Video: November 2e Parent Support Group: Self Awareness
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On November 13, REEL hosted the 2e Parent Support Group on Self Awareness, led by Teresa Nair and Yael Valek. The event featured guest speaker Dr. Danica Maddox, an educational psychologist and 2e parent coach. The discussion centered on practical ways to recognize and nurture self-awareness and self-advocacy in twice-exceptional children.
Teresa opened the event by introducing REEL's mission to help 2e students thrive through parent and educator support. She explained the asynchronous development of 2e individuals, highlighting both their unique strengths and the complex challenges they face in traditional environments. She also shared upcoming resources and events for the REEL community.
Dr. Maddox then explored self-advocacy through the lens of the neurodiversity paradigm. She emphasized the importance of trusting a child's feedback and normalizing their fluctuating capacity, often using the "spoon theory" metaphor. By validating their experiences and offering accommodations at home, parents can help their kids build the self-worth needed to ask for help and confidently navigate challenges.
The session concluded with a Q&A segment covering how to approach conversations with kids who are hesitant to discuss their neurodivergence, how to balance accommodations with daily expectations, and strategies for validating intense emotions. Dr. Maddox encouraged parents to model self-advocacy as an ongoing learning process rather than focusing solely on perfect outcomes.
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**Teresa Nair:** So I think I'll go ahead and get started. I don't know, Yael, if you'd like to start the recording either way. There we go, okay. Welcome, everybody. My name is Teresa Nair. I'm here tonight with Yael Valek, who is the co-founder of REEL, and Rosa Maria, who's going to be doing Spanish language interpretation for us. So feel free to join her in the Spanish language. usually found under the, it looks like a globe icon. Sometimes it's under the more button, the three buttons, you'll find the globe icon. That's Rosamaria and she can do Spanish translations for us. So these are our monthly support groups. We're here every month, and every other month we have speakers, guest speakers come and join us on topics that are important, that apply to the twice-Exceptional neurodivergent community, and that's tonight's um, event is going to be our guest speaker. So a little bit though about who REEL is in case you're new to this venue tonight. Welcome. REEL ensures that neurodivergent and twice exceptional students thrive. And we do this in what I call two pillars. We educate the educators. And we work with parents. So Yael and I focus on the parent side. We organize and write and disseminate and gather amazing speakers and information and we share it with the families, whether it's through support groups like tonight or, um, To facilitate small groups, things like that. The other pillar is for educators. We work on making sure that the education community in many different ways has what they need to make sure that our children thrive in the classroom and at school. So what is twice exceptional? You'll probably hear us say this many times tonight, and we'll give a couple different looks at what it might be, and Danika might go into it a little bit too, but we usually use Dr. Susan Baum's kind of description of what it is. It's these distinguishing So we think about things like strengths and abilities in one or more potential areas. This could be music, this could be a robust vocabulary that can, you know, debate with you under the table by the age of six. And these are a whole lot of amazing highs. and unique strengths that our kids have. And then we also have complex challenges that happen usually in more traditional environments, like classrooms or even traditional parenting techniques. When we have kiddos with diagnoses such as ADHD or autism, even some The learning disabilities out there too. Things that make traditional learning classrooms difficult and challenging. And so that makes a twice exceptional child. Those two E individuals have distinguishing traits and complex challenges, all at the same time. And these strengths and challenges require support, which is different from one or other of the exceptionalities. We get them both. And so we're here to talk about that and explore that. I'd like to also show it on this kind of age-based expectation. A lot of people relate to this graph. Because we've heard about age-based expectations. It could be with swim classes, it could be in the classroom. A lot of these things. And then we sometimes look at the profiles of our kiddos, and you'll see this asynchronous develop. kind of jagged profile of areas of strength and then other areas that may be lagging or need more support or accommodations in place. So we're looking to figure out how to help the whole child. REEL does this in many different ways. Make sure to check out our website, which is reel2e.org. We've got a wonderful little short video, I think it's under… maybe it's between three to four minutes, on our front page right there on the right hand side. What is trice exceptionality? This is something you can give to the grandparents for Christmas if you want. So there's all kinds of ways to use this little video, and a lot of the information on there. Like I said, for parents and educators all the way through. Good stuff on there, check us out there. And we also offer a lot of things in our community and in our services. And you'll see that the majority of what we offer is free. Everything from online support groups. Yael will be populating the chat with a whole bunch of links. And we can also put these out in the email or the newsletters that go out. So this is Expert Speaker Series, online resources, articles. printouts, lots of things. I also run facilitated small group sessions and one-on-one consultations, which are part of our services. If you're interested in purchasing a one-on-one consultation, we do those too. So join us for all these free events. And this is kind of what it looks like. This was what we did this fall as far as just our free events. So you'll see we had a lot of great things that happened this fall. We're winding it up with tonight being our last event, but you can find all of our past events. conclude this chat tonight with Danika over at reel2e.org/past-events. And of course, keep an eye out for spring. We are just very close to announcing the whole spring lineup, which is going to be amazing. And spoiler alert, we're bringing Danika back in person. So keep that in mind as we move forward for spring. A lot of great things happening. Both Andershell Schultz. And I will now take a moment to introduce Dr. Danika Maddocks. Let's see. Danika is an educational psychologist, researcher, and gifted 2E parent coach with over 15 years of experience supporting gifted and twice exceptional Children, teens, and families. She holds a PhD in educational psychology from the University of Texas at Austin and has published research on twice exceptionality, including works in Gifted Child Quarterly. Through her work at the Gifted Learning Lab, Danika combines research, professional expertise, and her own lived experience as an autistic adult who helps families better understand their children and find approaches to foster connection and collaboration. So, at REEL, we always enjoy having Danika with us. As you can see, we're very aligned on many things. So tonight, she will share with you practices and practical ways to recognize and nurture self-awareness. **Danika Maddocks:** Yeah. **Teresa Nair:** And self-advocacy. So welcome, Danika. Thanks for being here. I'm going to go ahead and stop sharing my slides so I can hand it over to you. Welcome. **Danika Maddocks:** Okay. I was like, oh, that's me, big. Let me share my slides. Thank you so much. I'm really excited to talk about this tonight. Okay, so yes, we'll be talking about supporting self-awareness and self-advocacy. And you already kind of did an intro. The only thing I'll say is, like, I really think of a lot of my work these days, especially with the gifted Learning Lab, of like helping parents who have more intense or sensitive gifted into kids or teens. feel a sense of, like, permission and confidence, letting go of a lot of standard parenting pressures and standard ways of doing things, because a lot of times those aren't a great fit and might make life harder or more stressful, and to really feel confident building a life that really works for you and for your kid. So I'm excited about this topic because I love this topic and I think about it a lot and talk about it in coaching, but I've never tried to organize my thoughts into a talk before. So I was like, oh, there's so much we could talk about. So we're going to do 30 minutes of it tonight. I might even like put together a resource for this in the future because I was like, there's so much rich stuff to explore, but I'm really excited to share some ideas with you tonight. And I like to start my talks with this just like quick intro of how I approach this talk and just a brief disclaimer. My goal in what I chose to put into this talk is that I really hope something in here is going to help you understand some aspect of your kid more clearly and feel validated in your experience, because a lot of us can feel like no one really understands what it's like raising a Tui kid. I think that the big principles are gonna apply to most gifted and 2E kids and families, but at the same time, like, you know, everyone is different, every kid and family is different, and even if the big principles all apply, there's… infinite ways to like actually put that into use in your family or what's gonna be helpful can be really personal to your kid. So I hope that some of the big ideas are gonna resonate, and that you can take away whatever big ideas or practical strategies feel like they might be helpful, and then if there are parts that don't feel helpful, you're not sure how you would use them, just feel free to like leave that part. If you just get a few things that you can try at home, that's awesome. A disclaimer is that even though I do parent coaching, this isn't coaching, you know, even when I'm answering questions, every situation is just so complex, so it, you know, we really have to, like, get into the details in order to give coaching feedback, but I am happy to answer questions at the end. And give you initial feedback if that's helpful. Okay. Before we get started, I want to give you a minute, if you have something with you, if you're joining live and you're able to jot down some ideas right now, or if you're watching on the recording, you can even pause if you want more time for this. But I'd like you to just, you know, either think through or jot down a few things about this topic before we jump into it. I think that will help you, like, you know, kind of figure out some ways to use the strategies right away and like actually put them to use. So, we'll just take a few minutes for this and since our time is limited. But if you want to think about, you know, when it comes to your child's self-awareness and self-advocate, self-advocacy, what are your biggest hopes or your greatest hopes for them or for what that looks like? And kind of why is it important to you? And then I'm guessing that, you know, maybe not all of you, but many of you might have some worries or concerns about your child's self-awareness or self-advocacy. common for parents of neurodivergent kids to worry about their kid being able to notice what they need and advocate for it. And you're here to learn about it. So if you want to take a minute to jot down any worries that you have or things that bother you or keep you up at night, or… kind of thing. specifically around this topic. And then you can just think, are there any specific questions you have? You know, if you think about where your kid is right now in terms of how they're aware, you know, how self-aware they are. ability to advocate for themselves, you know, do you have any questions about kind of how to kind of, I think of it as like bridging the bridging the gap between where they are now and what you really hope for them. And these are questions you could bring up at the end of the talk today, or you might talk in, you know, groups about it, or it may even be something that you… if you have other people in your life who you talk with about supporting your kid, you know, a partner, or a therapist, or something like that, you could. So think about it with them. And then we'll get into some of these ideas that I hope will, at the end, I'll bring you back to these questions so you can kind of reflect on how to apply the information we talk about to these topics. Okay. I want to start by first talking about what is self-advocacy actually look like for 2E kids and teens and kind of what's involved. And in order to talk about that, I'm first going to talk about the paradigm that I use and why I kind of start all my talks now with talking about the neurodiversity paradigm. Because we really live in a world that operates under the pathology paradigm, and the tricky thing is with paradigms is that, you know. paradigms are usually like unspoken assumptions that shape the way we interpret reality, see things, what questions we ask, what supports we put in place, what goals we have for our kids, you know, all the ways we think about things. But there's often just like so unspoken and unquestioned that we may not even realize how a paradigm is shaping the way we think about something. And tonight, you know, I think for a lot of us, like, I mean, I think this is always relevant, but as I was thinking about self-awareness and self-advocacy, I think it's really helpful to reflect on the fact that, like, most of our society, right, really operates under the pathology paradigm, and these are direct quotations from, you'll see in the bottom left, this great essay by Nick Walker. You can Google it if you want to read it, it's available online, and she's an autistic writer and like academic and stuff. But so she described how really like the pathology paradigm kind of assumes that there is a right, normal, healthy, you know, correct way to kind of be a human and for a human brain and mind and body to function. And if your neurological configuration and functioning, which then means your way of behaving, thinking, perceiving the world diverges substantially from what we think of as normal, there's something wrong with you, right? And, you know, it's like if you reflect on this, it's like, yeah, we're sort of like, oh, that's kind of weird or off, or you may have gotten that message when you were growing up that like, ooh, you're just not quite normal, or there's like a best way to do this and you're doing it this other way. And I think this is a pretty pervasive set of assumptions that we don't even realize, and it's related to ableism and, you know, things like that. So in my work, I really focus on helping parents feel more confident embracing a neurodiversity paradigm and practicing this different way of thinking, which can be quite effortful because so much of our life has just been steeped in the pathology paradigm. But the neurodiversity paradigm kind of has a different set of assumptions and argues that diversity among human minds, such like, you know, people who are gifted, people who are autistic, ADHD, PDAers, have dyslexia, you know, that is like a lot of diversity in how people's minds are functioning. That's just natural. It's healthy. It's just a biological fact, and it's actually good, you know, the same way biodiversity is, like, good for a biome or for animals. Neurodiversity is good for humans. And that there is no normal or right way of being a human the same way there's no more, you know, Sorry, of like having a human mind or brain, the same way we wouldn't say that there's a normal or right ethnicity or gender or culture. And when we think about, you know, advocacy, like self-awareness and self-advocacy, I think it is helpful for us to acknowledge that a lot of self-advocacy happens within a society where, as it says at the end here, right, in regards to neurodiversity, social dynamics include inequality, privilege, and oppression, and A lot of times our neurodivergent kids experience discrimination, they experience less access to things, they may experience forms of oppression, they have less privilege around their disability, they may have more privilege around their capacities and abilities and gifts. But the, you know, self-advocacy is not just, like, good for all kids, but they're also operating in often in a place that's in the pathology paradigm, you know, and that isn't seeing them or their way of being is, like, a natural valuable form of human diversity. But also, like, if, you know, settings can embrace that diversity, it's this source of creative potential within a group or society, which you may have noticed in your own family, you know, that your kid can bring in, like, a really different perspective and a lot of energy and things like that. I also wanted to share, I don't know if you know who Elise Myers is, she is like a digital content creator, a comedian, she's a writer, she has a book, she has, you know, she's a young mom, and she learns she's autistic just a few years ago, and she had this, um, this video of, like, messages from my younger self. And I love what she's saying here, that she's like, I really wish I knew I were autistic sooner. I won't read the whole thing, but she's talking about, you know, I wish I would have understood that I was not broken and I did not need to heal myself. I just needed to learn how to adapt my life and way that made sense to me and worked for me and didn't make me feel like I hated myself. And she talks a lot about the depression and stress and, you know, like, things she went through as an undiagnosed younger autistic person, and I thought this was just, like, such a great definition of self-advocacy. to share that, that I think a lot of times it's easy for us to get stuck in this, like, the world is not gonna take care of you, and so you need to advocate for yourself, and definitely. And how can we help our kids learn? Like, yes, you will have to deal with neurotypical norms and the pathology paradigm, but also how can you adapt your life in a way that makes sense and works and make you it helps you actually like yourself right and like your life. So when we think about self-advocacy, right, I wanted to break it down into these pieces tonight and just talk you through some strategies for these different pieces. Um, because a lot… in order to be able to successfully advocate for yourself, you know, for your kid or your teen, or even for us as adults, First, you have to be aware of like. What do you need, you know, like what are your characteristics? What are your needs? What are your preferences? You have to understand yourself enough to know, like, what do I personally need to be successful here or to feel more comfortable or good here? And then not only do you have to be aware of it, but you have to really trust it. You have to like not discount immediately, like, you know, I'd really prefer if it were this way, but I shouldn't feel that way, I should just it up and get along. So, you know, they have to be able to trust, like, no, this, or even a kid who's like, my sweater is itchy. No, it's not. Okay, I guess it's not. You know, like, never mind. They have to be able to trust, like, yeah, no, it is, I don't like it, it's uncomfortable. And they have to trust their own sensations, experiences, and feelings, and then, you know, some kids get that far, but they don't really have a sense of self-worth and they don't believe that their needs and preferences are valid and worthy of care. And so in order to. want to advocate for yourself and do that successfully, you have to believe that you deserve, you know, to be taken care of and that you deserve to have your needs met or your preferences considered. Then, if you, like, know what you need, and you believe you deserve it. You have to know, like, well, what can I ask for, what's available, you know, like, what's out there, or what's something that's reasonable to ask for, and then you need the advocacy skills of, like, how do I actually ask for it? How can I access help? You know, how do I, like… literally talk to someone or, you know, find the right office or do that kind of thing. And then last, I think they, you know, someone needs to believe that, like, it's actually gonna work, you know, cause some kids and teens, they have all these other things, but they're like, it never works. Like, I advocate for myself, I do these things, and it's disappointing. Um, so really thinking about, you know, I think a lot of times in our discussions of self-advocacy, we do focus on, like, self-awareness and the advocacy skills, but we miss a lot of the other pieces. And so I want to touch on just those other pieces a little bit tonight. Well, I'll touch on all of them. But this may be something too as you're thinking about where your kid is at, you know, maybe they even have self-awareness and advocacy skills, or you've known how to support that, but you may recognize, like, oh, we could spend some more time on self-trust or self-worth or something like that. So I'm going to go through some different approaches to support these different things, and I struggled with, like, how to… I'm not a very concise person, and like I said, there's a lot of things to discuss. But so, I'm gonna just give you a number of different ideas that you can just kind of take what stands out to you, and I've given little, like, badges of, like, which skills does this touch on because there is some overlap. So you'll see. kind of going in order, but I think one of the first things you can do that is can be so beneficial for self-advocacy is to trust your child's feedback and their experiences, and that you'll see that builds self-awareness and self-trust, right? But a lot of neurodivergent people learn to doubt themselves and their perceptions, their sensory needs because, and you may relate to this if you identify as neurodivergent, a lot of times when neurodivergent people share something, you know, it gets like not trusted. You may already be self-aware, but if we as the adults don't listen or trust them when they tell us what they like or dislike or prefer or experience or need, then they don't learn to really be aware of it or trust it. And that could be an example. The itchy sweater is a great example where it's like, I've had clients who are like, and then I said it was itchy, and it's like, "It's not that itchy, you'll get used to it. And the kid was like, "I did not get used to it, you know? So if a kid's like, hey, I don't like this, you know, sometimes parents are like, oh, no, you'll like it when you get there, or it's not that bad or that's not important or, you know, don't worry about that. And sometimes our two kids are telling us the things that they want or need, but society has told us they're not okay. Like my kid knows that screen time is really regulated, but I have to really push back against all these voices that are like, "Don't just give your kids screen time because they say they want it. You know, it's like, but it is a very useful tool for him. have been able to work together to be like, how can we use that as a way to help you regulate? So sometimes your kids are telling you what they need, but you feel like you're not allowed to listen to them, you know, so knowing that it's really helpful to trust your kids and that that is a form of them building trust. in themselves. There may be things too, like, I'm tired, you know, mom, I can only do this for another 10 minutes, and then I need to go home. It's like, what? But we paid for this class, or we just got here, you know, whatever it is. Um, and so really trusting that and listening to them. That makes sense. Okay, along similar lines is, like, really normalizing fluctuating capacity, and I think capacity is such an critical, like, concept for parents of neurodivergent kids to know, and for neurodivergent kids to know about themselves, And that it can underlie a lot of advocacy that a lot of times what kids could advocate for is changes in the things that are really draining their capacity. We all have limited capacity, right? None of us can handle everything all the time. We all need rest, we all need a break. Um, and we all have fluctuations in our capacity where some days we have more energy and other days we don't. Some days we're more patient, you know, and other days we're not. twice exceptional folks, they tend to have larger fluctuations in their capacity. They tend to find just like things that seem like they should be simple or daily tasks more draining of their capacity than other people do. They might find neuro-normative expectations more draining, so just having to show up at school and kind of, like, Put on a good face and behave and, you know, go through the day might drain their capacity a lot and some have less capacity overall than others, so I think. it's really important for our kids to know that it's okay, you know, it's expected, it's normal for them to have fluctuations in their capacity or to have limited capacity and feel like some things are just like too much for them, even if theoretically they could do it, they may just run out of. capacity in a day, because I think that will help them understand often, you know, their own experience and trust their own experience and know what sorts of supports to ask for. Um, so a lot of families find it helpful to use a metaphor to discuss capacity. You can talk about a battery and how, you know, your battery might run out more quickly or might run out more quickly on busy days or in social events, or when You have to do a lot of writing or things like that. The spoon metaphor comes from the chronic illness community and spoon theory can be helpful with this idea that you wake up with a certain number of spoons, it's kind of like an energy unit. And once you've spent all your spoons, you're kind of done. And I know families who have taught this concept to their kids and it can actually be really like a tool for them too, and not only does it help them be aware of like their own capacity and when they need support, you know, trust themselves, but they might say like, okay, mom, I haven't got, you know, enough spoons for five more minutes of this, and then let's time to leave the playdate, you know, like, or my battery's running really low. So that can be helpful. And then in addition to talking about, you know, talking about it, like I said, you know, you can regularly discuss it. Some kids really resonate with phrases that are just like, are you not in the mood for that today or not into it? Are you kind of tuckered out or stressed or overwhelmed? You know, are you out of spoons? And then really celebrating when they're able to recuperate their spoons or say no to something or take it easy or rest, you know, you can also, as we get into thinking about, like, what, you know, if we want them to have knowledge of, like, what sorts of accommodations or access needs you know, are available to them, or could be, you can think of ways to reduce demands and honor their capacity and talk through the reasoning with them. You know, you can suggest fewer activities, offer a day off of school, encourage them to spend time with interest, that kind of thing. And I think that over time honoring capacity is like huge benefits for overall well-being, you know, and if we can help our kids kind of stay within their capacity, they may not need as much advocacy going forward because they won't be as overwhelmed. It can really reduce a lot of shame that I think to eat kids and teens can feel about, like, why can't I do all the same things my friends can, you know, to know, like, it's not that you're not capable of it, or able to do it, it's just, like, you only have so much capacity, and so, you know, you may be out of capacity. there. So in addition to kind of like trusting your kid, this is similar, but I like to mention it because I think validation is one of the biggest helpful tools we can do with our two wee kids is really trying to validate their experience for them. Not every kid likes, like, verbal validation, but a lot of Tui kids do in my experience, I think because a lot of them are very verbal. And a lot of Tui people, kids and teens, experience kind of chronic invalidation and misunderstanding. You know, so I have the itchy sweater example, but it can be all kinds of things where they just can get the feedback of you overreacting. Oh, that's too much, or that's not as big a deal as you're making it, you know, and that can lead to a lot of distress, shame, conflict. So if you can focus on validating their experience and letting them know, like, yeah, that makes sense, or I see why you feel that way, or I see how you're thinking about that, that can be really helpful for your relationship, right? But then it also builds the sense of self-trust. It's almost like the opposite of gaslighting. I think a lot of Tui kids go through life feeling kind of gaslit. So if you're like, yeah, no, I see what you're saying, you're right, that is a stupid system, they should not do it that way. I don't know why they set it up that way, you know, that was a waste of our time and you just found it, they're like, thank you, okay, you know, or like a common complaint would be like, my teacher's unfair. It's like, well, I'm sure they're doing the best they can, right? But actually be like, I'm sorry your teacher is unfair, that really stinks. Adults can be unfair sometimes, like, tell me about it, and to be able to validate, like, that does sound unfair. You know, it helps them realize, like, okay, yeah, I'm not crazy. Like, that did feel unfair. You know, that's like a key piece of them being able to, I think, advocate for themselves in the future. Some examples of things that could be validating responses. I think this is a little bit different than validating feelings. A lot of TUI kids don't love validations around like feeling words. Like, oh, I see you're frustrated, or of course you're sad about that. You might get back like, I'm not sad, like, I'm not frustrated, that was just stupid, you know? And often, like, validating the kid's thoughts or perspectives, or, like, the problem with the system can be a lot more validating than focusing on their feelings, right? So instead of saying, I'm sorry you hate brushing your teeth, you know, it's more like brushing teeth isn't fun or like, oh, I'm sorry you're frustrated that we're spending our time doing this. It can be like, I know, you rather be doing anything else, you know, and really just trying to validate where they're coming from or like, this is overwhelming. Ugh, math homework when you've been at school all day, already working, I get it. I don't know why they make this so uncomfortable, you know, you can kind of blame the object, like, oh, those sandals are so tricky, and a common favorite is just, like, who designed it this way? Like, who decided it should be this way? And a lot of our kids are good at recognizing, like, why is this set up like this? This doesn't make any sense or this is annoying and just being able to validate that. Okay. The next one here is if that for the self-worth piece, I think a lot of Tui kids like really struggle with feeling like it's okay to ask for help right or okay to use the accommodations that are available or things like that. This is kind of like a big life project for you to help them embrace a positive neurodivergent identity for themselves. I think as parents, if we can personally like really work to unlearn ableism, the pathology paradigm, neuronormativity is kind of like these ideas about what's just normal and expected, right? Like that often requires like unlearning some of those perspectives and learning more about neuro affirming points of view, and then that can enable us to show up and really help our kids embrace those pieces of themselves. I find it very helpful to surround myself with neuro affirming points of view and language. I follow, you know, creators on Instagram. I sign up for email lists, I listen to podcasts, you know, there's so many great places you could choose like your favorite way of learning about things. So that you can really see your kids, you know, different way of being is like totally valid and lovely when you may have really been only exposed to more deficit, you know, focused versions of their. type in the past. I also think it's really helpful, like a lot of us, you know, neurodivergence is very heritable, so if your kid is neurodivergent, you may be as well, or you may even if you wouldn't be diagnosed with something, you might relate to some of their experiences. So I think for some of us, it can be helpful to reflect on, like, what messages did we get about our own big emotions, our sensory sensitivities, or strong opinions about things? You know, what were we taught to ignore or suppress? been really kind of unlearning that for ourselves so that we can also, you know, it's like if we believe that we're worthy of care, it helps our kids believe that they're worthy of care. And so this is like, this isn't just like a, like, this is a big task, you know, but really it's like about embracing a different way of viewing things. And then yeah, framing neurodivergent characteristics as differences instead of deficits. And when you're a kid, when you're thinking about advocacy, a lot of kids won't accept accommodations or are uncomfortable if they're framed in this sense of like, well, you have a really hard time with this, or this is a deficit or a challenge you have, so you need help. But if you can frame it more in terms of, like, your brain works differently and the things you need are different, and school really isn't set up for you, for example. So this is to make it more equal, you know, or to make school work for your brain, that can be a much more appealing framing, um, from this more, you know, positive neurodivergent space. Okay. Let me just check our time. Okay, we're doing good. In terms of, you know, if your kid, like, once a kid is feeling like, okay, I know what's hard for me, or I know where I'm at, or what I would prefer, um, you know, and I believe I deserve support, but, like, what is even available? One way to think about this, that you have like complete control over is at home, that you can actually model all kinds of accommodations and ways for your kids to get their daily needs met in the home. Some of which are not even relevant outside the home, but it can create this awareness of, like, the types of things that are available and that work for them generally. We remember that there's no one right way to have a mind, right, it also means there's no one right way to get ready in the morning to feed everyone in the family, to do your laundry, you know, to shower, keep track of hygiene. There's so many different ways to do that. If you can, like, really. work on offering support for the things that are hard and tricky at home, you can model some of the types of things that help. You know, so if your kid has a hard time getting started at home, you can see, does it help if you help them get started, or what if you give extra transition time? What if you put everything in one place? You know, you can experiment with all these different accommodations that might help them get started more easily, and then they see, oh, these are the types of things that help me, these are the types of things that are available. And if you find things that help, then they can use some of those ideas in other settings, too. I won't read through all of these, but these are, you know, different examples of, like, if you know that your kid struggles with a certain thing, thinking about, like, okay, what are some accommodations or access supports we could use at home? Okay, and then you can also, I think, in thinking, especially if you think about, like, for support outside the home, but this is true inside the home too, you know, I think a lot of times we think about self-advocacy in terms of like, what's hard for you and let's get help for the things that are hard for you, right? But a lot of things that can be really helpful are also, like, strengths-based approaches. So that's not only like what's hard and let's make it a little easier, but like Like what makes things easier and more fun and more interesting for you, and let's bring those in, because that often helps kids access and do better at things that would otherwise be hard. You know, so some examples at home are that you could request elsewhere. If you can incorporate your kids' interests into something, that is going to make it so much easier for them to access that task or that learning. It's going to probably be regulating for them, so you could do that during the morning routine, you know, you could talk with them about their interests while you're helping them get ready for the day or transitioning to breakfast. They could also do it in a school assignment and to see, like, are they… can they write about their interests? Can they have some choice in terms of topics or things like that? Even things like using music during routines, some kids get that accommodation to listen to music while they're doing work at school too, right? So just thinking not like accommodations and the things that you can advocate for isn't just like, here's the stuff that's hard for me, and this is what will help, but also just, like, here's the stuff that helps me, and I want to bring it into as many settings as I can, if that makes sense. Okay, and then I also think a lot, so then if a kid like has, right, some awareness of what they can ask for, I really encourage parents to think about advocacy as a process, and we can model this for our kids, where really thinking and, like, focusing on the process more than the outcome. And I used to talk about this with parents a lot. This helps me, because I have been… I will say, as a parent, you tend to have to advocate for your kid… sorry, as a parent of, like, a gifted or two-y neurodivergent kid, you tend to have to do way more advocacy than the average parent. My kid is almost eight and it's like, I've done so many hours of advocacy. We've advocated with every school, you know, sometimes the outcome was great, sometimes the outcome was not successful at all, and we had to leave the school, right? But I… so it's, like, been helpful for me to think of, like, The outcome, we want the outcome to be successful if it can be, but we can't control the outcome of the advocacy, right? We can only control being thoughtful about what we need, being creative about what we ask for, you know, engaging in the process, standing up for ourselves. And so really focusing on the process piece. Um, so I have an example here, and when I talk about my program with parents is like, you can say almost exactly the same thing if it went well or if it went poorly, where you're just focusing on the process. So with this example, usually I talk about preparing for a shot, but you could think about this if your kid hates going to the dentist or the doctor or something. That's something where you can advocate, right? But regardless of like, yay, they got the shot and they weren't scared or oh my gosh, they were terrified. awful and you had to hold them down at the end and they did get the shot, but it was traumatic or you know not traumatic but like stressful, you can still reflect on the process with them in almost the same way, right? So these two things are basically the same, except for the beginning, where it's like, oh, it went so well. really great job trying out different strategies. You let me know what you liked and didn't. You were really brave, right? We're a great team. Even if it doesn't go well, it's like, that was really stressful, but still, you did a great job trying out different strategies. You let me know what you liked and didn't. You were really brave, and were to keep working on it. Where the success is in trying, you know, and seeing does this work or not? And you're always learning. So even if you feel like, oh, we did all this advocacy and we didn't get the outcome we wanted, I think modeling the fact that your kid is still learning a lot about themselves and learning about the advocacy process. And kind of the self-care process regardless of what happens in the end, if that makes sense. Okay. The other thing I like to talk about is that a lot of our kids, when they start self-advocacy. Like I think Tui kids actually tend to be like pretty good at self-advocacy. They give a lot, they often give a lot of feedback about what they like and don't, but it often starts as like yelling, screaming, insulting people in their family, telling you you're stupid or criticizing what you've done, refusing to do things, avoiding negotiating, you know, things that don't feel like, "Oh, my child is a beautiful advocate for themselves. It just feels really difficult. But if we think about the different pieces of self-advocacy, right, kids often, when they're doing these things, are showing that they are aware of something that is not working for them or that feels too hard, right, or that doesn't. And they're letting us know and so instead of like shutting this down, if we can see this as like a seed of self-advocacy, I think this can help our kids develop this skill over time and really start to build trust in the process that when I speak up and say that something isn't working for me, it's going to help, you know? Like, there's a point in doing that, whereas if kids speak up this way and then just feel like they always get shut down, why would they keep speaking up? Or like, you know, they might give up on that. And so there are some ways that you can encourage what they're telling you. So one would be like, thank you for letting me know. Sometimes I'll be like, thanks for letting me know you do not like this, or like, you're making it really clear this isn't working for you. I'm really glad you showed us that this didn't feel okay. Or you might almost like translate, you know, like, okay, I, it looks like you want more space right now, or like, hey, your brother's letting you know he doesn't like that brother may just be screaming, right? But you're saying, like, brother's letting you know he doesn't like it when you do that. And what I find is when parents practice this, the kids almost like, you know, they hear then like that another way to, to express it, you know, and then later they might be like. you know, it's often gradual, so if you're like, oh, thanks for letting me know you didn't like that, you know, because they're just like screaming or hitting you, then the next time it's like, I don't like that! You know, it's like a little gradual step towards eventually, like, I don't like that, can we do it differently? But knowing that it's okay for it to build gradually like that and that you want your kid to feel like speaking up for themselves is successful, so they want to keep doing it. I also think it's really important if we think about we want it to work. I think parents feel like they need to get their kids really independent with self-advocacy. I encourage parents to help with the advocacy process really as long as you can. is hard to advocate for oneself. A lot of adults cannot advocate for themselves, right? It's a difficult and complex skill. It's often socially awkward or difficult. Also, in my experience, adults don't listen. You know, I've had high schoolers who are extremely articulate and advocate for themselves and the teachers say no, even if it's in their 504, right? So a lot of times it's like they're just not given much respect. So it can be really helpful and I think it's fine to step in and back them up, right, and knowing that your support might be necessary for success and that you're not hampering your kid in that way, we want them to have a positive experience, and that our society is… there's a lot of childism of, like, not taking kids seriously. You can also just gradually offer opportunities for your kid to see the process modeled and to do a little bit more as they get more comfortable. So I gave this example here of, like, asking for help from a teacher. One way you can practice, I even done this with, like, My kid when he was in preschool where it's like, what should we let your teachers know, you know, that was really bothering you, and then we like sit there and draft an email together and it's like, okay, you know, and I might provide most of the ideas, but he would give me some information. might eventually provide more of the ideas as they get older, they can email the teacher themselves, they may eventually work up to asking the teacher for help in person after emailing, you know, or doing it spontaneously in the moment. But just thinking, how can you build those skills a little bit at a time? And just letting them know that you're always there as backup, you know, or that you can step in and support if needed. Okay. So, in terms of reflection and resources, if you think back to your greatest hopes for your child's self-advocacy, now that we've talked through those different pieces, or, you know, have kind of, like, looked at it from different angles, I just want to give you a minute to think, is there anything that you'd like to adjust or add that you hadn't thought of as, like, a piece of the self-advocacy process? And then when you look at your worries about self-advocacy, I put the different skills that I talked about today on the left-hand side. Is there a skill that you want to help build up first? You know, do you feel like there's one where your kid could use more support, or even one where you're like, ooh, I can do that? Like, you know, I want to do that with them. Are there any specific ideas from today you want to try? And just what questions do you have about today, anything we talked about or how to support your kids' self-advocacy. And you could think, are there any resources you need? Which you email me and ask for resources. Folks at REEL might have resources, or it may be something that's not specific. To any of us here, but that you're just aware of, like, ooh, I need to look into some of these things in order to help that. And I was just going to tell you about a few free resources I have if they would feel helpful. They're not self-advocacy specific, but these are free resources I have from Gifted Learning Lab. I recently put together this quiz where you can, like, kind of answer questions about your kid and get feedback about which standard parenting advice is most likely to kind of like clash with the way your kids brain works. And it gives you like three strategy swaps to try, where it's like, this is the standard advice that probably isn't going to fit based on how you've described your kid, and here's what you could try instead. Yeah, and that's on my website, and then I also have a free email mini course with strategies to reduce power struggle, which includes some of the strategies from today, but looking at it through like a power struggles lens. And then I have a coaching program, which is not a free resource, but the next cohort starts in January if you're looking for like more kind of involved support. Yeah, until it's time for questions. Let me stop sharing there. Okay. Okay. etc. **Teresa Nair:** Thank you, Danika. That was fantastic. There's a lot going on in the chat. You've really gotten a lot of people thinking and we got a couple questions. So I think I'll hand it over to Yael. We'll probably do two or three questions. And like Danika said, there are many ways to find her. **Yael Valek:** Yeah. Okay. **Teresa Nair:** Definitely check out her resources and her website, because I know she'll continue this conversation and be presenting in other places, too. So, Yael, did you want to give us maybe some questions that we can kind of lump together? Because we even had some themes, which I thought was kind of interesting. **Yael Valek:** Yeah, if there's a theme you'd like to pick out, Teresa, feel free. **Teresa Nair:** Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, do we have one? I saw a lot of kids weren't ready to necessarily talk. **Yael Valek:** Yeah. **Teresa Nair:** about their neurodivergence and have those labels and even share them with teachers and other things like that. How do we help our neurodivergent kiddos find that self-worth maybe if that's the but what do we do for kids that just aren't ready to be quote-unquote that? Or no, I'm not that. **Danika Maddocks:** Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it can be like a long process because they have probably gotten a lot of ableist messages about what it means to be those different things. I mean, in my coaching program, I'm like, oh, there's so many different ways to approach it. So it could be pretty individual, but a few things that come to mind. that are really powerful for some kids, so 1 is like just talking about their brain, like really starting with things that they would completely agree with or feel really good about just in daily conversation where you just start to normalize like reflecting on our needs and preferences and their strengths and things like that. Because then as you see to the types of things that they really identify with, it can start to be connected to those forms of neurodivergence. I have an article on my website, I'm like, I can put the link here about how to talk with your kids, you know, about different characteristics in their, like, in their brain where you're not necessarily using the terms or the jargon, but just like, um, you know, you're really good at noticing patterns, right? And it's like, that's an autistic thing and a gifted thing, and you don't have to label that, but if your kid can learn that about themselves, Sometimes you can even, like, kids may ask for accommodations just based on brain characteristics without a label, right? They don't necessarily need to share those things. I think another big thing that can be really powerful is like if parents start to learn about their own neurodivergence, being able to share with their kids, like, you know, you're not the only one in the family who's autistic or as I learned about ADHD from you, I started to really recognize parts of myself. And that's one of the biggest things I've seen, which, you know, won't be relevant for every family, but it is relevant for a lot of families. And a lot of the families I work with talk about that being a big shift for their kids because the kids have been feeling like, oh, I'm the weird one, I'm the one who went and got a diagnosis, you know, like… kind of that pathology paradigm, like, there's something wrong with me, and for the parents to be like, I think it's all of us, or like, hey, I'm… I have this, you know, um, brains. Sometimes the kids are like, oh, well, I look up to you, you know, or we can talk about this, and it becomes not like a… the weird one out, but like this is just an experience we can share. **Teresa Nair:** Yeah, I literally had our neuropsych when we sat down for our first kiddos, you know, evaluation discussion, the neuropsych eval said, well, just so you know, um, the neurodivergent apple doesn't fall very far from the neurodivergent tree. And I was like, Me? Like, which… what tree? Like. **Danika Maddocks:** Yes, yes. **Teresa Nair:** Okay. Like, wait a second, give me a minute and so it was one of those things where she just jumped us right into it, so it was really helpful, though I do think it is helpful to be on your own experience and show your kids you're kind of going through it, too, so… **Danika Maddocks:** Yeah. **Teresa Nair:** Yeah, yeah, what do you have for Danika? **Yael Valek:** So I'm going to lump a few together. How do we work through them advocating for themselves, but also working through tasks we have to do whilst not being invalidating? We've been so accommodating that now everything is being met with resistance to the point where he doesn't want to do anything **Danika Maddocks:** Hmm. **Yael Valek:** And another one that's similar, how to balance pushing older teens and young adults a little, having expectations you believe they can meet without shaving overwhelming and helicoptering them. **Danika Maddocks:** Hmm. And it's hard to answer without knowing more specifics, I guess like paradigm wise where I come from, right, it's really like the assumption that kids do well when they can. So if a kid is pushing back and avoiding things, I would get really curious about like what is going on that's making this feel hard. Some teen, some allotted teens can be in burnout, right, or they can, they can just, they're just out of capacity and it might seem like something that they should be able to do because of their age or that you think they would be able to handle. But maybe they have a PDA profile and asking them to do stuff just kicks off a threat response or I think I would start with trying to understand like what is it that's getting in the way and then it's interesting because like. You can't, you can definitely drop demands and that can be really helpful. And some kids also just need a lot more support doing the thing. You know, they may be able to do the thing, but they need a lot more supports and accommodations. So some of it might also be problem solving, like. you know, if we've dropped a lot of demands, but now we think the kid can do this, what supports need to be in place in order to make it accessible to start, especially, and to get a sense of success or momentum, or ability, you know, um, capability? before expecting more independence with it. So those are a few initial ideas. I don't know if I missed something in there. **Yael Valek:** No, I think there's a lot of that. How do you balance? I think that's a good answer. How do you balance between **Danika Maddocks:** Yeah. **Yael Valek:** The validating and the getting them back into it later. **Danika Maddocks:** And sometimes if you really, I'll say, like, I do have a strategy I talk about in my program, like the view strategy or view approach where you're validating, it stands for like validating intensity, encouraging their strengths, and then waiting to teach. So sometimes you need a lot of validation and to drop it and then to come back to it later versus like validating them and then being like, but now let's do it, you know, like, oh, I know you don't want to do it, but now we're gonna. Or like here why it's important, because that can kick up resistance again. It could be about just like. You know, the timing of the conversation also that maybe they need a lot of validation without any pushing after it, you know, or any explaining why they need to do it, and then coming back around to it another day or something like that. **Yael Valek:** Teresa, do you want more questions? There's tons more. **Teresa Nair:** Let's go with one more and then we can work in breakout rooms and see where we go from there. So one more question, Yael. **Yael Valek:** Okay, so part of the conversation surrounding feelings is that it feels like there's so much validations, which I want to give, but sometimes it feels dramatic or theatrical, even though it's real. I'm just at the end of my capacity and at the same time, I do want to recognize my child and their experience, and I'm wondering how best to do that I want to acknowledge that the day has been a lot just to exist sometimes is a lot. At the same time, she already feels very heavy, and that she stands out. So trying to find that balance as well. **Danika Maddocks:** Hmm. Yeah, I heard a couple things in there of like sometimes we feel out of capacity, right? Or like we're, I mean, and sometimes I think parents do need more support, you know, or like, are there ways to build up more resources so we can sit with our kids and their feelings? It's interesting, I think sometimes too, like… Sometimes parents are trying to validate in a way that's not resonating with their kids, so it feels like this endless. bucket of, like, I'm validating, I'm validating, and you're still stuck here, so sometimes it's, I think, tweaking, like, what makes your kid feel really seen and heard. Um, and then also maybe you don't have to say anything more, maybe you just need to be with them. I mean, it's so hard to say, because it's different from kid to kid, But I think like Yeah, I'm just like, I want to acknowledge, like, yeah, sometimes you just like, I don't have, I don't me to keep validating you, right? Or like, I'm tired. But yeah, I wonder, too, if there's a way, if there's something that that kid needs that they're just not getting. Some kid, I don't know if this is relevant for this family, but some kids who are especially intense or dramatic. Really do feels sooth when someone validates with a similar level of intensity, right? So if it's like if a kid is really dramatic and you're like, I know, it's been a hard day, you know, they're like, you're not listening! It's the worst day of my life! You know, and if you're like, oh, your day sucked, you know, then they're like, Okay, you got it, you know, like, you heard me, I feel it, so some parents experiment with that. It's like, do you need to hear that? I'm like, I hear you, that is the worst. Or even what the parents said of like, yeah, being a humanitulous, you know, like… Sometimes that might be something that it's like, okay, mom can't say it or dad gets it. So, yeah. Yeah. **Teresa Nair:** Well, and I think that's a wonderful, I hadn't thought about it that way. You know, finding how they receive validation has got to be part of it, right? And kids receive adults receive validation differently when you're talking to your boss or you're, you know, walking through whatever. **Danika Maddocks:** Yeah. **Teresa Nair:** It hits different, you know, so I think that's a great… I love that point. And there's been so many, yeah. **Danika Maddocks:** Sometimes you have to experiment, yeah, where it's like, you can't say that something's validating in and of itself, you have to see, like, do they feel… did they get the message of, like, you get me! Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yes. **Teresa Nair:** Yeah. Why is this not validating you? You should feel validated right now, aren't it? Oh yeah, so thank you so much, Danika. And what I'm going to do is we're going to start our breakout rooms. So let me show a quick slide. And Danika. If you need to drop off, feel free to or stick around, whichever you need to. **Danika Maddocks:** Yeah, I'll say… **Teresa Nair:** Yeah. **Danika Maddocks:** Mm-hmm. **Teresa Nair:** Do that. **Danika Maddocks:** Yeah. **Yael Valek:** And I was going to say, Danika, if you can put your information in the chat, how do people sign up for your groups, get a hold of you? **Teresa Nair:** Yes. How can they find you? **Danika Maddocks:** Yes, and then I'm planning… I'm planning to step out and do bedtime and then theoretically come back, which, as Teresa, you were like, we understand if that doesn't happen, but my kid is usually asleep by now, so I'll probably be able to come back in like 20 or 30 minutes, or, well, I guess we don't… we only **Teresa Nair:** If you can. **Danika Maddocks:** time would be great. Thank you. **Teresa Nair:** Thank you. Wonderful. **Danika Maddocks:** I have, like, 30 minutes, but I'll come back. If I can, I'll come back and be available for questions in the main room. Yeah. **Teresa Nair:** Okay. All right, well thank you, Danika. So for those of us sticking around, we're going to do two breakout rooms tonight. We usually do them for about 15 to 20 minutes, and so it looks like we've got some 15-minute breakout rooms. The first one, Yael, where are you starting us? Is that age? **Yael Valek:** I'm not seeing **Teresa Nair:** Or she's like, I don't know what I'm doing. **Yael Valek:** The breakout rooms aren't showing up on my host tool, so give me a second. **Teresa Nair:** Well, let me know if you need me. **Yael Valek:** Maybe they may not be enabled in this room because we always host this somewhere else. **Teresa Nair:** Yeah, that's true. We don't use them in this room, and that's okay. **Yael Valek:** I truly apologize, but I don't think they're here. **Teresa Nair:** Okay, well, and another thing, if you want to, we've got some questions in the chat that I can go ahead and take a swing at while Danika's not here. So, Yael, will you poke around? I'll look at one or two of these questions. Um… So, what I wanted to mention was when Danika was talking about… The validation, and when she did her kind of view, I think she said, the validate, and then give them space and things like that. One thing that I've heard a lot in my parent groups is they have found that when their kiddos have a sense of autonomy, especially the later teens. you, you know, kind of validate where they're at, and you step back, and then you give them autonomy of some sort to, you know, um, take it off their plate, but it needs to be done, you know, choose when you're gonna do this before X, Y, and Z kind of thing. trying to find some autonomy has really helped with some of the parents and the teen groups that I work in, and I wonder if that would kind of be helpful as we look at even self-awareness and self-advocacy. Where are you at with your spoons? What is your level? If you don't have them today, you know, or if you don't have them right now, you know, are you going to have them maybe after break, kind of those things, too. One of the things that I do with my team when we talk about self-advocacy is I ask when they want me to get involved. And so they know that they can come to me and kind of talk it through, and I'll ask, like, you know, how would you like this to be handled? And kind of see whether or not they I want my involvement, how they plan to handle it, and I found myself many times being like, are you sure you don't want me to jump in? Like, I can jump in. Do you need me to jump in? Those kind of things. Um, so letting them know that we're just kind of there to support as we teach them these advocacy… advocacy steps is a great way to do it. What do you think, Yael? Are we gonna do breakout rooms today, or should I? You can't find them, huh?
