Magna Cum Laude. She earned her PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of California, San Diego. Recording Read the transcript here Welcome and Introduction 0:00 - Welcome everyone, we're so excited to have you here. I'm Yael Valek, one of the co-founders of REEL along with Calli Turk who's unable to attend tonight, and we have a new member of our team Abby Kerrigan who will introduce herself momentarily. For those of you who are not familiar with REEL, our mission is to ensure that twice exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent and educator awareness and understanding through resources, tools, events such as this one and services. Brief Overview of 2e 0:38 - Dr. Kyle's going to cover this in a lot more detail but just briefly, twice exceptional kids have both distinguishing strengths and complex challenges at the same time. You can see some of the examples here and just to let you know that REEL has many resources on our website reel2e.org including fact sheets that you can share with your teacher, checklists to check to see if your child might be twice exceptional and all kinds of other amazing resources that might help you through your 2e journey. Upcoming Events 1:16 - We have a few more speakers slated for the fall. We're launching our 2e parent support group with Parents Helping Parents on October 7th. On October 28th we are having a private school parent panel where several parents will share their experiences and we'll also have an educational consultant. In early November the Stanford Neurodiversity Project is having their second summit which is three days of amazing speakers about neurodiversity including three sessions that are co-created by REEL for the K-12 audience. One of the biggest struggles that we hear from people is that 2e students struggle with writing, so the renowned Dr. Susan Baum will be speaking in November to help us with some tips on writing. You can RSVP to all the events on our website. REAL Resources 2:06 - REEL also hosts a Google group where you can ask questions and get answers from other parents on our website and we're also on Facebook and Twitter. You can follow us for interesting posts related to 2e and we also offer a workshop menu that you can share with your school, your teacher, your district. We will come and do any of these sessions currently at no cost for your district in order to help them learn more about 2e students. Speaker Introduction - Dr. Vivian Kyle 2:42 - Dr. Kyle is a pediatric neuropsychologist and consultant at CHC in Palo Alto. She specializes in the developmental evaluation of young children and neuropsychological evaluation of children and adolescents. Her goal as a clinician is to understand the whole child as she strives to balance the clinical perspective with a strength-based approach. She is passionate about working collaboratively with parents to help them understand their children's strengths and weaknesses so they can feel empowered to advocate for their child's unique learning and mental health needs. 3:27 - Dr. Kyle has nearly 20 years of experience working with children and families. She completed her pre-doctoral clinical internship at Children's Hospital of Orange County and her post-doctoral fellowship at the UCLA Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior. Following licensure she worked at the Neurobehavioral Clinical and Counseling Center in Orange County with a focus on conducting comprehensive psychoeducational and neuropsychological evaluations on children and adolescents with both mental health and medical diagnoses. In addition she was a supervising psychologist at the Department of Outpatient Psychiatry at Rady Children's Hospital San Diego where she focused on providing evaluations and psychotherapy to diverse and underserved populations. Dr. Kyle earned her bachelor's of science degree in cognitive neuroscience from Brown University graduating magna cum laude. She earned her PhD in clinical psychology at the University of California San Diego. Introduction of Abby Kerrigan 4:20 - Just before I let her get started after all those amazing accomplishments I just wanted to briefly introduce Abby who's the newest member of the REEL team. I don't want to take too much time from Dr. Kyle but I'll just say hi, I'm really excited to be joining Yael and Cali working at REEL. I'm a graduate student with Cali at the Bridges Graduate School of Cognitive Diversity and I also work part-time in administration at a school. I have three kids, two of whom are twice exceptional, and also have a background in computer science and design so really excited to be working with the team and I'm excited to get to know you all. Dr. Kyle Begins - Collaboration Note 5:07 - Thank you Yael and Abby and I will say I do hope that you also feel free to chime in along the way. There might be questions in the chat box or just things that you can answer from your lived parent experience and I do feel like that's often what can be most valuable for families so please feel free to share your experiences and suggestions as well. I should tell the audience too that Dr. Kyle will present for about 45 minutes and then we're leaving a lot of time for Q&A afterwards so please feel free to add your questions and we will ask them at the end. Children's Health Council Overview 5:48 - I will do my best to stay on task in terms of time and in doing so I will kind of speed through some of these introductory slides because I'm sure they'll be made available to you after the presentation to the REAL community and those who registered. Just a little bit about CHC - we're a community-based non-profit, we've been around for almost 70 years, so we're quite rooted in the Bay Area community. These are our specialty areas: ADHD, LD, anxiety, depression and then autism or you might hear the acronym ASD for autism spectrum disorders. 6:27 - We have several divisions at CHC and if you're looking for for example an evaluation or psychotherapy or anything of that nature that would be our clinical services division. Another really exciting development that is evident on our website but not yet on my slide deck is that we have the Schwab Learning Center at CHC now. Some of you may have been familiar with the Schwab Learning Center - it used to be at Stanford but it is now actually at Children's Health Council. The Schwab Learning Center works with high schoolers and college age students who have a primary concern around either ADHD or learning difference. So something to keep in mind and certainly check out the information that's available on our website. Today's Agenda 7:20 - To kind of tailor things and provide an outline for our talk today, these are all of the things that will be covered. It is a lot in part because thank you to all who registered - we got a ton of questions from all of the registrants. One of the things that I noticed too is that we have a pretty equal distribution in terms of questions about school-age children versus the middle schoolers versus the high schoolers. So we have the full age range here and so I tried to make this talk more general so that hopefully everybody regardless of the age of your child or teen can kind of come away with maybe a couple of new strategies to consider. 8:02 - I will go into sort of the definitions of giftedness, 2e and developmental asynchrony but very briefly because I think that it is sort of foundational with the REAL community that these are things that have been discussed already but I will keep it in the slide deck for those who want to refer to it later. I will also be discussing a little bit about - it's actually Susan Baum who will be doing a REEL talk - the strengths based approach to 2e out of her book "To Be Gifted and Learning Disabled". Then we're going to go ahead and jump into perfectionism, anxiety, how to understand and talk about big emotions and what some strategies are that might be helpful for the home and school environment and also a bit of an overview of the evidence-based treatment, actual therapeutic approaches that are out there for anxiety. Not on Today's Agenda 8:57 - These are the things that are not on today's agenda. We just don't possibly have time to cover all of this and so if your primary purpose in being here were any of these items I will not take offense if you decide you would like to log off. We won't be getting into specific diagnostic criteria or really tailoring interventions to your specific child because we just don't have the time to do it and that requires a considerable amount of thought to figure out kind of what the exact nuance is in your child's profile. Also not discussing advocacy even though this is hugely important in the 2e space, advocating particularly in the school setting. I am sure there will be more presentations just on the topic of advocacy. Definition of Gifted 9:53 - Let's jump in and just talk definitions essentially. What does it mean to be gifted? The word gifted is used fairly commonly in the lay public too. In terms of the clinical science behind it, typically what it means is that you have exceptional cognitive potential and usually that is measured by standardized and well-established IQ tests. Particularly you'll see the Wechsler scales used quite a bit so you'll hear about the WPPSI for preschoolers, the WISC for school age kiddos and then the WAIS for your 16 plus crew. 10:26 - Historically the cutoff has been set at 130, so essentially - and some of you may know about the Nueva 130, that's done on purpose - that is two standard deviations above the mean which is average is 100. So a 130 is two standard deviations above that, so you're basically in terms of your problem solving and your intellectual capacity you're functioning at about the 98th percentile relative to your same age peers. 10:58 - Something to keep in mind though is that there is of course lots of discussion around whether it be the theory of multiple intelligence or anything in that vein. Of course there are other immense talents out there whether it be science, engineering, music, creativity - there are lots of ways that your children can be gifted. But typically in terms of testing when you're talking about evaluations and things like that you're talking about cognitive capacity. The Bell Curve 11:29 - The reason why I throw this bell curve up here is because I think if you look to the far right and you see that 130 marker for example, it is a really nice depiction of how different your child is functioning relative to the masses. Most people hang out in kind of the middle of the bell curve, but if you're functioning at that 98th percentile you are quite different than most of your peers and I think that's where a lot of that social isolation comes in and feeling like you're really really different and you don't fit in. Definition of 2e 12:09 - So that's gifted. If you step into the 2e world essentially what that means is you have this exceptional talent or cognitive ability and you also have significant challenge areas or a disability, whether it be dyslexia or ADHD or autism spectrum disorders. You may also have identified weaknesses that aren't necessarily a diagnosis which would be things like slow processing speed, weak working memory, poor executive functioning skills. Those aren't clean diagnoses like an attention deficit hyperactivity disorder but they're still very much impairing. 12:56 - I think what's hard about the 2e umbrella is that there is so much heterogeneity. So your 2e child probably looks very different than Abby's 2e child or Yael's 2e child, right? And so the challenge there is that sometimes it can be hard to find your community because your child is just different in a number of ways and they don't fit into buckets. 13:27 - I think the other challenging piece of being a part of the 2e community is that it is one of the clinical areas where you have to be collaborating just as closely with the educators as the clinicians. They sit in these two worlds, both of which have a hard time making complete sense of them and so it creates a ton of stress on the family and particularly the caregivers. Because you're struggling to find the right environment and the right teachers and everything like that. 2e Profile Example - Belin-Blank Center 14:03 - This is a graphic of a 2e profile and this is from the Belin-Blank Center. If you have not yet gotten connected with their website, the Belin-Blank Center at the University of Iowa, they have a really strong research presence around 2e. I highly recommend that you visit their website and you take a look at some of their online resources. This is from one of their parent packets, you'll see the website below. 14:33 - What this shows us graphically is that you have on the far right this exceptionally bright kid who reasons at a very high level in the high 90s. But if you take a look at that processing speed, their processing speed is 56th percentile - right smack dab in the middle of the bell curve. That's a big problem from a functional output standpoint and a frustration and anxiety standpoint because here you have this kiddo whose ideas and thoughts are coming at a very deep level but he struggles with just the output of work. So whether that be getting his thoughts on paper or completing assignments in a timely manner, you would think that he might be finishing up things faster than his peers given how bright he is but that is not the profile that he has. It takes him a long time just to get assignments out. Developmental Asynchrony 15:34 - So that profile that I just showed you is a depiction of what's called developmental asynchrony which is essentially uneven development where you have these highs and these peaks and lovely strengths but you also have strikingly significantly lower valleys or weaknesses. That unevenness in development is called developmental asynchrony. 15:57 - You'll see here there are additional examples both coming very much from clinical cases that I've seen. So you've got this eight-year-old who is a phenomenal reader and reading comprehension is exceptionally high but impulse control, emotional regulation, social skills is more like a preschooler. Or on the flip side you've got a teenager who has these exceptional cognitive abilities but their processing speed is relatively slow and much slower than their actual cognitive ability. Why Does This Matter 16:39 - Why does this matter? It matters a great deal because there are large, there are lots of peaks and valleys typically in the 2e profile much more so than your neurotypical profile. Because their peaks and valleys are so great, very often these kids feel - these are their words - dumb, deficient. I think of an eight-year-old girl who was significantly dyslexic but a 140 and she came into my office and said "I know you're going to tell me I'm stupid." That really was her experience of what it was like to cognitively be quite capable but unable to read even at a great level despite all of her - the engine that was inside of her, her LD was so impairing that she felt like she was stupid. 17:36 - So I bring up all of these examples because I think they get at why do our 2e kids feel anxious - it's because there's a ton of inconsistency in their strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't make sense to the average educator, quite frankly it doesn't make sense to the average parent. You might be ahead of the curve and have a lot more knowledge on this topic but I think to the average person you don't expect these striking peaks and valleys. And so we have a hard time making sense of them, they have a hard time making sense of themselves. You can see how that would be a breeding ground for anxiety. Flipping Our Systems - Susan Baum's Approach 18:23 - So what does Susan Baum say? Her and I am in full agreement with her that one of the things that we have to do is try and flip our systems on their heads a bit. In terms of I think certainly my field, the clinical field, is very deficit based. That is literally our training, that is why I went to graduate school so that I would be able to find those weaknesses and then be able to put together some treatment recommendations. That's a problem. It's very hard to identify and grow strengths when you have more of a deficit based model. 19:00 - So I really love what Susan Baum and our colleagues have put forth which are: here are some of what 2e students need. They need a psychologically safe environment - you all know that's easier said than done, we'll talk about some strategies that can perhaps help us get there. What 2e Students Need 19:13 - First and foremost it has to be strength-based, talent focused first. You have to grab the strengths before you go after the challenges. And I think that that order is critical. 19:33 - So for example, your child has dyslexia. The interventions for dyslexia are very very intensive - for those of you who have been in that camp you have to do either Orton-Gillingham, Lindamood-Bell, Wilson reading method. These are typically daily, oftentimes multi-hour interventions to remediate that dyslexia. So I get it why parents and clinicians might say you've got to focus on that, he doesn't have time for his soccer team. Don't do that. If that is his love and passion you don't want to take away their talents, their time for their talents in order to just keep on hammering away at the weaknesses. 20:18 - Think about what if your boss did that to you and if they said to you "Vivian you're really bad at this so Monday through Friday I want you to do this every single day." How likely would it be that you would like to stay in that job? Fairly unlikely. Whereas if you allowed your child to do their favorite favorite things still while then supplementing all of those remedial supports, they still will feel that you're honoring their talents and not focusing on basically all of their deficits. 21:03 - Relationships are key - I don't need to tell you this. I think this tolerance for asynchronous behaviors is a big one, so meaning these kids need to be seen for who they are. I think sometimes especially with the unseen weaknesses in processing speed, working memory and executive functioning, because they're so bright but they can't seemingly do something basic like getting a worksheet done in a reasonable amount of time - unfortunately they're not tolerating the asynchronous behaviors. They probably think the kid is lazy or unmotivated and not really seeing that no, this is actually one of their valleys despite the fact that they have these really high peaks. So you really have to accept and see those valleys for what they are and be careful about the expectations that you're setting for that particular child. 22:12 - Time is oftentimes incredibly important because a lot of kids with that 2e profile have slower processing speeds. And for them it might just be a quote "average" processing speed but it's still for them a significant barrier. Strengths-Based Approach 22:25 - We've talked about this already so I won't belabor it more but I think the most important thing to keep in mind again is that always the way around and the way to improve their weaknesses is typically through their strengths. So grabbing them there - if there is a math issue on board and you know you have a kid who loves baseball, the good thing is that there are a ton, there's a ton of math in baseball. So the more you can apply school lessons and things like that to their world that matters to them, whether that be sports and statistics or baseball statistics or anything like that, that is the path of less resistance if you're going after a math LD for example. Perfectionism and Anxiety 23:18 - Okay let's just jump into perfectionism and anxiety because I know everybody wants to chat about that. Perfectionism defined - what that is is a personality trait where someone, and this is applicable to grown-ups too, possesses an overwhelming desire to succeed at very high levels. 23:36 - There are two camps of perfectionism: adaptive and maladaptive. Adaptive is great - that is what helps you be successful, that is what helps you strive to always improve. If you can have an adaptive perfectionism it's kind of like that lifelong learning concept where you're always striving to get better. 24:00 - A maladaptive version of perfectionism is you know one who basically can't cope with any level of failure. So mistakes are not acceptable under any circumstance. So they want to be an engineer and they come home with a B on a math test and so hence therefore they now have assumed "I will never be able to be an engineer." That is a very maladaptive approach to perfectionism. Bay Area Culture and Perfectionism 24:38 - Something to keep in mind is that it is very much baked into the Bay Area culture. So you can't escape perfectionism in terms of - and anxiety in terms of it being kind of woven into the fabric of our very high intensity, high achievement oriented, high success, high education culture that is the Bay Area. 25:03 - And I mentioned this because I have had the opportunity to work with lots of parents and certainly am a parent myself. You might have your values within the walls of your home in terms of praising efforts and not getting hung up on the 100 and everything like that - that is fantastic and I encourage you to keep holding on to those family values. That does not mean that this bullet does not apply to your family because they're hearing and seeing different things in their school environments. You can only protect your social world so much - they very much are products of the Bay Area. 25:43 - So having honest conversations, especially if you've got a teenager in the house. If you say to your teenager "you know all I want for you is to do what you love and for you to be happy," quite frankly that teenager might say back to you "that's great mom, you just don't get it." And so unfortunately that's an example for teenagers in particular of their parents not getting it because that is not the primary message "just be happy" - that is not the message that they're getting from their peers at Paly or Gunn High School or Menlo School or insert whatever other high achievement orientated school here. So acknowledging that influence in your child's life I think is important so that they feel heard. Anxiety Defined 26:30 - Anxiety - so perfectionism and anxiety exists, consider it like a continuum. You can see how perfectionism can then turn into anxiety. In its best forms anxiety is fantastic, it helps keep us safe. You want your kid to be scared about crossing the streets without looking - that's anxiety, it's fear that keeps us safe in certain situations. 27:02 - The problem is is that anxiety disorders happen when our anxious response, whether it be heart racing or panic or whatever it is or just a more of a diffuse uncomfortable stressed feeling, the problem is when that response applies to situations that are not dangerous. So for example, assuming your kiddo has not been in an actually dangerous bullying situation at school, kids shouldn't feel scared to go to school. So their anxiety is interfering with their everyday task which is going to school. 27:37 - Now I'm not, we're not talking about COVID fear - I think that that's just a part of our fabric right now that complicates things a little bit. But hopefully you see the point which is just that if it's applying to everyday life circumstances that should not be fear provoking or dangerous or scary, that's when we as clinicians will say oh that's more of an anxiety disorder as opposed to just maybe a thread of anxiety. And that's because it's impairing their ability to engage in their everyday life. Anxiety Short-Circuits Everything 28:09 - Something that's important to keep in mind with anxiety - it short-circuits everything. Probably many of us have encountered this as a grown-up - if your anxiety is too high you don't think clearly, you're in more of a panic fight-flight state and that is not when you do your best learning or your best planning or organizing or problem solving. So it's true for our kids just as it is for us. 28:39 - Something else to keep in mind is that anxiety disorders are incredibly common. So if you're in this camp you're in a large camp because about 30% of children and teens will meet criteria for a full-blown anxiety disorder at some point in their childhood or adolescence. So you are not alone, your child's not alone at all. There is a huge community here that knows exactly what you're going through. Causes of Anxiety 29:17 - In terms of figuring out the causes we know that it's a combination of both genetics and environmental factors. Understanding where it's coming from with your child is helpful and I always tell parents you really do know your child best more so than the teachers, more so than the clinicians, more so than the grandparents or other family members who have an opinion. And you might not know the answer and that is okay. If you don't know where it's coming from I think the thing to focus on really is: has there been a change in my child or a decline in their everyday functioning or impairment in their ability to just do things that they previously enjoyed? Those are all red flags to get connected with a behavioral specialist like a therapist or a psychologist or someone who can help figure out what supports are needed. Anxiety in 2e Kids 30:17 - For 2e kids the source of the anxiety can be a number of things. Sometimes it really is the asynchrony and them feeling deficient and incapable in certain ways. Sometimes it has to do with really really unrealistic expectations whether that be from the child, caregivers, teachers. Adults are really good at setting expectations and unfortunately sometimes we set them too high. We don't fully understand where they should be. So thinking about what is the realistic expectation here. 30:59 - If you, when I think about some of the 2e kiddos with really really high verbal IQs, if your kid falls into that camp those are the ones that usually clinicians and teachers, we love them because they are all about verbal communication. What we do unfortunately naturally as human beings is when we assess somebody's communication skills, if they're really really high in that area we tend to set the bar there for everything else. So being mindful of the fact that if you've got a high high verbal IQ kiddo and they've got other significant weaknesses that are far lower than that verbal intelligence or verbal problem solving, it's very likely that they're going to get hit with sort of a mismatch of expectations at some point. Understanding Anxiety - The Whole Brain Child 31:56 - Before we start getting into specific strategies for anxiety, I'm going to back up a little bit and talk about anxiety more just as one of our big emotions. Because a lot of what the interventions focus on are just talking about emotions very simply and anxiety is one of those. 32:20 - For little kids in particular, so your school age crew I'm talking to you here - although if you have a 2e profile where social emotional is quite, is much lower, if you've got a middle schooler but their social emotional profile is much more like a school-aged child this might work just as well for them. This is from the book "The Whole Brain Child" - that is Dan Siegel and Tina Payne Bryson. It's a fantastic book in terms of giving parents a language for talking about emotions. I think this is especially crucial if you have a highly intense emotional child - you need a language, a common language to talk about their experience. 32:55 - So the visual here is very much just using your palm as a brain, this is your model of the brain. And when they're anxious or having a meltdown or just having a behavioral outburst, which is oftentimes anxiety, they call it "flipping your lid." So there's this nice visual here and it doesn't require words. If you have a kiddo who really struggles with that verbal output, after you teach them this model this can be their symbol for "I've lost it," "I've flipped my lid," "I am not in a place" - when any of us are in this space we are not able to problem solve. This is true for grown-ups too, feel free to use this on your significant other because the same thing applies. 34:00 - Because when basically your frontal lobe has gone offline because you're in an entirely sort of anxiety driven state, you're just functioning out of this sort of fight-flight response which is the lower part of your brain as opposed to the prefrontal cortex which of course helps us plan, organize, problem solve, all of these lovely things that we would love to see for everyone really. So this is one useful way to start talking about emotions with your young person. Upstairs vs Downstairs Brain 34:29 - Another helpful visual is talking about an upstairs brain and a downstairs brain. It is very much similar, it's just a different way to think about it. So the downstairs brain is this part right here, it's the one that is essentially your fight-flight response and where anxiety lives versus your upstairs brain which is like your prefrontal cortex - lots of good problem solving regulation happens there. So establishing language around when they're in different emotional states becomes a very helpful tool in problem solving. Personal Example 35:09 - Funny personal story on this upstairs downstairs brain - I was working on this slide deck last week and my son, my six-year-old was home because they had teacher conferences at school so he's hanging out next to me and he's like "mommy what's that?" So I'm explaining to him the upstairs downstairs brain and he says to me "so when I had my meltdown earlier that was my downstairs brain" and I was like "yup that is exactly right." And it's funny because I didn't mean for this to be a teaching tool for him but it was such a funny reminder about how these simple visuals can be really useful even for very young kids. 35:54 - Visuals are great, they are interested in how their brain works. So if you can start laying the groundwork for upstairs brain and downstairs brain it just gives you a way to chat about these things when your child has dysregulation challenges. And then that same evening he came upstairs to get his teeth brushed and he said "mommy I'm in my upstairs brain" because sometimes he doesn't go along with my plans for brushing his teeth and so he was very proud of himself for being in his upstairs brain. So think about how you might be able to integrate some of this language into your kids' life - not when they're having meltdowns. Don't do any of this teaching when they're in their downstairs brain. All of this has to set the stage later when everybody's in a good space. The Importance of Language 36:47 - So what you'll notice is there's a theme of language in the last couple of slides and the next few slides. Language is everything in setting a foundation around managing anxiety and promoting regulation. Growth Mindset 37:02 - So you hear a lot about growth mindset. This is one of the many questions that were submitted so I'm going to try and give you some verbiage that you might find helpful. So how do we promote growth mindset? How do I help my kid think more like that? We want them to be more flexible thinkers. 37:24 - First and foremost, talk about strengths and weaknesses openly with all family members. If you have multiple children in your home and you have maybe only one that has a 2e profile and one that has a neurotypical child, you want to talk about strengths and weaknesses for both of those kids because we all have them. Similarly you want to talk about strengths and weaknesses for the caregivers in the home too because we've all got them. 37:52 - The reason why you're doing that is you're taking away the shame and the stigma of what it means to have weaknesses. Kids, even in their oppositional moments, they still respect and look up to parents. They have a tendency to think that we're perfect, we don't make mistakes. And so the more we can talk about our own weaknesses and our own mistakes the better framework you are providing for your child to get comfortable with that own idea for themselves. The Power of Yet 38:19 - I also really love the idea of the power of "yet." So your child will make all sorts of statements about all of the things that they can't do. Forcing them to add "yet" to the end of the sentence is one way to sort of foster more of a growth mindset as opposed to a fixed mindset. Process Praise vs Product Praise 38:45 - You will also hear about process praise versus product praise. So as much as possible you're trying to praise the journey and the process as opposed to the results. So if you have a phenomenal artist it's very - I do this all the time because I'm tired and I don't really want to think about what a process praise would look like and I'll just say "great job" to one of my kids. Oh I love it. If you can go the extra step to say "I love how much time you spent choosing the colors for that drawing" or "I love the details that you put into that tree," something like that. So you're you're praising kind of the effort that was put into the product. That's another trick to foster more of a growth mindset. Modeling That Challenges Are Exciting 39:38 - As much as possible, modeling that challenges are exciting. So taking on an assignment with your kiddo and saying "oh this looks cool, what do you think we're going to learn today?" or "what are some new strategies that we could learn with this assignment?" or "do you think we'll be able to practice some of those strategies that you learned last week on this particular assignment?" Try and make it as genuine as possible. 40:01 - I know I have had my challenges with Common Core math and I really do try very hard to try and be enthusiastic about the 5,000 ways you can solve just a basic math problem. And that is, I have to learn to embrace that as well because I am a primary model for my child. So if I get fed up with Common Core, which I do sometimes - Common Core math I should say - I will talk about like "okay I'm having a hard time with this strategy because I've never learned this strategy before and I'm not exactly understanding why this strategy applies to this specific math problem." So that verbal problem solving, by doing that in front of your child you are showing them that it can be hard for you and you can still push through it. Mistakes as Opportunities 41:07 - Similarly with mistakes - there are opportunities. These are opportunities to learn as opposed to things to be ashamed of. So for if you have a child who makes a ton of careless errors on math problems for example, you could say something like "oh wow it looks like that pink highlighter is really helping you pay attention to those signs." So you're highlighting that you've, that your child has learned something through the process despite it being difficult. 41:38 - And this is all good because your brain needs to grow and the only way that it's going to grow is by getting stronger in those things that are hard for you. And you can easily do a PE sports analogy here - you know how when I start exercising and then I'll complain that I'm so sore and I don't feel good, it's because I hadn't used those muscles. So this uncomfortable me being sore feeling or you being sore feeling, that means that you're growing muscles. Other Language Strategies 42:19 - Other language strategies - you will hear about and may have already heard "name it to tame it," super catchy. Name it to tame it basically talks about how you need to apply language to whatever the emotion is. Emotions get out of control very quickly and I can't tell you how many times I'm working either I'm talking to one of my own kids or I'm working with another kid, if you ask them how they're feeling when they're having more of an anxious state or meltdown, they don't, they're not able to say "I'm frustrated because..." or things like that. 42:53 - And so the more you can just help them like "I can see that you're scared when you work on this assignment because I you know that there's gonna have to be a presentation at the end of this book report and I know that's not something that you typically enjoy doing." So helping them talk through - they don't have to provide the input if they can't but if you can label it for them you're helping them acquire a language for their discomfort. Connect and Redirect 43:17 - Similarly, connect and redirect. So all this says is basically you don't want to, when somebody's in a highly elevated state that's not when you go into problem solving mode. That doesn't work well. If any of you have ever been in that state yourself and then your significant other tries to say "well why don't you do this, why don't you do this" and they start throwing solutions at you and it aggravates you. 43:51 - So you really need to sort of stop and validate the emotion like "I can see how hard this is for you" or "I can see that your school day was completely overwhelming." When you're in a better space let's sit down and problem solve and come up with things that might be able to make your school day go more smoothly. But we don't need to, don't force it then because they're just not in a receptive state. Left Brain Right Brain Integration 44:15 - So ultimately the goal is - this is a left brain right brain. I am very much a left-brained person, I'm sure there's others of you on this call and then you have some folks who are very very right-brained. Ultimately regulation is integration, so you need to have both pieces to be sort of a well-regulated person. And you can have either in excess. 44:44 - What you really don't want with anxiety is for them to just stay in their anxiety with no language around it because that is a very heavy, it's a right hemisphere activation with little to no activation in the left hemisphere. So to give you an example, severe trauma, PTSD - and this includes for kids with PTSD and also adults who have severe PTSD like as a result of war for example - they have, if you scan their brains, their right hemisphere which is their emotional center is extremely over activated. Their left hemisphere is virtually, it's not active. 45:28 - So if you expose them to certain stimuli you see a lot of anxious responses in their right hemisphere and you don't see their left hemisphere lighting up on imaging studies. So what are the interventions for severe severe trauma which is basically the worst type of anxiety? The interventions are all around language targets. It is about trauma narratives and adding language to the experience. So that eventually they learn that there is a story here that they survived and that story includes yes what happened to them but it also includes them overcoming - it's their survival story. That is the narrative. 46:14 - And once that intervention is successful you then see much more typical brain imaging studies where you have both right and left hemisphere lighting up. That's your goal with anxiety - you want to make sure you can pull in this left logical language brain to their highly anxious experience. Strategies - Home and School 46:43 - So strategies. Here are some home and school strategies to consider. Something to keep in mind is that you're the expert on your child and your household. And really just because it worked for somebody else doesn't mean it's going to work for you. So there's a piece of this that really is trial and error and there's nothing fancy I or any other clinician can say to you about "oh no I know for sure that this will work for your child." So there is a trial and error piece of this that you'll have to go through with your family. Framework - Anxiety is Contagious 47:07 - I think framework though in terms of a foundation - know that anxiety is contagious. It is one of the very rare and unique areas of mental health in that you really can catch it from the environments that you're in. If any of you have had a highly anxious boss just remember what that was like - not enjoyable at all. And there is a, it becomes part of your problem because you have to deal with that level of anxiety as well. 47:51 - So taking stock of where you were at and kind of where your family system is at with anxiety. Because a lot of what we do as parents absolutely fuels our own kids' anxiety. I know I do this sometimes too and I have to catch myself as well. Probably a lot of us did it even more within the context of this pandemic because there are lots of legitimate fears to be concerned about. But think about how you might be contributing to the anxiety within your family system. You Are a Therapeutic Tool 48:17 - And then embrace the fact that within that system you really are one of the most powerful therapeutic tools. So keeping in mind what's my tone of voice, am I problem solving out loud about my own anxiety? I have had many a moment in this pandemic, this working from home state where I have snapped at one of my kids in a way that honestly it was because I told them not to enter my meeting and it was like the third interruption of the day and I snapped at them. That was not helpful or productive. 49:00 - But then going back to them after the fact and saying "you know what I'm sorry I was really stressed out during that meeting, that's why my tone of voice isn't very kind and I just was really impatient with you. I have my moments too. I have my coping skills that help me get through the day" and really identifying what those are. "These are the things that make me feel better when I'm super anxious" - eating chocolate, going outside. These are all great examples of things that help me. 49:30 - For you it's possible if you've got a super verbal kiddo they might be able to say "oh yeah these are the things that help me" - reading my favorite novels, playing my video games or going outside in the backyard and looking for bugs. There are all sorts of options but you really want to have those conversations about what are the coping strategies and make it clear to them that you need coping strategies too because you have your moments as well. Consistency, Predictability, and Flexibility 50:04 - Consistency and predictability is also quite important with flexibility - which I know that sounds like where is the balance? The balance is when it's possible to give options, give them. Because if you have a highly intense highly emotional profile there tends to also be a high need for control. 50:27 - So if it really doesn't matter what order they get their homework done in, give them options, let them choose, tell them it's like an experiment - "let's see what it's like when you do your math homework first before you do your other things." And you can treat it more as like an experiment. Or if they don't have to do three extracurriculars give them a choice and say "you know what we still want you to get practice socializing with your peers, so pick two. It's fine for us to get rid of one of them." Calming Space 51:03 - And then as much as possible having a calming space at home that is user friendly for your particularly intense child. A lot of sensory - you might have a child who has lots of sensory driven behaviors and they might want specific things for that calming space whether it be a weighted blanket or tons of fidgets or a place to play music or things like that. So keep all of those, those are all potential strategies to deal with an anxious child. Positive Behavioral Supports 51:28 - And then keeping in mind that generally speaking when behavioral supports can be done in a positive way the better. So if your child loves to delve into novels and kind of get lost in books, letting them earn more book time for your desired behavior and being calm and everything like that as opposed to when they're having a meltdown taking away their love. Similar to the strengths based approach, try and use their strengths to encourage more desired behaviors. 51:53 - You'll see a lot of commonalities between home-based supports and school-based supports. There is a ton of overlap so I won't go through each one. Testing Accommodations 52:20 - But thinking about testing accommodations is a big question always. Sometimes extra breaks and testing in separate rooms can be helpful for the kids with the anxious profile in particular. It gives them time to sort of just calm themselves during the test. And the testing in the separate room particularly those who have a touch of that social anxiety can be quite helpful. But again every profile is different so do not think that any of these testing accommodations are a silver bullet for all kids with anxiety because what is great for one profile really can be problematic for another. 53:05 - Extra time for example - you see that a lot with kids who have either ADHD or processing speed weaknesses. For some kids with ADHD giving them extra time is awful because they now have time and a half or double time to daydream, which does not help their performance at all. But if you have a child who has a significant processing speed weakness you can see why a time and a half might be more helpful than that other profile that I just mentioned. School Support Plan 53:46 - In terms of what you want your school support plan to be, your ideal support plan really highlights both the strengths and the needs for accommodation, again in that order. It really does matter. These are, language has power. And so you want their support plan to acknowledge their strengths also. 54:12 - As your kid gets older they're going to be reading those support plans and should be reading those support plans and should be participating in some of those school-based meetings. So you really want it written in a way that honors their strengths while also working to support their areas of weakness. 54:29 - And you'll see that there really is a need to consider advanced classes, enrichment activities, acceleration. There are a ton of ways that you can do talent development in your child's particular gift areas. I am admittedly not an expert on that - there are dozens, Yael you might know the exact number of sort of enrichment options for the gifted profile. And if you have questions about all of those options feel free to connect with either REEL or the Gifted Support Center in San Mateo. And Smit, the director there, knows a ton about all of the enrichment options for the gifted profile. Remediation Options 55:08 - And then remediation could look like things like occupational therapy, speech and language for pragmatic language issues for example, counseling via the school counselor. And then you also want to include self-advocacy goals as you, as kids get older as part of their school support plan. 55:27 - So this is just a snapshot of some of the strategies. I think that there is a lot of, and I'm sure REEL will have talks on this front - it's tricky because oftentimes you're working with schools or districts that don't necessarily have the education and the familiarity and the expertise in 2e. So I totally agree that this is much easier said than done and that's why I really love some of REAL's offerings in terms of providing that psycho education to schools and school districts. So know that you don't, if you are in one of those schools that has no awareness of this you don't have to go it alone. See if you can get REAL or another advocate in there to help support. Evidence-Based Treatments 56:18 - So I've talked a lot about kind of language strategies and this kind of leads nicely into okay what about actual treatments, therapeutic approaches to anxiety? And I think it is important because there are a lot of options out there that are not evidence-based. You will not be hearing about those options from me. I'm just going to really focus on what we know about anxiety disorders and what works. Exposure-Based Therapies 56:37 - The first area are exposure based therapies. You may have heard terms like systematic desensitization, exposure and response prevention or ERP which is particularly useful for OCD profiles. So if you have a child who has that kind of OCD profile you really want ERP - that is by far gold standard treatment for obsessive-compulsive disorder. 57:09 - And the goal of exposure is really to expose - I know this sounds cruel - but it's to expose your child or teen to whatever the fears or stressors are and they're going to be exposed to that in a very safe controlled environment with the goal that they can kind of sit with their anxiety and not engage in the avoidant behaviors which is typically what most of us like to do in response to our anxiety. You want to get the heck out of whatever's making you anxious - you can't do that in exposure-based therapies. 57:48 - The good news is before starting in terms of the exposure they also work on coping strategies - what are things that you can do to help calm yourself in the moment when you feel yourself kind of panicking or feeling anxious? And essentially what they learn over time is that oh they can not only sit with that anxiety, they will actually experience it decreasing over time even as the clinician works with them on dealing with higher anxiety, more anxiety provoking situations. 58:27 - So if your kid's got a bathroom phobia or germ phobia, the earlier stages are going to involve you just talking about what makes you anxious or talking about imagining yourself going into a public restroom that seems dirty in the time of COVID, all the way up to potentially actually going into a public restroom which can be quite paralyzing for folks. So that is kind of an example of the exposure-based therapies. CBT - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy 58:59 - Cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT - you'll hear about the CBT triad a lot. Thoughts, emotions, behaviors forms this lovely triangle with thoughts typically sitting at the top of this triangle. The assumption and very research-backed truth is that what we think affects how we feel and act. So the goal of CBT is really to come at it, to go after that thought level of the CBT triangle because if we can change people's thoughts then there will be resulting improvements in emotional and behavioral dysregulation. 59:39 - So you spend time on essentially figuring out what those - you hear about cognitive distortions or automatic thoughts a lot in the CBT space. The idea being that a lot of us who have whether it be anxiety or depression, this is also very evidence-based for depression, there are automatic thoughts that pop into mind that are counterproductive and fuel the anxiety and depression. Common Cognitive Distortions 1:00:06 - So some of the well-known ones are all-or-nothing thinking also known as black and white thinking. An example of that would be "if I don't get into UC Berkeley I will never be an award-winning author." It's all or nothing, it's every, all of your eggs are in the Berkeley basket and nothing else is acceptable. 1:00:32 - Or catastrophizing - you've got you know a lot of kids love their schedules and are perhaps too rigid with their schedules. And you know maybe a kid's mom is like 20 minutes late because of awful traffic and in that anxious kid's head he's thinking "oh my gosh mom probably got into a really awful accident and maybe she's in the hospital or something." That's a good example of just a completely catastrophic thought - there's no basis for it. 1:01:01 - Over generalization would be "because I got a B on a math test I'll never be a successful engineer." That's the over generalization. Or personalization would be "the teacher didn't call on me because she doesn't think I'm smart." So feeling like parents or teachers are targeting them unfairly would be an example of personalization. Goal of CBT 1:01:36 - So the goal of CBT is to basically tackle the cognitive distortions and replace them with healthier thoughts. "Yes I want to be a best-selling author, I don't have to go to Berkeley in order to get there. There are lots of different avenues to be a successful author. Here are some of the other options that would work out quite well." So you make more adaptive thoughts, you insert more adaptive thoughts. Challenge with 2e Profiles 1:02:01 - Now the challenge here and I'm curious if others have tried this with their kids in their 2e profile - I've tried this a little bit within the context of evaluations that I do particularly for teenagers and I'll try and, because their cognitive distortions are usually not hard to pick up during the evaluation process. And so I'll test them a little bit and try and get them to see things or think things a little bit differently. 1:02:33 - Sometimes your 2e profile is really fantastic at staying very very intellectual. So you could talk about thoughts all day and in fact actually some of that thought process sometimes can fuel an existential depression sort of profile - "what's the point, we're all gonna, the earth is going to hell anyways, you know the climate change and the political..." So "why would I just change my thoughts because I'm just fooling myself." 1:03:08 - And so you can get stuck on that intellectual reasoning cognitive level and I think with some 2e profiles the challenge is actually getting at some of the emotional dysregulation and the emotional insight. And CBT doesn't always help in that regard. So just keep that in mind when you're thinking about treatment options for your particular child. DBT - Dialectical Behavioral Therapy 1:03:29 - Because of that lack of focus on the emotional experience there is something really lovely about DBT or dialectical behavioral therapy. I think there's also just a, there's a complexity to the concepts in DBT that I think can really appeal to the 2e profile. 1:03:50 - If you do a Google search on DBT do not be alarmed at the fact that you'll see a lot of DBT for kids and teens who are suicidal or engaging in self-injurious behaviors. That is true, that is where this treatment approach started with some of the most acute profiles of emotional behavioral dysregulation and kids and teens who either had suicidal attempts or engaged in self-injurious behavior. So all of that is true but your child does not have to have that profile in order to potentially benefit from the concepts of DBT. The Dialectic 1:04:28 - The core concept is the dialectic and what that says is basically what is a dialectic - two opposing truths can be true. So you have to find the balance. And the beauty of this is that it honors both perspectives, the two different perspectives which honestly oftentimes I think in the parenting equation it's the perspective of the child and the perspective of the parent. Both of their experiences are valid and DBT allows for that and in fact states that to be true. 1:04:59 - Similarly there is a balance here in addition to balancing perspectives - there is both the honoring and the experience, the emotional experience, and accepting and validating their anxiety, their frustration, their overwhelm AND also we need to change, we need to move forward, we need to find better ways as well. So both are true - that you validate AND you work to change. Invalidating Comments 1:05:27 - So the tricky thing about invalidating comments is I don't think any of us as parents try to invalidate our children. It's not why we got in this game but we do it all the time, so it's okay, all of us have done it. Think about the times your child has been having a meltdown and you're like "it's okay, it's no big deal, you don't need to worry about this, I'm not worried, your teacher's not worried, this isn't the end of the world." So all of those are actually invalidating statements even though your intentions are incredibly pure. 1:06:08 - It's something to keep in mind - you're not agreeing or approving their emotional state, you're just saying "I hear you, I see you." And the reason why we do that is because that helps the other person regulate their own emotions. If you just say "you're overreacting" - you've probably said that to a significant other and or you've heard that from your significant other - that's not helpful, that does not help you calm down. Our kids are no different, they want to be seen and heard as well. 1:06:41 - So it allows for that kind of assistance with the regulation like "I feel seen and heard." And it teaches them - you don't want to teach them to not trust their emotions. If you constantly say "it's not a big deal, why can't you just calm down, you're overreacting," what you're teaching them is not to trust their bodily response. That's not great. We don't, we want them to know and trust their emotional experience and we want to make it clear that they have to work towards some change. Walking the Middle Path 1:07:14 - The other concept you'll hear which we've talked a little bit about with the dialectic is just the idea of walking the middle path which I think is a nice way of describing basically how you've got to balance the two perspectives - both basically the teen's desires and also the parents' concerns, interests, desires as well. So it allows for a lot of compromise talk which is especially helpful for your adolescent crew. The Wise Mind 1:07:50 - The goal of DBT is the wise mind. And so what you'll see here is that the reasonable mind is what you know, what you know in your calm state to be true. Your emotional mind is what you feel when you are not in your calm state - it's your wave of emotions. The goal is always the wise mind which is basically "yes I know this and I feel this so this is what I'm going to do." 1:08:21 - So you're able to take both perspectives and problem solve accordingly. So you learn to trust both inputs to then become a reasonable problem solver who also has some emotional insight. Integration is the Goal 1:08:39 - So to wrap it up, what's interesting here and I didn't happen on this on purpose but what you'll notice - the core goal of DBT is the wise mind and that has been shown to be true and effective for the most acute child and adolescent clinical profiles. The goal of just talking about emotions is exactly that - it is integration of emotional state with problem solving. And so you can see how that ultimately that's the goal whether you're talking to your school age kiddo or you have a teenager who is in an intensive DBT program. The goal is actually the same. Helpful Resources 1:09:38 - So now I know I went over, my apologies. We'll definitely open it up to questions and you'll see lots of helpful resources here. If you need help with language around talking about anxiety, these Dawn Huebner books - these are like $10 Amazon books, they're workbooks and it talks, these are you can do them with your child and it'll give you some pointers around everyday language you can use and activities you can do to tackle some of these challenges in your everyday life. And I think that covers it for now so I'm gonna stop my share so that I can see some of the faces. Q&A Begins 1:10:20 - Thank you so much Dr. Kyle, that was super helpful. Abby and I are going to tag team some questions out of the chat. Yeah okay great. Thanks so much. Okay what I'm gonna do is start way back in the beginning and just ask a few questions that came up in the chat. Question: NVLD and Anxiety 1:10:39 - Okay so the first one was I think way back in the beginning when you're talking a bit about some of the differences that come along in the 2e diagnosis. And this person Scott asked what can you say about NVLD, nonverbal learning disabilities in general and how it relates to anxiety? And then sort of a follow-on question asking if a child who may have been diagnosed with NVLD younger should as they grow older get a neuropsycho-private neuropsych or should just continue to rely on IEP assessments? 1:11:10 - Very good question. So NVLD is absolutely a diagnosis, non-verbal learning disorder. What that means is visual processing is - and this is for the other folks I'm sure this parent knows this - but visual processing is a significant area of weakness. And so what you tend to find are kids who have math difficulties, kids who have significant challenges kind of navigating social scenes because a lot of what happens socially is visual. Think about facial expressions and things like that - that's all nonverbal learning that happens. And so for your child with NVLD that tends to be pretty challenging with them. And then oftentimes a unique sensory profile is very typical as well with that NVLD profile. So yes that is very much a 2e type profile. 1:11:59 - I would say around evaluations it depends if your needs are being met. So an NVLD profile is I would say one of the trickier 2e profiles because NVLD doesn't even have an official diagnosis in our diagnostic manual. And so unfortunately what that means is lots of people don't even really know what it is. It's not like ADHD which the vast majority of the public, especially with the prevalence rates and educators, they know what ADHD is. NVLD is much trickier to communicate to educators. 1:12:40 - And so if you happen to be in a school district that did a pretty comprehensive eval and a lot of Bay Area school districts have licensed psychologists and/or neuropsychologists who are actually functioning as the school psychologist, so if you have a really comprehensive one and you feel like your child's needs are being met then I say stick with it. If you're not sure or you don't trust that or you do have concerns that are bigger than just the school district's support plan, yes I would recommend a neuropsychological evaluation and really not a psycho-ed eval, an actual neuropsychological evaluation because NVLD is pretty unique and it more falls within the domain of the neuropsych background in training. Question: Stealth Anxious 2e Kid 1:13:36 - Thanks for that helpful answer. We have Shirley asking: have you ever come across a case of a stealth anxious 2e kid - very bright, highly people pleasing and thus well behaved, academically doing well, appears to be just fine at school even to some clinicians, but then come home and the parent sees the fears, the tears? And any advice because the professionals have a hard time believing the parent - how do you get help for that child? 1:14:02 - Yeah it does happen absolutely. You can have some kids who are fantastic at masking and essentially putting on a really really good front because their desire to please is so so high. People pleasing at its extreme is anxiety. But I think when you have that sort of profile you really can sometimes keep it together at school and basically use up every last ounce of your cognitive resource bank and then you're done when the kid comes home. And they just come apart and you've got a crying screaming child when the teachers are like "oh he's such a joy in class." 1:14:46 - I mean my recommendation there would be to find people who hear you and get it and continue to communicate with the school to make it clear that it's great that he is performing in the way that he is in school but I can tell you that is not what we see at home and here is what we see at home. And this is a problem that this is the result when he comes home every day because he's so exhausted from keeping it together. So don't sweep it under the rug and keep going and tell the educators until you feel like they get it and they hear you. Question: Overwhelming Schedule 1:15:39 - Here's another one, I think this one's really interesting. Amanda asked about - my child tries to keep it together with all their demands on them but towards the end of the week he's really over it. I try to tell him that there's just two more days of school but it's really hard to get out of the door in the morning. Any suggestions? And I think a few people including myself suggested try to find something that they do every day, give them time to do something that they love every day so they're able to show their strength. But I think that the extra interesting wrinkle here which may apply to a lot of people is that she in this case is doing ABA 3:30 to 7 so basically their whole day is taken up between school and therapy. And I think just generalizing, how do you, what do you recommend to people who are so booked with really critical services both maybe with their remediation as well as their schooling to fit in some of these important elements to keep our kids happier? 1:16:42 - Yeah depending on the age and ability of the child I think I would try and problem-solve a bit with them and figure out what are the non-negotiables in the week. And that might be ABA because maybe they have an ASD profile for example. Maybe it's three times a week - that was my question. 1:17:08 - Sorry to interrupt, that was my question and he's actually not meeting the required hours even though it's 3:30 to 7 because of COVID, closed on weekends. It's basically we're just at minimal hours so even 3:30 to 7 is a few hours of therapy according to them. And I tried to make it as easy as possible - not a lot of DTT, a lot of NET - but still it's an overwhelming day for him because those are two things that I simply can't afford to lose or afford to kind of change. Does he have five days? Yes, so ABA is five days a week, school is five days a week. And I think really he was kind of pushed into it because he used to go to school at 11 o'clock. 1:17:55 - So let me first tell you that he's six years old. So he went to school for half a day and then COVID hit so he was home 24/7 and then he went back to school for a full day. So he was no longer going from eight to 11 and that way ABA worked for us but now it's 8 to 3 and 3:30 to 7. Yeah I couldn't handle that myself. Exactly, that's what I said to Abby, I was having anxiety just writing it. No totally. 1:18:32 - And so then the discussion becomes okay how can we - and it really is a discussion, it's a problem-solving session maybe with you and the ABA provider or you and if there's another caregiver in the home. Depending on your son's abilities he may not be able to engage in that level of discussion but that's too much for a six-year-old. Where is their give, whether that be saying "you know what we're gonna do ABA four days a week and Friday is gonna be next" or going to the school district and talking about is there a way to do a reduced day or is there a way for the ABA provider to provide some push in support during the school day. But oh my gosh no, 8am to 7:30pm for a six-year-old. 1:19:22 - Yes thank you, I totally agree and thank you for those things that I can talk about with the school because I was really to a point where I just wanted to homeschool him because it was seeming like I could be involved and I could do that but I really didn't want him to lose that social aspect. So I feel like I'm taking up too much time but thank you so much for that. Thank you Amanda, good luck with that. Thank you. Question: Grand Ideas and Anxiety 1:20:09 - So Dr. Kyle we have an actually really interesting point that someone brought up about the reverse of anxiety where 2e students will sometimes get very grand ideas that are amazing but they're not able to execute them and so that causes anxiety. Any tips on that? Oh boy, like their grand ideas about starting a company when they're 12 and things like that and you not wanting to totally deflate them but needing to be realistic? 1:20:31 - Yeah, my own child has like he'll picture something in his head and try to make it but he can't make it because he's too young to actually physically make it and then he's having anxiety because of his inability to make this incredible machine that was in his head. Oh good question. So I'm curious what you have done with your little man, so I would love your input too. 1:21:01 - I think what I would probably, I think sometimes the anxiety comes from wanting to do something and then also feeling like if you can't do it now you're gonna lose it, you're gonna not be able to do whatever your idea was. And so my thought process is can you get him or her an ideas book where they can keep track of all of their ideas? It's also really cool because I suspect your 2e kiddo has lots of fantastic ideas. So can you put together an ideas book and so they know that they're not going to lose them if they don't get it done before dinner today. We'll have time to come back to it. 1:21:47 - And then that ideas book can also become a way for you to sort of think through and or sketch out what are the materials that you're going to need in order to make this really cool machine that you want to make. So you're engaging them in their idea instead of shutting them down and you're also engaging in that problem solving like let's think about the steps here. So that you're helping them see oh this is actually probably a lot more complicated than what they originally thought up in their head. 1:22:20 - Yeah I love that answer and you're right, sometimes his ideas I think they're not doable but then he surprises me and does them so I don't want to discourage. And we do, I try to come up with what's an alternative method also to get at what you're trying to do - is there some other simpler step along the way? Or sometimes I have signed him up to do something with an expert that does know how to do that thing. Like he wants to sew stuffed animals, I have no clue how to do that but I know someone who does. It's true, you could learn in your free time though. We could learn together. Question: Self-Advocacy Goals and Catastrophic Thinking 1:23:05 - Abby did you want to ask someone? Let's see we have, actually there was, okay there was one question about could you talk a little bit about self-advocacy goals I guess around anxiety? And then a separate question and I also wasn't sure how philosophical they were getting with it but it was what is the root cause of catastrophic thinking? That feels very deep to me so that's an interesting one as well. 1:23:30 - Yeah let me tackle self-advocacy first. In your, if you look kind of developmentally I think advocacy in the elementary school years is often parent advocacy. Your child is not in a position when they're in the first, second, third to be talking about "oh these are my strengths, weaknesses" and so "these are the academic supports that I need" and things like that. So a lot of that is parent advocacy at the elementary level. 1:23:54 - By middle school it should be more joint advocacy. So you really do want that middle school age range, you want your kid to be a part of the conversation and even potentially sitting in school meetings dependent upon what your specific school situation is. Always by high school you really want the advocacy to be primarily teenage driven. So they're in the front seat, you're in the back seat sort of situation. 1:24:17 - So if you know that's your end goal - before they graduate high school they should be able to independently self-advocate - you want to not only talk about their strengths and weaknesses at a young age, you also want to talk about what works for them. You might have a verbal problem solver who's able to think through things more when they are able to talk out loud and problem solve and things like that. Or you might have a kiddo with an NVLD profile where giving them a bunch of visual organizers and diagrams is a nightmare, it's exactly counterproductive to their profile. 1:24:47 - So you want them to essentially know what their weak spots are so that they can ask for what they need. And so if you're by late elementary school, if you know you've got a processing speed weakness, your kiddo's got a processing speed weakness, in early elementary school you might talk to the teacher about can we do less of this drill and kill homework because these timed and these constant math worksheets are torture. So can we do only the odd numbers or only the even numbers. 1:25:24 - By late elementary school the kids should be able to talk about that themselves with their teacher and really have a conversation with their teacher about "oh these are some of the things that have been helpful" or "you know organizers are really helpful for me" or "if you can remind me, just tap me on the shoulder and remind me to write down my homework, that would be really really helpful." So thinking about basically higher levels of independence as they get older and making those actual school goals as opposed to of course just the usual school goals around academics and such things. 1:26:16 - What was the next - sorry working memory issue - what was the second question? It was what is the root cause of catastrophic thinking? Oh boy, depends on the person. Some folks are very much wired temperamentally differently and parents will be able to say "my kid has done this since he could talk, this is always how it's been." It can also be much more of a learned style particularly if they've encountered lots of stressors in their life or lots of setbacks or potentially trauma. You can see how a more catastrophic style of thinking might be born out of some of your lived experiences. Question: How to Figure Out Strengths 1:27:05 - And I think this will be, we have time for one last question. Somebody asked how do you know your child's strengths, how can you figure them out? The things that light your kid up - that's probably my easiest. So you don't have to, you don't have to pay $6,000 for an evaluation I promise you, though you really, you can if you need to. But evaluations can be very expensive as a way to identify strengths. 1:27:32 - I think what lights them up, what do they spend the most time doing - that is their, those are those are their strengths. And then in addition to that of course figuring out what their personality strengths are whether it be their humor or things like that. And if you really are in the trenches and I get that, that is part of parenting and I think that is a, part of parenting - it's just it comes with the territory, nobody likes being in the trenches but it's okay if you're in that space. 1:27:59 - Where it's okay to say "you know what I can't even see my kid's strengths right now" and that's not a good place to be - you're not going to be there forever. But if you really do need help identifying your kids' strengths, talk to other people who love and respect them - an aunt or a teacher who really appreciated them. What are the things that other people have identified - their energy or their humor or whatever it is. See if you can find some hints from the other people in your life until you feel better able to identify them yourself. Abby's Example 1:28:49 - Thank you so much, that is super helpful. And I've noticed too just with strengths with my kid, he loves to ham it up, he loves to talk a lot and I realize that translates into presentation skills. So we asked our teacher can he not write a script - he has a great memory, has great presentation skills - can he just go up and present? And that removed the challenge and let him show his strength. Love it, such a good example. Closing 1:29:13 - Yeah well thank you so much for this evening. I'm sure there are a lot more questions but it is 8:30, I want to be respectful of our speaker's time. So thank you so much Dr. Kyle and please you can contact Dr. Kyle or the CHC for more support and you can go to reel2e.org to find out about future events and get support in our Google group. So thank you everyone so much for attending tonight. Of course, thanks for joining me on a Monday night, I appreciate it very much. Thank you so much for being here, bye. Thank you. And I can stay on for a few more minutes if people want to chat, I will end the recording.

I’ve been a teacher of writing for 20 years, and let me tell you: Generative AI is here, and it can write anything . It can reproduce the style and tone of famous authors and can even be trained to sound exactly like a particular student. Just upload some samples of written work (mistakes and all), and voila , ChatGPT can complete assignments in that student’s voice. Schools are in a bit of a crisis mode. Some are banning AI altogether (hello, old-school pencil and paper!), but that move just isn't fair to those neurodiverse learners who benefit from assistive technology such as voice typing and spell check.  On the opposite end of the spectrum, some schools are fully embracing AI, believing it is essential to prepare all students for the future. So, where does your Twice-Exceptional (2e) child fit into this polarized landscape? The Writing Hurdle for Our 2e Superstars Our 2e kids are bright, creative, and independent-minded, yet standard writing assignments (like the 5-paragraph essay based on an assigned book) often lead to frustration and "I hate writing!" moments. Their brilliant potential often gets buried under challenges like anxiety, executive function hurdles, and being forced to write about things they genuinely don't care about. When faced with a typical essay, 2e writers can hit three major walls: Engagement:  It's excruciating  to sustain attention on a book or a topic they dislike. Comprehension:  Confusing assignment instructions can cause cognitive shutdown. Paralysis:  Organizing their complex ideas into structured paragraphs is a huge executive function challenge. The Core Philosophy: Sweeten the Journey, Protect the Struggle The key is using AI judiciously. We aren't trying to let AI write the essay! We want to use it the way we use spell-check or voice-to-text: as a tool to remove the mental exhaustion from frustrating, often low-level, tasks. I call this "sweetening the journey". We need to make learning to write accessible while fiercely protecting the critical thinking (the productive struggle ) that actually drives learning. Case Study: How AI Helped Nora Find Her Purpose Let's consider Nora, a sensitive, anxious 8th-grade 2e student with ADHD. Her teacher assigned a five-paragraph essay on White Fang , a book she found disturbing due to its graphic violence towards dogs, her favorite animal. She was completely overwhelmed by the complex assignment. Take a look at the instructions: Write a 5-paragraph essay that answers the following question: To what extent is the main character’s (White Fang) character malleable, and what does this indicate about the role of nature vs. nurture in the development of one’s personality? Nora was paralyzed.  She didn't want to read the book, understandably, and she was overwhelmed by the thought of developing and organizing her ideas. How can AI be used in a way that allows Nora to learn, to take risks, and to challenge herself?  Step 1: Piquing Interest in the Book and Assignment (AI for Engagement) Instead of forcing her to slog through a book she hated, Nora and I used a tool called NotebookLM  to let her "chat" with the novel. Nora uploaded the book and asked her own deep, critical questions about the author of White Fang, for example, "Was Jack London a racist, and should we even read this?"   The AI-powered chat answered using information from the uploaded book (and an additional scholarly article critiquing London that I helped Nora find), sustaining her attention and piquing her interest. Importantly, this chat inspired Nora to research the author’s ( openly racist ) views further, leading to an authentic reason for reading the novel- to see if the author’s personal views affected the story. Next, to tackle the confusing assignment question, we used ChatGPT in Study Mode . Nora wanted to learn more about the word “malleable” in the context of the novel. Instead of giving her the definition of ‘malleable’, ChatGPT engaged her with simple questions that led her to an understanding of the word.  After connecting with the book and understanding the teacher’s instructions, Nora developed a new essay question:  To what extent do the author’s racist views affect how he writes about White Fang’s Native American and white owners? Are they malleable, or is their behavior determined by their race? Thankfully, her teacher was flexible and allowed her to proceed. And for those of you wondering, yes, the author’s racist views were quite evident in his portrayal of the Native American and white characters in the novel. But that’s another article. Step 2: Outlining the Writing (No AI Allowed) This is the most critical part of the writing process. It’s the Thinking Zone. This is the healthy struggle of analysis, where the learner must fully own their ideas. Typically, at this point, teachers ask students for an outline. The problem with outlines, as implied by the term, is that they call for linear thinking and information neatly ordered into lines of text. For a non-linear, highly verbal, perfectionist like Nora, an outline is a deceptively challenging task, one that would quickly tempt student writers to use AI. If ChatGPT can produce a perfectly organized outline in seconds (complete with relevant quotes), why wouldn’t a student outsource this hated part of the assignment? But this is the time to put one’s foot down. Get the writer to step away from the screen and  use any – and I mean any–other method to organize their thoughts and work through what they want to say. Consider the following: Walk-and-talk with a parent, teacher, or classmate Drawing sketches of ideas on index cards (which can be easily rearranged) Storyboarding and comics I’ve even had students use small Play-Doh sculptures to think through their ideas. One student, a dancer, needed to go to the corner, stretch, and think while moving though dance positions. Moving from Ideas to Draft One screen-based but non-AI option involves using a Google Slides template based on the assignment (one slide per paragraph; five slides for a five-paragraph essay). Nora created a slide deck and then used speech-to-text tools (Google Voice Typing) to simply "talk out" her thoughts.     This made the ideas flow easily, a huge relief.  The voice-typed transcript served as a first draft that was printed out and discussed. Step 3: Drafting & Revision (AI for Logistics) Once her draft was solid, Nora returned to technology to remove the final barriers: the logistics of editing and revising. Nora used the Read&Write  read-aloud function to hear her essay read back to her (AI advances enable reading with natural tone and intonation, important for comprehension). This enabled her to note areas that were unclear and confusing. She used a chatbot for feedback on grammar, which felt like "a person who never judges," helping her overcome her perfectionism. Increasing the Threshold for Productive Struggle In the end, Nora used AI and dove into the task, successfully writing a 5-paragraph essay. Importantly, she connected to the novel and found an argument she was excited to make about it. In truth, AI does not need to be present for any of this to occur. Conversations with trusted educators, adults, and fellow learners can– and have for centuries–produced the same outcome.  But if a writer is resistant and student resources are less than optimal, it’s worth considering these new tools. The goal of AI is never to remove the opportunity to do the hard work of learning. The goal is to enlarge the territory in which a student is willing to struggle.  For this assignment, AI supported Nora so that she could focus on the content and sequence of ideas in her written work.  By creating a more joyful writing experience, teachers and parents can help students broaden the areas of writing in which they are willing to challenge themselves. Perhaps in future writing assignments, Nora will take the time to struggle more with wording, punctuation, and tone. Or maybe she’ll spend more time identifying and analyzing quotes from the book she is writing about. She can accomplish these tasks with or without AI.  Before you consider AI for your child, ask yourself: how will using this technology embolden them to struggle more, focus more, think more– not less? ------------ Dr. Jessica Gerard is an ESL and English specialist at Silicon Valley International School in Menlo Park, CA. She has also taught writing at Stanford, Columbia, and the University of Arizona. Dr. Gerard is the founder of J. Gerard Consulting, which provides English language arts tutoring and group classes for neurodiverse, home-schooled, and multilingual middle and high school students. She is also the mother of a middle-school 2e learner.

Our DEAR REEL model is based on academic research and best practices from experienced educators about what works for these learners. The DEAR REEL model consists of four lenses: Develop Connection, Embrace Flexibility, Attend to Strengths and Reframe Behaviors. This video discusses the portion regarding developing connections. Download our whitepaper to learn more about each lens of the DEAR REEL model, including an overview and definitions; personal stories and examples; suggested articles, books, blog posts, podcasts and videos; and additional online resources. We also include detailed lists of practical suggestions by grade level for elementary, middle, and high school. Read the transcript here Did you know that having a classroom where students feel seen, heard, and valued is critical to the success of neurodivergent students?   When connections are developed in the classroom, neurodivergent students feel psychologically safe, enabling them to participate fully, ask for support, and take risks to learn and grow. What does it mean to “Develop Connection”?   It means intentionally creating a culture of belonging where students feel valued and understood. When connections are built intentionally, students are more likely to engage in the learning process joyfully. C onnection in the classroom can lead to increased motivation and engagement and, ultimately, academic success.  Developing connection relies on a mindset of curiosity about all students, but especially  those who are neurodivergent. Educators who prioritize connection: Support students through a neurodiversity-affirming lens  Are curious and try new strategies  Are mindful about their approachability Center student interest & identity Teachers can start by asking themselves, “How does this kid’s battery work? What charges them up? What drains them? What sustains them?” There are many potential strategies to develop connection with students that can be adapted to meet developmental needs at every grade level. Examples include attending school-wide activities to get to know students outside of the academic environment; modeling mistake-making so students know that mistakes are a natural part of learning and growing; intentionally getting to know students using purposeful activities; and creating time for check-ins with struggling students to connect authentically and positively. Connection-building strengthens trust and belonging at every stage. Neurodiversity-affirming connections are developed by fostering curiosity and understanding, encouraging honest conversations, nurturing peer relationships, and creating welcoming spaces for all learners.  By developing connections with their students, educators lay the groundwork for joyful learning, mutual respect, and authentic engagement in the classroom—making it a place where everyone thrives.

You've probably heard the term "scaffolding" in discussions about neurodiversity, neurodivergent profiles, and twice-exceptionality. But what exactly is it, and how can it be applied effectively? In this video, we dive into the practical side of scaffolding, showing you that you're likely already using these supportive techniques in your daily life! We explore how to enhance your scaffolding by adopting a strengths-based approach, focusing on your child's unique abilities to create tailored accessibility. Watch to learn what scaffolding looks like in everyday situations (with a relatable example of teaching a child to bike to school!). How to shift your focus from perceived "abilities" to accessibility and support. Creative ways to leverage your child's strengths (like art or storytelling) to make learning and new experiences more engaging and effective. Why scaffolding is unique for twice-exceptional (2e) individuals and their asynchronous development. Tips for understanding when more or less support might be needed. Scaffolding isn't about doing everything for your child; it's about providing the right amount of support at the right time, then gradually removing it as their confidence and independence grow. It's a journey that's different for every child, but incredibly powerful when approached with understanding and creativity. Read more here: EF Function Cheat Sheet Executive Function in 2e Learners (Video) EF Strengths & Struggles Map Expand Here to Read the Video Transcript Hi, I'm Teresa from REEL. One of the things you probably often hear about when discussing neurodiversity, neurodivergent profiles, and twice exceptionality would be scaffolding. In another video, we talk a little bit about what is scaffolding and how it's important. In this video, I wanted to let you know that you're probably already doing it. One of the ways we can focus it, however, is making it a strength-based approach. So it's not about whether or not your child has the ability per se. That's part of it as their brains develop and grow, but the big part of it is accessibility. And this will change over time. But the idea is...Let me use an example from one of our small group facilitated discussions. The mother of this child really needed their kiddo to ride their school—to bike, ride their bike to school in the morning. This was something that would be very helpful. She was a single mom with multiple children, and she wanted her oldest, who was in late elementary school, to ride his bike. What she told us was a great story of scaffolding. She started out by following him very closely for the 1st couple days, and then, as the time went on, she slowly fell back a little bit on her bike, watched him from afar, but still continued to remind him of the stops that were coming up early. Continued to tell him less and less about making sure to look left and right and left again, identifying cars. The scaffolding was put in place. And she stayed close for a while, and then slowly that scaffolding came off, while her child became more and more confident with his ride to school. So what does this look like in a strength-based idea? Wow! Knowing your child's strength can help you tailor more accessibility, can help you figure out different on-ramps for your child in a similar situation. So let's say one of your child's strengths is that they're a great artist . So , maybe you guys start with a map first before having your child ride to school. Sit down with your child and work on drawing a map. Work on making big red stop signs and street names, and how they would get there, and things like that, and then start the biking route. Maybe your child needs more of a long-term memory input. So you start by slower walks, shorter walks and then work your way towards making sure that they enjoy the full walk together before you even get on your bike, so that the route is there stuck in their memory, and they have an opportunity to walk it, feel it and experience it, using their strength. Another might be that they have a strength in storytelling. This could be something fun also, so that the route becomes part of a fantasy tale, and they learn the route, they experience the route. They understand the complexity or where the map needs to go, because it's part of their story, and each time they ride to school they get to tell this wonderful story in their head about how they need to stop and identify the dangers and make sure that they pass by the magic cottage which happens to be their best friend's house. So, taking the same situation and finding what it is that works as far as scaffolding can be something that you do, and everybody does a little bit differently for their child, because we're going to lean into our unique and special children. So what are their strengths? What do you hope to accomplish as a family, and take one small thing and work on it together in a positive and sometimes fun way. That's how scaffolding works. As you put the structure around, then you can slowly begin to take it away as they ride their adventure to school, living their story in grand excitement every morning. So please know that scaffolding is different, and it's different for our twice exceptional kiddos and their asynchronous profiles. But it's possible. It'll take time, and it'll be different depending on the circumstances. Remember there are some days when you need more support, and there will be some days when our kiddos need more support. So take care of each other, support each other, and good luck with making it accessible in a different way. Please join our community. Real has many more resources, and you are not alone. Thanks for joining us.

M Social skills and social anxiety rank as a top concern for parents of 2e learners. Parents worry their child doesn’t have enough friends, doesn’t attend enough social events, or only engages socially online. Parents wonder if they should place their kids in a social skills class and/or schedule social activities for their children. Or maybe the 2e learner has asked their parents for support in making friends, but the parents aren’t sure where to start or how to support the process. Some 2e adults vociferously object to social skills classes for kids. What’s a parent to do? Listen as three experts discussed these complex challenges across the K-12 age range: Toni Ratzburg of Beacon Wellness addressed elementary age social skills building blocks; Doug Ronning of Gamescape Center talked about how D&D, LARP, and other role play games can be used for social experiences and coaching in an enjoyable, real-time way; and Dr. Hadley McGregor focused on social skills strategies for older adolescents and young adults, drawing on her extensive experience including with the PEERS evidence-based program and her clinical practice. Explore ways to support your 2e learner—and yourself—on their social journey. Read the transcript here Talk about the help and later in November we're also going to have a session about working memory and the 2E learner so we hope you can join us for some of those events as well and RSVP on our website. And just so you know Real provides additional services, we have a Google group where parents ask questions and support each other and share resources for 2E students. You can get all the information we've mentioned here on our website, you can also follow us on Facebook and Twitter and all of our previous sessions are available to watch on YouTube. And just so all of you know we also offer educator professional development workshops. If you would like Real to come speak at your school please share us with your principal, your teacher or your district and we'd be happy to speak on a wide variety of topics related to 2E. So tonight we are very excited to have three amazing speakers here to talk about social skills and 2E students. We're going to have them each do about a 10-minute presentation and after which we will take Q&A from the audience. If during the presentations you think of questions feel free to add them in the chat and we will get to them when all the speakers have finished talking. So first we are going to have Tony Ratzbergsbee. Tony is a marriage and family therapist specializing in gifted and 2E children and families. She is the founder of Beacon Wellness Team, a therapy group that provides specialized counseling and therapy for gifted and 2E individuals. She created a unique training program to coach the next generation of mental health professionals in truly understanding the needs of our gifted and 2E community. Tony has worked at private and public schools for many years and now provides training and coaching for SEL programs to schools in the Bay Area. She is the parent of two gifted elementary age children, one 2E. Hey, great, Tony. Thank you everyone. I need to share my screen so give me just one moment to get that going. Okay, can everyone see it okay? Yes, okay, perfect. So thank you so much. I heard the word excited a couple times and I am, I'm so excited to be here tonight and just like others are this is really exciting to see so many people interested in this topic. And as I was going through and planning it it was amazing how many natural everyday things made me think I want to include that or oh that makes me think about this and so it's a timely conversation that we're having tonight. And as a parent of two elementary school kids I can tell you I know there's amazing influence we can have at this time but it's also completely overwhelming in others. For example if you were to Google like how do we help social skills, how do we help support our kids, you start getting image after image and blog after blog and it can just be like what do I even do and then you add in the twice exceptionality of our children and it can be overwhelming. We know that they're searching for so much and they're trying so hard. I'm sorry I'm getting a little feedback, there we go. But one of the things that comes up too is that as we talk about these social experiences our own experiences come into it. Every conversation I've had with an adult about social skills it's like I want them to have what I have or I want them to avoid what I went through and so it's hard on parents and I just want to take a moment to recognize that. And as I was creating what I wanted to share with you tonight I thought of what would a parent want to hear right, so not just what are skills to teach them but just kind of a game plan where do we go from here. And so talking about what your role is as a parent of an elementary child it's really to ensure that they feel respected in your family and that their inherent worth as a human is valued, like that's game one, number number one. And then after that how do you respectfully help coach them and how do you teach them skills and remember that they are still children and they're learning to regulate through your guidance and practicing overcoming challenges with you providing safety. So there's six sections here I'm going to jump into today that can help you in doing that. So the first is leaning into your child really honoring who they are and what they want in life and I recommend that you get so familiar with your child, know their likes, know their dislikes, what are their skills, what are their challenges, what are their diagnoses and what is giftedness, try to get dive deep get to know them and spend as much time as you can talking with them and creating an environment at home that's safe. Our society doesn't talk about challenges, we like to hide it but what we do know is when we don't talk about it it leads to questions, it leads to anxiety or kind of this restless feeling of what's going on. And our 2E kiddos they can feel really uncomfortable, they can create, have anxiety come up because they feel misunderstood. If we talk to them not only about what they're going through but what maybe others are going through it can calm it down and it can really be reassuring for them. So as you're leaning into your child you also lean into your family, talk about everybody, talk with everyone, you know obviously you want to be respectful of you know privacy between the siblings and things like that. But if you have a child who stims the sibling may really benefit from understanding what's going on and how that's helping their sibling or if one of your child has slow processing speed they might really benefit from saying hey you know this is what this impacts your conversations like and then they're armed with knowledge and they're curious and they're very compassionate. If we model acceptance they get to be children and be loving and supportive and so that's something you can do leaning in. Related to this is to really get to know your child is to give them the why behind something. If you want them to share with you, if you want them to do an experience not only talking about that experience but talk about why that's important and this is also a good tip for like homework or rule following, healthy behavior things like that, give them the why, why does this matter and then find out what their perspective is on it. Because if you're encouraging them to go do something new and they go oh yeah that makes sense I should do it but I'm nervous about it your response as a parent is completely different than if they come to you and say nope I don't share that value with you mom and so you get to know them, you know how to have those conversations, you know what you can do. And then creating safe spaces, this might seem kind of obvious but it's so easy to rush our kids into a situation and so when you're thinking about what are you doing for them if you want them to take a risk make it safe. You can think about a time you were doing something new or you were asked to do something you're feeling uncomfortable about it, if you imagine you know having good rest you're feeling healthy you're feeling calm you're gonna present in one way, if you're nervous if you're lack of sleep or maybe you're not feeling sick it's going to go a different way. So think about that with your children, is you want to set them up for success, help them feel safe, have that solid foundation so they don't have to worry about those things. This might be having a safe person, might be having sensory tools like noise canceling headphones, it might be as simple as making sure they have a hoodie or they know when to take that hoodie off but just thinking about that with that lens can make a space really safe. When you're trying new things and putting them into new spaces think about going small, you don't have to take a leap, if they're anxious in social situations don't jump to a week-long. Well so sexual education is really important and dating and things like that and so I can understand why anxiety would come up now of just like how to get them to play or interact with others and I think just having those conversations is important. When it comes to conversations it can be hard because sometimes our kids shut us down and they're not going to talk to a parent about what we want to talk to them about and so I think finding someone it doesn't even have to be a professional right, like it can be and that can be someone in their corner but maybe it's a grandparent or it's a family friend that you trust and you can give them total freedom to have time with that person. It's hard as a parent because we want them to come to us but sometimes someone outside of it can make a big difference. Abby I think did you say that you saw some questions that you were gonna ask? Um yes okay I have one here that says I'd love to know whether my child's challenge and accepting responsibility for hurtful actions is something that's common with 2E kids and if so or can you just speak a little bit more about that that idea of accepting a responsibility. And I see another related one plus one for hurting people with words as a defense and then digging into the position as defense times ten. That was me and I wonder if I can say a tiny bit more about it, hi I'm so glad to be here, is that okay? Yes so my what I notice about my child she's ten and is that if she makes a mistake or if somebody even speaks to her in a tone that is not even necessarily harsh but is firm or even just serious she takes it really really deep to heart. Or you know she makes a mistake and she's you know there's a there's a consequence or somebody has a has a response to that, you know if she's hurtful sometimes and you know a friend, Casey is your daughter what did your daughter? Autism, ADHD, dyslexia? Oh she's only ever been diagnosed with sensory processing difference when she was really young. She's in a school for gifted learners, you know she's got like a photographic memory, you know I'm just sort of new to this 2E category and I'm trying to understand because my child's having some social issues at school. She has issues with her teachers, you know she gets really upset sometimes when you know when they set limits with her and it's as if she had this like deep deep shame that she's trying to manage or and I just you know I don't think it's a parenting thing you know. So we have a couple of people, someone says my 17 year old is waving his hand as in me too for being very sensitive to tones or harsh limits. And I just I just put in the chat something about rejection sensitivity dysphoria but I don't I am not an expert I just play one on the internet so let's say are panelists. Yes I work with rejection sensitivity dysphoria a lot and I think it's it's pretty common among neurodivergent folks particularly kids with ADHD we'll see it a lot. And I also saw the comment about bullying which I think is but I want to say about the bullying it can be really reparative to have kids just being accepting and so then again finding a group where your kid is you can have a reparative experience and recognize and not cast that wide net of bullying can be really valuable. But in rejection, working with rejection sensitivity dysphoria honoring what the person's experience is and then really helping them to again in an empathy building way what could be of the reasons that this this person may have said this. Now recognizing that if they're dealing with a bully or dealing with somebody that that could be a real right we don't want to just discount their feelings but if if they're when they're telling the story clearly the the the experience could be interpreted in a number of different ways helping them to because I think of rejection sensitivity dysphoria as being a fixed mindset and then moving more towards a growth mindset just in terms of how they're hearing other people when they're expressing discomfort or other experiences that then may feel like there it's a rejection. I love you Tony anyone want to have the you guys want to have your last words because we're we're at 8:30. So I I think we were both kind of waiting for each other do you want to go next or would you like me to? Oh yeah I know I zoom makes it like zoom social skills are so hard it's like so hard no I'm all you Tony go ahead. You know I was thinking about this is arming the child with information and helping them with perspective taking and so validating as Doug said validate what they're feeling validate what they go through and then be curious about what the other person is going through. And sometimes like when I was at a school I could know different people or know the different situation I could you know have you noticed that maybe that's the sound of their voice all the time right like or there might be something they were picking up that really wasn't that different but they were so sensitive to it they could get just something a little bit there. Or we could you know talk about well what if you know they had a really bad night's sleep last night and so they're a little more sensitive in their tone of voice and we would kind of brainstorm what could be all these other things and in that could also be like what if they really were frustrated with you and what does that mean and just try to get them thinking about it and being curious about not only themselves but the other person as well. We kind of normalize that everybody is going through things and everybody feels things. Yeah totally agree I mean I think just that perspective taking is really important and I I think just building that over time in a in a compassionate way where people can feel like they're not kind of being pointed out of like these are your deficits like how did you not see this or like can you not see this but really just kind of asking. I think I I can think of many times where I've been working with kids and I just say how I feel like that really hurt my feelings and I think just like being very honest of like kind of hurt my feelings and and having that conversation just compassionately. Thank you everyone since we are at 8:30 and I know there's more questions in the chat. You can always email Abby or yeah or me or Cali at Real2E.org and then we can get in touch with our experts to get you any answers that we missed. And this recording will be made available so you can watch it again and send it to friends and we thank you all so much for coming. And thank you so much to our experts I learned so much I'm sure you all did too and it was a very encouraging conversation. I feel like I have things that I can go try now so thank you all so much. Thank you, thank you everyone, thank you.

Do you feel stuck in negotiations and power struggles with your twice-exceptional kid? Are daily tasks a battle or a grind? Do you want to feel like you and your kid are on the same team instead of opposing forces? In this talk, Dr. Danika Maddocks will explain why power struggles are so common with twice-exceptional kids and she’ll help you approach these dynamics from a new perspective. She’ll share three powerful, practical strategies to prevent and defuse power struggles - plus real-life examples to help you apply these strategies to your particular family situation. Read the transcript here Welcome everyone. We're so excited tonight to have Dr. Danica Madocks here to talk about reducing power struggles with your 2E kids. This was one of the top topics that you guys selected and last year's parent survey and actually Kelly we could put in the survey for this year too. So in case you're not familiar with Real, we are a nonprofit and we strive to ensure that Silicon Valley twice exceptional students thrive at school by raising parent and educator awareness of an understanding of practical research-based strategies to address their needs successfully. If you're here, you probably know what twice exceptionality is, but we will just talk about how we see it. Twice exceptional students have both distinguishing strengths, high abilities or potential, and at the same time complex challenges such as autism, ADHD, dyslexia, anxiety, and others. And we think of them as being green because the strengths and complex challenges are there at the same time, which can make them a challenge at school in order to support both of these sides simultaneously. Real has a lot of recordings of previous events, blog posts, white papers and a lot of information, all categorized for you by topic on our topic tool at Real2E.org. So please visit our website and learn about school selection, anxiety, and many other interesting topics. We are wrapping up this school year's events. This is our last one for this year, but you can see the recordings on YouTube of all our previous events. We will continue to have our bimonthly parent support group which you can also register for on our website, and shortly we will be announcing our fall lineup. Real is also part of this amazing new neurodiversity speaker series and tomorrow evening David Flink is going to be speaking about the power of mentorship. There have been many other fascinating speakers and more to come in the fall. You can visit Neurodiversity Speaker Series dot org to sign up for these talks. And if you'd like additional resources and support, we do have a private Google group for Real members where people ask and answer each other's questions and ask about resources, of which you can sign up for. We also are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and our previous recordings are all on YouTube. Real recently released a white paper that's available on our website, which is a model for schools with our 4 petals: developing connection, embracing flexibility, attending to strengths, and reframing behaviors. This white paper includes stories of real students in the classroom and how these petals help support them as well as specific practical strategies. So we hope that you will download it and share it with educators in your life. We also have a free 46 page guide to twice exceptionality and IEPs for California, although most of it's applicable anywhere, which you can download on our website to get a lot of tips. I know May is IEP season for many people, so hopefully you'll find this helpful. And we are so lucky to have Danica Maddox here today. I'll introduce her in a moment, but before we do that, I would love to ask you all, we're going to try something new that I haven't tried yet, so hopefully it works. We want to ask you what power struggles you are facing right now. So you can go to Menti.com and type in this code to type in your responses and you can also use this QR code if you have your phone handy. They will appear on the screen live as you type them, so please go ahead and let's see some of your power struggles. I'm gonna try it on my phone too. If anyone's having struggles, just let us know. Oh, I'm seeing some. Welcome to everyone who's just joining us. We are working on this Menti word cloud. Give you guys another minute. I see homework is a big one. Bedtime, video games is big. Getting them in the bath, yep, that's one in our house too. It's getting them in the bath and then getting them out of it. Thank you all for typing these in. I love watching this grow live. This is really cool. Getting them to eat nutritious food, yes, also plus one. Danica, feel free to chime in if you'd like. You know, this is great, it's great to see these. And if you'd like, would you like to start jumping in or do you want me to try the school ones? I think, let's go, this is good. Why don't we jump in? This is really helpful and it's good because I use bedtime as an example, because the parents I work with usually the morning routine and the bedtime routine are common sources of power struggle. So there'll be some examples in the talk and then the principles would apply to kind of all of the things that I saw on there. So, but that was really helpful to see what's on everyone's mind right now, I would say. So let me share my slides here. I'll put these into presentation mode. Oh sure, yeah, go for it. If you like, I can do your quick intro before you start. Alright, so Dr. Danica Maddox is founder of the Gifted Learning Lab where she helps parents feel more confident raising their intense gifted and twice exceptional kids. Danica has supported gifted and twice exceptional families for over 15 years as a teacher, researcher, therapist, and parent coach. Danica has a PhD in school psychology from the University of Texas at Austin and an MA in developmental psychology from San Francisco State University. As a former gifted kid who's raising an intense gifted preschooler, Danica is on a mission to make parents' lives easier so gifted and twice exceptional families can thrive. So we very much appreciate that. Thank you, thanks for the intro, that's great. So as you all know, we're talking about reducing power struggles with your 2E kid. And they shouldn't be hard for you and us being like, it is hard for me, it can't be hard for you, you're grown up, you know, this kind of struggle. And that a lot of times families find themselves in that power struggle where the parents are kind of the stand-in, and like as the parents we hold a lot of that anxiety and pressure from society and we can bring it to our interactions with our kids where we're afraid for them, kind of like you have to be able to do these things, society says this, and the kids like no I don't, that doesn't work for me. It's great and that's why I think the neurodiversity paradigm can be helpful because it can help us see like hey, society's expectations are unreasonable, they're not for us really, they're not a great fit, right, our brains work differently. We need something different and then you can be like a team fighting against neurotypical society instead of just kind of fighting against each other. So for that kid and for any kid I think who's struggling with like an internal power struggle or feeling stuck on things or thinking like I should be able to do this, I think understanding their brain and how their brain works in a way that's not shaming, that's like all brains are different, here's what's cool about your brain, here's how your brain works best, can help reduce that over time. It's like not a quick fix, but I think it can give them a more compassionate framework than society is going to give them. Makes sense. I really love that. I love being a team together against the society. Yeah, yeah. So I think we are at the end. There are so many more questions. Well, okay, I'll do one more teenager one and then we'll wrap up. Sure. My teenager doesn't have hobbies or pursue interests. She says she wants to learn to drive but doesn't pursue it or yoga, etc. You know, she's like, I'm not sure if this is about overwhelm or getting started or I think we had some other pre-submitted questions about motivation. Yeah, yeah, I think, again, these are ones that it's like, it's hard to answer without knowing more information, but one idea that I haven't talked about that might be helpful is declarative language and I didn't put this link for the Real team, but there's like a declarative language handbook. Sure, what we can do, Google it, you can find it by Linda K Murphy and she's been interviewed on podcasts like the neurodiversity podcast and stuff too. Declarative language is just this idea of trying to use declarative language versus imperative language. So imperative language tells the kid to do something, right, sort of like telling the kid what to do or asking them questions and kind of expecting a response. Whereas declarative language is more just like offering information or observations about the situation, the abilities or your own internal thing. And I like Linda K Murphy says, in declarative language, you focus on giving instead of getting. So you focus on giving your kid all the information they need to kind of make their own decision about what they want to do versus focusing on trying to get them to do something. So if there's a concern like, oh, my kid, like she wants to learn to drive, but she doesn't pursue it or yoga or whatever, right, and you're even kinda wondering, like you have some ideas of what it could be, is it overwhelm, is it getting started. You could say something like, you know, I've heard you say you want to learn to drive and I can also see that like it's hard to get started, right, or like, and I'm wondering if there's any way that I could be helpful to you about that or like I'm available if you want that, right? Or be like, oh, you want to learn to drive, there's so many parts to that it can feel overwhelming, there's lots of different steps and like I'm happy to give you more information if you want. Or, you know, this kind of offering, or even sometimes if you want to brainstorm with your kid, like your kid might know what it's about or maybe able to share some insights into like here's why I'm not, like I do want to drive and here's why I'm not. But if you say like hey I know you wanna learn to drive but you haven't what's going on it may be like leave me alone right, but if you're like hey I saw you like you said you want to learn to drive but I know that you haven't started and like I'm just really curious about like what's going on and if there's any way I could help, it's like an invitation and then your kid might be able to say like, oh, it's this thing or it's that thing and you might be able to work together. So sometimes declarative language can be helpful. I think of it as just even like just dropping little descriptions, like you don't even have to have the conversation, then you could just be like I've been thinking about how you said you wanted to learn to drive. You might just say that like over breakfast, right, and just leave it and then let your kid maybe come back to you. So, and just giving plenty of processing time for those types of things that can sometimes create, make it easier for our kids to talk to us, I think. I've been wondering about this reminds me a lot of when the kids were little and we were told to just leave things around the house. Yeah, yeah, exactly, just leave toys out and see what they, you know. Exactly, yeah, and that concept is called like strewing in the home school and like the unschooling and, yeah, a lot of folks find that with their PDA kids, that's really helpful. This driving pamphlet. Yeah, right, where it's like, oh, here's this thing, yeah, exactly, right. Or you could be like, oh man, I remember when I learned to drive, you know, and they were like, oh, like I could tell you stories if you want to hear. Kids love to hear the things we've messed up or that were hard for us, so you could start with that to normalize it too. Okay. So yeah. Love it. Danica, thank you so much, that has had so many amazing practical tips. I really feel like I have tools to try tomorrow, so really appreciate it. I'm so glad, I'm glad to hear that, it's my pleasure, I was really excited to talk about it with you all. Thank you, and I put all the links in the chat so you can get a hold of Danica and join her coaching group and get her slides. And we hope to see you at a future Real event. There's a neurodiversity speaker series tomorrow night, and so...

At the July 2025 PHP REEL Support Group, Leisa, a 2e/neurodivergent parent and professional from Calm in Chaos Co who specializes in organizing spaces for neurodivergent brains and lifestyles, spoke about organizing for back to school. She follows a “strengths-based” philosophy. "What strengths do I have and how can I use my strengths and awareness of struggles to organize our spaces to work for us?" She offered great tips like, “take sensory sensitivity into consideration when designing your study space." "What kind of seating options does your ADHD child have (a variety)?" "Is the lighting comfortable?" "Start small." Read the transcript here Okay, there we go. So, a little bit about me. Um, I am a mom of two kids who have ADHD. I have ADHD. My husband has ADHD. Both my brother and sister have been diagnosed with ADHD ADHD and we have a variety of anxiety and um sort of co-diagnosis autism in there with all of us as well. So I think we definitely fall in the 2E category. I have been an entrepreneur and I have been involved with community building for moms since about 2008. So when I think about, you know, organizing, it's hard to think about like why would we organize um for neurodivergent populations, there's so many other things that we're dealing with. So many like really challenging basic things. I'm seeing lots of things about, you know, school refusal. Um and so it's hard to kind of think about, well, what does it matter how neat the bookshelf is, right? But there's a lot of studies that are coming out that are showing that if you reduce um baseline stimulation and anxiety that it improves general outcomes for neurodivergent folks. So in other words, if they if we feel less challenged by our immediate surroundings, we have more resources to spend on things that are actually fulfilling and interesting and we can use these amazing minds and special skills for amazing things rather than, you know, drowning in mail or feeling overwhelmed by um our study space. So what is organizing for neurode divergent minds? Um, I think, sorry, I'm struggling here with my notes. For me, it's creating systems and spaces that reduce stress, um, support the challenge areas, and really leverage the unique strengths. So a lot of typical organizing strategies with you know pretty boxes and labels that may not work for neurode divergent um populations and that can really feel like a failure. You know all these people are telling you to fold your shirts in a different way and you can't even get your shirts into the drawer. So um really being able to look at something that's tailored for people whose brains work differently and and that can mean a lot of different things. ADHD, autism, sensory processing challenges. Um there's a lot of different flavors of neurode divergence, but for me it in doing my research, it looks like there's a lot of crossover in terms of sensory needs and um executive function challenges that are common in these populations. So I've been helping family and friends do this for a lot of time and I've done a lot of thinking and researching about this. Um, I have started a business doing this, but I'm coming here today as a mom and um, sharing experiences of what has worked with my family. And I'll also use some um, examples from clients that I've worked with as as well. So, the first thing I want to say is that there's good news and there's bad news. The bad news is I don't have the answer for you. There is not a perfect way of doing this. The good news is that there are lots of answers to this. There's a lot of right ways to do this and I really my goal is to help you learn how to identify and deploy some of that. So, we're going to start with iteration over perfection. Um, and this is the idea that there is no perfect solution. Like, how many times have you ordered that, you know, planner that is going to be the planner and now you're going to be super organized and you get all your stuff in it and then it's like, no, that wasn't it. It doesn't mean it wasn't it. it just maybe means that it stopped working for a certain reason. So, you know, really normalizing the challenges that come along with neuro neurode divergence. Um, it can be hard for ADHD kids to wake up in the morning and it's not cuz they're bad or wrong or lazy or any of that. It's just chemically can be really challenging for ADHD brains to wake up. So, how do we normalize that? you know, missing instruction during class, emotional regulation challenges. Um, that's not kids failing. That's not us failing. I certainly have challenges in some of those areas, but it's data. It's a challenge and it's some information. So, I encourage you to be a detective. Look at the data. Um, look at what they're being challenged by. Are they coming home from school and having meltdowns? Is there procrastination preventing them from homework completion? Why? what's happening, you know, find out the information. A lot of times, um, we like in my family, we talk a lot about adaptive versus maladaptive strategies, and frequently they're two sides of the same coin. You know, you hear the strengths become weaknesses overused. It's the same idea. You know, think about the fidget that, you know, helps a child focus in class, but then, you know, the clicking is too much or they start throwing it and then it becomes a distraction. We have experience with a, you know, balanced chair that became a gymnastics apparatus, right? It helped focus until then it became the distraction. Um, my son uses a drawing journal. That's his fidget in class. And it we learned a lot with that because he it would help him focus while he was drawing, but he had to be really careful about what he was drawing because if it was too interesting and exciting, then he would hyperfocus on that and not pay attention in the classroom. So really talking to him about how that strength of recognizing that the drawing was helping him pay attention then got overused and so he needs to be mindful about how he uses it. So that's an example of being a detective and really identifying those strengths. And I want to be honest, you know, for myself, for other parents that I've talked to, sometimes identifying strengths can be challenging. Not because they're not there, but the world around us is telling us that we're doing things wrong. You know, if you've got kids and you've had IEP or 504 meetings, you know, you've heard about your child's deficits and, you know, places where they're not at grade level and it can be really tempting to focus on all of that, but within those, there's a lot of strengths. So, being really able to step back and some of those clues are in some of their maladaptive strategies. So for me personally, I'm a huge procrastinator and I have been my whole life. I'm a late diagnosed ADHD and it was something I was really hard on myself about. So I really had to as I learned as I, you know, did more research, I understood that the procrastination was actually a strategy, but I was really short circuiting it because I'd start procrastinating and then tell myself, well, you're not going to get anything done today. Just forget it. But what was actually going on is I was doing what are called entry tasks. So dopamine is a challenge for ADHD. So I was doing small tasks that I could achieve and create success and create dopamine and then I would be able to do the harder tasks once I was able to focus a little bit better. So what I thought was a weakness is actually something that I've been able to leverage as a strength. So, I really encourage you to take a look at those things with kids and see use that data to um help you iterate and help you, you know, figure out how to make things a little bit easier. So, I've talked a little bit about dopamine and and it looks like from the chat that there's a lot of different um sort of experiences here and levels of experience like some kids have been diagnosed for a long time, some kids are newly diagnosed or in the diagnosis process. So, just briefly, dopamine is a reward chemical in the brain. ADHD brains specifically seek dopamine. Um, and it's there the jury's out. It's either because there's low levels or it's possibly processed differently. Um, this is why they seek novel experiences. Mundane, boring tasks are hard. But also, research is suggesting that ADHD brains don't produce the same level of dopamine after task completion. So, what that means is that, you know, you finish doing something, ADHD brains don't send the chemical to go, "Woohoo, you're done." Um, like they do with with neurotypical brains. And that can make it really hard to form regular habits. So, while consistency and routine is is um something I'm going to talk about is important, it's also something that's really challenging. So, um, being able to create dopamine rewards with music, creating novel experiences, or just by changing the routine, the iteration that I was talking about can help with the executive functioning that comes from increased dopamine production for especially ADHD. Um, I call this next one delight in design and it really speaks to the sensory um, challenges that kind of overlap a lot of the um, the diagnoses and the challenges that we're talking here. You know, do you have a particular smell that reminds you of a of a memory? You know, I was a child of the 80s, so there's some hairspray that reminds me of eighth grade homecoming. Um but for our kids, for me as well, those sensory that stimulation can be really height heightened and sensory feedback, sensory needs are generally more intense in neurode divergent individuals. So that sweater that itches for a neurode divergent kid, it doesn't just itch, it like shortcircuits their brain and means that they can't pay attention for the whole day. So, it's important to understand that that discomfort is strong. Um, and it's important to consider that in spaces. So, whether that's how the chair feels, where the light sources are, what they feel like, are they warm, are they cold, smells in the room, colors, they're all really impactful. You know, my son is very particular about which pen or pencil he uses. And not only because it, you know, decreases negative kind of sensory experiences, but it's also a dopamine source because he likes it and he likes how it feels and it makes him feel good and excited about using that pencil or pen. So, this is a really good opportunity and a good space to get your kids involved in. You know, lots of them have really strong opinions about how their space works, how their room looks. So, you know, use that and really have conversations with them about your observations and their observations about their sensory needs. So, you can start having that conversation and building that awareness in them and then iterating, you know, systems and spaces based on what you learn from that. Um, kind of piggybacking off of that is reducing friction. So, sensory needs can create friction. You know, think about how things are used. um you know, they don't like how the binder feels. The zipper gets stuck every time they try and open their binder. There's too many steps to putting clothes away. If they're having to open the drawer, fold it, and you know, do nine things before they can put the clothes away, the clothes aren't getting putting away. Um having a lid on a trash can mean the trash doesn't make it into the trash can. Same thing with laundry. So, really looking at, you know, what stops them from using systems in their room or in their spaces. Um, plan for decision fatigue. That means being required to make a lot of decisions can really tax executive function and deplete energy. Um, it can be by reducing clutter. It can be, you know, try to have a home for things, a consistent place to put things. Um, that can reduce the number of decisions that they're having to make. Um, and that can mean that they have energy to do other things. Uh I call this next one needsbased visibility. So this is something that I've observed and I think it's true for lots of populations. Um that there is some like you know time blindness and object kind of blindness. Um this comes into play especially with like study spaces, homework management, room cleanliness. You can't have all the things on the desk, right? You can't have all of the things visible in the closet. So really think prioritize the things that are on the desk or visible in the closet by the frequency of use and then split it up by things they'll seek versus things they need to see to remember that they exist. So an example of that is you know my son will seek his favorite jacket, right? He is also particular about socks. So he was just grabbing whatever socks were on top in the drawer and frequently they were not the socks. They were ones that made him crazy. So, we made a basket of socks that he loved and they are out and he can see them and he can access them quickly and then that makes a big difference in his day. Sometimes it's big, sometimes it's small. So, a quick example, you know, you come home from school, you um you have a backpack full of items, you're overwhelmed from the day, and then you have to decide where to put the backpack, where to put your shoes, what to have for snack. And that can sort of that can be it that puts them over the edge and you know some emotional regulation or challenging things happen. So having a consistent place for the backpack do the same routine unpacking the backpack every day. The lunch bag goes on the counter, the homework folder goes on the desk, but maybe you have, you know, two or three versions of this. One for the day where they're having a like I got it kind of day and they can do all the things. and then for a I don't got it and I'm totally overwhelmed kind of day and the backpack goes on the hook and you know they go off and do something else and come back to the backpack later. But there's a there's a routine and a consistency for it. In terms of study spaces, like I said, how does it feel? How does it function? Um my son wants clean spaces. My daughter likes it cozy and lots of things and, you know, smells and candles. So, really think through what that looks and feels like for them. It needs to feel inviting. And similar kind of ideas around, you know, homework and school management. Like I said, how does that binder feel? Lots of ADHD kids especially do their homework, forget to give it to their teacher. Talk through how or why that's happening. Is it a whole folder they need to give them as soon as they arrive in the classroom? you know, for middle schoolers, is it multiple folders? Um, and really kind of try and problem solve how that works. You know, is the binder pinching? Is it too loud? Like I said, does the zipper not work? All of those things can impact their ability to manage um some of these systems. So, how do you make this happen? How do you, you know, help your twoe kid become more organized? Are you I can't believe I was out cold like I woke up and I was like my mouth like open like Whoops. Somebody needs to mute. Does somebody need to mute their phone there? Okay. Um motivational interviewing techniques. You've probably learned some of these at work with reflexive listening, open-ended questions, affirming, you know, really trying to have an open conversation where you're not putting any shoulds in there. You're not judging it. You're not telling them what to do. You're talking through their thoughts about it. Maybe some awareness about their, you know, sensory needs. Um, to help them head in a direction of problem solving, especially at first, being able to minimize transitions. Um, don't don't you know change their whole room all at once. Don't expect everything to change all at the same time. Pick some things where they can have some easy quick success. Um, and it may be that the priorities you work towards the priorities, but you don't start with the priorities depending on you how manageable those things are. And then plan to maintain and scaffold them especially at first. So like if you have expectations around room cleanliness, you get the room to a certain point with their input and then every night you make a cup of tea, you play some music, you make it fun, you make it happy, and you do a 5 minute, literally 5 minute room reset. And initially you're sort of talking it through with them, you're showing them where things go. And then you're stepping back and you're letting them do more of it. It's called scaffolding. And then, you know, as they get better at it, you're maybe then just talking them through the steps and then you're stepping out of the room and you're just checking in with them every now and then, helping them have some, you know, accountability, helping them maintain a routine, and then helping them doing some problem solving and really noticing when things stop working. And then that's when you start iterating. So, um, I'm going to come back to the concrete tips if we have time. Um, so generally let's um, you know, to to wrap it up because I think I'm close here. Be a detective. Iterate. There's no perfect way to do things. Um, change things as their needs, their challenges, their strengths, the demands on them from school change. Notice when something stops working. Delay in design. Incorporate all of those sensory needs, whether it's in how their room looks or how the objects that they're using feel. Reduce the friction. Why is something not being used? Why is something not working? And then figuring out how to make that better. And then planning for decision fatigue and know that they are not going to be able to do all the things every day. And and this is an important process, right? I told you there's not going to be a perfect solution, but it's a process that you two go together. And while you are reducing baseline stress and that's the goal, there's also a really um great kind of added benefit of this is that you're helping them learn some self-awareness and self- advocacy skills which becomes important as they get older and you know we've all been in IEP meetings or a lot of us have 504 meetings and when they can speak up for their own accommodations and really recognize you know sitting in the front of a room doesn't work for me. sitting in the back of the room works for me because I need to stand up. Those become really powerful things and there those aren't things that I can know about their classroom experience. But if they're able to be aware of like this isn't working for me, this is how it feels when it doesn't work for me and here's some things that I know about myself that you know I can really leverage my strengths to make this better. Um that that is a really wonderful outcome of this. So, if we can continue to help them learn how to trust themselves and not be short circuited by the shoulds that they're experiencing all around them, I think that that's a that's an important part of this. So, this is me. Uh my fear is that, you know, I'm going to be one more should in your life. And that's really not what I want to be. Um I am constantly iterating. I am constantly not perfect. I am constantly challenged. This is my current kitchen counter. and my desk as I was getting ready for this presentation. So, I encourage you to give yourself grace. I encourage you to give yourself time and space to learn skills that you may not have that will help you scaffold for your kids. And, you know, reaching out to groups like this and um you know, parent coaches in your community can can really help. So, thank you

Kick off Neurodiversity Celebration week with a lively panel discussion featuring neurodivergent young adults reflecting on their K-12 experiences. We will discuss how students' strengths helped them overcome challenges, what schools and parents can do to best support K-12 2e learners, and hear advice for students who are struggling. Siena Castellon says, "I founded Neurodiversity Celebration Week in 2018 because I wanted to change the way learning differences are perceived. As a teenager who is autistic and has ADHD, dyslexia, and dyspraxia, my experience has been that people often focus on the challenges of neurological diversity. I wanted to change the narrative and create a balanced view which focuses equally on our talents and strengths.” Read the transcript below Thank you everyone for joining us today to kick off neurodiversity celebration week with our student panel. We're so excited to have them here in case you're not familiar with real. We are a local Silicon Valley nonprofit, and we work to ensure that twice exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent and educator awareness and understanding of strategies to address their needs. And I'll go more into that in a minute. So just in case, if you're here, you're probably familiar with twice exceptionality. But just in case the definition we use is the one from the Bridges Center. and we like to think of being 2 e. As being green. So you have yellow, distinguishing strengths, high abilities or potential in one or more areas. And you can also have complex learning challenges, such as autism, dyslexia, Adhd, anxiety, or others, and you are always operating in the green, which makes 2 E students a complicated profile for educators, because they need to have both their distinguishing strengths and their complex challenges addressed at the same time. Real has a very robust website with a lot of our previous recorded talks, resources we've created on many topics that you, some of which you can see here. So please go to our site and browse for information on any of these topics. In addition, we are. This is one of our exciting keynote events, and we have another talk coming up may 7th about supporting executive functioning at home. And we also have our bi-monthly parent support group, where you can go into breakout rooms with other parents around your areas of interest and support one another. So please sign up for those, and soon we'll be releasing our fall schedule. And we are also part of a group that's running the Neurodiversity Education series. And these are a series of talks about all kinds of things related to neurodiversity. And we're very excited to announce that Emily Kircher Morris, who's very well known for her books and support, is going to be speaking about managing all the fields on March 19, th coming up soon, so you can sign up for that on their website. Real also has a private Google group with hundreds of local parents. You can sign up to ask questions and get advice and suggestions. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin and all of our previous recordings are on Youtube. So you're welcome to follow us on any of those. And I'll put those links in the chat in a minute. Real also does educator workshops using our dear, real model. We talk about the importance of flexibility, strengths, reframing behaviors and developing connection with our educators. So if you'd like to bring us to your school, we've worked with dozens of local bay area schools to do neurodiversity simulations and other workshops about any two-year neurodiversity topics. We also have developed a 46 page Iep guide that's available for free on our website about Iep, specifically for twice exceptional students, although it is designed for the California Bay area, a lot of it is applicable anywhere. Twice exceptional students often have trouble getting ieps in school. So this is a guide to help you understand that process. So this is Neurodiversity celebration Week, which was started by a student named Sienna Castellan, who founded it because she wanted to change the way learning differences were perceived. She is autistic, has Adhd dyslexia and dyspraxia, and she says everyone always was focusing on her challenges, and she wanted to change the narrative and also talk about strengths and talents. So the neurodiversity celebration week website has all kinds of talks, resources, ways. Your school can join and sign up posters. You can put around all kinds of amazing things so highly recommend visiting their website and recommending it to your school and or attending some of their talks. I'll put these links in the chat, but we have some ways that you can celebrate neurodiversity celebration week by bringing these resources to your schools. A list of books that your school, library or classroom library might want to carry resources you can share with your educators, etc. And I'd love now to give it to Praveen our moderator for today and introduce you to Ella Reese, Amishi, Lucy Kash, and Ila, who are a combination of high schoolers and college students and recent graduates to give you their perspective. On K. 12. So Hi, my name is Praveen. I am currently a junior at Los Gatos High School here in the Bay area. I've been really involved with neurodiversity advocacy. Since I was really young, as I have an elder sister who has autism. And I've really been fascinated in trying to navigate how neurodiversity. Advocacy can lead to better rights and opportunities for neurodiverse people. I was a part of Stanford's neurodiversity project their 2023 S. And P. Reach summer camp, and I'm continuing to pursue that in their Stanford the Nea program, which is a K. Through 12 educational advocacy as well. I'm super excited for this talk, and my hobbies are playing soccer piano and spending time outdoors with my family. And so now I'm going to hand the mic over to Ella to introduce herself. as well. Hi, I'm Ella. I'm currently a sophomore in the Bay Area. I have autism, and I enjoy reading, writing, drawing, and humanities focused courses. I'm proud to be part of this meeting and to have worked with neurodiverse organizations in the past, and I'm glad to be willing to answer any questions in the foreseeable future. I pass this talk along to Reese, who is also nice. Hi, thank you, Ella. I'm Reese Langdon. I'm a senior at the college preparatory school in Oakland, California. I would say I'm a passionate advocate for neurodiversity, both for myself and for others. Like Praveen and Ella. I am a part of Stanford's neurodiversity network for education and advocacy. I lead the social media subcommittee, and, as Ella said, I'd be happy to answer any questions, and in my free time I love listening and playing, music, exploring, fashion, writing and swimming. Thank you so much, Reese. Handing the mic over to Emmacy. Hi, I'm a freshman at Johns Hopkins University, and I'm planning on majoring in cognitive science. I was diagnosed in 6th or 7th grade with Adhd, and more recently with hypermobile Ehlers-danlos syndrome, which is a connective tissue disorder that shares some of the similar genetic markers. A year ago I created a prototype for a game simulating Adhd in a school setting with the goal of helping develop empathy in the wider audience for neurodiverse students. And I plan on developing that further in the future. I love to draw and write. And I'm currently working on a very self-indulgent novel. Thank you so much. Amnesty. Lucy, you want to go next. Yeah. My name is Lucy. I was diagnosed with autism when I was 18, and it explained a lot. I started college and was really interested in how autistic and neurodivergent people learn. So I started a tutoring business working with neurodivergent students, ages K, through 12. That's not really ages. I am hoping to go to grad school, study cognitive psychology and do formal research in this area. In my free time I run around with my dog, who is about as clumsy as I am. So it's really funny. She's currently flailing on the couch. Thank you so much, Lucy. Kash, do you want to go next. Sure. Hi! I'm kosh I am currently a 1st year undergraduate at New York University. Before that I was in high School in California, in Palo Alto, California, at Kajila, Jewish High School. And I am currently studying music specifically classical composition. And so I really want to raise awareness both of neuroatypical people in music and of music, in the community of twice exceptional people where it's often overlooked. I'm excited to share my perspective on being neurodiverse in the creative field and in my spare time I'm a writer, and I make constructed languages. Thank you so much. Kash. And then last, but not least, Ella. Yeah. Hi, my name is Ila Perinkulum, and I am a second year college student at Santa Clara University. And I am currently studying neuroscience with a minor in religion. I have been working with the neurodiverse diversity community since sophomore, my sophomore year of high school. And I'm also a neurodiverse student. I have recently started working on a project that focuses on that focuses on creating empathy and compassion between neurodiverse and non and neurotypical people. And in my free time, I enjoy singing, dancing, just watching movies. Just anything really, in the creative field. Thank you so much, Hila. So now I just want to go ahead and jump right into some of the some of the questions, so we can have a really great discussion and hear everyone's perspective on different topics. So starting with Emsi, what positive experiences did you have at school being neurodiverse. And can you also explain some of the challenges as well. Sure. So on the positive side of things, it's a little bit of a tougher question. I went to a smaller French school, and culturally, I feel they may be lagging a little bit more behind than American schools. For example, the standard. There is 1 3rd extra time instead of one half. And that's just like one of the many differences between how Americans treat neurodiversity versus over there. And that, said, I think, being a member of my School's Diversity Committee helped me connect with the neurodiversity community on campus which made me feel a lot less alone. Dealing with being neurodiverse can sometimes feel like a very personal and isolating struggle, and having people to talk to who can relate and understand you allows you to feel a lot less alone. I also think, being neurodiverse at school helped me learn how to stand up for myself and self advocate, because I was often put into situations where there was nobody else to do that for me. I used to be a lot more shy and quiet, but I believe that, like self-advocacy, is a really beneficial skill that is applicable, not just in school, but in many other domains, because. No wrestling up, no. Knowing how to stand up for yourself, makes people take you more seriously and less likely to take advantage of you. As for challenges, I think one of the main ones was teachers, not respecting my accommodations, which is where the self advocacy came into play. Sometimes it was that they would just not give me the quiet room or not. Give extra time or not like, have basically just not listen to my accommodations, either because they didn't understand them, or because they felt I didn't need them. Thank you so much. Emmacy. Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing your insight, especially on the accommodations that a lot of schools overlook. Kash, do you want to go next. Sure, as far as positive experiences, I definitely will say, that I think being neurodiverse has helped with learning how to stand up for myself in some ways. That's also a challenge. I think. some of my toughest experiences were actually. when I stood up for myself a bit too vigorously, as it were. and I think that one of the things that I learned kind of was how to get your message across to people in a way that doesn't put them on the defensive. in a way that like is fostering constructive dialogue when sometimes that's just very hard to do. And I also will say that sometimes I do feel like it's been actually, really, academically beneficial. And I don't just mean the gifted part of the twice exceptionality. I find that, like as I've progressed further and further into education, like starting second half of middle school moving up through each year in high school. I felt like more and more the ability to hyper focus on things, the ability to kind of jump quickly between tasks, the ability to kind of make unusual connections that people might not immediately think of. Those things have kind of all turned into things that are things that I'll see a lot of people who aren't neurodiverse struggling with. And then a lot of neurotypical people. having an easier time with. And that was me as well. So yeah, I definitely think that sometimes it really just it will eventually. And there's hopefully a ray of light at the end of the tunnel. For some people. It eventually starts becoming almost as much an advantage academically as it might be. feeling like a detriment. And there's as far as challenges go as I've mentioned, it's difficult to know when is the time to stand up for yourself or stand up for other people, for that matter? It's also very hard, because I have, pretty much through my entire life, gone to private schools and their requirements, as far as following accommodations are far looser and far harder to enforce. So a lot of times, I ultimately have actually had more success going through teachers directly than going through a like student wellness center, or a similar situation, which was kind of difficult to figure out. So you know, you have to learn to hack the system a fair bit sometimes. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Learning to advocate for yourself is such a such a big it's such a big move. And it really does pay out with its benefits. Reese, would you like to go next. Yeah, sure. One thing I realized I forgot to mention earlier when I was introducing myself. Is kind of what I have. So. I have. Adhd. I have generalized anxiety disorder. I have Ocd. As a separate diagnosis, and then I also have executive functioning deficit. So there's a lot going on. But yeah, I'll talk a little bit about kind of my transition into high school as a challenge and kind of how I turned it into a positive experience, and I think it's pretty. You know, it overlaps with what's already been said. But I think the journey of self-advocacy is always really important to hear. But yeah, so, coming into high school, my neurodiversity became a lot more present in my daily life than it had been in middle school. There was the increased workload, the increased independence, and then increased expectations about what my performance should look like. and I started noticing that assignments took me a lot longer than it would take my peers, and then also I would need to meet with my teachers so much more, and I think, like that has been mentioned. It can be really isolating to feel this at times, especially because at my school neurodiversity was not openly talked about. And I actually wasn't even sure for a while if there were other students who were neurodiverse because it just it wasn't talked at all. But yeah. So I also had some imposter syndrome, and I was questioning whether you know I truly belonged in such a rigorous environment. But yeah, so then finals happened my freshman year, and I was placed in a separate testing room with other neurodiverse students. And I realized that there actually was a community. It was just in need of a voice. And I saw that need through talking with other people in the room before and after my finals, and I decided to take action and found the 1st neurodiversity Affinity group at my school as a place where we could discuss our challenges and strategies for navigating school and working together to push for school-wide improvements for all neurodiverse students. Yeah. And so I would say, we've made a lot of progress. And that has become a really positive experience. I would say, we've worked to standardize accommodations across different classes, so that students don't have to advocate from scratch. Essentially in every course. We also have faculty training every year before school starts on how teachers can best support individualized learning needs. And so I think, ultimately the biggest positive experience for me has been able to see how my self advocacy and advocacy for others like me has made a lasting impact on my school, and I know that this skill of advocacy will help me to the rest of my life, and it's just shown me the power of like collective action. So I'm excited for continuing this group. But I would say ultimately, that's my most positive experience. Yeah. Thank you so much. Reese. Yeah, for sure, definitely finding a community and really embracing your passion. To overcome any obstacles is a really great way to self, advocate for yourself, and also bring a community together as well. And in that same vein as well. The next question is, how have your passions, interests, or strengths helped you overcome challenges, or informed your educational decisions. Ella, do you want to start on that. Of course. So in my school I have a passion for humanities and similar works, which is a lot different from the stem focused careers of the rest of my peers. A lot of my passions come into trying to fold them into avenues that can help me succeed. So, as my passion for writing can help me in improving in English, or within just finding different avenues of work that actually fit my interest rather than the other way around, such as, since I'm interested in art, I find avenues for which I can express that art artistic talents through projects such as mural painting and drawing. Thank you so much. Ella. Lucy, do you wanna take? Take this one as well. Yeah, I would say, my passions and interests, especially after high school and during college, have really helped me find people to connect to. So in college. The 1st conversation I had with the professor was actually a placement test for Russian. So I started learning Russian independently, because I'm sort of weird like that. I didn't have a great reason. It just looked really interesting. And the alphabet was intimidating. So I decided, why not? So I studied on my own, and I had this conversation with a professor. That was also my placement exam. She said I would never be a spy, because my accent was terrible, which is very hurtful, but aside from that, it was great. and so I found my way to the Russian department, and that got me to a group of people who shared this very specific interest. And it was just I had this ready-made community from the start of college, which is really wonderful. The other community, I found was about halfway through. I was taking psychology courses. I really loved them. So I wanted to do psychology research. And I joined a lab. And I realized that there, my tendency to talk for a little too long about my incredibly specific interests is actually completely normal. Everyone does that. It's called being a researcher. And so when I got there, I felt so much more comfortable, and started sharing details of being autistic, and found that people were incredibly kind and thoughtful and supportive and happy to have me present without making eye contact, which is really useful. So I think that those social contexts were really wonderful to discover, and finding people with the shared interests definitely made my college experience a lot better. That's so great to hear. Lucy. Yeah, of course. And finding a community is one is such an important thing because you really have someone to share your passions and interests, and it really makes the whole experience a lot better. Cost you mentioned. You want to tack this tackle this one as well. Yeah, I mean, firstly, I have to entirely agree about the whole thing with finding a community. I I mean, I found that also, just talking about my interests has honestly helped me find other neurodiverse people to chat with outside of outside of like specific events which you know some people just don't have the time to attend or don't want to attend for one reason or another, and you know there's a kind of community that you can form there, especially around things like constructed languages is one of my hobbies. And that is a lot of neurodiverse people. So yeah, there's also I hate to keep harping on the academic portion of this, because I know that it's already quite a lot stressed. But I really do think that there is definitely like there's an advantage in most parts of academic, I think. including like getting through the second half of high school getting into college, getting through college, of having very distinctive things that you care about, that you want to do. And I mean as an artist also, or more specifically, as a musician, I think that is, has been one thing that's consistently helped me, because it means that I always kind of have like. if I need to pull a topic out of my pocket, or I need to pull, like like to write an essay on, or if I need to like, convince somebody that what I'm doing is interesting or meaningful. Then I can talk about music, and that will help. And even within music I often find myself talking about other interests, and that goes over super. Well, when you're trying to make yourself stand out as a musician, stand out as an artist more generally, if you're able to talk about. You know my work is really related to like endangered species or surrealism, or what have you? Because it's it gives you a kind of edge of distinctiveness that makes people remember you. And it's good to have people remember you in pretty much every part of your life. So yeah. Thank you so much, Kosh. I really appreciate your insight on how like, for example, your passion on music helped pique other interests as well, and also find that community before we move on to the next question, does anyone else want to weigh on that? Weigh in on this, on this topic of how passions helped you overcome any challenges? If not, yeah, we can. We can feel free to move on. So just from another angle. I wanted to ask, sort of what strategies to teachers or parents undertake, that were either the most helpful or the least helpful. What worked best, and what and what didn't work best. Ila, we can start with you on this one. Oh, okay, so I think for me. I found that just talking to just talking to parents just talking to my teachers and professors really really helped me. They were able to support me in ways that were more than just like the email that they got that showed my, you know, accommodations. And I think also like, just in terms of parents, just like researching. You know what your child has and talking to your child. I think that is you know they they can help create. They can help create that conversation and create the support that they need. Thank you so much, Hila. Lucy, do you want to also tackle this one as well. Yeah, I have a very specific answer to this question. So the context is that as a child I could not summarize to save my life. If you wanted to hear about the book I was reading, you had better be prepared to sit there for 20 min, as I told you every single thing that happened, because I just had no sense of the big picture. And this is a documented feature of autism. It's sometimes called preference for local processing or impaired central coherence depending on which paper you're reading. But I could not summarize. So I started 9th grade, and I had a history essay assignment, and it was something about the Renaissance. And so I thought, Okay, let me just write down every single thing I know about the Renaissance. Fortunately I did not know that much about the Renaissance. but it was still something like 20 pages single spaced. And so I bring it in to my teacher. And I say, here's the essay, and she looks at it and goes. Is this 8 pages double spaced? And I said, not technically. And she told me that it's too long, and it has to be shorter. And I was very hurt by this. What kind of teacher are you to tell me to write less. And how could you? And I think my friends joined in and literally took out pairs of scissors and physically cutting off paragraphs. So it was a whole thing, and for that whole year she made me stick to the word limits, and I was outraged. I think I wrote some angry haikus about this outrage. I was really upset about it, but it ended up being this incredible gift, because I was really forced to zoom out and see the big picture, and I found that that skill also translated to other contexts. So I would clean my room and spend maybe 3 h on one drawer. Because suddenly I'm just focusing on that one thing and losing track of the entire rest of the room. And so the the skill of forcing myself to zoom out came in handy in a lot of other places, and then became a thing that I started working with on students. I use Google Maps as an analogy. If you're always in on the most zoomed in mode. You're not really going to get anywhere. And the map is not very functional. And so one of my students turned Google Maps into a verb. So if I say, Okay, let's time, let's write the introduction of the essay, how should we do this? They'll go. Let's Google maps this. And I'm like, yes, we'll do it. So I realize this is very specific advice. Make your students adhere to word limits. But that was a game changer for me, so I figured I'd share. Thank you so much, Lucy. Yeah, that was a really great analogy. And I really love the the Google Maps thing it really puts puts it into perspective. Well, this this question, since we have a little bit of extra time, I mean, I'm sure all of you guys can relate to different strategies of teachers or parents. If anyone else wants to jump in on this on this topic, as well feel free to unmute and just share a couple of words on some of the strategies that parents or teachers said that were either the most helpful or the least helpful. I can speak a little bit. I think something that has been really helpful for me is when sometimes my teachers, I go to a private school, so this might be different at public schools or other places. But sometimes I've had teachers reach out to me before school even fully starts, and ask to set up a meeting when school starts to review my learning plan. We don't have like ieps at my school, but we have a learning plan which is supposed to be essentially equivalent. But it's really nice when they kind of reach out and want to learn more before I even face any problems or challenges, and just know that they want to support me in all ways. And I think that's something that's been really helpful. I'd also totally agree with what's been said. I think when parents and teachers do research, especially parents on the kind of you know, conditions their children might have and how to best support them. I think that's a great way to help as well. Thank you so much, Rhys. I really appreciate that. Yeah. Oh, gosh! Please feel free. Go ahead. I wanted to second. I know someone had said before, going through going through teachers directly is just a very helpful thing to do a lot of teachers kind of want to help, but really don't understand how. And a lot of times specifics like won't really like your, you know, your generalized accommodations might not apply super well to one specific class. If you have a class that like requires, say, I forgot to mention any 5 diagnoses. And now realizing. But I have developmental coordination, disorder and lab work was really difficult for me, because I was too uncoordinated to do things like. opened the bottles of water that you need to. I think it was filling fish tanks, and just like sitting down and having a conversation with the teacher about. And it's not that big of a deal. and I will say the times of teachers have made made a big deal. I think that, you know self-advocacy is a really good thing to learn how to do. And it's a skill that you will need, and definitely one that you want to develop. But there are some teachers, and there are some times when people just really will only listen to an adult which sucks, but having parents who are really willing, when that time is there to step in and be like. Hey, this is what my students requested. This is what my student needs. Now do. It has been very helpful. Thank you so much, Kash any other thoughts. All right, sweet, we can move on to the we can move on to the next question. So this is also a very generalized topic that I'm sure a lot of you can touch on. But what advice do you have for neurodivergent children? Scrub struggling in K through 12. Education. Emsi, do you want to talk about this 1 1.st Sure, so I can mainly only speak for Adhd. But I'm sure what I'm saying is probably applicable to other forms of neurodiversity. The main piece of advice I have is to know your condition well and have empathy for yourself. I've spent a lot of time looking up things about Adhd scrolling through the reddits looking at videos. And it's helped me like, really understand what Adhd is, the different ways it can present, and how many things that are just that I just thought were parts of my personality. Are things explainable by this disorder. For example, I didn't know until rather, until maybe a couple years ago. That decision paralysis was a thing which is basically, when let me try to think of a good example. you're thinking about different places to eat. And you literally can't choose between whether you want to go eat Italian, or whether you want to go eat Mexican. They're both like equally good, and you freeze up because you cannot make the choice. And I just thought that was just me. But it's Adhd, and that's a thing with a lot of Adhd traits is that you don't realize until you learn it, and I would blame myself before for these things I would just be like, oh, this is so dumb. Why can't you just pick? But knowing that it was something else that it was Adhd helped me have like more compassion for myself. and just be accepting of the fact that I'm different than other people in certain ways, and that that's not necessarily a bad thing, and that I just have to work a little bit harder in certain ways other than that, I think learning how to plan is a very like important skill to have, and also time management, and I know those are especially hard things to deal with with Adhd, and it's taken me a lot of time to learn. I've personally found whiteboarding and my notes app really helpful. I know those are kind of like cliche advice, but if you can like, stay on top of them, they are a game changer, and especially when you're on your own, and you don't have your parents managing things in the background. Thank you so much, Amusey, Hila, do you want to add on to that with your own experiences? Yeah. So I also realized that I forgot to mention. So I have a learning disorder, and I struggle with also struggle with executive functioning. And so, just in my experience, I think that there are really like 2 or 3 things that I think personally helped me. One is. I know that this has been stated multiple times, but I think just advocacy, and just trying to continuously make sure your needs are met. Is a very, very important thing to do, because I think that that's one of the main ways that you can actually, you know, get help in studying in school and in making sure that your learning is optimal. And I think the other one and this is something that I'm still working on is just accepting that. You know you, you are like this, that there's nothing that you know you can really change. You can't change your brain. And you know, like accepting that and that struggle that comes with having that. I think those are the 2 that I would say really helped me. Thank you so much, Ela. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences on that. So I wanted to go into more of this education side of it, and especially with neurodiverse people reaching their full potential. And so what do you wish? What do you wish you could? You would change in schools. So neurodiverse students could reach their full potential and feel confidence in who who they are. And also why are events such as neurodiversity celebration week. So important. Emmacy, you want to talk about that. Sure. So for the 1st part of the question, I think awareness for people everywhere is one of the most important factors. I think there needs to be better training for teachers so that they can better understand our diversity and how it's not just going to appear in one way. In one student. There are very diverse profiles of how the same disorder can look. And understanding these like differences. I think, can be really like helpful for these teachers so that they don't just expect things to look one way. And then, when their expectations are disrupted, they're not able to like help the student and also understanding why they're why they're giving the accommodations. Not just that they have to. If they understand the reason, it's that they can like understand the disorder, and they they'll have like less objections versus if you're if the school is just telling them you have to give this kid extra time, which to them will sometimes feel like an annoyance because they have to keep the classroom open. It takes it's like it can be. It can feel like a bit of an annoyance, but if they understand the reason behind that that allows them to have more empathy And as for the second part of the question, which was neurodiversity celebration week. I think that this celebration is important because it raises the awareness I was just talking about on a larger scale, especially around 2 E. And it promotes acceptance. I think media has distorted certain perceptions. There's a lot of focus on the archetypes. You're either like a victim or a villain. And that's just not the way things are. People are people. At the end of the day we're all human. And I think just being able to think of a neurodiverse person, not just by the fact that they're neurodiverse, but just a fellow. Human is very important. And I think this celebration is especially important in a time where there's been a noticeable like reemergence of ableist attitudes. For example, I've personally noticed in my own life that the R. Slur is being tossed around a lot more. And so I think just keeping up on the progress we've made and not letting things backtrack is something we need to work towards. Thank you. Amnesty. Yeah, I also want to jump in on here, because this also hits very, very personal to me. And for one of my experiences, because in middle school I had a very, very good friend who was neurodiverse, and he was in my science class, except no one really understood his condition, and no one really wanted to work with him in group projects and everything. And it's and it's not like people were necessarily scared of him. It's just that they didn't really understand his condition, and they didn't really understand why he acted the way he does, because there simply wasn't an awareness about about like the condition he has, and that he is a perfectly capable person of achieving just as much, if not even more, than any of the other students in class, except that he couldn't really reach that full potential because he was limited just by the awareness of of everyone else around him. And I really think that's why events like I mean, discussions like this. And a neurodiversity celebration week is so important just to raise that awareness and also to really embrace the full potential academic potential. And even outside of school potential for the millions of kids that experience this every single day. So that was a that was a really personal story for me. But if anyone else has any other thoughts on this on this idea, as well, yeah, feel free to jump in. Yeah. So regarding the idea about how well, regarding the idea about how teachers and so can like help neurodiverse students, especially in terms of like helping them academically. I think that it's interesting to know that. Well, 1st of all, teachers and schools are often a lot like, kinder than you might think they are, will also sometimes admittedly, a lot meaner than you think they are, and that means is that if you're not a lot of times when you're not sure that you're diagnosed with something. It's still beneficial that you might want to ask for accommodations from your teacher one on one they might disagree. But if they do agree that can still help you academically, you don't have to be constrained by the idea that oh, you need a permission in order to like, do this while doctor's permit. Of course, like helps a lot in regards to keeping it like making sure you can't achieve your academic potential a lot of times. It can just be talking with your teacher and like explaining your circumstances that can help you like help. You get what you need in order to succeed without necessarily needing the messy complications that might are that might are making it a bit difficult for you to get through. Thank you so much, Ella. We can move on to the next question now. Sort of on a more more of a lighter side. Does any one of you guys want to tell us about any of like a website, an art, a book, etc, that you made that that was like really capture that your neurodiversity experience. Reese, we can start with you. Yeah. So I didn't make like a website or a book. But I hosted an event this past fall, and I thought it'd be cool to talk about it a bit more so. Last spring I partnered with a Uc. Berkeley graduate student at the embodied Design Research Laboratory, and we crafted a Grant proposal for a cognitive science initiative. And this was aimed at connecting researchers and neurodiverse high schoolers to develop more innovative educational tools to ultimately make education more inclusive for neurodiverse students. And although our proposal was denied, you know, we continued planning and we modified our approach. I reached out to neurodiverse students at high schools in the Bay area that I knew. I also emailed different learning specialists at different schools in the area to let the students they work with, know about the event, and give them the flyer and encourage them to Rsvp if they would like to go. But yeah, so ultimately, we hosted an event where researchers and nerdware students specifically advocates from local schools got together, and there was vital dialogue. 1st the researchers presented their work, and students then kind of voiced their educational challenges. And once we'd had that full group discussion about what the biggest challenges we're seeing are we moved to small groups where we prototyped new learning tools. So one example that I really liked was a crowdsourced app to capture neurodiverse, conscious instructional methods. I don't know if you guys are aware of the. I think it's a website rate, my professor, but it was kind of you know, that was a little bit of some inspiration, except rather than having just kind of reviews on. Whether you know I did not like this Professor, or I did like this, professor. We'd have information on how they teach, because something that I've learned is that how a teacher teaches can be just as important for me as the topic in the class, for example, like, if the class is all lecture based versus small group discussion based, I think that's really important to know. And so this app we kind of were talking about and prototyping, we were thinking could be a way for students to kind of know what kind of class they're going to be in before. Kind of, you know, signing up for it. And yeah, so I think that that's 1 event I hosted. And I'm hoping to continue this work with the students that came and continue talking with them and have a network across different schools in the Bay area. So I'm very excited to do that. But yeah, ultimately this event was to brainstorm some new ideas for educational tools that can make education more accessible and more, you know. equal 4 Nord of our students who might be struggling compared to neurotypical students. Thank you so much, Reese. I really appreciate you sharing your insight on that, and also your experiences, even if it didn't. Yeah, and especially what you learned over that. Ella, do you want to go next. Yeah. So actually 2 things. So there is like, kind of a website slash project that I am working on. I know. Yeah, I'll place to the website link in the chat. But basically working to create compassion and empathy between neurodiverse people and neurotypical people, because I think that you know that is a way that we can really start to bridge this kind of divide that just happens and start to like, acknowledge, and work together, to create a more accepting place. This is like for more than just schools, just stuff in just like groups in general. And so this is a very new project. So I'm still working on a lot of like the events and stuff like that. But when I was in high school, so like 4 years ago. I, during the summer of my sophomore year, I went to the Stanford Neurodiversity project and and did the summer program for that. And so I created a group that worked with my school district Pausd so we called it price. So pausd respect, inclusion and compassion through education. And so over the 3 years from my sophomore year to senior year, we would host neurodiversity. so education, celebration, type of things. And I would partner with another neurodiversity group to host a lantern night. Are during neurodiversity celebration week. And so I just it was very nice as a neurodiverse student to just be able to create. You know all of this and see the impact that it had on my school and on just the people within it. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much, Hila. I can also share my experience on this as well, because during my Stanford, S. And P. Reach experience in the summer of 2023, I actually worked with Reese as she was in my group to develop a photo journal that actually captures the neurodiversity experience, and it was really it was a really great experience working on this, as I'm sure Reese can also say as well. We got so much great information on interviews, misconceptions, creative spotlights as well, that really highlights the neurodiversity, experience and really captures everything. What we were talking about it over in here and just raising awareness and making it and making that neurodiversity not a stigma, but rather something that's comfortable for people to be aware about. And through the Photo journal which sort of alleviated that really information of just like research articles and stuff like that. We tried to get personal personalized experiences that told stories through through all the different sections, and that was something that the whole S. And P. Reach group really loved. We were able to present it at the Stanford's International Neurodiversity Summit, and just as a way to share that share that neurodiversity experience as well. So that was also my experience in a piece of art and creative work that that I did for neurodiversity. Celebration. Yeah. So if no one else has any other thoughts on that, we can move on to the next question of, do you think of your neurodiversity as strengths, or as disabilities, or as both? How do you wish your parents and teachers would understand your neurodiversity, Lucy, we can start with you. Yeah, okay, a couple of thoughts on this one is, I think it's important to acknowledge, especially with autism, that the word autism describes a really wide range of experiences and abilities and support needs. And so there are a lot of people on the spectrum who have an experience that's very different from mine who aren't able to talk, who need round the clock support. And that's, I think, just a side of autism part of the autism world that doesn't get talked about as much that's often left out. So I think it's really important to acknowledge that piece for me. I would say autism absolutely is a disability, and it's important to acknowledge that, too. And to illustrate that I'm going to talk a little bit about accommodations, because I am just remembering hearing all of you talk. How different it is in high school versus in college, in high school there is an element of a case by case, teacher by teacher basis in college is completely different. You go to a disability office, you submit paperwork, you get an approved list of accommodations, and then you go to your classes, and your professors are legally required to implement those accommodations. So there's not a professors aren't making decisions. They're just required to do it. And the reason they're required is because those accommodations are protected under the Americans with Disabilities act same law that says, I get to have my service dog who recently leapt onto the couch. I hope she's not too distracting in the background. But if autism were not a disability, then there wouldn't be a legal reason to provide accommodations. So I think for that sort of reason, it's really critical to. Yeah. I acknowledge that part of it that said, I think there are definitely strengths. And it's hard to say. Is this a strength fundamentally a part of autism? Is it adjacent? I don't really know. I'm not sure it matters, but I think there are aspects of the experience that I find positives and people seem to think I'm refreshingly honest. Sometimes I get really excited about my interests. So I try to make the most of those aspects. Thank you so much, Lucy. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on that. Hila, do you want to tackle this one next. Yeah. So I think that it's a nuanced. And I think that it's a personal question. And at least for me, I don't think it's 1 or the other. I think it's a mix of both. I think that we do. You know, I do have to acknowledge that it, like, Lucy said. It is a disability, you know, like I cannot do certain things, or it is harder for me to do certain things. We cannot. I think that like by, you know, pushing it to the side, and by saying that you know I I'm you know I'm able to go to school and stuff like that. It doesn't count as like a disability, but literally in the name. It's a learning disability. It makes it harder to do certain things. But I think, on the other hand, it's also a strength. I mean, it got me to go to college when you know I was really struggling when you know, and it helped. It's helped bring me to like this panel to just the people that I know and who I'm friends with. So I'm not going to say that it is one or the other, because I think that. And I'm sure other people here would agree. It's just. It's a mix of both. And I think it's also just a very personal thing that you know. Each person has to decide for themselves. Thank you so much, Hila. Reese, do you want to handle this one. Yeah, sure, yeah, I totally agree with what everything that has been said. I think for me, I see my neurodiversity both as a strength and disability, but I also see all parts of it as beautiful, if that makes sense because it brings real challenges. So I struggle with time management, needing extra clarification and support on most every assignment, and trying to make sure I can put in the right amount of effort without falling into my habit of perfectionism in my schoolwork. But at the same time it gives me so much being. Neurodiverse allows me to see the world in a unique way. It makes me more creative, thoughtful, hardworking, determined, and also deeply empathetic. And I'd say that my journey with managing my Ocd. Specifically has been incredibly difficult, but it has also taught me resilience, and I think that's a really core part of who I am. and it's shown me that no matter how hard things get, I can always keep pushing forward and not just for myself, but for others. And I think that connects back to the advocacy piece, and how important it can be to advocate for yourself and also others. And then I would say, I'm really grateful that my parents, I think, recognize, you know, all aspects of my neurodiversity. at least to the ability that they can, as they see it as a strength and disability as well. I think many of my teachers see it like this, too. I do go to private school. So I'm having, you know, a lot more personal connections with my teachers than maybe some other people would at public schools, so I can't speak for public school or college yet. I haven't gotten there quite yet, but in my school I can say that I'm happy to say that my teachers, for the most part, I think, seem to see it as both a strength and a disability. What I would say is that I hope more people in the future will understand that neurodiversity isn't something necessarily to be fixed. It's a different way of thinking and experiencing the world, and I think that difference, like most differences, is very valuable, and I think. seeing only the difficulties can lead to serious stigma, which I've definitely seen at my school and also in the media, but also while seeing only the positives that can overlook the need for support which was talked about, I think, by Lucy. and that's definitely a big part of it as well. And so that's why I think, seeing it as both a disability and a strength is important, at least for me. Of course everyone should see it in the way that best supports their own needs. But yeah, how I see it is that the struggles. They're not separate from the strengths. They're very deeply connected, and they both deserve to be recognized and embraced. So yeah, I like to think of myself kind of as mosaic in a way so like each challenge and each strength, each unique piece coming together to create something whole and meaningful. And I think just like a mosaic. It's the combination of those pieces that makes neurodiversity truly beautiful rather than you know. Maybe just focusing on a specific piece. Only I think all pieces come together and make you who you are, and that's why I think I see all parts as beautiful. That was really amazing. Reese, yeah, thank you. Especially that that mosaic part of it is so important because, especially in a modern state of society which focus on so many different things. Really, having a balanced, balanced sort of idealistic view is something that's really important, especially for self progression and sort of in that similar idea like, How like, how do you identify and nurture strengths which are not stem like math or science, related something that most society caters to modernly right now, Ella, do you want to have some thoughts on that. Yeah. So like, I said before, my primary interests are in the humanities which aren't math sciences and stem, which I think that in order to It's kind of important to understand and accept that a lot of people aren't going to prioritize the humanities as a research field which requires people to have to search out opportunities and systems and organizations and other people to learn from instead. This can be a hassle, but I do think that a good resource, in order to receive the proper information and net information like necessary connections, in order to like apply for and get these positions in places where you can like. Put your interest to use and practice are just by searching out online and just reaching out to more people, and which is kind of cliche, but at the end of the day it does work. I, personally am very interested in history, which means that a lot of my dream colleges, and like places and applications like different summer schools and like organizations, have always been like history related, and that has worked in getting me, like several history, based like research opportunities such as in pioneer and in my personal life, my interest in art has encouraged me to reach out to organizations within my community. In order to like practice, art projects for the community as well. So in the end of the day a lot of it is just reaching out making connections and just knowing that no matter what you don't have to go to stem, there's always an opportunity, and you shouldn't just stop searching for it. Thank you so much, Ella. I really like, I really like that idea that it's not just. You don't need to follow what society normalizes what you feel that it's important and what you feel connected to cost. Do you have any thoughts on that. Yeah, I will say, I really agree. The Internet is a wonderful thing, and it is something that you can and should use. There are all kinds of opportunities out there. And one of the wonderful things about being in a society that prioritizes math and science and technology is that there are a lot fewer people going for those opportunities. It's really remarkable. and that means that, you know, if you are someone who is naturally interested in those stuff. That's something that you want to pursue. There are a lot of avenues that are really open for that. I'll also say, finding communities online, even has been something that I've just started to do. And while obviously it can be a bit treacherous, because, you know, the Internet is the Internet, it's something that's really helpful. And you can find people who share interests. And you can have discussions with people about things that aren't necessarily science and math focused. I also think that on the community level it is very. It's very apparent how much like, you know, you might not know what. Like many math and science people. And while sure for your like project, you're like, if you're like doing a video for a charity that you're trying to raise money for, or whatever you can use, like stock graphics or like. buy stock music for your soundtrack. People like having a personal touch, people like having things that they can do, and that is a chance to, you know. Engage with your community through the medium of art. It's a way that, and I find that oftentimes, if people might not even know that they want someone who is an artist or who is in the humanities until you actually suggest, hey, I'd be really interested in writing music for your project, or something similar. Music is a lot of my experience with doing this. And so like. In fact, I have a stordy My high school required that we do a Senior capstone project. and I wanted to do something related to music because it's supposed to be related to the field that you want to go into professionally and I assumed that I would be like trying to do some work at a music library or something, and I was talking with my music teacher about how to do this until I mentioned that I mean, I suppose if I could write for like an orchestra or something I could do that turns out that the guy was able to get me a position as a kind of young composer in residence for like 6 months, and I think that that is less uncomp. It's weird, but it's less weird than you might think. There are a lot of. There are a lot of opportunities that people just kind of have open for people who are really interested in art, people who are really interested in humanities. And yeah, I'm droning on a bit. But one thing before I stop is that I think that it is very useful if you can to have someone who kind of knows about what you're interested in and can function as a tutor or a mentor, or just a person who knows about the stuff that you know about, or that you want to know about. And for that sometimes it's just knowing people. I will also say that the cold email is a surprisingly effective technique for that. Just write to someone they might be interested. Yeah. Thank you so much. Kosh before we move into the Q. And a. I wanted to end with a really important and also meaningful question as well that, I'm sure, applies to a lot of the people in the audience. What do you want to tell any 2 E students and their parents, who are feeling any sense of discouragement. Or are, are not really feeling motivated? Ella, do you want to handle this one. Yeah, I think that one of the biggest things I would say is, just keep going. Keep advocating, because eventually, you know, like the advocacy will start to work, and you will be able to get the accommodations the just the things that you need in order to succeed. In education. I think that you know like, if you just keep pushing, keep pushing you know people will listen to you, and people will take into account what you what your child is experiencing. Thank you so much, Ila Kosh. Any thoughts on this. I will say again, like it gets better, and at least from my experience, it will. Starting in like 6th grade, I think, for me was when it peaked and like, Oh, my God! This is awful! I cannot deal with this, and then just started like getting better. People got more receptive opportunities got more present, and I found that a lot of the stuff that I went through in the 6th grade, and a lot of kind of the things that I was worried about would end up being consequences of that just didn't matter nearly as much as I think that people might worry that they do. It's. I think, that kind of this environment. being in school is an environment possibly uniquely ill-suited to neuroatypical people. And which is very unfortunate. But it is something that. Yeah, not that, you know, there's definitely going to be a lot of work along the way, and I think that it is really important to the parents out there. To listen to your kid is what I'd say 1st and foremost, like that is, I think, the biggest thing. and if you do that, you can get a lot of cases. Yeah. Thank you so much. Kosh. so that wraps up our preset preset questions. So I'll now be moving into the the QA that. You guys have been populating in the chat. So the 1st one it's it's a little bit long. But here I'll I'll try my best to read it all out. So I'm trying to create an affinity group similar to the one Reese mentioned at my son's middle school. He is in 7th grade and dyslexic. Primarily because I've realized he feels really alone and thinks he is the only student with the learning challenges with privacy needs around student with Ieps. I'm finding it challenging to find other students with similar learning challenges any recommendations on how to find these students to see if they would like to join a group such as this. It is not a topic discussed between students at school. Thank you so much. If anyone has any thoughts on this feel free to unmute and talk. I can talk about this a little bit. So I would say, there's a few different ways that I've found, you know, other neurodiverse students. So at my school I kind of mentioned this a little bit earlier, but something that was helpful for me was just, you know, starting conversations with the people around me. So I have a separate room accommodation for assessments like finals. And so, even though neurodiversity wasn't something talked about at my school, really, at the time I would talk to. I was in a room with people that I knew were also neurodiverse, even if they hadn't necessarily told me that. And so we could kind of just have a conversation in a safe place where we know that we both are struggling, but also you know, just having the same thing in terms of having neurodiversity, though, of course, that means a variety of different things for different people. And I think that's also one of the things that makes it beautiful. But I would say, if there are already communities at your school that is really important. But then I know that sometimes schools don't have a lot of communities like that. I mean for my school. I had to create one, and I'm really happy about that. It went very well, and I'm very happy with all the progress we've made. But I also understand that some people, especially, you know, middle schoolers, might not be ready to create something like that, and that makes total sense. So I would say, outside of school has been important for me as well, I would say, joining committees or attending panels like this has been helpful for me, especially attending like conferences. I actually went to the Ocd. Conference this past summer, and that was pretty life changing for me because I just. I don't know that many people personally who have Ocd. Or at least the intensity of it that I do, and I was in a place where it was completely celebrated. and that was a 1st versus, you know some of the comments I'd hear at my school that I'm sure many other students have heard, like, I'm so Ocd and stuff. So I think, seeing other people celebrate our differences was really impactful for me, and then also hosting events or attending events. I talked a little bit about how I hosted my own event, but I think there's so many events that you can find on the Internet, or I can also help you find some, if you'd like. I know of a lot just from my event, and talking with other nerdverse students who are trying to do similar things. But I will say that for how I reached out for the event, the learning specialists at my school actually helped me reach out to other learning specialists at other schools. And so she would ask the learning specialist at the other schools to give the students a flyer or my email, and that they could reach out to me if they wanted to be a part of the ongoing committee I'm creating. I don't have a website for it yet, unfortunately. And then also the event that I hosted in September, and I'm hoping to do another one. So I think I would say a lot of, you know, reaching out to people that can be hard. But if you have someone like a learning specialist or someone at your school who can help with that, I would say definitely, utilize that resource if you're comfortable with it, because it has been very helpful for me in not only, you know, getting my accommodations, but forming communities in a place where I didn't think I could. Thank you so much, Rhys. Any other thoughts on on this question. Alright cool. We can move on to the next one. So the speakers have embraced the labels that they were diagnosed with when they were younger, did they? The speakers have embraced the labels that they were diagnosed with when they were younger, did they feel differently? How did they overcome any shame or isolation they may have felt when they were younger? My son is in denial of his diagnosis. He is in 6th grade, and I'm not sure how to approach this topic as a parent. Thanks, Lucy. You mentioned you want to start with this one. Yeah. So when I 1st got diagnosed, actually, before I was diagnosed with autism, the prospect was raised. I was 18 at the time, and I didn't want to hear any of it, because I just heard the term and thought great, here's another thing wrong with me that people can criticize me, for I don't think that was me purely projecting in fairness. There are a lot of really negative messages about autism, and so I perceived the diagnosis as just another tool to pick me apart and pathologize. I got on board with it when it was explained to me that they wouldn't see autism as something to fix, or something wrong with me. That it was a different way of being, I think, was the the way this particular doctor put it. And I think another thing that helped actually was reading online articles about other autistic teenagers and women and realizing that my understanding of autism didn't quite match that. So all that is to say, I think it's really important to just understand better what your son believes about the diagnosis. How does he understand whatever word or label. It is what it means to him. And just to get his perspective. I think if you go into the conversation with the goal of getting him to accept it. That's going to make it difficult to understand. And really, if that's not the label that he wants to use to describe his experience right now. That's fine. It doesn't have to be. It's his experience, and that is likely to change, because 6th graders do change a lot as they get older. But I think, starting with understanding his perspective, what would it mean for him to have this label? And why doesn't he want that? Or what about that is difficult is a good way to begin, and and just, I think, be ready to have this evolve over time. Thank you so much, Lucy. Any other thoughts on this? Any of you guys had experience with this, or want to share a little bit of insight. I think, also potentially showing your son some positive representations of whatever diagnosis he has in media in shows. Might like, give him a better understanding, and maybe a more positive outlook, so that he's not just associating the negatives of the disorder. For example, with Adhd. At least, there are some more like benefits like being more creative, etc. And some people look at hyper focusing as a positive ability to be able to completely dedicate yourself to a task for an extended duration. So I think just maybe finding some shows or some comics with that like do a good job of showcasing, not just the negatives, but also the positives and giving him some role models, could be a potential option to look into. I think another thing, might be just letting your done have the time to process his diagnosis, because I think that time would probably be one of the best ways to you know, kind of come to terms with that, and to just kind of understand how it affects him specifically because it can. Be it. It's different for everyone. And so, you know, trying to force him into you know, accepting it, I think, like, Lucy said. Is not going to help him in anyway. Thank you so much, Hila. If there's no any other thoughts on this, we can move on to the next question, where did any of the and did any of the panelists have social communication disorder? And how do they manage it? Anyone feel free to unmute and speak on that. I believe if that is the same diagnosis as social, pragmatic communication disorder, then yes, that's me. I think that there are a lot of different ways that you can look at social, pragmatic communication disorder. I, for one thing, I do not think it is entirely something that put makes you disadvantaged. I think that like a lot of disorders, there's an upside for me that was that I throughout pretty much the entirety of my high school experience never really got into, felt some of the peer pressures that I did just because I was kind of, and I think also in retrospect. I think I was somewhat oblivious to some of the teasing that was going on. I just didn't register it, and I think that's honestly the best way to deal with that. So that was part of my experience, as far as actually handling it. I was in the therapy for it, and I am still entirely undecided as to whether it worked. I think that it definitely can for some people, and I'd certainly suggest considering it. I also don't think that it's a perfect catch-all solution. And I think that it's also one of the best things to do is to find people who appreciate, or at the very least don't mind the fact that your not necessarily picking up on all the cues that you aren't necessarily speaking the most clearly that you aren't necessarily that maybe, at least for me. I definitely know that one of the ways it manifests is that I'm much more brusque, I guess, straightforward than a lot of people, and that definitely can be something that people appreciate. So I think that part of it's just finding good friends which can be intimidating. But there are people out there. Thank you so much. Kash, yeah, I definitely agree. Finding the community as we mentioned before, it's it's really important to find that right support audience to help you guide you through your your journey to be a much, a much. Have a have a much better experience. Lucy. This question was specific to you in problems where you wrote very long context for shorter ones, and it would affect your other assignments. How how did you balance that. May I quickly say one thing about the social communication, and then answer this. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Go ahead. I didn't have that particular diagnosis, but of course, autism, there's some overlap. So I found it helpful. One. I had a friend in middle school, who's just an extraordinarily good conversationalist at age 12, and would beautifully volley a question back and keep the reciprocity and the conversation balanced, and she was great for just teaching me how a good conversation feels. So if you can find a friend for the kid who's really patient and understanding and and is okay with the peculiarities and can hang out with them and kind of model that could be really useful. I also watched a lot of sitcoms. I didn't realize, as I was doing it, that this was helpful. But actually, I learned so much about communication and the nuances, and I'd have to watch an episode, maybe 4 or 5 times, and the 5th time I'd understand this insinuation, or why this thing was funny, so that could be good, and I don't think I have a 3rd thing, so I'll answer the other question, how did it affect my my other assignments? I just spent too long on everything and did not sleep enough in high school. It was not good, I would not recommend it, and this is my tendency for most tasks, because I'm so detail oriented. I can spend way too long on pretty much everything. So I have to be pretty rigorous and setting timers and keeping myself focused. Thank you so much, Lucy. I really appreciate you sharing your insight on that. Any other final thoughts from any of the other panelists on your neurodiversity experience school outside of school. Any other final closing thoughts. I have one, I guess. Final thing that I can say. It connects back to an earlier question about how I think, have your passions helped you with your neurodiversity. And I think something that I've realized is that so I have a passion for neurodiversity, advocacy and learning more about neurodiversity. And I think, while I know, that's not everyone's passion. Of course, I think it's really important to educate yourself on your own neurodiversity, because I think the reason why it's so important to me. And I think it is to so many neurodiverse. You know, students, I mean, it's very common for neurodiverse students to major in something related to the brain and how it works, and I think that relates to this a little bit. But I think understanding myself has been a journey. And I think that is very important, because, being neurodiverse, you can often feel like you can't be understood, or at least I have. And it seems like a lot of the other panelists have touched on that a little bit, and I think that is what really is so isolating is feeling like, no matter what, you always be different in a way that other people won't fully be able to understand. And I think I've learned to see that as like a beautiful thing, and that makes me unique. And I think it took me, you know, a bit to get there, though, and I think what really helped me was learning not only, you know, the science behind. Why does my brain do this like? Why is my friend able to do this? And I'm not able to. I don't understand. And I think that frustration really kind of went away more when I saw that this is just how my brain works literally. And you know, then I learned how I think I was more open also to accepting it. I will say that there were times where I wasn't as open to accepting different parts of my neurodiversity. But I think the more I understand about it, even to this day I'm always learning more about it, and it really helps me. So I would definitely recommend for everyone, not just people who are neurodiverse, but especially for those who are learning as much as you can just about how your own brain works, because it is truly a thing that you can adapt and help like you can make it help you in whatever way works for you. If you know how to. And I think it's just it's a journey. So yeah. Thank you so much, Reese. That was such a really great closing note to wrap up this amazing discussion. We heard so many great perspectives, experiences thoughts, also advice as well. And I I just wanted to say I really appreciate all the panelists for taking the time out of their day to share their experiences. And I'm sure it helps so many people in this audience and gave so much insight as well. With that. Yeah, I'll hand over the closing, closing mic to you to close it. Close this thing off. Thank you guys so much. This was an amazing panel. I took pages of notes. I hope all the I assume all the parents on the call. And everyone that watches the recording is going to get so much out of this to support their neurodivergent learners. You guys are all so inspirational. We're getting kudos in the chat as well, and I just put a feedback form in the chat. We hope that all of you are able to join us at future real events and go to our website to get more information. And I'll put the the panelists websites in here one more time as well. and thank you all so much for coming tonight. Thank you. Everyone. Really, appreciate.