Working Memory and the 2e Learner

https://youtu.be/yiLnkRyDwO0?si=c2TbRPhoCb0KRuwt

Working memory affects every part of a child's life; however, most people know little about it beyond perhaps a score on the WISC test. REEL hosted Thea Slingland, Director of Educational Services for Learnfully, to talk about where working memory is used in daily life and how it affects routines, academics, socializing, and emotions for 2e learners.

Transcript below

[0:00 — Welcome, REEL's mission, and website resources] Host (likely a REEL co-founder/staff member — unclear from transcript): right well good evening everyone thanks for coming um so we are REEL and we are a Bay Area non-profit that works to raise awareness of twice exceptionality and really help students Thrive both at school and at home and so we do that by putting on many parent uh events and we also go to schools and we do work with Educators and truly trying to bridge that gap between home and school everything in service of the 2E students in our lives so just really briefly in case you may not know the term twice exceptional or you've just heard it and um kind of new to the concept twice exceptional students are students who have both like a distinguishing strength a high ability or potential in one or more areas and then simultaneously they've got some complex challenges so we often talk about students who have dyslexia or dlex or ADHD or Autism but other twice exceptionalities could include uh Oppositional Defiant Disorder anxiety Etc and these students are kind of experiencing both ends of the spectrum at the same time and so it's kind of a helpful metaphor to consider them uh green they've got a mix of their yellow strings their blue challenges and they're their own unique uh child with their own unique needs they can't be kind of addressed separately I also just want to quickly draw your attention to our website uh REEL2e.org we've got a lot of information there there's a new feature that we've just launched a few months ago called the 2E topics tool where you can find a whole bunch of resources we've got a fact sheet that you can print out and hand to Educators we have some informational sheets about like is your child child twice exceptional we've got some great blog posts and then all of our events that are recorded are then available on our website as well so if you're not able to attend or you've found out about a past event you can find those recordings and get that information as well [2:29 — Upcoming events, fundraising, and speaker introduction] and so we are just you are the first to see our calendar for the next um winter and spring of 2023 um and one last event of this year so we have a really interesting talk by a REEL member whose child is going to attend college around video game design as a major so if you think your child's wasting all their time playing video games maybe not um and we have three different support groups we have a bi-monthly support group hosted in conjunction with PHP where we break out into rooms and you can meet other parents of Tui Learners um we have an amazing uh person named Gil gershoni joining us in February to talk about dyslexic design thinking and how neurodivergent brains have hyper abilities that should be looked at as strength and not deficits and then in March we have autism level up coming to speak about how we can best support neurodivergent children and how to change our thinking in terms of trying to fix children that are broken in April we have Andrea wachter who is pretty famous on insight timer coming to speak to us about how to be mindful and how to manage our anxiety which a lot of parents of Tui kids have in Spades and and then we will round out the year with Dr Tasha Oswald from open doors therapy talking about how to celebrate the child you have and how to take it easy on yourself and take care of yourself and you can find all of these in RSVP for all of these on our website REEL2e.org and we also host a Google group for parents where you can ask and share resources and ask questions of other parents we are also available on Facebook and Twitter and all of our past recordings are available on YouTube we wanted to make sure to mention that we also offer educator workshops you can read the very long list here but we have about 13 workshops that we can provide either ourselves or in partnership with others and we actually have seen more parents making these connections with their children's schools and introducing us to their schools so that we can really help expand educator understanding and awareness of choice exceptionality and how to work with these awesome and interesting kids so please introduce us if you would would like to bring us to your school and I think I think so um this is a new new thing and it's uh something I just want to be kind of upfront and honest and real I guess about like real uh it makes me a little nervous to bring this up but I think it's important um to announce that we do have a fundraising campaign going on right now I feel a little bit like the person on NPR who's like call in please help us beat our match but we are um just launching as a non-profit this last summer we just love bringing all the programming to our community we are so bolstered by the comments of appreciation that we get for the work we do and we really want to be able to continue it and build it and grow it we know there are at least nine thousand twice exceptional children in Silicon Valley and we currently are probably reaching about a thousand families so it's a lot of people we still aren't supporting that really are feeling lonely and lost and need our community support we know there are about 35 000 Educators in Silicon Valley and we've probably had contact with maybe a thousand if we're lucky uh we're doing a lot of great work right now with schools we're partnering with San Jose State University to help in the teacher prep program but we really have a long way to go and we can get there a lot faster with support from our community um you know even if it's just considering what would you pay to come to an event like this and donating that each time you do something if you're able we really would love to keep our events free we know that having a neurodivergent child puts a financial strain on families so we don't want anyone to not be able to participate in our programs because they can't afford to pay to do so but if it is something that you are able to do to support all the work we're doing we would really appreciate it and we do have a generous matching donation of twenty thousand dollars that we would like to reach as soon as possible so if you can donate to us we'd greatly appreciate it and that is the end of my NPR speech on donating to REEL so our speaker tonight is Taya slingland and she's the director of ed services at learnfully um Tay has had 20 plus years of diverse teaching experience including k-6 gen ed teacher and being a K-8 special ed teacher and being the director of learning support at a private school and also doing case management and she takes great care to create highly engaging lesson plans and is an expert in motivating Learners her areas of expertise include dyslexia scl autism online education and executive functioning and she joined learnfully to take an active role in finding a better solution for Education our children have big dreams and it's up to us adults to help them build a staircase to their Dreams by tapping into what interests and motivate them so without further Ado I will give it over to Taya

Taya: thank you okay I'm gonna go ahead and switch over to my share hold on and see hold on of course you can see my screen all right uh so I first of all I I really appreciate the uh fact that we are we are reaching out to your program reaching out to all of the families and understand the matching campaign so that that excites me so you'll be hearing from me shortly on that one um working memory and the 2E learner [8:41 — Taya: What working memory is and how it powers executive function] um if you don't have a pen or pencil and a piece of paper I I encourage you to get one because we will be doing a little simulation to kind of get you in the shoes of your learner for this so our agenda for this evening will we're going to start with understanding working memory um I I know uh we come from a broad spectrum of where you're coming into this you know some parents may be brand new just receive that diagnosis and needs to kind of go I I know working memories in here what does that mean for my child um in the classroom at home you know what what steps should I be taking but and then some of us are further afield with that so hopefully in this next hour so we'll we'll kind of touch base on all levels of understanding of the working memory system so we also will be doing like I mentioned a caregiver simulation we put two in the shoes of your your learner some possible indicators if you're going I have a feeling or one of my kids has it I might see this over here in one of my other kids um so let's look at some of those some strategies that work we do you know working memory is one of those things that we can always grow upon um so we want to make sure we have some strategies with that and then the last component building self-advocacy and self-awareness and that's something you know obviously it changes with how we introduce it to different ages and stages but we do want to grow on that every year because the goal is for them to develop some strategies that make them independent so without further Ado so let's look at working memory so working memory just a quick definition of working memory working memory falls under the umbrella of the executive functioning so some of you may have see executive dysfunction or executive function issues on your IEP or on your neuropsych eval it falls under that umbrella executive function or we commonly refer to it as EF is described as a conductor or a supervisor of our brain self-management system um the EF is not in itself a diagnosis but a dysfunction often considered as a comorbidity or a similarly present issue of several disorders um is often considered with our Learners with ADHD and autism um growth for executive function is most rapid in the preschool ages but it does continue to shape um on through adolescence now adolescence it has kind of grown in scope as are the way we uh have you know grown Through The Years in in need you know I always have heard you know as we develop it's it's based on um need that is how fast we go so 26 is where adolescence is now considered to kind of be fully developed but they do have some that go on into their early 30s so I know that's a wide range but that kind of gives you an idea that you know when our kiddos go off to college that executive function's not necessarily fully fully ready so looking at working memories specifically as it falls into this it's the ability to not only retain information or keep things in our head it's the ability to manipulate the information and apply it as we actively incorporate new information so it is considered a key element in our academic success um it allows us to do a minority of things one of them is to persist through challenges so when something gets really difficult and they get bogged down it allows them to kind of flexibly think and persist through um it allows you to follow directions especially multiple step directions so have you ever had you you give directions to your child and there's no chance that they didn't understand you they understood you but then they go off and they get caught in something else or only one of the three things gets finished that could be a working possible working memory issue um it it can focus on the ability to maintain Focus so it helps us to remember what is important so when you're in a classroom uh and you're saying okay Johnny I need you to stay focused well what are you focusing on instead of saying Johnny I need you to stay focused Johnny I need you to stay focused on me until I'm done talking or Johnny I need you to stay focused on me until I'm done writing on the board or I need you to stay focused on this assignment until you have finished one through five see how we've changed instruction from this vague I need you to stay focused to focusing on that importance and providing some structure for that um another thing with executive function can be seeing a task to completion so for the same reason that multiple step issue may be difficult for them if you have a very large project being able to break it down into small chunks or knowing how to attack each section while you're keeping in mind what the teacher asked you to do can be very difficult so that's where the strategies come in I did notice in some of the questions is you know why is my child getting frustrated I don't understand you know we're doing this why is my child getting [15:02 — Why working memory challenges cause frustration (the "changing the rules" analogy)] frustrated well think about when you have a memory system you're trying to play a game you're a board game or a game and sports game outside you have all this other stuff you're filtering out as far as you know people are interacting with you and you have a set of rules that you know you practice them you're confident in them and then people come in and they change those rules that's gonna be you can see where that could get frustrating and it's not that they're hyper focused on the rules as much as wait a minute I just learned these this is the rules and you changed them and so it it sends that kind of that brain into a tail spin and that another example of that is to learn a new skill like reading English language has a lot of rules and just when you memorize them they change them so that when it comes into decoding or writing actively you have to recall those rules as you're actively trying when you're writing you're active trying to think of okay this is what I wanted to say this is what the teacher wanted me to write oh how did I spell that word oh how do I decode that word that's all working memory you have to keep all of that going at the same time um so the other thing is group activity projects in the classroom you you have that student in the back going well how can they're very vocal outside they have a lot to say how come they're not participating in the project or how come they're off task goes back to those rules we have them all situated in but it's changing is that you know people are piling on different pieces to the puzzle and you're trying to actively remember what the teacher wanted you to do while you're you're shifting with perspectives with your team that can be very overwhelming um in going to have you ever had a child who you worked really hard to finish that homework assignment they get to the classroom and they don't turn it in and you're like wait a minute I know they finished it you have it in the folder you went through the process and the teacher's like I even asked for it well actively your that child is thinking of what am I supposed to be focusing on what am I supposed to have on my desk oh what's my friend doing over there what's my teacher saying you see how all those different inputs they're having to focus those out in which one is is going to be held in and which one is going to fall by the wayside you know I know I'm supposed to behave in my desk right now so that was a focus that was given to me that's going to take take precedence maybe overturning in that homework assignment so that that can be your working memory in action especially when you have that comorbidity of that ADHD where you know where that filtering out external stimuli is difficult um another thing is applying math and you know I have parents why do you have why do we have to learn math facts math facts are so difficult and for some of our Learners especially with some of the the um disabilities with them so we have to think of okay yes math facts allow us to build that that piece that you hold in your hand as you're learning along division but some children really have difficulty acquiring math access where your strategy comes in what can we do so that we're still staying up with a class and learning long division If the child doesn't have math facts and that's where why you see the accommodation of the charts the number of charts or the different things it's not to say that the child is not going to learn all the steps it's just that we don't want to slow them down these are bright kids that are going to be able to get a division but we can't hold them lab for something that we can create an accommodation for as so we're meeting those two sides you know that especially when you have the the 2E presentation you have a child that's exceptional you know they're very adapt to looking at oh why is this kid able to do it why is this kid able to do it so we want to be mindful of the strategies and giving them the tools that they need to succeed um hold on I gotta give my next thing here okay so [19:57 — How working memory differs from sensory, short-term, and long-term memory] looking at hold on I'm looking at the memory systems is like one of the questions someone had sent us is you know how is working memory different than the other memory systems so when the sensory memories you know it we heard it we we saw it we you know you know what sent you know if we're doing multi-sensory instruction it could even be we touched it what sensory system comes in it brings it into our memory that could be a couple seconds long well then we it goes to our short-term memory how long if I gave you a phone number how long are you going to hold that phone number without doing something before you're going to forget that phone number we have to be able to do something with it well that's where the working memory comes in so that's where you you actively are using that information am I going to write in my phone am I going to use my strategy to say it over myself several times my husband does the whole if every time he shakes a hand he says the name five times is how he remembers or it makes some kind of word play on it and he has this ability remember everyone's name based on that so that's where your your working memory is and that's where it goes from that holding it in short-term memory and tossing it into long-term retrieval it's like that car that takes you between the two it's that placeholder so going from oops going from that we look at [21:31 — Executive function components: cognitive flexibility and inhibitory control] you know how is this we talked about that umbrella system how is executive function the precursor to learning so you can see how it's really pulls them together working memory cognitive flexibility inhibitory control so cognitive flexibility is that like I said when we first started is okay you know how do we persist through challenges right well that means if you're going okay I have this problem-solving technique it's not working what do I do do I just keep plowing through and hope for that to change or do I switch gears in that and I think flexibly and try to think of a new new way of solution but that working memory ability to hold it and flexibly think kind of go together and then we go into our inhibitory control so our inhibitory control is can be how long do you hold it before you blurt out a question you're in a classroom okay I'm writing down I I'm you know all this I'm doing fine until I'm not all this stuff is coming in and then you're like wait a minute yeah and then you ask that question and the teacher's like can you raise your hand it's like but but but but yeah I need to process this is a lot of children will do that and when that happens it means that hey I need a moment for me to process before you continue I'm doing this to stop you but they're they're not always able to articulate so it's that that's one of those strategies where you're going okay I need I need you to slow down all right this is what I need from you and um that's the inhibitory control another inhibitory control is okay I can't interrupt I've been told I can't interrupt so I just fade off I zone out you know you have the child that's like I I have no idea how to put together all the things you just told me and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna come over here or I'm gonna I'm gonna you know do some way to get this out of my mind so I can have that moment to process another thing a child will do is they will do this all day manage manage [23:56 — Emotional dysregulation and the caregiver simulation exercise] manage they get in the car and they blow up how many have had where you got in the car and they completely disregulate and I mean some we had they could be held together all day and then they get in the car and you can hear them driving off the lot it's just it's because you're their safety you are one I I've had more parents call me at you know seven eight nine o'clock at night and go you know in tears why you know they they I've been in your classroom they're fine all day and is it because you're safe is the pot sitting in the slow boil in the back of the classroom and then they they boil over so that's where the strategies come in because you know it that emotional regulation is how someone emotionally responds in differing situations so it's not to say that they're being difficult for you or they're being they're being easy for them it's just to say that they know socially they can't hear and they know you're going to love them no matter what so that is you know how how long can you use hold it together until you can't um so that brings us to what's it going to be like for them well the best way for you to understand your kiddo is to put your feet in their shoes and I the simulation I still remember I didn't um autism certification we had to do in the state of California you have to be an Autism specialist if an education specialist so part of that training with Orange County Department of Ed is you had to do simulations and the simulations I still remember I've done it twice I did two different programs I did through a university and I did the Orange County Department of it I still remember my simulations of what it was like to be an autistic child in the classroom and because it was that profound so hopefully you get some feeling of what it was like for me because you know it's been 10 plus years now and I still can tell you that feeling so this is simulation will create the level of anxiety your child has when all of this is coming through so this is the part where you we need you to have your paper and pencil ready and we're gonna go so I am going to show you a slide so let's go ahead you will be shown cards for five seconds oops hold on yeah and you will try to remember all the symbols as best you can because you will be asked to answer some questions about them so this is going to simulate what your child is facing in the classroom for six hours a day get when stuff is all new given to them and they're asked to repeat and to do something with them actively are we ready all right let's do this okay so what I'm going to have you do is I'm going to have you write the symbols you saw in sequence okay did it do you use ask yourself did I use a strategy to help me so that's one of the things that as adults we have learned whether we're aware of it or not to compensate through the use of strategy and that's what we are seeking to do with students is to get their brains it's not that you can't it's that we maybe you can't yet we just need to find a strategy that works for you but we're not done look at how did you do foreign we all have strengths and weaknesses in our cognitive abilities we're going to do another one so when when I will tell you when we start the school year because of the long in the states we have a long period of absence over the summer correct we have what's called kind of a a period of review to kind of slowly ups and I'm sure you've all seen it where that oh you know what they're doing okay they they do you know it's that that calm before the storms August September they're kind of getting a little bit more difficult it's it's we're doing okay it goes up continually through December oh things are getting a little hard January February March it's the design of our school system in the classroom the child may be struggling a little bit with this amount of material given the right amount of time to process it they may be okay they may feel like you know what I'm gonna do okay I answered that okay then what happens is we have to we have to increase it so let's try another one okay knowing and using those strategies again are a great way for us to use our strengths to bolster our weaknesses [30:29 — Building compensatory strategies through self-discovery] families of are some of the questions that came through is how do I know you know if my cat is really exceptional how do I know if working memories really an issue but your child is starting to build is compensatory strategies and that's what we want we want them to feel like you know that full power of that ability they have and we guide them toward that in that compensatory strategy is I find my guess is if I lined you all up would be different for all of you so can you still write all of those those symbols down the other question is would you be able to do it backwards that's working memory what if I asked you to only do every third symbol I'm applying new rules you weren't expecting would you be able to take them and then categorize them this is what we asked students to do when they are learning their alphabet for the first time when we are asking them to decode information that they have just acquired we ask them to sing it forward we ask them to put all of the valves together all the consonants together all the spelling patterns together we're changing the rules and if you have the right supports in the classroom and we don't try to do it to I think sometimes we have gotten so much information that even the teachers I can hear they're they're talking really fast and it's like that's what we mean by chunking information we're all in a hurry our society is in a hurry we need to slow it down and give them a small piece of information at a time and that's when that beautiful brain takes over and processes it so if you have a child that's dysregulating some type I always say Behavior tells it serves a purpose sometimes that purpose is just to avoid why are we supporting them in the way that their brain works and it may be a brain totally different than our own so that is one of the things that we look at for working memory keep in mind is to eat learners there will be many things that they can do well and they're going to have many Curiosities and there's going to be many passions I know this because I have I it runs in my family um but learning will be about finding the right strategies for them so it's important to understand it's not that they can't learn if they can we just need to make sure it's like okay you're gonna go to to work you got to make sure you have all the right Tools in your tool chest to do the job same for them so one of the questions also that parents had asked was what how can a parent identify a possible working memory issues anxiety and self-doubt are high when a smart child pinned themselves against their peers so when we're guiding them towards strategies and we're looking at possibly what's going on we need to make sure that we're guiding them toward empowering them by sharing how their brain works um it I think sometimes it becomes very easy for us to kind of go oh wait a minute you know this is how I this is how it works for me but you know share that with them but it's it's about self-discovery and that's that individualization where we want so it empowering them is not just a series of cants more roadmapped to success so the one of the biggest complaints I've had from kids over the years I'm sure you've heard this why why do I need to do this kids want to know why am I working more than everyone else why am I doing tutoring why I'm smart if I'm so smart why is this happening these are questions and sometimes instead of trying to avoid it sometimes going through that that process of self-discovery and showing them you know how and not and why that how works for them is you know is going through that I notice you learn best when you do this what do you think helped when you did this you know getting them into that mind of you were successful here what do you what do you think you did differently getting that feedback making it a series of questions of going instead of the well we didn't do your homework why didn't you do your homework just how it's it becomes that why why do you find it's difficult right now what's what's challenging okay I see that's challenging what could we do so getting him into that problem-solving mode okay I I hear that I see you're frustrated I see that what do you think we should do what would be a good step it brings them into it makes them start articulating because that's the self-talk we want them to do um so that self reflection breeds Independence is a show don't tell and for instance that one of the questions was uh presenting in front of a group yeah ask what they're most concerned about if you're concerned they have working memories what what are you concerned about students will say I'm afraid I'm going to forget I'm I have them strategize okay what do you think we could do you know you you have cue cards cue cards I'm afraid I'm gonna drop them or I'm afraid I'm gonna do okay what can we do to not do that um we could practice we could do one card at a time we could have trigger words or trigger phrases and or even for our tickets some of my kids they had trigger images they drew a picture of what it what they wanted to say next for them that's how their brain worked um they avoid but what you're seeking to do is avoiding overloading the system so when we're looking at possibly identifying working memory issues you're you kind of go through this process of self-discovery with them so we look at okay what are some of the things that we notice they have trouble following through like we talked about trouble throwing through with directions even if they're understood conversations are difficult and can be forgotten have you ever had that point when you had that conversation with your son it's very clear in your memory and they're like yeah I don't remember that they're not they're they're not being obtuse they may have forgotten it or at least the importance of it um they often are believed to have focusing issues children with working memory issues often look like they have an intentional issue sometimes it's a comorbidity sometimes it's that zoning out and it's not truly an attention issue it's just that they're trying to say I need processing time you've given you've loaded up my my screen and I got the wheel of death going on in my brain you know how many times I I drives everyone crazy in my family because I keep so many tabs open that I freeze my computer regularly and you know and that's basically what we're doing to our kids we're giving them too much information and they're freezing so if you really want to be heard give them small Snippets at a time and as you're doing that you're building stamina that building of that stamina is what's going to get them to be able to do more and more and more and if they have high levels anxiety which kind of often comes with it that building of that stuff every time they have an a comfortable experience they're gonna they're gonna trust and reach a little bit more and that's what our goal is as Educators and as parents and caregivers is to build that stamina in a in a comforting environment and that's going to help you right now if they're getting easily frustrated or tired with mental tasks that's because they're telling you I don't know how to organize this in my brain so that all comes together and that's what working memories it's all coming together but if they're not organizing it that's where you have okay working memory is tipped what else an executive function is tipped is that organization and planning and self-monitoring are all of those tipped that's where you have to give them you have to see that link is yes it's showing up and really bogging down the working memory system but what are we doing over here to make sure that this is is is as fluid as possible so if you're looking at you know okay my child has a very limited working memory system make sure everything else in the executive function is working in in cohesion as well [41:15 — Supporting writing, reading, and organizational challenges] um and when we look at the writing is arduous and often avoided despite great ideas give them the supports they are having trouble what in every you know that's why we say graphic organizers that's why we say give them a the vocabulary wall give them you know there's certain vocabulary words or academic words that are supposed to be in that give them that section give them you know help them go through these processes to to create some some success some of our children use templates the templates are I always say it's kind of like an educational Mad Libs but it isn't you know education that fluidity of writing sometimes starts by you can looking at Mentor texts here is what it looks like successfully here we're going to take out a see this is crafted under a structure some kids just intuitively understand that structure some actually physically need to see that structure build it out has however you need it to allow that fluidity give them the academic language okay which of these these terms if we're doing a transition word that's an addition word you know furthermore in addition you want to it's okay to give them those okay which one works best and what you're trying to say it gives them agency and freedom and Independence so that they can become and do it on their own versus US constantly going have you done this have you done this and how many has ever gotten into that Loop of but have you done this I that's you know Mom 101 right um remembering what is red that's remember you're decoding your reading was fluency you have all these different ex expectancies you have words wind wind oh my gosh they look the same but you have to look at it in context to know which one it means is being said so there has to be stop gaps when you're reading that's why we came up with annotation how do we annotate in a way that is useful for this type of learner you know for some of my kids it was creating a template where they put in certain things for some of my kids it was drawing a picture at the end of every paragraph could I draw a good picture yep okay then I'm ready to go could I not no okay get to the end of the chapter could I write a summary could I hit all the W's in there you know so those stop gaps foreign okay so and some of the other questions that um we had looked at was um for school inability to remember to write down homework assignments for each class was one of the what what do I what do I do with that these kids for Our Generation it was write down your assignment notebook and some kids that still works well but these kids were born and spiritually where you're at they look at us they're like I you know what I already have trouble writing I don't want to write one more thing we live in a digital age there are a lot of apps on the phones to have or on their laptops or on the things to help them remember especially if they're in middle school and high school a lot of these schools have one-to-one iPads or one-to-one laptops and once we moved into some of those those helped too for especially when if they're writing all this stuff or getting their homework assignments out and if they forget to turn things in if they have a an Apple watch that has a reminder okay to start a class when that thing buzzes that means it's time for me to turn in homework and you you have it set to the reminders at the start of each class um digital reminders if you don't if uh if you're not allowed an Apple watch some schools don't allow it visual triggers sticky notes I you know at this start of every notebook they open it up there's a sticky note to remind them when they saw the stick you know it was a visual trigger so you would think the homework is but sometimes it's not so if they open up to certain things create a visual trigger and that's one of those things that you want the child to come up with what their visual trigger is be it the Apple watch be it the Post-it note be it whatever it is that you want is when they're Middle School and High School it becomes you're kind of a guider but you're not a teller um directions are given at home immediately does something different does that happen you're you're giving a direction it neatly kind of veers off um Clear Directions with steps I had one student that we literally had to get a dry erase marker and write them one two three onto their mirror in the morning every morning that that kid had to mentally go through the steps and if there was anything changing in the day that had to okay did you put it on your mirror yes okay that was that was how it worked for him some kids do visual schedules some kids have something on their their you know iPhone it changes um but just keep in mind too many tasks will create a decision paralysis so that's the the takeaway if you have too much they'll zone out and they'll they'll freeze [47:42 — Practical strategies: lists, chunking, teaching-back, and memorization] okay so let's look at strategies my child can incorporate in accessing the strengths and now we always say making lists the thing about coaching them with anything to do with executive function I keep going back to is you have to train them these are kids that this is struggled for them you have to practice making lists so okay mom's going going to go to the store we're gonna make a list get a piece of paper and pencil okay what is something you see that we need let's open the fridge what do you like to have in the morning I like to have cereal what do you need for your cereal well I need cereal okay let's go to our look for cereal oh it looks like we need that where should we put that should put that on our list you see how we're practicing making lists in small form and then slowly building that stamina up to to generate more instead of when they go okay I have to do this you're going to go back and you're going to practice all kinds of different lists and anything that requires behavior modification you need to do it for for at least two weeks straight you don't want to just do one list okay we're ready to go go right make a list you're going to practice list making in a million different ways and that goes with anything you incorporate um making connections to new things I have um one student that I had he was brilliant and it's like the kid was a walking map in second grade I mean it was amazing but he had a very poor working memory so what he did is he taught the teacher your greatest thing the process of discussing something is is going to be a powerful tool so okay I'm going to give you I need you to do this for me can you tell me what I need you to do I need you to do that you need me to do this okay what does that look like or okay you here is the math problem can you tell me what how did your teacher show you and if they're having struggling in you or they're struggling with it and you have to pull up a YouTube break it down into small steps okay what did he do there why do you think he did that do you see how we're we're breaking it into steps and he's having to teach you why everything's happening and that process is going to be stronger there's no stronger process than you teaching someone else um breaking things down into small steps you're going to teach them how to do that and you're like what you know I mean how many times have you go okay you're gonna do this we're the managers parents are managers of everything but we're going to teach them how to break something down so you get the project it comes home all right let's get the calendar out let's get out the the list what are we going to do okay we need to it looks like you have these different tasks okay let's look at the first one just the first one we need to create a cover page okay what do you think that means what does that look like what do we need for a cover page say this is a little person so you need to draw something or what okay how long do you think that's going to take you see how we're breaking things down because that's going to be a strategy that that child is going to use all the way through University is breaking large tasks down into usable trunks we take it from building strategy from Little People to Middle School okay we got to study for this test how are we going to break it down you know you have to study for it for you know this whole semester here's a unit test or here's a chapter test or here's what are we going to need to see everything is a breakdown process and they're not intuitively going to do that um another thing is memorization working memory right how are we gonna what are some of the things that we can do as far as acronyms we have one of our Specialists it's all about the acronyms mnemonics how are we going to like my husband with this say that the name five times and then make a word play on it that helps and remember those names he goes through a room full of of people who met 15 people within the span of 30 minutes and he can tell you everyone's name those are playing that's the strategy that works for him he's the king of bliss um mental math build stamina it seems counterintuitive they're already struggling with it it doesn't have to be up here start small and build it up um word associations draw a visual representation of the task or word there is a reason why we have that that personally doesn't work with me but that for some students it works so that's why we look at word associations in different ways what works for that child you know some of my kids visual representations they didn't write anything down they just threw a picture and you asked him what it meant and how it connected they understood they knew how to build that bridge um practice doing two to three steps for on a sticky note I had one child that had to have sticky notes in the center in the corner of his desk he'd take a sticky note out and every time we gave steps he created his little little list how to make steps in the end across them off and we practiced that it's not like it just happened we practiced it and practiced it and practiced it um and after reading look at the notes that you wrote and then summarize based on the notes I'm sure it sounds very familiar Cornell notes right that's what we do um another one is for children with working memory have trouble with sequencing so they're reading a story and they can tell you bits and pieces of the story but it might not be in sequence and where that comes up is just reading comprehension it can be come up in history it can come up in different different aspects but build a story with them so you're you you say a story every night okay and you build on it and I remember my husband did this with one of my little ones and he had built it was every time there was a cat that crashed through the wall for whatever reason made him giggle but it made him come back for more and he was waiting for the cat to crash through the wind and he they would tell the story and it was it was the same story built over and he basically taught him through stamina to build up a longer longer retail um so looking at the oops I went crazy um building up that stamina is going to be important for for them okay [55:45 — Talking with teachers and building self-advocacy] now talking with the teacher talking with a teacher for our middle school and high school when they start looking they come in they got a class behind them and it's difficult for them I I'm not gonna lie so it's not that they don't want the services or the accommodations they do want those that help they just need some help on in making that happen so one of the things that we encourage is showing the child how to send an email to the teacher if they if you instead of like they missed a series of assignments what should we do help them problem solve okay I noticed I can see that you're missing um this assignments you know instead of going into the okay you didn't do this why didn't you do it's going to solve how are you going to solve that let them know that um it's okay to let the the teachers know ahead of time send them a note at the beginning of semester we're working on our child's self-advocacy when this happens I'm gonna send them to you just so you know this is how this is going to play out and usually the teachers are really well welcome that um review the accommodations with the child and what that means for them not just that they have them but what it can do for them it goes back to that strategy um and as they get more Adept at it I know children are invited to IEPs prepare them for it see we're going to go over your strategies here what do you find here's the ones you've had before which ones did you find most helpful what do you feel let's what do you feel still is an issue okay let's problem solve what do you think we could do to make that more attainable for you see it becomes more about independence and bringing them into the conversation they're more Adept to do something when they're part of that conversation as an active participant not just physically there does that make sense um now with guidance you know that practice is but even with the email is going to can take time it's not like it's honest and can you're gonna sit there okay we're gonna we're gonna it's time to write our teacher okay let's go through the process of an email what goes in the subject line what are we asking them for okay did you this is this is the subject did we respectfully ask a question what do you want to happen here you know and if your child has been given extra time and they have a zero that extra time is something that's allotted to them so it you can say I've you know we have finished this we respectfully ask for you to grade it or we've re-looked at this you know those are some of the things that is going to to follow them is to go through high school and into University we want to establish those patterns um and then going back to just like we did with the homework brainstorm reminders how you're going to remember to do this you know make them part of that discussion um [59:22 — Core advice for caregivers: guide, don't fix] oops so someone had asked me this what was one piece of advice for caregivers whose children's face these challenges and I actually took this back to my team because it was one of those things that I wanted to see what everyone you know stand with and the basic was kind of the Nuance of what we just discussed is don't jump in and try to fix it and that's going to be so hard because if we jump in and try to fix it you take away the independence and they will take back seat to their education instead find the help them find strategies through self-discovery you know go through and be willing to practice with them be willing to okay this is the this is the problem I'm having okay let's discuss what are possible ways obviously you're going to have in the back your brain some of the things that you're going to guide them toward but you still want them to be part of that discussion you don't want to just go okay no I need you to do this now I need you to do this because that's when you're especially when they hit high school they're going to resist um they will and know that they will make mistakes we all make mistakes they're gonna make these mistakes often and in fact this came up in our team meeting we're in the middle of Colorado right now in a team meeting and it went around our table fail is the first attempt in learning it is if we look at the scientific process you create a hypothesis and you you have to test it we test and test and test so we if we want them to get into the thing the just into that mode of you know what yes I feel but I'm gonna persevere yes I may have failed but I'm going to use that as a catalyst to learn and next time I study I'm going to study better that in fact one of our training mods we do boot camps for executive function and one of the things is it's we do case studies with the kids and it was like okay this we had two kids both of them had very fixed mindsets one thought I am the best gosh darn math student there is and one thought I am never gonna pass math no matter what I did what was different they both did did um equitably on the first test once and then the second one they both kind of bombed and what happened how did they change that pattern well one had learned through coaching that okay you know what I did not do well in this but I know that I did I this maybe this studying wasn't work what can I do I can see my teacher okay I can study with this person who's who seems to understand it well okay I can practice with my mom you know went through all the things whereas the other one said you know what I am so good at math I'm just I'm glued to the next chapter I don't need to redo everyone did bad if I did bad everyone did bad you know then you and then you could see the two results the the kid that had originally been you know not real good at math had taken off and the one that had gotten fixed and said you know what it so it's about building that stamina for them um but it's going to take lots of practice to get it right offer more suggestions that but questions then Immediate Solutions you don't want to be the solution for them you want to be the Comfort way to to guide but not to so to make that solution um and then ask them what could help what you could do to help and offer two to three strategies if they really get stuck so you see it still they still have to make a choice and they still have to create the independence so that's what I had I understand we have [1:03:44 — Q&A: age-related changes, educator conversations, and building independence] some questions so we will stop this share and I'll look at a lot of faces

Host: thanks Taya we actually got a lot of questions in the chat um so one of the ones that several people said was that their child had a good working memory score in their IQ test but they're still noticing all these challenges that you're um that you're mentioning

Taya: okay um then I go back to um the comorbidity of the executive function and the reason being is that because of the intertwining what happens is if there's dysfunction in some of the other areas is they rely on that strength of the the working memory and it bogs down like the windows the too many windows opened up so for instance I've had children that have robust working memories but they were really had poor strategy as far as organization and planning and self-monitoring and because that they had to hold more in the working memory system to compensate for those those weaknesses so by by going back and strengthening and bolstering some of those then they were freeing up that that working memory system

Host: that makes a lot of sense I wanted to ask actually a question that came in I think through several of the folks um questions is really could you just like give kind of like a a snapshot of like you know you had that great slide that had different ways that if you have a working memory challenge it might Express itself but how do you see it change through time like if you walk like from having a six-year-old with working memory issues then to a middle school or then to a high schooler like does it does it change does it look different or really are you seeing the same things

Taya: that is a great question keep in mind that it's like with anything you know our cognitive profiles we are learning there's a lot more cognitive flexibility there's a lot more neuroplasticity than we we once believed um so that's why we say by making the kids from from the young age obviously making it age appropriate we want to we want to build that stamina we want to make them aware of the different strategies so that like for instance the um over compensating with the using the working memory for the other ones that were just um dysfunctional but by using and creating strategies that work for them it will look different because they will be able to persevere it won't be as apparent now it's not going to go away because we all have innate strengths and weaknesses in all of our cognitive profiles we are just basically using Arch profiles for our our advantage if that makes sense um and that's you you have that beautiful blessing of the 2E and that means you have a lot to pull on as far as is bolstering that weakness of the working memory system so I what I would suggest is just going in and and make them part of that process and truthfully when you have a very highly intelligent child making them by that part of that process I have two at home and um you know whenever I try to to Mommy them it's it doesn't work they they they want to have some agency so the the sooner you bring that up it will start showing looking a little bit different absolutely

Host: foreign too like how then do you how then do you or your child talk about working memory challenges with educators um and also understand like Educators feel a lot of pressure to cover a lot of content standards they they you know how how do you both help Educators come on board with what the challenges are but also you know the understanding of the challenges the educator also faces in in terms of what you know there's that is a

Taya: great and I and I as an educator myself I highly respect that comment because um they do have a lot on their plate they have a lot in the plate before the pandemic now it's just wow um sometimes it can be as simple as I had one parent and this is I'm going to tell you some of the things that I remember wrote a note to me and it was it was just it it was the loveliest little note of let me introduce you to my beautiful child and this is how um my child learns best this is if you haven't you know this is this is this is a little article I'd love for you if you had a moment to read I if you haven't I'm gonna give you a week and if you don't mind I'm going to contact you in case you have any questions and you know what I really appreciated that I really did and well not just because you put a little chocolate cookie on it although I did remember that quite well too um but you know keep in mind that we do go into education because we do want these children to succeed and we are human beings and the and it sometimes it's just it's not that we don't want to it's just if you come into it with the like the respect you just mentioned I think it's going to be well received um that was one way I knew um as far as when they get to middle school high school I am a big proponent of the child writing that letter um it could be in an email it could be in however that child wants to do let me introduce you to me and how I learn best and you know this in writing that letter I would make it a whole project if you know what do you want them to know how do you because it can be a real catharsis for them and maybe as far as lowering the anxiety or lowering um you know expectations of you know they're not going to know it just it it gives them that that agency um so that's one thing I do as far as conveying that um another thing is going back to the littles is I always brought my littles to the conference and we would practice and I would say Okay um we had this but I'm gonna bring my child in here for three minutes and I he has something he would like to say to you and we would practice this like I'd bring him in cold and they would say you know this is this is what I want to know about me or this is you know you know something in any time we build that as part of them as they go up they do pick it up

Host: that's awesome so one person said that her daughter has has a very good ability to memorize but she has working memory and um EF challenges is there any way you can think of to use her strength and memorization to be used as an accommodation she can't seem to get through two to three step directions and she's 12.

Taya: um that would be a a in in that does happen so that would be where we would strategize the process if and I I can say this for myself I have to write it down I don't necessarily have to read it again I have to write it down and you know I it was one of those things as I went through my own journey and I've you know gone through a few years of school um and I I is and that's what I would create with that child is okay you have a beautiful memory system but if something's coming in you have to combine that with new information and that's the working memory so they have that long-term retrieval but their short-term memory might not be as strong so that's where they would need to write it down so that they have something okay the memories in here what I need is right here on the paper and then I can combine them without over overworking my working memory

Host: I learned a new thing tonight about how the different memories work together I love it um any tips for getting teens to be willing to use their accommodations um it seems like you need accommodations to address working memory challenges um have you seen anything work to help kids embrace the purpose of the accommodations

Taya: I really go back to kind of what we had um discussed in this is that children especially when they get into teens developmentally they're they're tuned fine-tuned to separate from us so um as far as is getting them to to self-advocate they have to be part of that decision making process they have to be part of the creation of those accommodations the part of the execution of those companies the more agency they have over it the better chance you're going to get them to do them but if you go okay we were in this team over here while you were at school one day here's your list of accommodations they say you really need you're not going to get a team to listen so that's the part where you know I you would sit down and go and if it's already happened I mean obviously it's already happened you can go okay you know we're going to sit down here and I want you let's look at what we got here why do you think we have this where do you think you could use this let's focus on the ones I want you to highlight the ones you think you might need okay it's so if they're having trouble turning stuff in it be there with okay let's look at the list here which one of these might have helped you in that situation

Host: I like the self involving them in everything I think that's a great strategy well we want like keep in mind this is they're with us for how many years and then they go off into life that working memory is always going to be there we don't want to inhibit these are brilliant children we don't want to inhibit them from meeting their goals for meeting they're going to have their own hopes and dreams and wishes and you know we don't want anything that's going to limit that so our goal is to help them figure out okay how are you going to get to that dream let's figure that out and a question just popped into the chat what they think is very apropos which is for children in elementary school who are just starting to learn about their needs so they're not quite able to self-advocate yet what are some strategies to help them see that this is a challenge they're having in the moment and then realize they need to put a strategy into action

Taya: that's a great question it's keeping mine as they're little we we do start executive function and with little ones and sometimes executive function games are about building stamina and it's just about it can be we have cognitive motor exercises I don't know if you ever remember doing Rhythm you know how you you tapped on the table and you snapped and stuff that was actually a game to build higher level cognitive focus and and other things so um teaching them what those mean answering them why even if they don't necessarily fully conceptualize starting to answer those why questions really help them start filling in the gaps I remember my kid up until about 10. now I kind of he's 17 now so I kind of miss it it was it was always why does that happen well why is this I mean they are just magpies of the world looking at how the world fits into place your job is to slowly fill that in under help them understand the whys um and it might it might be I noticed you're having a little trouble with decoding this is going to help you with the coding let's let's practice this and see how this helps you and then have that what do you think that did do you notice any difference you know giving them that you know giving them feedback and then also listening that feedback pulls them in and then you become a cohort in their education and one thing I've done is I've told my kids teachers in elementary school please if they ask you for something give them something even if you they can't you can't give them exactly they said I need a 20 minute break right now give them a two minute break give them something because then you're rewarding that they self-advocated they'll do it again

Host: oh gosh yes thank you I love that thank you

Taya: they might not be able to they might not be able to to fully articulate it goes back to behavior gives it serves a purpose and you're starting to slowly reward the behavior the positive feedback

Host: well I think what we find too is there's a lot of emphasis in schools about self-advocacy but there's no structure for teaching it there's not a scaffolding system right like and there's not a curriculum that teaches self-advocacy and our education we're working on it our Educators that don't get trained in how to support self-advocacy or what it might look like at different ages and stages or how that might be different for our neurodivergent child right or someone with social communication um challenges or all these different things you know and so that's why I always love yael's advice because it it really says to the teacher like you can be part of helping this child learn self-advocacy it doesn't mean you have to give them everything they want you know but you be part of the process of helping them along the way to know that this is a positive experience that talking to your teacher is not scary

Taya: no no and they said they want to yeah how you respond to them at home even if you even if they're they look like they're busy doing something else they they want to see how your response is to the teacher

Host: and um I have to pull on that with some one of the things that you had said is um you know how we talk about the feedback you had mentioned kind of feedback for the teacher looping back your earlier question

Taya: that is is a beautiful way to to feed give the teacher feedback as far as is the you know self-advocacy because you're right it's but we're not trained we you know there's one of those things that I had to go and get supplemental training my team had to go and get supplemental training um so it's one of those things we're seeking through this and through our own our own program here to push out to the schools and to push out to to Educators in a way that is is viable that we can we can pull all these groups together because I think parents you no one knows their child more than you do and by creating that Circle of of understanding we can't it's there's nothing more powerful for that child

Host: what I would definitely like to um to acknowledge because one if I think one of my kids teachers is on on here tonight that the high school she goes to actually does a really good job with us it's the only School I've seen that really does like they have a whole plan 9th through 12th grade what it's what will self-advocacy look like at each grade how will we support it how will we get them to be independent in that by the time they're in 11th late 11th 12th grader and it's just beautiful

Taya: that is beautiful

Host: it is we did have um another question that came in about um we've had a couple specific questions which I think are really pertinent I don't want to lose them and we're going to run out of time but in high school if you can't remember steps which you also can't take notes fast enough so when working so like there are a couple of specific scenarios that I think I'd like to pose before we wrap up for tonight so like one of these is like note-taking that is a really hard thing for someone with working memory and other executive function challenges to do am I looking at the board am I listening am I writing and then am I remembering what right like so I don't know what strategies you might have around that and then I have two other topics after you've answered that so it's kind of like speed strategies maybe strategy

Taya: um well that goes into the accommodation of the note taking where they have the note outline from the teachers um so it would go into okay where you would strategize with the student I notice you're happy you're you're not taking notes why do you why are you well I feel like I should listen because I can't I can't write down fast enough um so that could be where the teacher uh gives to the outline or gives keywords or anchor words on the board um for the child to to start an outline for themselves and then they can you know they they know what q words to start grabbing

Host: I think that that's actually been really helpful for my daughter who doesn't have for other other things too she doesn't have working memory issues but but she um has uh um processing uh auditory processing challenges which make it very difficult so these these Solutions are great for for a number of things not just for some memory and I think yeah one of the other questions then the next speed round topic was around social settings so maybe there's a child who really does well on these working memory tests in terms of cognitive skills but they really have the challenge and social situations and interactions do you see that like what's that all about and what are some strategies for that

Taya: well there's a couple different reasons why um you know even if the if the working memory isn't a significant area of weakness where if we look at the whole cognitive profile for instance someone that has auditory processing um you put them in a social situation where you get multiple people talking at once and let's face it the classroom is a big social situation you know you you've got people switching outside the hallways you got the gardener outside you get you got deaths and stuff move their filter your brain is filtering all of that out and so there is you know what is the focus so a main thing is um is what is the agenda in it I had a student that I we had taught him to to come in what is my what is my agenda per day or what is my essential question for today or what is you know it's basically what is the the cue um it allows them to put down now going into the social situation as far as like a group with the kids is um it when they're trying to take in everyone's conversation that will be more difficult than if they focus in on one so that's that's the cueing um any time where they have to filter multiple things is going to bring drain that that ability to attend

Host: I think I'm thinking about this and this might be more of a long-term memory thing um which is the Memory Palace strategy because I know like one of the things that can be hard for these kids could be right remembering people's names like you you could like how do I keep these names in my in my memory and draw upon them and use them and that is very challenging for a lot of a lot of kids and so there's that concept of the Memory Palace where like you might like think of that name and attach a color to it or attach um you know an animal to it or something beyond the monomic device or Beyond right like it's just another strategy that I don't know but but is that more long-term memory or does that work

Taya: yeah that is a beautiful term it's a beautiful like it's the same thing like I said with my husband does he struggles with it so he has to say it five times and then he Rhymes it with something or Rhymes it with something that he or puts it with some memory system that he he knows so you're right it goes beyond um just a simple device it's just basically he knows he has to say it at least five times and he has to to attach it to something and that's basically using you know putting it on a memory hook

Host: well if you're talking about your husband too that makes me think a lot about how sharing our own strategies like for these things with our kids like making that visible right making our own strategies verbal and visible to our children because um you can have working memory challenges or not and you still will have some things that hang you up so I think just being able to share this is why I make a list this is what I like your husband sharing these are the five ways I remember someone's name like then that normalizes it and also um makes it less mysterious

Taya: so exactly I love that that is a beautiful way of putting it is is basically showing your own vulnerabilities in any time we want children to be vulnerable with us but we first have to be vulnerable to them in some capacity

Host: yeah yeah so the last question I think we're going to get in is another topical one like this was around weak verbal working memory so we talked about social you know we talked about some of these other weaknesses but what if it's verbal working memory does that mean it's hard for them to follow along when a teacher is teaching only new material orally like is that then like something you would see orally and especially especially challenging maybe if it's a child who's dyslexic because verbal memory can also be difficult

Taya: yeah verbal memory can be is is you're basically you're you know we have the the visual and the verbal memory of the think of your words versus your images so you know yes it could absolutely be under the guise it dyslexic but it's not in all-encompassing thing so when we look at um verbal memory you that's remember I mentioned okay we might have to look at creating a visual cue to assist us with that so basically it goes down to using those strengths to bolster those weaknesses so um it used to be okay we're just going to keep tacking those weaknesses but it isn't because the child does have strengths we just need to make sure and that also is going to empower them because they like no I'm good here I'm going to use this to push this up it's kind of like me with writing stuff down

Host: but what might that look like for a middle or high school student right like when it's it's things have gotten more complicated the work is more complicated the concepts are are trickier

Taya: um so I had for for one of my kids we had to it for instance we had a story and again that's sequential was difficult so he took a piece of um register tape and he drew images out in sequence you know basically in then they were out of order so we had to clip them and then okay let's look at putting them in to order so it you know in that registered tape could be as he's going you know that annotated notes could be through um with Post-it notes and you have to it goes back to teaching them to break it down and then build it back up so if they're have struggling with something that is is that larger scale especially with the depth and complexity we have to teach them to break it down and um by us breaking it down that's great but then they go to the next class and maybe that teacher doesn't do it so we want we want them to carry things through as we go

Host: yeah that's awesome and I would say like that's a key thing I'm taking away from what you've talked about tonight a couple key things are really like helping them learn how to break things down helping them learn to do that and then helping them like really really focusing on the why of things and really helping them see the why of things and talking to their teachers and letting them be part of the solution and I love how you said um bringing in your stories your whys because that connects you to the child

Taya: yeah it sounds like also for me I took away that although working memory may not improve you learn these strategies and so ultimately you'll be in a situation where it appears to be improved because you've found compensatory strategies

Host: thank you so much

Taya: no problem I learned a lot um I'm sure audience did as well and we really appreciate you joining us tonight

Host: thank you everyone who joined um and don't forget that you can go to um REEL uh we can put taya's information and REEL's information we're getting a lot of thank yous it was very thought-provoking and things like that in the chat um and so you can visit um learnfully to get um services like the things that Taya has discovered you know talking about she can help teach your child or her staff can help teach your child these kind of strategies and you can come to REEL for more events more information more um things uh handouts you can give your teachers about what it means to have a two-week child and we even have a um a pre-recorded session about how to create one of those intro to my child letters at the beginning of the year so thank you everyone so much

Taya: thank you