Shu-Hsein Ho and Royd Hatta presented their dudes at the REEL K-12 Strengths Fair Transcript Moderator:  Thank you. Welcome. Welcome to the 2026 Real Strengths Fair. Real is a nonprofit committed to ensuring Silicon Valley's twice exceptional students thrive in school by raising awareness among parents, educators about practical research-based strategies to meet their needs. You can join our online speaker events, support groups, and get our resources at real2e.org . We are thrilled to host our second fair focused on empowering neurodivergent children through a strength-based approach and even more thrilled to welcome our speakers Susan Roy Ho and Roy Hada for their talk "Mochi Dude, Body Dude, and Hot Cocoa Dude: How Silly Characters Can Reframe Essay Writing." Writing coaches Susan and Roy of Beyond the Box Learning are passionate about teaching youth and teens ages 7 through 21 how to organize their thoughts and write with power, clarity, and ease. Since 1996, they have collaborated with students to develop highly interactive, playful, and visual strategies for writing essays, research papers, poems, short stories, and even their first novels. Miss Ho and Mr. Hada teach English curriculum courses for homeschooling groups, host story workshops, and run two thriving young writers clubs in the Bay Area. On a personal note, I've been a huge fan of Roy and Susan ever since my now 13-year-old son, Adam, right here, attended one of their summer camps three years ago. He's participated in several of their classes and camps since then. And now Adam's little sister Gabriel, who's sitting next to him, is excited to finally be able to participate for her for the first time in one of their camps this summer.  And with that, please help me welcome Roy and Susan. Thank you so much. Royd:  Thank you so much, Susan. Super honored to be here. Um it's interesting. We we never advertise. Though we do have like these linden tree free story workshops every month. So if you're interested, you can go to our booth and you can sign up.  We'll have a QR code at the end. My name again is Roy. We're Beyond the Box. This is Susan Ho. Um and we're going to be teaching you an essay structure that is very simple. Now who is doing a little bit of essays right now for their kids and where they're in the middle?  Yeah. Okay. Great.  Middle schoolers. Great. High school students. Elementary school students. Yep. Okay. Great. Excellent. Well, you know, typically what we'll do is like we'll start our kids off with story and because like story is so powerful as a way to kind of get our pens moving, right? But eventually they'll get to this essay and we want to keep it as fun and interesting and entertaining as possible. And actually the story behind this is that we didn't really come up with this idea. This actually came from our students because we were kind of like figuring out how to do this essay. We knew the structure but going just by pure text is is kind of tough and you know there's a sequence and it can get kind of complicated. So we started drawing and we always allow our kids to draw at first in order to kind of get their pens going. But eventually we started to see like "Oh, does this work for another student? Does this work for you?" Pretty soon this became like a kind of a core idea behind our teaching around essays. So thanks to our students. Yes, we take very little credit for this actually. In front of you you have a pen or a pencil and a paper.  We're going to do a little bit of workshopping here today. All right.  I'm going to invite you to stand with us. And this is like the Linden Tree here.  The children's bookstore. Now it's a full-blown bookstore with adult books as well. And we do these again monthly workshops.  Next up—and this is us being silly earlier. We try to not take things so seriously. It's kind of like a core thing idea. And then we always say, you know, if you lose the ability to laugh, you lose the ability to think. Who's ever heard of that particular kind of phrase before? It's from Clarence Darrow, who is like a civil rights and labor attorney, right? Here are some characters that our students actually invented. So, a core idea about story is like characters, right? So it's like no wonder this thing kind of works because we think about characters and this is like from other methods that we work with—"BAD TOAD"—which is like Backstory, Action, Description, Thoughts, Observations, Dialogue, and Emotions.  And then we have like a whole series really like six different characters. Trickster—a lot of our kids love these kinds of characters. They make these images and we make stickers for them. You can probably find some of these characters on our table, right? More characters—and we'll probably see variations of our own handwritten version, but some kids love Procreate and they've made their own kind of versions here. Okay, we're gonna go straight into it. So, this is Mochi Dude.  And if everybody can get their pencils and their papers, we're going to do a very quick sketch. We're going to do some drawing here.  All right. If you don't have like a hardboard, you could probably use the seat or something like that. So Mochi Dude looks like this. It looks like a mound here. And we have a little bit of a hookie kind of thing, a curly-cue thing. We have these eyes, and these eyes are kind of looking at different directions here, right? We have a nose here that's very pointy. We have a mouth here and we have three fangs.  Can you imagine like some kid drawing this on their own? Not from us, right? Essentially what we have here is, at the beginning of an essay, we have an opening hook. Something that'll grab our attention to kind of pull us in. So you can just call this a hook or you can call this an opening hook.  Don't worry about all the details about it. We're just kind of basically labeling things right now. And then next we have these kind of two eyes looking kind of weirdly derpedly like at opposite directions. This is called the "Some people think, but really." So when you think about it, it goes like "Some people think A, but really B."  Does that make sense? Who's ever heard something like that? It's kind of like "Some people believe X, but really scientists have found or discovered that this is true," right? It's like a setup and it gets us steered towards the thesis, which is the main point. And it's pointy because it's like the main point, right?  So this is the thesis. Some kids don't remember "thesis" eventually they'll remember, but sometimes they go "main point" or "the big point."  And then we have these three points. We call them the three reasons—one, two, three. Next up, this is called Body Dude. Body Dude looks like this: it's a top hat, we have a face, happy face, then we have our arms and our hands. The hands have like a little mini thing here—little paper—and then we have boots. At the top, this top hat is going to be our topic sentence.  Don't worry about how to do a topic sentence right now. Essentially, it's like your thesis plus one of your reasons. Next is the "DFNs"—Data, Facts, or Numbers. Some people call this the evidence. But when we say evidence, a lot of kids' minds go blank. But if I say data, facts, numbers—especially numbers—they go, "Oh, yeah." Like "there were 99 billion cells in this one lizard." Then they go, "Oh, yeah, that's a fact." And by the way, we do these silly fake essays first for several sessions so they get the structure right without stressing out on whether the facts are true. Next up is the story example. This is where we really start to harp on things because STEM kids love data and facts, but readers aren't really going to remember those facts. The story is super important because it humanizes the data. So for now we'll just say "story and example." The last part is boots, and it's the "benefit."  By doing all this stuff, what do we get? What are we supposed to know? It's meant to encapsulate all the information in that paragraph. Next is Hot Cocoa Dude, our conclusion. Usually they'll have three different body paragraphs and then a conclusion. Hot cocoa dude looks like this: three steamy things, happy eyes, a cup handle, and little mini boots on top of the world. Or "Stinky Underwear Dude" if some kid wants to be silly. At the top, the steam tells us to "restate your main point or your thesis plus your three reasons." The eyes are an "even though." As in, "even though X, there's Y." For older students, we'll say "Of course A, but B instead." It's basically the rebuttal part. And then we have the "world benefit." It has the same formula, but it's basically for the world. Royd:  All right, let's do an actual version. Someone give me a random silly topic. Audience Member:  Zombies cannot be turned back into humans. Royd:  Okay, zombies. Why is that true? Give me three reasons. Audience Member:  Because they're already dead. They don't eat very healthy. And their neurons are gone. Royd:  Great. So we have our thesis and three reasons. For our Mochi Dude opening, "Some people think that zombies can come back to life, but really they cannot."  Now for a Body Dude paragraph. Let's practice on "they don't eat healthy." Topic sentence: "Zombies cannot be turned back into humans because they do not eat healthy food." Now, some silly facts or numbers. "According to the recent Research Institute of Zombies, brains have no carbohydrates; they're pure protein." When we turn from silly essays to serious ones, students already know they need an "according to expert X" or certain statistics. Now for the story example. Let's name a zombie—Bob B. Bro. Once in the year 7632, Bob B. Bro ate too many hot and sour curly French fries and got "zombie sickness." He barfed for two hours straight, his temperature was 200 degrees, and his toes fell off. But he was still alive. In fact, he lived more than 10,000 years. Kids are going to remember the story of Bob B. Bro barfing much more than the data facts and numbers. The benefit: "By eating unhealthy food, zombies are able to withstand extreme things and survive for 10,000 years." When students are comfortable with this, we start having them do persuasive essays and literary analysis. Now for the conclusion. We restate the thesis: "Zombies cannot be turned back into humans because of reasons one, two, and three." For the rebuttal: "Even though they eat fast food, there are enough electrolytes to keep them as zombies." Finally, the world benefit: "By surviving every kind of disaster, zombies can outlive any living thing and teach whoever is left how to restore the planet as it should be." It's a crazy way to do it, but crazy and fun is the way to go. Royd:  My name again is Roy, and we're Beyond the Box. You can email me for the template and PDF. We have story workshops at Linden Tree Books for ages 7 to 11 and teens. Shu-Shein:  We have a film analysis course in person in Palo Alto for teens ages 12 and up. We also have an online zoom course on comparative literature. For the summer, we're looking for families to host one-week teen workshops. Royd:  Any other questions? One of our students just switched to public high school and said this essay structure is really helping him in his high school courses. We've been here for over 20 years. Thank you so much for joining us. Moderator:  Thank you. There's a couple more minutes until the fair closes. Feel free to come up and ask Roy questions or head out to the exhibit hall. Thank you everyone for coming.

Amanda Morin presented this discussion at the 2026 REEL K-12 Strengths Fair See the Transcript here Introduction and Opening Remarks Surbhi:  Good afternoon, everyone. We are going to start the talk, and there will be more people who come in and join in the middle. Let me formally welcome everybody to the 2026 REEL Strengths Fair. I'm Surbhi, a board member with REEL, a nonprofit committed to ensuring Silicon Valley's twice-exceptional students thrive in school. REEL works by raising awareness among parents and educators about practical, research-based strategies to meet student needs. You can join our online speaker events and support groups or get resources at our website. Today, we are thrilled to host our second fair focused on empowering neurodivergent children through a strengths-based approach. We are even more thrilled to welcome our wonderful keynote speaker, Amanda Morin. Her talk is titled "Speaking Their Language: How Strengths-Based Communication Builds Trust, Confidence, and Connection." Amanda is a neurodivergent activist, award-winning author of six books, and a nationally known speaker committed to fostering inclusive environments. Personal Identity and Authenticity Amanda:  Thank you all for joining me. If you were here as we were starting, I gave you bubbles for a few reasons. First, they’re just fun, and second, they are great for when you need to regulate and take a breath. Some people also dislike the sound of clapping, so you can wiggle your hands or blow bubbles instead. I never quite know what to do when I hear my own introduction because it’s not how I see myself. I’ll be honest; I look at my professional headshot and realize we can't always show up like that. I’ve written books and advocated on Capitol Hill, but I’m really just a goofy person who loves comfortable clothes. I am mom to three neurodivergent young adults, one of whom is actually here in the room today. They are also proudly neurodivergent, and we embrace our unique traits together. For example, I asked to have the lights down in here today because I simply couldn’t concentrate otherwise. This is what it looks like when twice-exceptionality shows up in real life. The "Have a Day" Story I want to start by telling you a story about how I used to send my kids to school. Like many parents, I would say "Have a good day" to my son, Jacob. However, Jacob was not having good days at the time. He hadn't yet been diagnosed as autistic, and school was a very tough road for him. As the calls from school increased, I would try harder by saying "Have a GREAT day" or "Have a BETTER day." I watched my son shrink into himself every time I used these phrases. His eyes would well up, and he would get very quiet. I didn't realize that "Have a good day" felt like emotional pressure and a standard he couldn't meet. One day, we watched a movie where a mother turned to her child and simply said, "Have a day." My kiddo just lit up in a way I hadn't seen in a long time. He told me that this made sense to him because "Have a day" carried no pressure or judgment. It meant that some days are good, some are hard, and some are just days. Inherited Language and Communication Barriers Language doesn't happen in a vacuum; we inherit it from our families and the systems around us. Until we know better, we often just imitate the phrases we grew up hearing. For me, hearing "Life’s not fair" was something that made me feel incapable as a child. Others here have heard "Try harder," "Do better," or "Just get over it." In our house, we realized that communication breakdowns often came from a lack of shared meaning. Because of how my brain is wired, I need precision of language and very clear instructions. My husband, who has a language-based learning disability, is much more comfortable with ambiguity. He might use words like "soon" or "ready" in ways that I find unclear. We spent years having the same arguments because we were trying to fix each other's language instead of collaborating. We finally realized we had to make our communication explicit and intentional. We had to define exactly what a phrase like "going out the door" meant. It meant shoes are on, teeth are brushed, and backpacks are ready. The Double Empathy Problem This communication shift relates to what researchers call the "Double Empathy Problem." Damian Milton coined this term to describe how communication between neurodivergent and neuro-normative people often crosses paths. Traditionally, society puts the responsibility for fixing these gaps solely on the neurodivergent individual. I love using the beaver and squirrel analogy to explain this concept. Squirrels and beavers communicate perfectly well with their own kind, but they struggle when they try to talk to each other. Society often tells the "squirrel" that they have a disordered style and must learn to act like a "beaver." This places the entire burden of adaptation on just one group. If belonging is mutual, we need tools that help everyone navigate when to adapt and when to advocate. We need to move away from the idea that one population is solely responsible for miscommunication. To help with this, I want to share a specific framework with you today. This is what we call the TRUE framework for authentic communication. The TRUE Framework The T  in TRUE stands for Trust Your Feelings . We must teach kids to trust their instincts about what feels safe and authentic to communicate. Often, neurodivergent children are told their instincts are wrong or that they are being too sensitive. If they can trust their feelings, they feel much safer being heard. R  stands for Reflect on Camouflaging , which is similar to masking. This is when an individual imitates the behaviors of those around them just to blend in. While it can be a survival tool, it always comes at a high emotional cost. We should help students notice when they are "pretending" and when they feel like their true selves. U  represents Understand Your Needs . We need to ask how camouflaging affects a child's personal well-being. Masking can lead to anxiety, depression, and identity confusion over time. Effective communication isn't just about academic success; it is a form of mental health prevention. Finally, E  is for Experiment with Expression . This is about giving kids the power to try out different levels of self-expression in safe spaces. This applies to how they look, how they dress, and the specific words they choose to use. When we let them experiment, we are giving them the power to show us who they truly are. Reframing Behavior as Communication We can change the variable of an environment by changing how we speak. For example, instead of saying "You always..." we can say "I noticed that..." Instead of asking "What’s wrong with you?" we can ask "What’s happening with you?" These simple reframes move us away from judgment and toward a collaborative solution. Oftentimes, when a child "acts out," they are actually just communicative. If a kid says a lesson is "dumb," they might be trying to say they don't understand it. If we label their curiosity as disrespect, we are squashing their desire to learn. We should stop labeling these moments as "behavior" and start examining them as communication. There is a powerful phrase: "Connection before correction." When we move from deficit-based language to strength-based language, we see possibilities instead of problems. This doesn't mean being toxically positive or letting everything slide. It means leading with what a child does well and using those strengths as entry points. Systemic Change and Conclusion Effective communication is prevention because it helps students take risks and build resilience. This is how systems change—one small, intentional shift at a time. It isn't always about big interventions; it's about thousands of tiny changes in how we speak. Moving from compliance to curiosity reduces the exhausting cost of masking for our children. Our family moved to California from Maine recently, so "seismic shifts" have been on my mind. I am aware that these small language changes are actually seismic shifts for a child's narrative. Every time we clarify instead of assuming, we are building deep trust. We are transforming lives so that people don't have to change who they are to belong. You don't need to have perfect language or change everything overnight. You just need to have intentionality in how you speak to your children and students. By choosing curiosity over compliance and connection over control, we transform the world for neurodivergent minds. Thank you for being here, and I wish you all a day.

Dr. Jessica Snowden Patel, who wrote an amazing guide for assessments for REEL , speaks about neuropsychological assessments/evaluations, including: when to get an assessment, why 2e learners don't often get assessed by school, what are different types of evaluations, why it can be important to get an assessment, what will be tested, and what questions to ask. Transcript 0:00 For coming tonight. Oh, there we go. Um, thank thank you all for coming tonight. Um, you know, Real asked me to write a guy, well, they asked me to write a blog about um, neurosychological evaluations or evaluations and questions parents may have, and I am very long- winded and it turned into a complete guide. And so, I know tonight I have um, about 15 minutes and I could talk probably for hours on this topic. So, I'm going to try to streamline it the best that I can. And um you can also if you know I'm going to try to kind of highlight some things. Again, you can check out the full guide and then I definitely want to leave time for questions too. I'm sure a lot of you have had your kids have evaluations. Some of you may not have had that too. 0:48 Um, and just for my perspective, you know, going over some of the big things are like one of the big questions parents have are when do when should I consider an evaluation? This could also be a re-evaluation as well. You know, one of them is I always say, you know, you are the parent and you do know your kids well. So, really trust your gut. If you're asking the question about should I get an evaluation, oftentimes the answer is yes because there's some reason why you're questioning it. Um, oftentimes I will hear parents say too that they were kind of invalidated when they're asked maybe their pediatrician or a teacher or friends about getting an evaluation. I think this happens a lot, especially for our two ears. I also have two myself and um, you know, things look very different. They may compensate really well. They may mask really well in different environments. But if you are seeing something with them, especially at home or at school, and you feel like it would be benefit from clarification, like that can be the right time to have an evaluation. Any evaluator you talk to should talk through that with you though, too. There are people who contact me and I'm like, "Hey, you know, you're describing a lot of maybe sensory concerns. You can always start with OT and circle back around. Of course, I'm happy to, you know, work with your family or do a full evaluation, but they should be willing to talk through that process with you as well. 2:07 Um, you know, it's really hard to do a comprehensive evaluation when someone is in an acute crisis because if we're thinking about evaluations, we're often trying to look at like IQ and academics and things like that. And if there's like a big crisis or a lot of trauma or things like that going on in the moment, it can be sometimes hard to get a good lay on some of or good kind of pulse on some of the other things going on just because just like us as adults, you know, if we're really stressed out, there's a lot going on, maybe something traumatic happened, we're not going to necessarily be at our kind of best level of functioning. And so there are times where maybe there is a acute crisis where you decide to wait or you decide to have a more targeted evaluation to kind of answer some questions. And so that is always a consideration as well. 2:56 Um transition points are often a really big time too to consider an evaluation and this might be a re-evaluation as well. So thinking about like going into middle school, you know, a lot has may have changed for your child since they were very young. And that I will say that with two years, that's a lot of times when I see kids for the first time is at a big transition. Like things seem to go well, kids could really compensate. They hit middle school, wheels fall off the bus, they need support and parents like how can we support them? um or even college, people going off to college and then kind of the other supports go away and then realizing like, hey, I think I'm autistic or, you know, an auditor or I'm dyslexic. And sometimes the answer is yes and they've just been compensating really, really well. Other things to consider are sometimes if evaluations are older to get accommodations for ACT, SAT, college, there are specific timelines that they require updated evaluations to happen. So those are also some of the points um at what you may consider it. But again, anyone you ever reach out to about an evaluation should be willing to talk through that with you of like, hey, does this make sense now? And what will you or won't you get out of the evaluation at that point in time? There's no magic age. I see very very young kids um as well. Like I might see two or three year olds for specific developmental concerns and I see, you know, many older people as well. It just really depends on what's going on at that point in time. 4:26 Um, another question that I often get is a lot of confusion about what type of evaluation, you know, is this a neurosych, is this a psychoeducational, should I see a DBP? Like all of these acronyms are being thrown out. And the thing is is it's not so important what it's called because I find people use terms wrongly and also interchangeably, but it's really like what is the person going to be looking at? And so most of the time when someone's talking about like a neurosychological evaluation, they're looking for a comprehensive evaluation that's looking at all areas of functioning. But one thing that a lot of people don't know is in the world of psychology and even with, you know, DBPS or other people, if you don't have specific training and specific diagnoses, for example, autism, they may not be looking at that question. And so you always want to ask an evaluator like, what are specific questions your evaluation can answer? and is there anything that you do not feel comfortable answering? So, for example, when parents come in to me, I'm like, everything's on the table. You know, we're looking at all areas of development, but that is not always the case. And what is always heartbreaking to me is when I see parents who have invested a lot of time and money in an evaluation and then end up coming in for a second opinion because they didn't realize one area that they really were hoping would be covered would be covered. they just kind of assumed it understandably and didn't know the questions to ask and the evaluator maybe didn't know that that was on their radar either. And so just making sure to have that communication. Um you can ask like what areas do you routinely include? What do you not assess? What do you not feel comfortable with? 6:01 Um if you have a 2e learner, I think it's really really really important to ask, for example, I'm going to use ADHD as an example, how they make a diagnosis of ADHD. This is something as a psychologist for 20 years and as a parent of four kids, my oldest, I could tell you, he had ADHD in kindergarten. And every year as a psychologist, the teacher's like, "He's fine. He's fine. He's fine." It's because he's gifted. So, it looks totally different. And I'll never forget the last day of third grade, teacher said he's fine. Running around, can't find his book bag. You know, all his papers are strewn about. He f he lost his yearbook that was given to him that day. All of these things are like, "Oh, you know, that's typical for him." and they're laughing. I'm like, "This is ADHD." And it took me like actually outlining from the DSM examples for him to get a diagnosis. And I'm someone who this is what I do for a living. And I know all of these things. And it was still that hard because he's 2e and he could do well in school. He could forget to turn over the paper and still get a decent grade on some of these things. And so you definitely want to make sure that for example for ADHD someone isn't just going off of a checklist and many people do that where if school isn't rating significant concerns even if you see it even if they see in the office you might not get a diagnosis. So, you want to make sure like, hey, if school is not reporting concerns and I'm worried that my child, you know, I think they may be autistic or, you know, have ADHD or whatever, will you still potentially give the diagnosis? And there are people where that's a hard no. When I was looking for someone for my own child, I asked that question and there are many people who said without school rating it, we would not consider ADHD. And that still happens like significantly. just talked to a friend this happened to last week. Um, her couldn't evaluate her child, clearly has ADHD. School isn't rating it, so they didn't make the diagnosis. 8:02 You feel free to ask those questions. If you have a really hesitant child or you have a child who, you know, maybe very strong willed or maybe resistant, you're worried they might be resistant to testing, ask those questions. How are you going to make my child feel comfortable? You know, what else do you do during the course of the evaluation? and like are you going to play games or take breaks or those kind of things like that's important you know we want it to be an enjoyable experience for the child as well and just make sure they're not just kind of like hey I have two and a half hours we need to kind of crank through these tests and make sure they have you know if you're questioning like PDA for example make sure they have experience in that and you can ask like hey what are what are some of the strategies you're going to use to help my child feel comfortable engaged and engaged I think cost always an important question like I have um clear pricing on my website most people don't some do but you want to know what is the cost you know most places don't take insurance as you know and you know what are some questions I should ask my insurance company about reimbursement and what's included in the cost as a parent getting an evaluation at the end you get results you are going to have questions you might have questions two days later it might be two months later and you want to know Hey, is that included in the cost? Is it an hourly fee? Like, how are all those kind of things handled? And another thing that some people don't do, but I think is important if it's important to you is like, is there a child-friendly feedback? How should I share this information with my child? Do you help with that process? I think it's huge for kids to learn or adults or whoever to learn how their brain works in a very affirming way and to understand, you know, labels and diagnosis because guess what? We are not kind to ourselves if there's something going on. and even small children will recognize differences so we can actually be really empowering and kind of control their narrative and make it a very positive experience so they understand what's going on with their brain. But that's tricky. And so as a parent you're going to want some support with that too. 10:04 Um, you know, the other thing that, and again, I know we're talking about diagnosis, so I'm probably preaching to the choir on this one, is there are also a lot of people who are worried about a label, but as I said, people are already probably labeling your child. Your child might be labeling themselves. And actually knowing what that is and what it truly means and not what they're like googling can be really, really, really empowering. Also, you know, don't feel discouraged. So, I'm sure as parents of two ears, again, a lot of times you'll hear like, "Oh, they seem to be doing fine or I don't think they need an evaluation." Again, you know your child the best. So, whether it's getting an evaluation, whether it's following up with recommendations from an evaluation, which you want to make sure actionable, you want to make sure that you feel um, you know, you really trust yourself to be a good advocate. Find a provider you think is going to jive well for your child. just because someone else, you know, recommends a provider may maybe it's not the best fit for you. You should feel really comfortable asking them questions and feel like they're going to work well with your child. You know, afterwards, you want to make sure if they're recommending specific therapies that you answer, get all your questions asked about that and that you feel kind of supported in that process, too. And that also, you know, that what is and isn't realistic for your child. So that way, you can kind of streamline some of those decisions. Um, I know I talk a lot. I talk fast in terms of, you know, 2E. I'm sure I also have ADHD as well. Um, but I want to see I do want to pause because I feel like there's so many questions that people could potentially have. There's other things I can talk about, but I definitely want to see if there's any questions that I can read them pull them out for you because there's been a lot of other stuff because people are um introducing themselves. 11:53 Um, some we did an evaluation last year with psychologists who admitted they don't usually see such uneven profiles like our child, two ends of a spectrum. Should we just wait for a couple years to do re-evaluation? Now, eight, ADHD, very gifted in one domain, which explains the exceptional ability and engineering and robotics kind of pursuits. Interesting. So, here's a I always, you know, in terms of like doing an a re-evaluation, I think it depends. And so if you feel like there's unanswered questions, like I just don't feel like they like fully saw the picture or that I don't really understand that something is actionable. You can always get a re-evaluation at any point in time. Some parents though feel like, okay, this is good enough kind of information to get started with and then wait until like a new question comes up and then yes, like closer to middle school entrance or something like that, have a re-evaluation. There are also some middle options. I don't know if other people provide this and I'm not just trying to like talk about my services or anything, but like one thing I do is I have like an evaluation navigator service is what I call it where I literally like review other reports and then talk you through it. And so I think there are probably other providers who do that. So it's kind of like a second opinion to see like, hey, do you have any other thoughts? Does this make sense? You know, are there any other recommendations you would have right now? Does a reevaluation make sense or should I wait? and can always look kind of more in depth at the profile with a different set of eyes. Um, but yeah, some people I will see kind of get a reevaluation kind of quickly because they're like, "Hey, I feel like a piece is missing." And other people wait like, "Okay, it's good enough to get started and then when they feel like they need more information, we'll seek that out." We ended up redoing it at the time where I needed it, you know, for the next phase of life. Like you need it for your SAT, need it for Yeah. college or um someone is also asking about insurance coverage. 13:54 Oh, great question. So, yes. So, insurance, in terms of insurance, if you're like talking about medical or actually most insuranceances, there's basically you need to go to like one of the major hospitals. It's like UCSF, you know, Stanford or PAM. So, one of the things to consider is often times they can serve a good purpose for diagnosing. Sometimes they are more streamlined evaluation, so it may not be a comprehensive evaluation, but you may be able to get your question answered. Um, they do have longer weights. I am not aware of other people outside of with very few exception of other people outside of the major medical facilities that take any insurance. Um so that makes it really hard. I do like on my website I have a guide and it doesn't really work as well for medical of like questions you can call your insurance and ask like one thing you can do and I don't know if this would work for medical but there's something called a network deficiency request and this is where I love AI for this kind of thing and so basically the reason why you're supposed to be in network with your insurance is because they're supposed to provide you with providers in network if you have like United Insurance you're not going to find in network providers who are not from one of the major facilities. What you can do is try to get them to cover an outof network evaluator at an in network rate. And this is called like a network deficiency. And basically making an argument with insurance, which is always fun as most of you know. Um but saying like you have a deficient network. I can't stand network. I want you to cover Jessica at an in network rate for an out of network exemption. And the nice thing is I do I've know specifically with Etna several times it's been granted and what they do is they don't it doesn't change like the fee that I receive like the parent pays me but then when they get reimbured via super bill from their insurance they get reimbured like that person is in network. So it's always worth trying for some of these kind of things. There are some things where it's not diagnostic because schools don't diagnose, but you can if you feel like your school did an evaluation that isn't really meeting the child's needs, you can try to get an IE or an independent educational evaluation, which can be tricky, but that is something where then you can go to a private provider and the school pays for it. But there has to be like an educational need not being met. Um, but there are some things like that that you can definitely try with insurance. 16:20 And one other question, someone saying um they have a seventh grade girl, ADHD, doesn't want to ask questions, doesn't want help, is super smart, passing math, not passing math and science because doesn't want to try and work hard. And the her question is, I'm not sure what to have an evaluator test for. Yeah, good question. And so I think so like if you're looking at that and sometimes they will have questions and even people coming in with some diagnosis but I think like the question is or kind of the feeling you're getting at is like she's struggling and there's something getting in the way of her doing well like and I very much believe as humans like we do well when we can and so whenever I see someone not doing well then it's like well what is getting in the way and so sometimes times it can be the ADHD because with ADHD boring tasks are like can be very very painful very very very painful and so it could be related to that it could be the executive functioning you know kind of required to carry out the task it could be anxiety because they feel that they're going to be overwhelmed and don't know how to plan it out there could be some learning challenges even though maybe they have a very high IQ or maybe they're processing more slowly there's all of these different things that can come in that is why like for example that I do compre comprehensive evaluations and kind of put everything on the table because usually there there is some sort of explanation as to what is going on. And you know that can be very frustrating for the child too because it's probably feeling like okay either one I don't want to try right now because it just feels so overwhelming and nothing I'm doing is working. Um or like people don't think I'm trying so why am I going to bother? It can be all of these things and then that can help to really identify services. So for example, if it's really truly like executive function, there are some great executive function coaches who can help like okay you feel very overwhelmed by science. How do you break this down? What can you do to get support in your own way? If it's more subject matter, someone else could help with that. If it's more like ADHD, then there's other kind of treatment options, too. So I do feel like that can be helpful. 18:35 Great. You're caught up with questions. I see a question about the ACT. That's a really good question. And I actually, and I can put a link to this one specifically, and it's something to think about. It's not just for ACT or SAT. It's also for things like IB or AP. Um, I did write up something about where you can go and this is my website, but it talks about I wrote up about like SAT, ACT, AB, and IB accommodations and college because they do have very like the college board or anything for AP or IB classes have very strict deadlines like of when the valuation had to have happened, how many years ago, when you have to submit it by and I will get parents who unfortunately didn't know understandably that they could get these accommodations or it's kind of like last minute or maybe the kid doesn't do as well on the AP test and like oh my gosh they could have had accommodations. So it is really important to kind of pay attention um to those deadlines and just be aware of those too. 19:46 Yeah, great question. How accurate assessments are as kids since they learn to mask or go out of some habits? Yes, but might have been noted in radio school when the kid was younger. Yes, absolutely. Good question. This is why developmental history is so important. And so this could even be like I will my my specialty is kids. I have worked with adults before and I will sometimes test parents or you know an autism diagnosis is given and as they're learning about they're like huh this explains my life and are looking for a diagnosis and most of the times they have learned very effective masking skills. But there are also not just the rating scales but like interview questions about like they get at like masking and kind of what they may be doing even unconsciously. And it also looks at like developmental history from their perspective and also can always talk to like if there's parents still around that people feel comfortable or spouses or whoever was important in their life to really kind of get at those things because I will see people who I would probably not even notice a lot of the characteristics with what they're describing from their childhood now heavily masking and like the diagnosis maybe of autism or ADHD or something that like really explains um a lot for them. 21:04 Assess for self- advocacy. So the question is, is there a way to assess for self- advocacy? How can you support her solution? Yeah, for a child who doesn't self- advocate, there's not really like a measure for self- advocacy. There are things that get at like, you know, is it related to anxiety? Is it related to like language where they don't feel confident? Is it related to like self-esteem? And sometimes, honestly, it can be personality. You know, as a mom of four who is raising kids, I have 75% who are really, really good advocates for themselves. 100% are good advocates in the home and one will never advocate for themselves outside of the home. Even though we practice, we do all of the things. Um, and so it can be really tricky, but I do think if you know your kid and kind of can get at like why they don't feel comfortable with it, then sometimes, you know, therapeutic support can be helpful even just to role play, practice a self- advocacy. Sometimes it's freezing and not knowing what to say. And so the more you can like roleplay and practice it, they may or may not do it, but at least kind of they're building up the skills and the language to be able to do it, too. 22:14 And I have a question. How do you know if you are dealing with a neurodiversity affirming clinician? How do you know if it's the right fit for you? That's a really good question. I would ask that question specifically. Some of it can be from reviews, too. So, you can ask like how do you take a like how do you incorporate someone's strengths into like the testing and in terms of the recommendations? because we were kind of chatting about this earlier, but I've I've read reports and I even had a report for one of my own kids where I was like, "Wow, even a lot of this is accurate, but it sounds very negative, very, very, very negative and just not very affirming at all." And that's not good. That's not what we would want for ourselves. That's not what we want down on paper about our kids. Your kids may read it. They will definitely read it if they're older. And you can ask like their perspective on like neurodiversity affirming evaluations. How do they make sure their evaluations are affirming? Do they have experience with 2E kids? I just got an email today about how do I feel, you know, do I have do I have a what's my comfort level in working with disabled parents? What's my comfort what's my comfort level with like gender diversity or non-binary? Like ask the questions directly. Anyone who would be working with your child, you can ask all of the questions. Like it's very important. If they don't want to answer them, that also tells you something. Um, and I also think from talking to them and kind of getting the an getting those questions answered, you can tell. Um, you might not be able to, but you can ask them specifically with that. And then also recommendations can really really help with that, too. 23:48 Is it typical for a clin clinician to do interviews if the rating spells does not indicate a strong correlation to autism? So, I would say yes. It should. And so like for example, when I'm working with a family and I do an intake, I am asking questions about everything. And so you may not reporting, I'm going to say autism, for example. You may not be reporting any characteristics of autism in your referral question, but I'm still going to ask about sensory. I'm going to ask about transitions. I'm going to ask about deep dives. I'm going to ask about, you know, routines they have to follow. I'm going ask about friendships and, you know, b social boundaries and conversation. And so I want to know all of those things that might kind of hang with autism even if that's not what you're reporting. And most clinicians should be at least at the intake like you would have a conversation and you know kind of go through all the things asking through like I go through criteria for ADHD because again a lot of parents may not see it in their child but then you start talking about like making these simple mistakes or forgetting things or can't track their belongings or whatever else they're like oh yeah that really does sound like my kid. And so I do think it's important to ask those specific questions. I think with a comprehensive evaluation, you're usually going to get that. Um, if they have experience with autism, which is always kind of a question there, too. I do think for more narrow evaluations, if you're going to someone you're like, I only want the question answered of ADHD, they're not going to be asking the other questions. That's why I personally don't do those types of AVLs. I only do comprehensive AVLs. But I do think those eval serve a purpose. like my second kiddo straight up classic ADHD Vanderbilt from school, Vanderbilt from home, diagnosis, good enough. Um, and it had already we already knew he was gifted. Like that's what we could um so that that like really helped and there. So like he didn't need a comprehensive evaluation. Not everyone does, but I do think that asking the questions can be helpful. 25:45 A lot of traits. Yes. How do you make sure you're not biased towards overdiagnosing autism or ADHD? So everything everything exists with all people and that is a question that you get and I love the book if you haven't readly read it uniquely human which specifically talks about autism and you know kind of use the argument of like people say like this does or does not equate autism and they talk about hand flapping and they're like no hand flapping occurs like look at people when they win the lottery or people win you know whatever they win a prize like oftentimes you will still see people like jumping and flapping their hands may not be autistic And so all of these traits exist in everyone to some extent, but it's looking that's kind of where the art comes in about looking as a whole and putting everything together for that person. Um, and you know, there can be people like I actually am now seeing more underdiagnosis of autism. Um, maybe overdiagnosis of ADHD, but still under diagnosis depending on if they're 2 or not. And so I do think but I also think it's important like for example when someone's going over like impressions or diagnoses with you to make sure you're getting your questions um answered and if it doesn't jive with how you're thinking about things as a parent like be very direct like ask those questions like hey that hasn't been my experience or like you know this has been my experience how does that relate to autism or ADHD or how does it not if they're not getting the diagnosis too. 27:16 Um, yes, criteria for the evaluation or questions for the evaluation. Yes, the parents guide that they just put on has a lot of questions and I think it's good to go through there and kind of feel like what is the most relevant for your child. I agree like I also will forget to ask things. Um, and so that can be helpful. Again, feel free to ask all the questions. I do have parents often, and I will just say this, ask me for a list of tests I'm going to give. I don't think that that is the most maybe useful thing because unless you're a psychologist, like I actually one of my kids is being tested right now and I didn't even ask a psychologist what test giving. I just made sure things were covered. But you do want to ask like about domains that are being covered. Like there's specific things like that. And again, the questions that are going to be answered. The one thing that is also included in the evaluation guide is even just about giftedness. Like once you hit the age of six for the whisk, we have extended norms. I often have to recalculate people's IQs who come in to see me if they were done elsewhere or done, you know, where they're not using extended norms and the IQ's significantly higher, which can make a difference for things like if we're looking for the Davidson program or something like that that have a pretty high IQ cutoff. So, there are questions like that included in the guide that you can definitely feel free to ask anyone who would be working with your child. 28:38 Thank you so much, Jessica. Um, I know we I'm sure people have more questions. I'm going to stop the recording.

We work with hundreds of K-12 faculty from schools all around Silicon Valley each month. If I had to boil down the most common theme that’s come up lately, it’s all about anxiety. In fact, an educator from one of our school partners recently shared that “Anxiety overall has really popped up as a bigger issue.” Grappling with student anxiety is core to the work of school counselors and school psychologists who are part of our Neurodiversity/2e Collaborative. We meet monthly to talk through problems of practice that our members face. In January, a middle school counselor brought a pressing problem for our group to consider: How could her team support students as they process their anxiety when the news feels heavy and the “macro-system” feels unsafe?  Our discussion focused on three main topics: First, how and why are these anxieties experienced differently by neurodivergent and twice-exceptional (2e) students?  Second, what are some actionable strategies that could be used to approach this topic in a way that considers variation in learner needs? Finally, how can we help our students understand different approaches to advocacy and action? Pulling it all together, the answers, ideas, and actionable strategies we brainstormed became an Educator Quick Tip Sheet (link at the bottom of this article) that may be helpful for any school counselor, school psychologist, or other educator considering ways to address today’s climate and the anxiety it can induce across school communities (students, parents, and educators).  We hope this resource serves as a starting point to think about your situation and how you can serve as a guide through turbulent times for your community.  1. Why the Political Climate Hits Neurodivergent 2e Learners Differently The world can feel like a volatile place. For twice-exceptional (2e) and neurodivergent students, the current political climate, specifically concerns around immigration enforcement, can create a unique “perfect storm” of anxiety. These students aren't just “worried about the news” – they are often processing it through a specific neurodivergent lens, and possibly their own community or family’s experiences.  Many are particularly sensitive to social justice issues. They may possess an intense moral compass. Injustice isn’t just a concept; it’s a visceral experience that can lead to significant emotional dysregulation. For neurodivergent and 2e students with a high sense of justice, being “milquetoast” about the realities of change can actually feel like a form of dishonesty. And, the confluence of upheaval creates “systemic anxiety”. Macro-level stresses that span changes in governmental norms, the impacts of artificial intelligence, and other post-pandemic challenges filter down through the community and school, increasing anxiety for the adults in the child’s world, that land squarely on the child. Plus, students are often thinking and talking about issues (like immigration enforcement practices) even when adults don't hear them talking about them. This creates a “hidden” layer of stress that can manifest as unexpected behaviors or withdrawal. Add to this that neurodivergent and 2e children are already more prone to general, situational, or social anxiety , and these students may both be more tuned into what is happening and primed for action, while feeling more stressed than others may expect because of what is happening across our broader society.  2. Actionable Strategies for School Counselors, School Psychologists, and Educators to Benefit All Students The Neurodiversity/2e Collaborative brainstormed specific, practical steps for schools to create safe spaces to talk about these unsettled times. By normalizing that it is okay to feel “off” when the world feels loud, and by providing frameworks to handle disagreement productively, we help all learners, in particular those who are neurodivergent and twice-exceptional, navigate the world with both their sensitivity and their passion intact. Help Students Build a "Fact-Base" for Critical Thinking One of the best ways to combat anxiety is to provide a sense of intellectual control. And while stressful, the issues raised in our current political climate generate authentic situations to learn critical thinking skills. Social-emotional and other lessons can be integrated to help students understand how to gather information, look at it critically, and develop a fact base to ground their emotional experience and social justice instincts.  Use tools like Ground.news  or provide articles with varying perspectives (left-leaning, right-leaning, and neutral). This allows students to use their cognitive strengths to analyze how  information is presented rather than just reacting to headlines. To support teachers who feel vulnerable or unequipped, look for grade-appropriate videos (such as from PBS ) followed by standardized FAQs for educators to use with students. This ensures all students receive consistent, factual information regardless of the classroom they are in. Create “Opt-In” and Private Spaces While it’s important to integrate discussion of how all students are grappling with current events, not every sensitive student wants to engage in-depth in class, in a debate, or in other public spaces, as it can increase their distress. But others will want to dive deeply. Plus, it can be difficult to tell how students feel and what their needs are. Two ways to address this are through:  Lunch Bunches: Host optional lunchtime groups to discuss current events. This gives “high-justice” students a place to dive deep without forcing more sensitive or “internalizing” students to participate. Keep in mind that some students may have intense responses and it’s important to respond appropriately, with supportive statements such as “I see that your sense of justice is really activated right now. Let’s look at how people in history have channeled that feeling into change.” Anonymous Inquiry: Use “Question of the Day” boards or anonymous drop-boxes where students can share what is surprising or scaring them. This allows counselors to take the “pulse” of the student body without putting individuals on the spot. Provide Art as an Emotional Outlet Some students (and even faculty) may feel too overwhelmed for verbal conversation. Some may find that artistic projects provide the outlet they need to process. Provide opportunities for everyone in the community to create art projects to capture their evolving experiences. These projects may allow students to share the heavy emotions they feel around safety, justice, and change, without needing to find the perfect words. Bring in Real-Life Experiences Inviting immigrants, survivors of systemic change, and professionals working in social justice spaces to speak can help students move from abstract fear to a grounded understanding of human resilience, as well as provide concrete ideas about ways to move forward. In addition, it can help give them a sense for how adults cope with big challenges and potential jobs that align with their interests to make a difference.  Manage the “Push-Down” Anxiety Anxiety isn’t limited to students – teachers, staff, parents, and other adults in their lives are feeling it as well, and their anxiety can sometimes filter down to students. Be sure to check the pulse of the adults on campus; if they’re highly anxious about the political climate, the students will absorb it, too. Be sure students know which specific staff members are “safe harbors” for high-intensity political, social justice processing, or calm and quiet spaces. 3. Civic Empowerment: Understanding Ardent Advocacy While educators can use today’s context to teach the importance of peaceful protest, it may be equally vital to acknowledge that history is often moved by those who stand up with a more ardent, uncompromising spirit. (Check out edWeb’s recent session: We Can Teach Hard Things, Like Civil Rights .) To help students understand the various intensities of advocacy, we can look at the different philosophies within the Civil Rights Movement. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. utilized non-violent civil disobedience as a strategic, highly disciplined tool to reveal the “moral tension” of the status quo. On the other hand, Malcolm X offered a more ardent critique, emphasizing self-defense, racial pride, and the idea that freedom should be attained “by any means necessary.” With middle schoolers specifically, we wouldn’t expect a 12-year-old to organize a high-stakes demonstration, but they can grapple with the concept that “peaceful” does not mean “passive.” The activists of the past were incredibly brave and often faced great danger.  By presenting both, we aren't telling students which path to take; we are showing them that advocacy is a spectrum. Some movements focus on building bridges, while others focus on demanding the right to exist. This gives students information to find their voice in a democracy. Learning the mechanics of peaceful protest or how to write a letter to a representative can transform “powerless anxiety” into “purposeful action.” And then consider applying these lessons to the lives of 12-year old, noting that “ardent action” might look like refusing to stay silent when a peer is being targeted, researching the “uncomfortable” parts of history that aren't in the standard textbook, and using their art or writing to speak a truth that others are ignoring. Keep in mind that students come from different family backgrounds with a range of responses to today’s political climate. Regardless, we can help all learners navigate the increased anxiety in our environment, support those neurodivergent and 2e students who feel anxiety more intensely, provide opportunities to learn advocacy strategies, and channel intense emotions into age-appropriate actions. Our goal isn't to keep students in a bubble, but to give them the tools (critical thinking, creative expression, and civic agency) to feel safe outside of it.  Download this Educator Quick Tip Sheet to share a summary of these strategies with your broader educator team: Pulling it all together: Educator Tip Sheet for Supporting Neurodivergent and 2e Students in High-Stakes Times 1. Identify the “Justice Flare-Up” Recognize that for 2e students, a "behavior" is often a "reaction" to perceived injustice. The Look:  Intense focus on news, "checking" behavior, or sudden withdrawal. The Internal State:  High sensitivity to systemic unfairness (e.g., immigration enforcement) can feel like a personal threat or a moral emergency. The Action:  Don't just address the behavior; acknowledge the underlying concern for fairness. 2. Implementation: The “Fact-Base” Framework Curate, Don't Censor:  Provide learners with diverse news sources (e.g., Ground.news ) to analyze media bias. The “Neutral” Starting Point:  Use standardized video snippets (e.g., PBS ) to ground the class in facts before opening up to discussion. This protects teachers from feeling “on the spot.” 3. Create “Pressure Valve” Spaces Opt-In Circles:  High-justice students need to talk; high-anxiety students need a break. Use “Lunch Bunches” or optional SEL breakouts so students can choose their level of engagement. Non-Verbal Channels:  Offer Art stations or anonymous “Question Boxes” for students who find the verbal weight of these topics too heavy to express. 4. Level Up the Advocacy Discussion  The Spectrum of Change:  Discuss the different “volumes” of advocacy. Use the contrast between Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (non-violent civil disobedience) and Malcolm X (ardent self-defense and systemic critique) to show that change often requires a range of intensities. The "Middle School Pivot":  Frame “Ardent Action” in an age-appropriate way: Upstanding:  Speaking up for a peer in the moment. Researching:  Digging into the “untold” history of marginalized groups. Creative Truth-Telling:  Using projects to highlight issues the world is ignoring.

Parents of twice exceptional (2e) learners often notice early on that their children understand things deeply, even when everyday tasks don’t come easily. Conversations can move quickly into big ideas or detailed interests, yet school participation may be inconsistent from one day to the next. Many families spend time trying to make sense of how both can be true at once. After decades of working closely with highly gifted and 2e families, I have watched this same pattern emerge again and again. The same child who resists one kind of work may stay absorbed in another when the level, pace, or topic fits how they think. What first looks like inconsistency starts to come into focus. When learning meets the learner’s strengths, interests, and preferred ways of thinking, engagement follows. When Ability and Learning Environment Don’t Match Supporting 2e learners often requires looking beyond the academic level itself. Parents frequently notice that a child’s engagement changes depending on their environment. How safe a child feels, whether they experience real connection with others, how manageable the sensory surroundings are, and whether their interests are taken seriously all shape their willingness to participate. When these elements come together, learning naturally occurs. When they do not, it is usually a sign that the environment still needs adjustment so the learner’s strengths can take the lead. When Strengths Are Given Room to Grow I think often of Evan*, whose parents first described him as extraordinarily sensitive and easily overwhelmed in his elementary school classroom. From a very young age, Evan’s intellectual curiosity was unmistakable. At three years old, he asked his parents to explain negative numbers. He had a natural sense of rhythm, an intuitive grasp of mathematical ideas, and an early fascination with how physical systems worked. None of these strengths was visible in his school setting. What teachers noticed instead was a child who became upset easily, struggled with emotional regulation, and shut down under pressure. By second grade, the disconnect had become painful. Evan’s teacher told his parents that he might someday be strong in math if  he could just memorize his math facts for the timed tests. His mother, also an educator, eventually recognized that Evan’s strengths could not shine in that environment because the constant noise, distractions, and pacing of the classroom were overwhelming his nervous system. His parents eventually made the difficult decision to withdraw Evan from school and begin homeschooling, where the learning environment could better fit his sensory needs. Once his learning setting changed, Evan’s strengths emerged quickly and clearly. With learning offered at his own pace and depth through private instruction and small-group classes, Evan soared in mathematics. He soon discovered a deep passion for physics and began taking college-level coursework by the age of ten. Today, Evan is in graduate school studying physics.  I also think of Veera*, a child whose creativity was evident early, even when it was misunderstood. In kindergarten, Veera was frequently corrected for coloring people in rainbow colors. One moment stayed with her for decades. A teacher, frustrated by her choices, asked her in front of the class whether everyone could agree that her mother did not have blue hair. Years later, when Veera recalled this moment, she quietly added that blue was her favorite color and that it made her happy to use it when she was drawing pictures of people who felt joyful to her. Veera was never identified as gifted in school. She struggled academically in ways that were later understood as stealth dyslexia, not discovered until college. Her grades were unremarkable. She never participated in gifted programming. And yet, when she was given space to create, her strengths were unmistakable. Veera’s parents enrolled her in local art classes, where she found social belonging amongst other “creative” friends.  Summer art camps continued to expose Veera to new art forms, where she discovered an interest in abstract painting. One of her instructors, impressed by the depth of her work, encouraged her to enter her first showing at a local library. These affirmations boosted Veera’s self-efficacy. Her parents followed Veera’s lead, supporting her as she sought other art showings and contests. Though she did not win every contest, her motivation and resilience grew with these experiences. Today, one of her most affirming childhood memories remains seeing her abstract painting displayed at the state fair, ribbon attached. Those moments mattered. They communicated that the way Veera saw the world had value, even when other parts of school felt inaccessible. Veera went on to study art and design in college, finally with supports in place that made learning workable. Today, she works as a designer for a Hollywood studio. Looking back, it is clear that Veera’s strengths just needed recognition and encouragement during the years when identity and confidence were forming. Then there is Jonah*, who insists even now that he had no motivation whatsoever as a student. As he describes it, school felt uniformly dull. Learning meant worksheets, tests, and assignments that bore little relationship to anything he cared about. His parents, thoughtful and loving, offered opportunity after opportunity, yet Jonah felt largely indifferent. What Jonah did care deeply about was gaming. Throughout high school, he spent most of his free time immersed in narrative-driven history games set in medieval Europe. He analyzed political systems, debated historical accuracy, and compared game mechanics to real historical events, often spending hours talking online with other players about how faithfully the games represented history. At the time, none of this was recognized as learning. After high school, Jonah described himself as having no particular ambition. When his parents encouraged him to try a single online college course, he chose world history simply because it aligned with his gaming interests. What surprised everyone, including Jonah, was how quickly he excelled. Years of immersive gameplay had given him a deep contextual foundation. He earned top scores, engaged actively with the material, and found himself lingering in virtual office hours to talk with the professor. That professor encouraged him to major in history. Jonah went on to complete his associate degree and then a history major at a highly respected university, graduating with close to a 4.0 GPA. Today, he is a second-year law student. In hindsight, Jonah’s engagement grew once learning aligned more closely with his interests. What Evan, Veera, and Jonah share is not a single profile or outcome, but an experience familiar to many 2e learners. In each anecdote, their strengths fell beyond what traditional schooling was prepared to recognize or nurture, but their families recognized these strengths and found opportunities where they could be celebrated . This is often referred to as “positive niche construction,” constructing an environment that best matches our unique learners, rather than expecting these learners to fit into mismatched learning environments.  Building Opportunities for Strengths to Shine   For many 2e learners, strengths become apparent when we pay close attention. You may already see it in your child: the way they stay absorbed in an idea, the intensity of their questions, or the depth they bring to something that truly interests them. Paying attention to those patterns often tells us far more about how they learn than any test or checklist ever could. In some families, this understanding unfolds gradually through observation and conversation over time. In others, it helps to pause and gather those patterns more intentionally. When families want that added clarity, Sequoia Gifted partners with them to develop affirming, strength-based learning profiles using the Suite of Tools,™  — a research-informed framework designed to illuminate the strengths and learning patterns of 2e learners. Through positive conversations with the parents, teachers or other caregivers, and the child themself, we look at how a learner thinks, what genuinely engages them, the conditions in which they do their best work, and how they approach complexity and challenge. When those insights are brought together into a clear learning portrait, families are better equipped to shape school, homeschool, and after-school environments that intentionally nurture their child’s strengths while supporting growth across academic, social, emotional, physical, and creative domains. Helping families shift from asking how their child can better fit school to asking how learning environments can be shaped to better fit the child often changes what becomes possible. When strengths are recognized and nurtured, confidence has space to build and engagement becomes more sustainable. Over time, children see themselves as capable and curious rather than perpetually misaligned. And when strengths are given room to shine, a love for learning is able to grow. *Names and identifying details have been changed to protect privacy. Lisa A. Jobe, JD, is a leading national educational specialist working with profoundly gifted (PG) and 2e learners and their families; She is also completing her doctorate in education with a focus in PG and 2e learners. Lisa is the founder of Sequoia Gifted and Creative , an educational consulting and school advocacy practice supporting gifted and 2e families. She is also the co-founder of Sequoia Gifted Academy, the first homeschool umbrella created specifically to provide educational support for PG and PG-2e homeschoolers. Lisa is an international speaker and author whose work centers on strength-based, individualized learning pathways. She looks forward to meeting families at the Reel2E Strengths Fair on March 8. You are also welcome to reach out at sequoiagifted@gmail.com .

As parents, we’re full of knowledge, know-how, wisdom, and solutions, and when our kids are   infants and toddlers, we respond in a compassionately curious way, trying to understand what   they need or how to help them. As our kids get older, our expectations increase in line with   their age but even more so with their verbal abilities: the higher their verbal abilities, the   higher our expectations.   When they aren’t meeting those expectations, we don’t naturally respond the way we did when   they were toddlers. Instead we immediately move into our full of   knowledge-wisdom-solutions-director mode:   ● You need to stop …..   ● You should be …..   ● Why aren’t you …..   ● If you don’t …..   ● You know you aren’t supposed to …..   Here’s the thing: behavior is communication no matter our age , and when our kids are not   doing something they “should” know how to do, they are telling us something. To help, we need   to stop directing them and get back to our compassionate curiosity infant and toddler parenting   ways, even when our kids are older. It is critical for our relationship with our kids, for their   sense of self, and for the skills they need to develop.   The reality is, that our kids most likely already know these things, too, which is why they can’t   stand it when we remind them of the “whats” and tell us to stop nagging them ! Our kids have   the knowledge and many times they even have the motivation (the internal desire to get it   done). What they have a harder time with is taking action , especially on the things that aren’t   as interesting, clear, novel, or easy for them. The bottom line is that our kids don’t have a   KNOWLEDGE OR MOTIVATION GAP ; they have an ACTIVATION GAP, and if we want to   help, we have to stop directing and start getting curious!   Historically parents and society have perceived inaction as a lack of motivation, laziness, or   disrespect, but we now know, thanks to our increased knowledge of the brain and neuroscience,   that there are multiple invisible neurophysiological reasons that people don’t take action:   ● Neurotransmitter and transmission differences   ● Asynchronous brain development   ● Interest-based versus importance-based nervous systems   ● Trauma   ● Lagging executive function skills   ● And more   Taking action, or what I refer to as ACTIVATING , is especially challenging for our 2E kids (and   adults, too!), and it is ESSENTIAL to understand our kids’ actions (or inaction) through this neurophysiological lens of activation, especially when it seems like they “should” be able to   do it.   Why?   Because if we continue to use a traditional, directive approach like the one described above,   or other behavioral approaches such as behavior charts, rewards, or consequences, the only   outcomes we can be certain of are these unwanted ones:   ● our relationship will become strained,   ● our kids will   ○ perceive us as nags,   ○ tune us out,   ○ become more disengaged,   ○ argumentative,   ○ defensive,   ○ ashamed,   ○ guilt-ridden,   ○ or shut down, and   ● The action will still not have been taken!   In directing our kids or using a behavioral   approach, we aren’t activating them to do   things; rather, we are activating their   fight-flight-freeze response and their i nternal   belief that something is wrong with them ; that   they have a character flaw because they can’t   do what they “should” be able to do.   Our good intentions for helping our kids will only backfire when we stay in the role of   director—telling, reminding, correcting, managing — and we also take away an opportunity   to learn what they are thinking and experiencing while also building their awareness,   problem-solving, and ultimately their responsibility, agency, confidence and activation!   The solution lies in shifting to what we did naturally when our kids were little. Instead of   being directive and telling our kids what to do (and when, where, why, and how), we   respond as compassionately curious   detectives, or as I also like to say, partners in   problem-solving with our kids. Our kids have more knowledge and we need to help them   uncover ways to use it in goal-directed ways.   What our kids need most when they aren’t doing what needs to be done or they aren’t meeting   expectations, is for someone to show up with them as a partner in problem-solving : ● to understand and validate their experience by   listening without reacting;   ● to reflect and discover with them   ○ what is making it hard;   ○ what obstacles are keeping them from taking   action;   ○ what factors may be at play   ● to clarify values, boundaries, and expectations in a   calm, matter-of-fact manner   ● to brainstorm and co-create creative solutions and   strategies that work with their brain and meet the   need   ● to iterate on the process until a win-win solution   and strategy is found that works for everyone   In being compassionately curious partners in problem solving, we let go of fear, control,   frustration, and our own perspectives and ways of doing things, and we lean in to learning with   our child and about our child, just like we did when they were toddlers . In the process, we   help our kids learn important skills that they will be able use throughout their lives:   ● self-reflection   ● self-awareness   ● self-acceptance   ● self-agency   ● self-determination   ● self-advocacy and how to use help, and   ● problem-solving   Additionally, we strengthen our relationship by modeling and communicating in open, honest   trusting, transparent, and authentic ways ; laying the foundation for a trusted relationship that   our kids can depend on and turn to when faced with inevitable challenges throughout life.   The compassionately curious approach involves several steps:   Step 1: Regulate our own emotions. To be compassionately curious, the first thing we   have to do is get and be calm. (After we have finished problem solving with our child, we   can then release our authentic emotions to a friend, a partner, or just on our own; we just   don’t want our emotions to be targeted at our child or when we are trying to understand   and problem-solve with our child).   Step 2: Connect with our child . We approach our child and in a calm, curious tone,   connect with them. We either make an observation or ask a question. Several   communication techniques can be used for this approach: The goal in this step is to connect in a way that minimizes our child’s emotional   reactivity and provides an opportunity for our child to share with us what they are   thinking about or doing in the moment. We want to start to understand their   perspective before we start to talk about what they aren’t yet doing or our concerns.   ● Hey, what are you doing ?   ● What game are you playing?   ● What’s on your mind?   Step 3: Validate and Explore. Once they have shared what is on their mind or what   they are doing, we respond in a way that validates their experience and lets them know   we have heard what they have said and maybe talks for a few sentences or two about   what it is they are doing or thinking about, and then move into asking or noticing things   about what they are not yet doing.   Oh, that seems like a fun game. Are you the character in white? (and continue for   a bit until it makes sense to switch to something such as…..)   I notice you haven’t started cleaning your room.   When were you planning to start cleaning your room?   I’ve noticed you haven’t been able to get started on your homework at   night, what’s up?   When would be a good time to talk about your goals for this school year?   ○ I’ve noticed you’ve forgotten your water bottle for the past few days, what   ideas do you have to help you remember it? Are you open to hearing my   ideas?   What is on your “to-do” list today? When do you plan to do each of those   things?   Would you be willing to show me what you are doing to keep track of your   assignments, meetings, and other activities you have this year?   How much longer until that game ends so you can get started with your   homework?   What might help you remember to brush your teeth at night?   I   see it is 7:45. I wonder what we do at 7:45 every morning.   I   see your clothes didn’t make it into the hamper. What might help you   remember to put them there?   I   know you are planning to go to the movies tonight. What time will you   start your homework so you can finish it before you go?   I   see you have your soccer cleats on. I wonder if there is anything else   you will need for practice tonight.   It seems like it has been hard for you to remember to brush your teeth at   night. Would you be open to my ideas to help or do you have ideas that   would help you remember? Step 4 : Iterate on the process to develop a win-win .   So you think putting your toothpaste on your bedside table will help you   remember to brush your teeth at night? Ok. When will you put it there?   So you will finish this game in 10 minutes. What time is it now? How will I know   you have started homework at 6:30? What can I do if I notice that you haven’t   gotten started and are still gaming?   What might make it easier for you to get started with cleaning your room? Sounds like you would like to get started on homework at 7. Unfortunately, we   have to go pick up John from drama rehearsal at 7:15 so you will only have 15   minutes to do your homework. Right now it is 5:30. If we have to leave at 7:15,   what time will you get started to ensure you have enough time to finish before we   leave?   Dr. Ross Greene’s Collaborative Proactive Solutions   and the process of motivational   interviewing known as OARS   provide great language and processes for being compassionately   curious. Also, Linda Murphy’s declarative language   provides an alternative way of   communicating with our kids that names and observes things rather than asking which can be   another helpful tool in being a compassionately curious partner in problem solving.   By approaching our kids with compassion and curiosity , we communicate to our kids that we   value their voice, their experience, and we want to understand and learn together. We also can   affirm their frustrations that sometimes things in life are frustrating, overwhelming, hard, tedious,   boring, AND we can find ways to do them or ask about alternative options.   So, the next time you notice that your child is gaming and not doing their homework (yet again)   or you walk into their room and clothes and trash are everywhere, instead of starting to tell your   child the importance of their homework or that they need to clean up their room, pause for a   moment, put your detective hat on , and with a calm, compassionate and curious voice   that you used when they were little, say, “Hey! Whatcha doin?” and see where it might lead. About the author: Courtney Edman is the founder of 2tametheshamE, Inc., where she provides coaching, education, and advocacy for neurodivergent children, young adults, and their families. She helps parents and caregivers develop strategies, skills, and confidence to support twice-exceptional learners, and produces the See Me Podcast. Courtney also delivers trainings, webinars, and guest lectures on giftedness, twice-exceptionality, and neurodiversity-informed approaches to learning.

TL;DR An IEE is a parent-requested second opinion when they disagree with a school evaluation. The school must either fund the IEE or file for due process. IEEs are especially important for twice-exceptional students whose needs are often masked by strong grades. Families are not limited to a district’s preferred evaluator list. Schools must consider IEE findings, even if they do not adopt every recommendation. One of the most important protections available to families navigating special education is something called an Independent Educational Evaluation, often referred to as an IEE. Put simply, an IEE is a second opinion from an assessor outside of the district. If a child has been evaluated by a school district and a family disagrees with that evaluation or its conclusions (e.g., parents believe the child needs services and the school district’s assessment concludes that the child does not need services; the school district recommends a change in placement and the family believes current placement is appropriate), parents have the right to request an independent evaluation at public expense. At public expense means that the school district pays for the evaluation; as long as the evaluation meets the district’s criteria and is completed under an approved agreement, the student’s family does not pay out of pocket for the assessment. Key takeaway:   An IEE is a parent-requested second opinion, paid for by the school district, when families disagree with a school evaluation. Once a parent requests an IEE, the school district must respond without unnecessary delay. Many families choose to submit the request in writing  because it creates a clear paper trail. At that point, the district has two options. They can agree to fund the independent evaluation, or they can file for due process to show that their original evaluation was appropriate.  Key takeaway:   After an IEE request, the district must either agree to fund it or file for due process to defend their evaluation. Why IEEs Are Especially Important for Twice-Exceptional Students In my work as a neuropsychologist independent of school districts, one of the most common patterns I see in twice-exceptional students is a gap between what traditional measures of ability or achievement show and how a student actually functions day to day at school. A child’s performance on tests or assignments does not always reflect how much effort, support, or regulation it takes for them to meet everyday academic demands. School evaluations are designed to answer a very specific question: can this student access the curriculum as it is currently structured? To answer that question, evaluations often focus heavily on cognitive abilities and academic achievement. For twice-exceptional students, this approach can miss important pieces. Executive functioning, emotional regulation, and social cognition are not always captured well by achievement scores alone. Strong skills in one area can mask real challenges in another, particularly for students with uneven profiles. As a result, a twice-exceptional student may earn average or even above-average grades while expending significantly more effort, emotional energy, or compensatory strategies than their peers. When teams focus primarily on outcomes rather than process, it can be easy to overlook the cost at which those outcomes are achieved. Key takeaway:  T wice-exceptional students can appear to be doing well on paper while working far harder than peers due to executive functioning and regulation challenges. At the heart of every IEP decision is the question of access. Access is not only about grades or test performance. It is about whether a student can reasonably engage with instruction without disproportionate effort, distress, or breakdown. For twice-exceptional students, access can appear intact on the surface while requiring unsustainably disproportionate effort underneath, especially as executive functioning demands increase with age. Key takeaway:   Access means learning without disproportionate effort or distress, not just earning acceptable grades. For many families, the purpose of an IEE extends beyond eligibility alone. A comprehensive evaluation  can help clarify how a child learns, where effort is being overextended, and which supports actually reduce cognitive load rather than simply increasing output. Even when a student does not ultimately qualify for special education, this level of understanding can meaningfully inform accommodations, instructional strategies, and advocacy. Choosing an Independent Evaluator If the school district agrees to fund an IEE, they typically provide families with a list of evaluators who meet the district’s criteria. What many families do not realize is that parents are not automatically limited to that list. Families may choose any qualified evaluator, as long as that evaluator meets the school district’s established criteria and agrees to the district’s terms. These criteria can vary by district and may include licensure, professional training, geographic location, and reasonable cost. Some districts also specify the type of professional who may complete the evaluation. For example, a district may require that the evaluation be conducted by a school psychologist, or they may permit any type of psychologist that is licensed in the state to complete the evaluation. Understanding these criteria early helps families make informed decisions and avoid unnecessary delays. Key takeaway:  Parents are not required to choose from the district’s evaluator list if other qualified options meet district criteria . Once a family identifies their preferred evaluator, the school district typically contacts that evaluator directly to establish a contract. What District IEE Contracts Commonly Include IEE contracts vary by district, but many include similar expectations. These often involve a review of records, standardized testing, rating scales or questionnaires, and sometimes a classroom observation. Some districts also request that the evaluator attend an  IEP meeting  to explain findings and answer questions. Many districts place a cap on what they are willing to pay for an outside evaluation. If the evaluator agrees to the scope of work, cost, and timeline, both the evaluator and a representative from the district sign the contract. Once that happens, the district has formally agreed to fund the evaluation, and families do not pay out of pocket for the assessment itself. Timelines are often more flexible than district evaluations. While school-based assessments are tied to state-mandated timelines (e.g., 60 days in California), IEE contracts frequently allow a longer window for completion, sometimes extending to the end of the school year. What the Evaluation Process Often Looks Like In my clinic, the evaluation typically begins with a thorough parent interview and careful review of prior assessments and records. Reviewing the school district’s evaluation is important, not because tests can never be repeated, but because many standardized measures have retest interval guidance and practice-effect considerations. This helps the evaluator select appropriate tools and avoid unnecessary duplication. Families are also encouraged to share relevant medical records, therapy reports, or other documentation that helps provide context and deepen understanding. When possible, a school observation occurs before the child meets the evaluator, allowing the observation to reflect the child’s typical functioning in the classroom. Testing is usually spread across multiple sessions to reduce fatigue and support more accurate results. After testing is complete, the evaluator generally meets with the parents first to review findings and answer questions. The final report is then shared with the school district, as district-funded IEEs typically require that the report be provided to the district as part of the funding agreement. Even with a district-funded evaluation, evaluators still need signed releases of information to communicate with schools, teachers, or other providers. In many cases, it is helpful for evaluators to request documents such as the most recent IEP, progress reports, grades, and attendance records directly from the district to maintain clear documentation. After the Independent Evaluation Is Submitted Once the school district receives the IEE, the IEP team will schedule a meeting to review and consider the findings. In many cases, team members have already read the report, and the outside evaluator provides a summary of conclusions and recommendations, followed by questions from the team and the family. The school district is required to consider the results of an IEE when making decisions about a child’s educational program, though they are not required to adopt every recommendation. Still, a well-conducted independent evaluation can play a meaningful role in shaping how a student’s needs are understood and addressed. Key takeaway:   Schools must consider IEE findings when making decisions, even if they do not adopt every recommendation. One Final Note Early in my career, I wish someone had told me that requesting an IEE is not about finding fault or creating conflict. The goal is to gain a clearer, more complete understanding of how a child is functioning and what they need in order to learn sustainably as they grow. In my experience, schools genuinely want a student to succeed and they appreciate collaborating with someone who can see things from a different perspective. IEEs can help translate a student's strengths and differences into actionable insight for a student, their family, their teachers, and the individuals at school that support them. For many families, this clarity becomes a foundation for more productive conversations with school teams, more targeted supports, and a shared understanding of how to preserve both learning and well-being as expectations increase. Ultimately, an IEE is a tool. When used thoughtfully, it can support collaboration, deepen understanding, and help ensure that a twice-exceptional student is not only performing, but truly supported in accessing their education in a way that is realistic, humane, and sustainable. About the Author Dr. Lethco helps parents raise capable, self-directed kids using executive functioning strategies designed for neurodivergent learners. She is a neuropsychologist and the founder of Brain Insights in Walnut Creek, California.

Our May 2025 support group for parenting 2e kids, Tarra Knotts discusses the traits and experiences of students with PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance). Read the transcript here I think I ran into real to eat before I ran into parents helping parents. But anyway, I've been running the PDA, pathological demand avoidance or pervasive drive for autonomy parent group with parents helping parents. Originally it started in real 2 and then we moved it over to parent helping parents. We meet on the fourth Thursday of the month at 7:00 p.m. on Zoom and then again on the second Sunday of the month on Zoom. So the Sunday one's coming up. Yes, it is on Mother's Day and I'm going to do it anyway. Just to I guess it's hard for me to see comments, but if anyone wants to chime in that they have a kid that this seems to make sense for, just chime in. We have it it's a term coined all the way back in the 80s in the UK by Elizabeth and Ann Newsome. I think they recognized that it was some sort of neurodiversity, some sort of autism, but it wasn't behaving. The normal approaches to autism, behavior therapy and stuff like that weren't working. These kids like change. They don't do well with rules and regulations, opposite of many many other kinds of versions of autism. It's not exactly Asperger either. Very commonly occurs with anxiety, depression, mood disorders, oppositional defiant disorder, ADHD, and guess what? Twice exceptionality. Many of the PDA kids are very bright, at least in some areas, maybe not every area, but they are independent thinkers. It's not uncommon for them to be LGBTQIA as is many neurodivergent people tend to not pay attention to the social norms and they are more their authentic selves. They don't look as classically autistic for sure to the point where it can get very hard to get an autistic diagnosis because they are often highly verbal. They, you know, are bright. They look like they can understand social stuff, but their loss of autonomy or the bumping into demands can really throw them into a tail spin. So again, loss of autonomy is a big one. Like a normal four-year-old, if you're like, "Hey Joey, can you go pick up the balls and throw them in the basket?" would be like, "No problem." But Joey, who is PDA, might have done that if you didn't tell him to. It's just that if you're gonna make me, I'm not going to thing. They generally, like many bright kids, don't see a real hierarchy to this world. It's generally everyone's the same. There is not the higher the adults and the kids. Everyone's the same. The teacher and the kids same. Their nervous systems are extra sensitive. They perceive their world they feel it bigger kind of I think sometimes people think autism doesn't pick up social cues I think in this case it picks it up but it overpicks it up. It might over interpret it might interpret as a threat it might interpret it extra negatively it might anyway it's over interpretation. Again they feel they look social and generally common autistic therapies don't work, but some mental health approaches work, counseling approaches, attachment, attachment work often helps with kids. There's this is a book, Can't Not Won't. Going to blank on her name, the author's name. Anyway, there's a book that's titled Can't Not Won't. And it's it's kind of describes these kids as like they're always saying, "I can't, I won't." But they they want to and they just can't even make themselves. They want to go to school, but they can't make themselves. They want to do their homework. They want to get a job. They want to have friends. And they just can't get over the anxiety and the intolerance for distress. And so that's why more of a counseling approach can help these children. This is I took this from one of my PDA groups and I asked what are your common struggles? School refusal is super high on the list. So despite being bright, despite actually liking education, they can't get their can't get themselves to go to school or stay at school, it just feels too big. Life refusal, you know, brushing teeth, changing clothes. They kind of live in defense mode. Some of them have very negative, you know, self-defeating sensitivities. You know these are just some common quotes my my kid had my my kids avoid committing to activities even if they want to do them because it's an unspoken even if it's their own desire it's an unspoken expectation so then they don't want to do it. We run into this with my teen all of the time. I don't she's like I don't want to do my laundry cuz then you're going to expect me to do my laundry. I don't want to do well in class cuz then you're going to expect or I'm going to expect me to do someone's going to expect me to do well in class. I think the hardest parts can be a lot of big lashing out, anger, dysregulation. Sometimes instead of externalizing, kids internalize. They might self harm. They may refuse to eat. They may just literally shut down. Kind of more of a freeze response. It's as if if any of you recognize yourself as a little demand avoidant, you can understand why being in a job setting or being around social other peers can can place a lot of demands on us. But certainly there's gifts. They generally aren't so authentic. Both of my kids have a tremendous sense of humor and really good with words. So it sometimes has made it hard on the diagnosis aspect because they get idioms, they get, you know, more than one meaning of a word. They're loyal, they're wise beyond their years, and just like any other twice exceptional bright child because they perceive and pick up the adult world in their young experience, there is just such a conflict and it does can can lead to some hard days, some really, you know, this world is too hard to handle kind of feelings. This is the book by Eliza Fricker. This is I this I have this this was a presentation from Big Mind School. And they are over in East Bay and they definitely understand PDA. I do think there's other settings and I can talk about that a little more, but they really get, you know, how to pick battles, anxiety management, kind of working with the spirit, not against the spirit. And they can they can see you know you know being if they have to demand something they come at it from an interesting angle. I have to do that at home all the time. I can never and these kids you can never come at it from an authoritarian or authoritative parenting expect. You always have to come in from the side. You have to come with the child to where you want them to go. You have to kind of parent by influence not demands. And you kind of have to give them time. I you know, if I'm going to tell my kid they have to do something, it's never going to happen that day. It's sometimes going to happen a couple days later. It also depends on how regulated or not regulated they are. If they are otherwise their anxiety is not treated, their depression is not treated, their mood is not treated, some of this this won't work. You're in a battle and then you need to get other kinds of help in first and then you just are left with a beautiful PDA child that is more regulated and not as heightened. This is more about demands. Just you recognize how many demands all children experience. You know, put on your shoes, sit here, do this assignment, go to bed. And even us adults don't always like to do those things. And indirect demands are obviously perceived demands that kids put on themselves. You really I have found over the last my daughter's 17, my only hope of parenting a kid like this is through a relational model. Like I can't be the normal authoritarian authoritative parent. So I have to like I have to know that she's my she's safe with us. We care about her but and we're working with her not against her. But I think I had another thought there. Sorry. Obviously no shaming it is so hard. I think I've had to do a lot of work on my own anxieties of expectations of my children, especially as they get older. Oh my god, if she doesn't work do doesn't learn how to do homework, she is literally never going to get to college even though she could teach the class. That kind of thinking. I think they don't get a lot of positives, they get a lot of negatives. So especially indirect positives, not direct positives. A lot of kids don't like compliments, probably because they're so smart, they don't need to be complimented by us. Here's some general PDA resources. I love Christy Forbes. If you are an adult that recognizes yourself as a little PDA, you might really like her. At Peace Parents is by Casey Erlick. She is she's some a person that a lot of parents that are familiar with the PDA literature, the websites and stuff really like her. And I think it's really good when you're in a really hard spot when your kid is just in tantrums and raging or completely shut down. It's worth following her advice. But it I say this gently. I think especially as kids get older what I see happening sometimes is that if we if we remove all demands they don't kind of get a you know they don't get a little bit of a a tiny callous to some demands. So, I think you have to strike this balance between reestablishing peace and then doing little little demands that that are within their realm so they can start to feel capable again. We and and unfortunately for my family, we really did have our kids did had to do some out of home care. My my son actually just got back from a really loving therapeutic boarding school where they kind of got him to relearn that he can do hard things that when he wants to do them. So now we are in a better spot. But at peace parents is a start when you are really in a really messy situation and or if your kid is quite a bit younger. PDA USA has a lot of good support groups. Ross Green is never going you're never going to go wrong with Ross Green. PDA society is a decent place. It's UK. So if you join those groups, you just have to be aware that UK resources are different and things like that. And I think this is my Facebook group, Bay Area PDA group. I run that. It is not part of PhD, but there's a lot of crossover. Alex Klein is in the Bay Area. He's a psychologist from Kaiser who really recognizes PDA. Absolutely awesome. Children's Health Council, we've had pretty good luck with them understanding PDA profile. Summit Center has done well with recognizing the autism in a PDA kid. Like I said, sometimes it's hard to get a diagnosis. But all that said, like therapeutically, what what's been helpful for my family is actually finding therapists, parent coaches, things like that that are really coming from a very trauma-informed relational attachment approach rather than, I don't know, CBT, DBT, those sort of like cognitive behavior therapy approaches that a lot of that is the normal go-to for mental health kind of stuff, mental health, autism. And once in a while you can find a person that is a behaviorist, a BCBA that understands PDA, but it's rare and you have to kind of go hunting for it. It's not to say it can never happen, but it's rare. So, I think you can go ahead and stop my slides. I have a lot more in there.

As parents and educators, we have traditionally been trained to look at our neurodivergent  children through a deficits-based lens, focusing more on what they struggle with than on the  unique strengths and cognitive abilities that can contribute to their personal growth and success.  In part, that’s because it’s easier to see what’s difficult. We know when reading or focus is hard  for our children. We see the frustration that comes with having difficulty managing transitions or  emotions. But when that’s the narrative children hear about themselves, it can quietly shape  how they see who they are and what they’re capable of.  But every neurodivergent child also brings a unique brain, unique abilities, and unique ways of  thinking about the world. A strengths-based lens starts with the question: What is already  working for this child?  That then challenges us to think about how we can build from there.  When we intentionally notice and use a child’s strengths, something powerful happens. Kids  experience success, start to feel capable, develop a stronger sense of who they are and start to  notice what they’re good at. That sense of competence fuels motivation, confidence, and  engagement. What A Strengths-Based Approach Really Means A strengths-based approach to supporting our children doesn’t mean ignoring challenges. It  simply means we don’t start with them. At its core, strengths-based learning and support  means weaving a child’s strengths into how they learn and how they show what they know.  Often, a strengths-based approach is interpreted to mean “interest-based learning.” But that is  only one form of strengths-based support. Interests absolutely matter, but learning strengths go  far beyond hobbies or favorite topics. They include how a child thinks, processes, notices,  connects, builds, remembers, analyzes, creates, or focuses.  For neurodivergent kids, using strengths isn’t just encouraging, it’s often an accommodation.  When learning is connected to what a child does well, it becomes more accessible, which  increases the likelihood of success.  In neurodiversity-affirming environments, supporting the whole child means helping them  develop skills while also protecting their sense of self. A child might struggle in one area and be  exceptionally strong in another. For example, a dyslexic student might find reading exhausting  but have an incredible ability to visualize, design, or build. In a school setting, using visuals,  hands-on projects, or creative formats, can create a bridge that allows the child’s strengths to  support growth. Why Neurology Justifies Strengths-Based Support  Lots of kids are able to focus and direct their attention to whatever task they are being asked to  complete, whether or not they are interested in it. They comply with requests because they  know they are expected to do so, and they have the self-regulation skills to initiate tasks and  complete them.  Many neurodivergent kids can’t do that in the same way, not because they don’t care, but  because their brains process motivation differently. Brain chemistry and brain wiring influence  attention, reward, and effort. This means many neurodivergent learners are deeply motivated by  what is meaningful, interesting, or stimulating to them and far less motivated by tasks that feel  disconnected or unrewarding.  That’s not a question of character. It’s a matter of neurology.  When learning is built around strengths, it works with a child’s brain instead of constantly  fighting against it. Strengths-based supports give kids an entry point into learning that feels  doable and from there, skills can grow.  Starting With Strengths  The adage “ A rising tide lifts all boats” provides a compelling analogy for strengths-based  approaches. Just as the rising tide makes all boats ascend uniformly, leveraging a student’s  existing strengths—their personal “rising tide”—can help uplift and support their weaker areas.  When you lift what’s already strong, other areas can rise with it.  This approach doesn’t only support individual growth, it also champions the diverse ways each  child thinks and learns, celebrating their unique potential.  In practice, this means adults first identify what a child is good at and then use that as the  foundation. If a student loves creative writing, that strength can become the place to practice  planning, organizing, revising, and self-monitoring. Executive functioning skills don’t live in  isolation, they grow best inside meaningful work.  Many neurodivergent kids understand skills— in theory. They can explain social rules,  emotional strategies, or organizational systems. But using those skills in real life is much harder.  Strengths-based support can help close that gap. When kids practice skills inside activities they  care about, like robotics club, art, gaming, animals, storytelling, or design, the learning sticks. Strengths Don’t Always Look Like “School Strengths” Many neurodivergent kids have large discrepancies in their abilities. If you were to look at a  profile of one child’s areas of strengths and difficulties, it would look like a mountain range with  large peaks and valleys. The goal of strengths-based support is not to flatten those differences,  but to use the peaks as support structures for the valleys  A strengths-based lens starts with the question: What is already  working for this child?  One of the most  important shifts for parents and educators is realizing that strengths are not always the things  schools typically reward. The strengths of neurodivergent learners are as diverse as they are.  Strengths may include:  ● intense focus on specific topics  ● noticing details others miss  ● thinking in pictures  ● craving routine or novelty  ● seeing big patterns  ● using language in advanced or unusual ways  ● thinking very literally  ● building complex systems  ● solving problems logically  ● immersing deeply in passions  The next step is learning to notice these less-traditional strengths, understand what they can  look like in everyday life, and use them to support learning, confidence, and development.  These may not show up as high grades, neat work, or quiet behavior. But they are real,  meaningful strengths. When adults recognize them, value them, and use them intentionally,  they become powerful tools for growth.  Adapted from Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools: Transforming Practices So All Students Feel  Accepted and Supported by Amanda Morin and Emily Kircher-Morris (Free Spirit Publishing,  2025)

Parenting twice-exceptional children often feels like working in an emergency room. Parents are constantly assessing, prioritizing, and adapting to meet the most immediate needs, whether that’s dysregulation, competing demands at home, school pressures, or simply getting through the day. Courtney introduces the concept of triage parenting, a framework that helps parents stay grounded, flexible, and compassionate while navigating these high-intensity moments. While triage parenting is exhausting, it is not impossible, and it is not a journey parents have to face alone. Courtney will share insights from both lived experience and professional practice, offering reassurance, perspective, and practical ways to make this demanding parenting journey more sustainable. Transcript 0:00 With you. Click okay. I'm excited to share this um framework with you. And as uh Teresa mentioned, I am a parent of a child that well a young adult actually who's twice exceptional. He's now 23. Um, we didn't come to understand that he was twice exceptional until he was 17, which as you might imagine was, um, led us through some pretty curvy paths and challenging paths. Um, but I'm happy to say we're we're kind of on the other side of things and he's thriving now. We have a beautiful relationship. Um, he's working towards his degree in computer science. I have two other uh, young adult girls. One is a physician assistant. one is on her way to becoming a speech pathologist. So, we have a lot of medical people in our home. Um, I love to play tennis. I play on a competitive tennis uh women's doubles league every week. I love to travel. Um, and you can see my faithful companion in my office and on my kayak Baxter. 1:07 Um yes I've um as part of my background so I started this company to tame the shame inc which is a coaching organization service um for neurody divergent individuals across the lifespan and their parents. Um but I came to that through uh the field of physical therapy and my son merging together. Um so I was a pediatric physical therapist. I'm still licensed and I also worked with uh people that have uh complex pulmonary um diagnosis uh progressive um pulmonary diseases. Uh and my brain has been trained and my brain works as for problem solving, right? And for relationships and I couldn't figure out how to support my son. And when I finally did and the portal opened and this world of twice exceptionality um be I became aware of I was finally able to say ah the tools that I've been looking for and I'm going to sh it's it's really truly my calling to share them with others. So I'm excited to move forward and start to share this concept of triage parenting with you. And I think the the language triage comes naturally because of my medical background. 2:29 Um, and also if you're interested, I co-host a podcast on Apple and Spotify called the See Me podcast with I host it with another parent of a person who has a twice exceptional son. So, what are tonight's objectives? I'm hoping that um, similar to what Teresa did, we'll review a little bit of the complexities of raising a twice exceptional child. you've got a great definition that she provided about the distinguishing strengths um and the various challenges that exist simultaneously um and there are complexities that come in raising a two-way child as a result of those that asynchronous development that we like to talk about. I want to review some basic principles of triage and emergency room care. Um we're not going to get into the clinical side of things. It's really just understanding the philosophies and approach that exist with triage and emergency room care. Um, and then explore and apply these principles to our lives as we're raising these twice exceptional kiddos and why those principles can be really really important as we're going through our days. And mostly I hope the biggest takeaway is that um you'll feel empowered and supported in this journey of raising twice exceptional child or children, teens, young adults wherever you might be in your journey um because of having these principles and kind of understanding this framework uh that I'll share tonight. 4:04 So what is as we get started let's just try to think about what is our role as a parent or a caregiver and I tried to summarize it a little bit and other people might have different things that might be included but in general my view uh and I think many people's views um is that we want our children to become confident we want them to be happy responsible respectful, well-grounded members of society who can be as independent as possible, right? And pursue meaningful work um and manage this roller coaster of life. And we do that by providing basic needs for them. We nurture, we validate them, we're encouraging and teaching them. And we're advocating for them, right? Um, and sometimes that we're trying to figure out like who is this child and how can I be the parent that they need me to be? And that's a question that sometimes we don't ask as parents. But when we are raising these twice exceptional children, it's so important to say, who is the parent that I need to be for you given the brain that you have? Sometimes it's the opposite. People are like, "You're the child. I'm the parent. You need to be for me the child that I need you to be." But I think it's super important to keep in mind the flip. 5:28 So, in addition to being a parent, we also have so many other hats that we are wearing, right? We cook, we're driving our kiddos, maybe, you know, we have a spouse, we have a partner, maybe we are doing things solo, so we have even more hats. We're the household CEO. Um if we might be working, we might be volunteering, we might be doing both, right? And then we also are our own person who we came to this parenting role before, right? So we were we were individuals even before we became parents. And so we have our own hobbies, we have our own strengths, we have our own challenges. And we bring our own interests, right, that sometimes we have to put on pause or manage. But we're wearing all of these hats. and so are our kids, right? And that results in all of these competing demands that we are trying to manage and navigate on a daily basis, weekly basis. We're trying to make sure the kids have clean clothes, there's food on the table, the lunches are packed, right? Everybody's academic needs are met, emotional needs are met, social needs are met, their interests are met. Not to mention, right, we've got we're trying to get out the door to work or we're trying to pay the bills. So, there's all types of competing demands. And that's just when you are a parent in general. 6:52 But when you add a child with multiple exceptionalities to the mix, it gets even more complex because we have bigger emotions with people who are twice exceptional, right? We have more needs that our children have more needs that have to be met for our children with their lagging skills or um their um intensities, right? They have heightened emotions. They might have sensory sensitivities and they have this thing called asynchronous development. And that's a whole another topic that I'm sure you can find more information about on the real.org website. But effectively that means that their brain is developing at different rates. Different parts of their brain are developing at different rates and importantly can develop at different rates compared to their chronological age. So you can have someone who has, you know, abilities in as as a 16-year-old when they're chronologically 12 and abilities simultaneously at that 8-year-old level. So we're talking about are we talking with an 8-year-old? Are we talking with a 16-year-old, right? Or are we talking with a 12-year-old? And that creates all types of complexities. 8:11 And we also know that our children are wonderful. And they are simply these actions that they have, the things that they do, the complexities that they have are simply a part of who they are. And sometimes what makes it even harder for us to understand and to grasp is these differences are brainbased. It's all invisible, right? So unlike many other challenges um that people might face that might be physical, we can't see them. They come out through their actions. And that's sometimes what makes this even more complex because we're seeing it through the lens of what we understand behavior to be. And there are so many societal and traditional ways of perceiving behavior that are not brainbased that make it really challenging for us to figure out how do we approach this if rewards and consequences and traditional parenting approaches don't work. 9:13 And so we have these wonderful kids with these strengths with these challenges. We have all the hats that we're wearing and we're trying to make it through daily life and the ongoing challenges are real for everyone. They're real for our kids, right? They're having meltdowns. They're not getting what they want. They're feeling things very deeply. They're not necessarily in environments that are working for them yet, right? They're avoiding school. They're lying to us. Um they're forgetting things. They're distracted by things. None of this is happening intentionally. It's a part of their neurohysiology. And the challenges are real for us, too, because we're really trying to figure out how to support our kids. But sometimes we can feel lonely. We can feel frustrated. We can feel sad, right? We're confused, unsettled. I know that's how I felt a lot of those first 17 years with my own son. And I know that I have a lot of parents that I speak with who are calling and saying, "My kid's forgetting his homework." you know, he's melting down all night long. We're screaming at each other. It's just not working. And it's because the traditional approaches won't work with our kids who are twice exceptional. 10:31 And so, we have these homes where our parenting experience is just like, "Please help me. Things are chaotic. They're constant. They're overwhelming. I've got competing priorities." And because of the nature of our kids, things are intense, right? They're uncertain and we can't hit pause. We have to keep going. So that's where this triage parenting concept came in to play, right? Because when I think of a home that has those similar character that has those characteristics, I was talking with a parent and I one time and I said, you know, we just have to triage what's happening in our homes. And when I thought about that even more, I actually came to think about the emergency room has such a similar type of environment and how do they manage with grace, perseverance, all of these unpredictable things happening that are constant with competing priorities that are overwhelming, intense, uncertain, chaotic, and they can't stop either, right? 11:44 So, it made sense that not only was this the competing demands that we have to manage in our own home needing to be triaged, but how can we use the response of the emergency that the emergency room providers have to inform what we do? And that's sort of how it all came into play. And when I think about it even more, I think about the patients in the emergency room. I think about our kids, right? They're not. Nobody no patient in the emergency room is intentionally giving anybody a hard time. And our kids are not giving us a hard time either. People in the emergency room are having are disregulated. They're emotional. It's an emotional time. Kids in our homes who are twice exceptional have heightened emotional experiences. There's a lot of uncertainty. The patients want to be well. Our kids want to do well, right? Parents want to do well also, right? And patients neither neither patients nor kids can figure things out on their own. They need help. And that's where we as parents come in and the providers as well. 12:56 So what doesn't help? So if I go into an emergency room and the doctors or the triage nurse would roll their eyes at me or say, "Oh my gosh, what how could why did you break your arm?" Like how silly. Couldn't you have done better? Right? Or if they criticized me or roll their eyes, like they're not providing any judgment or shame. They're not going to give up on me. They're there to help me. What can I do to help you? It's not necessarily what they're going to say, but Right. And so, we as parents can learn from that. And I think the one of the things that I had to learn as a parent and that I help parents learn in my coaching is that these traditional parent perceptions that kids are intentionally doing certain things. I have to help retrain the way that you perceive things. They're not intentionally being disrespectful. They're not intentionally um doing things to make us mad. They're they're doing things that their brain is telling them that they should be doing. And there that's a whole another talk, right? But that but they're doing things because of the neurohysiology of their brain. In the same way that when we're seeking medical care at an emergency room, it's because our body is doing something and we need help that we haven't yet been given. 14:19 So we need a different approach. We need a different toolbox, right? And so there are other things that we can learn from the ER. How do they not respond? We know what how do they respond? They respond. They're composed. They're calm. Hey, come here. Let me let me check let me check you out and see what's going on. They're validating. They listen to what we are telling them in order to help inform our response. A response. They're flexible. Okay. This is an ideal ER, right? But for the most part, this is what they're doing. And certainly, if there's a true emergency, they're acting more swiftly, but they're still using the same principle approach. They're acting swiftly. They're they're figuring things out quickly while also remaining calm. They're thinking creatively. They're problemolving, right? And they're responding rather than reacting. And I hope you understand when I make um that differentiation that their responding is coming from kind of a frontal lobe logical response as opposed to an emotional reactive place. I hope that makes sense. And of course they have a team around them where they can be collaborative or they're working with the patient, right? And that's why a place like Real 2 is so important because we need to have our team around us as well. 15:53 All right. So when we think about the ER and we think about the tri triage parenting and we think about similarities, there also are differences. And I want to make sure that this is a framework. It's not like we are medical providers because there are definite differences between the medical um triage and ER providers and us. The relationship is shortterm. Ours is long term. We have a very strong hopefully very strong emotional connection to our kids and it's a very professional relationship. Hopefully no emotions are involved beyond the humanto human connection right like I mentioned before they're part of a system of support and a full team whereas many times we're working alone surrounded by a community hopefully but in the moment it's sometimes it's just us. They're doing shift work. We're always on duty, right? They have years of training. We're trying to come to things like this to help expand our learning, but we're really doing some on in the- moment training, right? Sometimes we haven't we're faced with a situation that we've never faced before, and we have to figure out how to think clearly in the moment to manage it. we're learning something new about our child and we have to figure out what to do in the moment, right? 17:19 And then um as a medical provider in the ER, they're only responsible in the moment, right? Whereas we they're only responsible for one patient. Well, they're responsible for the patient in front of them at the moment. whereas we're responsible perhaps for three children plus the bills plus dinner plus trying to get three kids out the door all at the same time. Right? So there are differences. It's a framework. But what we can learn is this crossover space and I used the yellow and blue intentionally with the green in the middle, right? Um so that we do in both the triage and the ER providers and parents can have a similar response, right? And it's that response that is so important for us to learn from when supporting our twice exceptional students or twice exceptional kiddos. What I also would argue though is that in any relationship, if we can use these principles, it would make the world a kinder place, right? If we can always remain calm, we can um think about positive intent that no, everybody is having a hard time, not giving a hard time. 18:42 And so when we think about triage medicine versus triage parenting, it's a very similar process, right? It's a similar framework. We're gathering information. We're assessing. We're prioritizing. Right? In medicine, they're stabilizing. In parenting, we're regulating. Right? But we always want to get curious. They're going to treat clinically. We're going to respond and they're going to discharge. And then we get to follow up and keep doing the cycle again and again and again. 19:18 And so when we think about triage parenting and kind of the pillars of it all, there's this triage color code system. And I intentionally left the black off because we don't want to go to that place where people are deceased or it's just nothing more can be done, right? So we don't want to go to black. This is not salvageable is the language that they used. But really, if we can think about when when things are urgent, when things are important, and things are like they can wait, it's kind of the last step. Um, right? But when things are urgent, one of the most important things that we have to remember is we want to make sure that we're staying calm. We're regulating. And that's the first step is to get calm and to regulate so that we can then respond to the important things. We want to make sure everybody's safe. We want to make sure everybody's feeling emotionally safe because when we can't when we are reacting when we are are acting from an emotional brain it's going to result in everything escalating. 20:31 When our child is res is is responding or reacting from their emotional brain nothing is going to get through to their logical brain. they won't be able to access any of the information that we're giving them. It's it's there's a lid on their ability in their brain and on their ability to receive that information. So, the first thing that we have to do triage in order of importance is manage our own emotions and support or co-regulate the emotions of of of others around us. I always say making sure people are safe first physically trumps any type of co-regulation, right? So, we have to make sure that we're responding and keeping people safe and then making sure that we're all managing our emotions. So, sometimes we have to act and say, "I'm going to talk about this with you afterwards, but right now we have to go." Right? But we're making sure that we are responding as a triage nurse would. Okay? I need you to come here and you're going to go to this bed. So you have a confident, calm, composed voice while you're taking that action in order to help ultimately the person to co-regulate and get to a safe space. 21:52 And then we can go about doing the important work of what's important. What's the most important thing that I have to do here? Is it I think I have some um examples, right, of can't get past the edit, right? I'm at home and I have a variety of different things happening. I've got, you know, Jason has his room and he's got computer parts all over his floor. We're concerned that the dog's going to eat them. Um, I've got um Jeremy down here who built this massive Lego structure and Jason knocked it all over and now he's up in arms. I've got laundry that needs to be done. I've got to get John to his robotics practice. What do I do first? Right. So, I probably pick up and console, if I were putting my triage parent hat on, right? I would pick up and console Jeremy to try to support his regulation. I would talk with the with Jason about needing to go and getting into the car and talk to John about getting into the car to get to robotics practice. And then at a later time, I'm just going to leave the laundry. That's the green, right? The green the laundry is going to have to wait till later. 23:17 The talking with J Jason is going to have to happen at a later time also because what I need to do right now is console Jeremy regulate, right? Get John to robotics and then I can come back and have a conversation with Jeremy about what happened and do some repair work between the two boys and then at some point I can get the laundry done. Right. So, I'm trying to figure out like sometimes I might want to have a conversation between Jeremy and Jason about what he did, but in the meantime, but I can always go back and do that. In the meantime, I want to regulate first. And here are some other scenarios that I put out. But I don't know if people who have come here tonight might have questions or situations and scenarios that they have come about um have come up in their own lives and how we might be able to put our triage hat on for them. Because ultimately when we put our triage hat on, you know, the goal is to assess the situation, make sure everybody's safe, stay calm, regulate to avoid escalation, prioritize things, and say, "What's the right next step here?" Right? 24:40 And be flexible, patient. Um, one of the most important things is to validate other people's experience. Get curious. Right. And and continue to be creative in our ability to multitask. Um and then when you go back and see that green, we always want to reflect on what we did to see what we might be able to do going forward, right? What are some things that might help us to avoid situations in the future or increase independence in the future for other people? Um, and one of the most important things to do is celebrating success, right? Validating success. So, if you're looking at these on the right, these are kind of the things that I think of as um examples of the different triage levels. So, the managing emotions and and safety and health, the things in life are important, but they're not as important as relationships, right? When we're managing our twice exceptional kiddos, well, supporting. And one of the things that I always say um and has been true in my life is from our relationships skills will be built. If our relationships are not if our relationships are strong, connected, and trusting we'll be able to get to where we want to go. It's from these the strength of our relationships that we find the path forward. It may be a different timeline. 26:38 Um, and then I gave some examples in the last thing of things that we can just let go of because we can ultimately have conversations about them, but it's not the highest top priority of things to pay attention to. Whether it's mismatched clothing or it's not the best meal on the table or there's a mess of toys on the floor or a lot of times we get stuck in future thinking. Well, if I if he's not able to do this now, he's never going to be able to do it. If he's not able to do this now, he's not going to be able to get into the job. Well, the most important thing is what's happening now and what's the right next step. So, I'm hopeful and I'm happy to go through these scenarios if people want to. I don't know what the time check is at this point um Teresa but um ultimately this is the goal of the triage parenting toolbox and I'm hopeful that it will um provide a framework for you to think about putting your triage parenting toolbox on manage relationships. Think about what are the priorities. How do I prioritize relationships first? being calm and then responding from there. 28:04 Um, wonderful. Thank you, Courtney. Um, yeah, I think that why don't we take maybe one of the scenarios and just for me as a parent, um, it sounds like the co-regulation. So, first regulate yourself. Second is the co-regulation which supports the overall relationship, right? That's kind of why we went to the kiddo who was having, you know, the meltdown first was because we wanted to help co-regulate, which would then help in future times that he knew he was sick. Kind of things like that, you know. So, it's it's it's that relationship part of through co-regulation if I'm mistaken. Okay, cool. Yeah. Do you have one scenario that you hear a lot or um let's see, Yel, do you have one in the comments, too? We did we did put a uh if you want to drop something in the comments, maybe somebody has dropped one in the comments. Yay. Ya, do you see? 28:55 Yeah, I'm constantly having to triage between fighting the school with my child who has an IEP and my 2E child who needs support as well isn't getting it in school because, and I quote, she gets good grades because I'm constantly putting out fires on the other end. So the the challenges are the I'm a visual learner, Yael. So process things. It's in the chat. It's in the chat if you'd like to. Ah, okay. Perfect. Look. And if you'd like the person to if they want to come on off um mute and talk, we can do that as well. So, fighting the school with my child who has an IEP and then also has a two-ye child who needs support but isn't getting it. So, always putting out fires. Oh, yeah. So, you're always putting out fires with the school. Is that I can stop sharing. And there it is. So you're trying to triage.

Assessments and services can frequently be cost-prohibitive. At REEL, we are frequently asked about free or low-cost options that don’t break the bank. *Please note! This is not a comprehensive list, but a collection of recommendations by our community. These resources have not been vetted by the REEL team. Everyone will have their own experiences, we urge you to use this list only as a starting point. Please email us if you have more ideas to add. Get a special education assessment through your school district (even if you homeschool) through age 18 (unless you graduate early). See our IEP guide for 2e students (coming Oct 2023). Get an Independent Educational Evaluation (IEE) through your school district. Contact Parents Helping Parents (PHP) for free support with special education, assistive technology, mental health, and more. PHP staff speak many different languages, including English, Spanish, and Vietnamese. Contact CASE Advocacy for free consultations, and sliding scale file reviews, training, and advocacy services. Contact Children’s Health Council (CHC) for assessments and ongoing therapies. CHC offers financial assistance and accepts Medi-Cal. Contact Turning Points Educational Solutions , they often get 90% reimbursement even out of network, single case agreements with insurance, and have payment plans. Some diagnoses can be obtained from your pediatrician or a developmental pediatrician UCSF, Stanford, and similar universities run studies where part of the study is doing an autism assessment or other type of evaluation. These are free and they usually pay you for participating in the study, as well as give you the report and go over results with you. (e.g. search for "Stanford autism research study") Some medical centers do a great job of getting insurance to cover your needs. One parent wrote: In San Francisco, the CPMC/Sutter Kalmanovitz center has a number of services (and a great OT gym). They are great at working with insurance to get things covered, and they have a sliding scale I believe when insurance won't cover. Service level depends on the staff there at the time. But I've had 100% success with all the OT evaluations and OTs -- they have always been excellent! Sometimes you can get a reduced cost assessment by working with a trainee/student in a graduate program (under the guidance of a professional). Try calling Stanford, UCSF, Summit Center, etc. Students with an autism diagnosis can get many services through the Department of Rehabilitation (DOR) One parent: DOR paid for her son’s tuition and books for 5 years of college. Regional Center paid for two of her son’s summer internships at Lawrence Livermore. SSI/SSDI paid for her son’s rent/room & board for the 5 years he was in college. She had to create an ABLE account to shield her son’s earnings from his many summer internships. And she protects her son’s ability to continue to receive public services through a Special Needs Trust. The State of California published this Self-Help Information for Special Education Cases , which includes information on low-cost or free advocate and attorney options .

REEL is excited to announce the publication of the DEAR REEL Model for educators: Classroom Strategies for Twice-Exceptional Student Success  The DEAR REEL model consists of four lenses: Develop Connection Embrace Flexibility Attend to Strengths Reframe Behaviors This document walks readers step by step through each lens of the DEAR REEL model. For each lens, you will find:  an overview and definitions;  personal stories and examples;  suggested articles, books, blog posts, podcasts and videos;  additional online resources; detailed lists of practical suggestions by grade level for elementary, middle, and high school. While this document is intended for educators, parents can also use this document to help them better understand and evaluate school options and environments. Click here to download your copy!