Video: Beyond Social Skills: Helping Neurodivergent Kids Build Friendships
Read the AI Summary
On Tuesday, November 10, 2026, REEL closed out its winter Expert Speaker Series with "Beyond Social Skills: Helping Neurodivergent Kids Build Authentic Friendships." Yael Valek hosted a panel with Amanda Morin, head of school at Compass High School and author of six books; Heather Erba, special education expert and co-founder of Connect Ed; and Sam Young, CEO of Young Scholars Academy. The big theme of the night was that friendship for twice-exceptional and neurodivergent kids should be defined by the kids themselves, not by adult expectations or neurotypical norms.
Amanda opened by describing friendship as a spectrum, from classmates and shared-interest friends to brief moments of connection, and by drawing a clear line between belonging and fitting in. She reminded parents that alone doesn't always mean lonely, and encouraged them to get curious before getting concerned by asking open-ended questions, listening without jumping to solutions, and remembering that disappointment doesn't equal deficit. Her practical framework was to validate, explore, and then collaborate, and to set kids up with short, structured, low-pressure opportunities built around their interests.
Heather walked through how the field has moved from teaching discrete social skills toward supporting "social satisfaction." She focused on three areas: regulation (understanding that social situations can feel like a threat to the nervous system), capacity (why a child might love a playdate one day and refuse it the next), and voice and self-advocacy. Sam then shared a fast-paced set of concrete tips, including involving kids in the process, "change your seat, not yourself," finding friends at the intersection of a child's interests and other people, being vulnerable about your own struggles, and using the inquire, follow up, relate (IFR) approach to conversation.
The Q&A covered telling anxiety apart from a lack of interest in friends, moving beyond a single friend, loud and chaotic recess, recognizing genuine friends, healing after bullying, supporting hyperverbal kids, and getting schools to adopt neurodiversity-affirming approaches. Panelists recommended partnering with school teams, sharing resources like Amanda's book Neurodiversity Affirming Schools, and starting change locally with individual teachers. Sam closed with a simple message for parents: lean into what your kids are good at and curious about, and the friendships will follow.
Read the Transcript
Yael Valek: Welcome, everyone, tonight. We're so glad you joined us. We're going to be talking about going beyond social skills and helping neurodivergent kids build authentic friendships with a super amazing panel. And this is available with Spanish translation as well. If you're not familiar with REEL, we are a nonprofit that ensures neurodivergent and twice-exceptional students thrive by raising parent and educator awareness and understanding of practical research-based strategies to address their needs successfully.
So you will be learning some of those this evening. Just in case you're not familiar, if you're here, you've probably seen this before. But what do we mean by twice exceptional, or 2E? These are children that have yellow, distinguishing strengths, high ability, or potential in one or more areas. Combined with blue, complex challenges such as autism, ADHD, anxiety, dyslexia, and so on, that combine To make a green learner, and they have… because they have these distinguishing strengths and complex challenges at the same time, these two combine, and, Require more support, and different kind of support, as you know, than either one of them alone.
Just to let you know a little bit about what REEL offers, for parents, we have this Expert Speaker Series, which you are attending tonight, and we have many more talks we're about to announce for the spring. And we also have a monthly parent support group. All these things are free, where you can log on. We have one this Thursday night. We have a private Google group with over a thousand parents in it, asking and answering each other's questions.
Free downloadable toolkits that have all kinds of things, like how to talk to your school, how to help your kid find their strengths. A lot of online resources from all kinds of topics, like how to get an IEP for a Choice Exceptional Learner, what is the assessment process, things like that. We have a list of schools. And a lot of articles about school guidance, how to choose a school for a twice-exceptional learner. We also host small facilitated groups on various topics, such as learning more about 2E, executive function challenges, and then we also offer one-on-one consultations that are tailored to your child's needs.
REEL also works with educators doing custom professional development. We bring workshops. You can have us come to your school to do interactive case studies and learning different simulations, tailored to your needs. We also have a lot of online resources, recorded talks, and an educator newsletter. We are in this year of addressing the whole child, talking about how the way we see children shapes the way they learn to see themselves, and when we look beyond their challenges and focus on their strengths, we can unlock their full potential.
And all of our talks have this thread running through them. We are wrapping up our winter talks. This is our final one, except for our parent support group, which will be about helping your TUI learner with self-awareness, so that's on Thursday evening. You can watch recordings of any of these talks that you missed on our website and our YouTube, and we will be… if you get on our newsletter, we will shortly announce our spring lineup. Again, here's some links, to follow us on socials, see our recordings on YouTube, and join our Google group.
And now I'm going to introduce our illustrious speakers. So we have Amanda Morin, is a nationally recognized neurodiversity advocate, educator, speaker, and award-winning author with more than 25 years of experience in education. She is the head of school at Compass High School, and has worked extensively with educators, parents, and organizations to advance inclusive, accessible, and neuroaffirming education. She is the author of six books and serves on advisory boards, including the Center for Belonging and Learning and the American Academy of Pediatrics Center of Excellence on Social Media and Youth Mental Health.
Heather Erba is a special education expert and co-founder of Connect Ed, with extensive experience as a teacher, behavior therapist, researcher, university faculty member, and family education specialist. Her work focuses on applying multidisciplinary research to understand complex developmental profiles. Designing individualized interventions, and helping schools take a whole child approach to behavior and engagement. She holds a PhD in early childhood special education from UNC Chapel Hill with a focus on young children with autism, and has conducted research on autism, Fragile X syndrome, and early intervention.
And last but not least, Sam Young is the CEO of Young Scholars Academy, a strength-based virtual village that empowers gifted and twice-exceptional students to thrive. Sam is a two-time Fulbright scholar, TEDx presenter, keynote speaker, and a neurodivergent person himself, who has committed his life to supporting clever, quirky students to overcome the harmful deficit-based system and discover, develop their superpowers, and lead strength-based, talent-focused lives. Love that. So I will let you take it away.
Amanda Morin: So, with that introduction, I, you know, always amazed to hear myself introduced like that, and also realize that I'm not really good at sharing my slides, so bear with me for a moment here as I get our slides up and running. Thank you all for joining us on a Whatever night this is, it is a… Tuesday night. Give me just one moment here. Okay, so… We are all going to sort of provide you with some information on neurodivergent children and, friendships. And I want to start by saying, like Sam, I'm also neurodivergent.
I have 3 neurodivergent children. I have navigated this on my own with them. as a teacher, as a parent, all of these things, so there's a combination of professionalism and lived experience that I come from when I talk about this. And we wanted to talk to you today about what is a neuroaffirming understanding of friendship, what does it mean when we're talking about connection and belonging, and what is our shared belief around neurodivergent individuals seeking and desiring connection? So I just want to start that.
There, because when we talk about connection and belonging, I'm trying to make sure I can do this, when we're talking about friendship. We really want you to understand that we're talking about authentic friendships. There are different levels of friendship, and we don't always talk with our children or our students about what does friendship and the spectrum of friendship mean, right? Because we're always meeting people. And sometimes we look at friendship and think it starts with, you have a stranger, you move to an acquaintance, you have a friend, and then you have a best friend.
But on that spectrum of friendship. There are all of these different ways to think about friends. Sometimes there are friends that you have, you have a shared interest, and those are the friends that you see at your club that you love being at. Sometimes you have classmates who you talk to during school, and you don't see them outside of school, and that's friendship as well. Sometimes we have those in the moment.
I mean, I think about the times where I've sat on an airplane, and I've talked to the person next to me, and I feel like a kinship with them, and then we go off in our separate ways, and I don't see them again, but I feel like that moment has been a moment of connection and belonging. So, what we want to do tonight as we have this conversation is make sure that we're talking about that entire group of friends, so that we can reframe this. As you think about how you have these conversations with the children in your lives, so they understand that friend doesn't have to mean just one thing. And I'm going to pause, because I know, like, I want to make sure that Heather and Sam have the opportunity to pop in, too, because I don't want to speak for them as well. But, one of the things that was really interesting as we looked up over some of the questions that came in, one of the questions popped out at me, and it was really fascinating.
It was… Is it, like… when can you stop making friends? Or, like, when in your life is it that you stop making friends? I mention this because Heather and I have recently met in person. We have known each other for a couple of years, and we have a really close friendship that has developed later in life, and so I want to share with you that it is never too late to keep making friends, and I just… I think that's a nice way to start this conversation. We want to talk about belonging and connection, because belonging and connection are part of what we talk about when we talk about friendship, right?
Belonging is that feeling that happens when we're a part of a larger group that values, respects, and cares for us. And to which we feel like we have something to contribute. That is different than fitting in, right? And fitting in is this opportunity, when we think about it, we think about. How do we make ourselves part of a group in a way that feels like we are part of that group and conforming to it?
That's not what we want to talk about tonight. We want to talk about belonging, where people can show up in spaces and feel connected. It's not a one-size-fits-all, right? Because everybody deserves this opportunity to find belonging. In ways that are meaningful to them.
When we talk about this, it's important to realize that that varies even inside your home, right? Like. my desire for friendship, my desire to connect with people may be different than my children's, and I have to… I have, over the years, had to stop and think about that a little bit myself, and realize, oh, am I putting my expectations of friendship on my own kids? And some… I'm going to be really honest in saying, yes, yes, I have done that. And I have backed away from doing that over the years, because I realized that they have this opportunity to talk about friends and think about friends their own way.
And one of those things… I want you to think as a parent, if you're a parent, and I know we might have parents, we might have educators, we may have… I'd be really interested to sort of see where you're coming at this conversation from. Parents… When you think about your child and you see them alone, what is the story that you tell yourself? What does that mean when you see your child alone? If you want to drop your answers in the chat, we'll keep an eye on it. I'm gonna… I'm going to share with you why I say that, because alone doesn't always mean lonely.
I think we hear the word alone, and we think, -oh, somebody's alone, and they're lonely, and they're missing out on something, and they feel… Sad. Being alone? is a snapshot in time, is a circumstance. Being lonely is the experience, right? And I think it's important for us to note these differences, because you can feel lonely even when you're around people.
And you can feel connected to people when you're alone. And I mention this difference because I think a lot of times parents will say to me, I'm really worried because my child spends a lot of time alone, and I'm not sure they're going to make any friends. And what I often say is, I also spend a lot of time alone, and I do that because it restores me. It recharges my social battery. It makes me available to be in friendships and be in social situations.
When I am lonely, it's when I'm feeling disconnected. It's when I feel excluded. It's when I'm longing for that connection. So I think it's just important for us to think about the fact that measuring alone as a social behavior and a measure of social well-being isn't the way that we we might want to reframe that a little bit, right? So, because we could have our 2E child surrounded by peers and feeling really disconnected and lonely, but we could also have somebody sitting in solitude and feeling very comfortable.
And so I want you to think about whether or not alone Is the same as lonely in your mind. Because it helps us think about friendship goals, right? And I think I talk about friendship goals because it's really important. I started this by saying, what is your… what is your idea of friendship, and does it match with your child's, right? Because if your child could design their own social life, do you know what that would look like?
Would it look different from what you would imagine for them? And I will tell you, as a parent, it occurred to me many years in. I often refer to my oldest child as my first pancake child, because she was my practice. She knows that. She's delighted with that description.
But there were things I didn't know. I thought that I wanted her to have more friends, I wanted her to go all the places, I wanted her to be invited places, I wanted her to be in groups, I wanted her to feel socially confident. And she… did not. She was comfortable having one really good friend. She was comfortable being by herself.
She was comfortable finding the person who shared an interest with her. She felt much more comfortable without that social pressure. And just wanted to be herself. And as parents, we have this idea of what a happy childhood looks like based on either our own childhood, or TV shows, or just ideas of what we think it should be. I… want us to rethink that, right?
I want us to think, and it comes from love, right? You love your child, and you want them to be successful, and you want them to have all of the things that you think is going to make them happy. But I think it's really important to start asking your child, what is it that you want? What is it that you want from your social life? Is it a big group?
Is it one person who understands you? Is it built around conversation? Is it built around activity? what's your level of comfort with social interaction? When I work with students, the first thing I say to them when we come in and we have a class in the morning is I ask them to tell me where their social battery is at, right?
And I realize… and I'll say to them, like, are you at a 10%? Are you at a 90%? Are you, you know… And they are really good about telling me where they are. And what we talk about is sometimes we have to match our energy to other people's social batteries, right? So thinking about what your social battery is, and whether or not being around other people recharges your battery or depletes your battery, that's a great way to start having those conversations with your child.
Because getting curious before you get concerned matters, right? Here's another question for you. I want… you to think about the questions when you ask your child about friendships. Are you asking those questions because you want to understand, or because you're looking for a specific answer? There's no wrong answer to this, it's just a reflection, right?
it means we, as parents, we, as people who are around children, we need to be social detectives before we teach our children to be social detectives, right? Instead of making assumptions based on what you've heard from teachers, or what you see. We can start exploring those specific moments in our child's day to find out more about how they're connecting socially. We talk a lot in education about motivational interviewing, that approach of asking lots of open-ended questions, listening without judgment, reflecting on what you hear. And this is the hardest part, resisting the urge to offer solutions immediately.
If you are a fix-it person, and I will raise my hand and say I'm a fix-it person. That ability to just take a step back and say, I need to listen before I solve, is a hard thing to do. So, sometimes we'll say, did you make any friends today? And also, if I said that to most adults in my life, I think they'd be like, today? Did I make a friend today?
It's a process, it takes time. I met somebody, I think they're interesting, I'd like to have more conversations. Because it's not a one-and-done. And so I think, instead of asking, did you make any friends today? Who did you spend time with?
Start asking the questions about the day, right? What's your favorite part of lunch? Do you have a group that you sit with? Do you like to be by yourself? When do you enjoy being around other kids, right?
Are there times that it's… you're wishing that you had somebody to hang out with? Are there times where you're wishing that you don't want to be hanging out with people? And, most importantly, if you My child, or to define your social life, if you wanted it to be different, what would that look like? Right? Because we want to open up those conversations so that they can tell us What is it that I'm hoping for here?
And some kids will say to you, I'm lonely. I would like to make friends. And that's when we can start building on that. And some kids will say, I'm cool, I'm okay. I have people that I talk to, I have people I can reach out to, and that's fine.
Just keeping in mind that that curiosity is how you open those conversations, because when we make assumptions, it often closes down. I'm sure we've all had that opportunity to have a conversation with a child where you say, well, so what I think is happening here. And then your conversation is over. So when you can say, tell me what is happening here, that's very different than, here's what I think is happening here. Not all kids are going to be able to articulate what they're feeling.
Those conversations are ongoing. Those are… you can do hypothetical scenarios. You can say, so, if somebody sat down next to you at the lunch table, what would you do? And sometimes kids would say I would scoot away. Sometimes kids would say, I want to know what they're eating for lunch, and sometimes kids would say, I'd say hello.
But any answer is acceptable. It's just a matter of starting that conversation. Because those hypothetical scenarios can be really much more accessible sometimes than that direct conversation about friendship. Because what we're doing is we're listening for that goal behind the feeling, right? And doing that takes a framework that I, like, I like to think about this as a framework, right?
Because, as I talked about, not everything needs an immediate solution, right? So if we start with validating And it could be validating that the experience was positive, or that the experience wasn't. It sounds really disappointing that that child didn't stay and have lunch with you. Or, that's really exciting, that you had somebody who wanted to get to know you a little bit better, validating that experience. Exploring more.
What were you hoping that would happen? What happened next? Can you tell me more about how you think this is going to benefit you and your friendship? And then collaborating. Do you want help?
Do you want my help? Right? So we've already… we haven't even started with, do you want my help yet? We've gone from, I'm talking about this, I want to know more, and then you come in, and sometimes the answer's going to be, I don't want any help. And you, as a parent, have to sit with that and be like, oh, no.
I'm going to try to help. How do I help? And sometimes it's just that listening, because when our children are telling us about our friendships. we don't always have to arrange the playdate. We don't always have to make the call to the other parent.
We don't always have to suggest what they do differently. Sometimes they just want us to listen. And we can use that reflective listening to understand where your child wants more connection, where they need different connection, where they need support navigating certain situations, and making sure that we don't interpret every disappointment as a deficit, right? Because disappointment doesn't equal deficit. Disappointment is sometimes just disappointment.
And it's very easy when you see your child struggling in some way to say, this disappointment is because of something that they don't have, but sometimes the disappointment comes from outside of them. We have experiences where people do not show up the way we expect them to, and that's disappointing, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your child has done something to cause that disappointment. Because then we can create opportunities, right? And I'm going to ask you to think about what's one assumption you can let go of, right? What's one question you can ask your child this week?
And, like, let go of your assumptions. Because opportunities are not obligations, I will tell you. I have spent many times in my parenthood career arranging playdates that have gone very poorly. My kids are old enough now that they would arrange their own playdates. They're, I'm going to say this out loud, 30, 24, and 16.
If I tried to arrange a playdate, I think they would just laugh at me. I think they would probably tell me to arrange my own playdate. Which is harder as an adult than it is for children. But arranging those experiences we do that based on our own social circles sometimes, and we don't think about what our child's social circles look like, right? So, what are your child's interests?
Like, where can they… dig in a little bit more. Where can they be next to kids? Not even having conversations, but next to other kids or other young… young humans who share their interests. We can lower the pressure. We can say, you know what?
Let's just go to the playground. Let's just go walk around… somewhere outside and see if there's anybody you know. Those short, structured opportunities, instead of saying, somebody's coming over for 2 hours, that's a lot of space to be in. with a child who may not know another child, right? So, providing that scaffolding, like, you can help plan the interaction, you can practice them, with them how to invite somebody over, you can arrange the transportation, and you could help them advocate for a break.
One of the best things I learned as a parent when my child was having playdates, and I realized after a while, like, he wouldn't let anybody play with his toys. He was probably about 9. He wouldn't let… and we had consistent meltdowns over the fact that this child wanted to play with his toys. I realized what I had to do before the playdate was say to him. hey, which toys do you not want anyone else to play with?
Let's put them away, right? So, like, putting those scaffoldings in place so that you're setting your child up for success, and redefining what that success looks like. Is it sharing everything, or is it making sure that you have some things that you can do together? Is it making sure that you have meaningful connections and not counting how many friends you have? What does that look like for your child?
Because we want them to connect on their own terms. I'm gonna take a pause, because that was a lot of information to just throw. I'm gonna poke into the chat. And I'm going to ask Heather if you want me to continue as you talk, to do the slides, because I can keep going with slides.
Heather Erba: Thank you so much, and I could just listen to you talk all day, because we really are in this exciting time of really transformation. I look at it as really a no better, do better. Regarding your question of the slides.
If you can give me permission to click, that might make me feel a little bit more in control. And if there's anything that popped up in the chat that we want to comment on now, because I do think we're talking about a shifted understanding of friendship and connection and belonging. So, Callie or Yael, has anything popped up that maybe we can address before we move on?
Yael Valek: I think a lot popped up, but we're probably best to save it for the end, if that's okay.
Amanda Morin: be able to advance the slides on your own now, and if not, just let me know, and I will help you, my friend.
Heather Erba: Perfect, thank you. I'm always willing to ask for help when I feel comfortable and safe, and we're going to talk about that as well. It's looking like I cannot, but maybe it's… there's a lag, so let's work with this. My name is Heather. I'm so happy to be here.
I want to thank REEL for welcoming me to this talk to really share a true passion, which is really thinking about social, and what it means to be a part of the social world. I will say that I am gonna have to pause. Amanda, can you stop sharing? The lag is gonna just unhinge me, and I think if I can share from my own screen, then we'll be fine.
Amanda Morin: Absolutely, absolutely.
Heather Erba: so much. So, what I'd really like to do is start by sharing a little bit of my history as a recovering social skills provider, right? So, Connect Ed was originally born from a recognition that our neurodivergent kids do need support in navigating the social world, right? So I have been in this community for the past 25 years, and I really see this opportunity as the first time that I'm really feeling that connection and belonging. and a deeper understanding of what it means to foster and honor and develop true social cognition and social belonging.
So I look at it as a truly a no-better, do better opportunity for us in the field, and I think that includes Educators and private providers, and us as parents of our very wonderfully diverse kids. I am a parent of four, very diverse and different children. They are, 19, 21, 23, and 25. I feel the same, so I do have all my stories of both Best intended efforts that have fallen flat, and all of the angst that kind of surrounds this very topic. So I thought I would kind of walk you through what I'm seeing as this evolution of social skills, and then we'll move from social skills to this understanding of what is social satisfaction, right?
And how can we move towards an understanding and honoring of our neurodivergent kids social satisfaction and how that's a shifted lens. So I think Amanda's really set us up so beautifully for that shifted understanding and focus on connection and belonging, and I think Sam will move us even more forward with some really specific, let's get practical on where we're going with that. So… Way back when, when I was in graduate school in the 90s, and when we were really learning, and I'll speak specifically through my autism lens in this point, where we were recognizing that We could impact social skills. Right? We could break down in finite pieces, And teach social.
That didn't include this understanding of connection and belonging. It didn't include a individual perspective of what it meant for that unique child from that perspective to belong. But we did learn that we could teach social skills specifically, right? So that was when we were thinking about, we need to teach neurodivergent children how to engage and make friends. Now, keep in mind, we were looking through a very neurotypical lens, right?
So the way in which we were thinking about making friends was the right way. Which, thank goodness, we now know. is most likely the wrong way, right? We're really shifting our lens to be looking through the lens of a neurodivergent learner, understanding how they're walking through the world. When I went to graduate school, I did my graduate school in North Carolina, and what we were taught is that there was the culture of autism, and that it was our job as educators to really be honoring and understanding the culture of autism.
And I'm from California, so I was raised with the behavioral lens in my early years in the field. So yes, I did discrete trials. I worked in a really ABA model. bringing those together and reflecting on that now, I feel like enables me to see kind of this arc of where we were, and the good intention But we must change now, right? We really have this opportunity because we know better, to do better, and bring this information to our schools, to our teachers, to our providers.
And you all, as parents, are very often have that connection and that opportunity to bring this different way of thinking into the school. So, I'm excited to hopefully be able to support your understanding. And shift us towards this idea of building authentic friendship really comes from connection and belonging. So when we moved away from teaching kind of finite or small social skills, we shifted towards an understanding of what I like to think is moving towards social cognition and an understanding of… a broader understanding of navigating social, and the different components it takes, right? So it really was breaking down that developmental perspective of learning from a very young age how to do social, and breaking that down.
So. colleagues at Social Thinking did beautiful work at really beginning to demystify and support social awareness, situational awareness, this ability to demystify the room, right? And so that direct instruction and support and understanding perspectives, yes. Super important work, right? This idea of recognizing the connection between regulation, interest, and social connections.
Yes, we're moving in the right direction. I think that this is important, and yet still, in this area. If we're not taking a neuroaffirming lens, if we're not really understanding that there's a… honoring the neurodivergent way in which we're understanding friendship, giving that agency and autonomy for our neurodivergent kids to define social satisfaction, right? So yes, all of these strategies are critically important. If that is your child's goal, if that is where they want to be going.
Yes, we can absolutely teach, and we do, every single day, right? Help kids build their social awareness, help them understand those hidden rules and differing perspectives, break down and reflect on Challenges or perspective-taking double empathy issues. And yet, I don't think that that's where we need to be starting. I really think now, as we're thinking about this deeper understanding of building authentic friendships. We're really starting with this shared understanding of supporting social satisfaction.
Right, so we are going to start where Amanda suggested, so we're getting curious, and we're really observing where that child… I like to see it as you're taking that breath. Right? So, I had a story of a child in group just yesterday, Logan, and he was really struggling to come in, and I said, you know, just see what you can do. Grab a snack, come and sit in the other room, listen for us, and just see where you are. I get it, your battery's low.
We'd love for you to be here. he wasn't able to join that group, right? In that moment, his body wasn't able to do it, and he was safe enough to say, just can't do it now. And lo and behold, the conversation turned, and you start hearing the voice kind of popping in from the other room when he says, hey, what about this? Or I have an idea about that, right?
So, you see that child who really wasn't able to do that, and was just able to share space on his terms, and then be able to pull in when he was feeling that connection and belonging, right? So, if we start from here. honoring this social satisfaction. So if I'm really trying to operationalize this as the continuum of social skills support. And I'd love everyone's feedback and your thoughts about this, because I will tell you that when Yael asked beautifully months ago, and I said, yes, I'd love to do this, this has been ticking around in my head since this, and poor Shlamit, who's my partner and really co-regulating me as we speak, was like, can we stop talking about this continuum of social skills support?
And I said, no, this is really important, right? We really need to think about it, because I think we've got it wrong. I think we start with these finite little pieces of social. But we really need to start with this idea of recognizing a strength-based understanding of our child's connection and belonging, right? So thinking about where they're feeling comfortable, giving them language to understand their regulatory system, their capacity.
And scaffolding and building upon that. Now, this doesn't mean that I'm never gonna teach sharing. I am. It doesn't mean that we might not work on how you're joining a group. We will, but we're going to be starting from that really neuro-affirming perspective of.
individual understanding of connection and belonging, where that child is available to be in connection, available to be in friendship. I love that. And that's just not the responsibility of our neurodivergent kids. Right? We're really, at that point, going to be leaning into the environment, the routines, the consistency, setting up and taking some of that social load off.
We're going to be fostering awareness and compassion with their peers. We're going to be talking about the neurodiversity among all of us. We're going to be building that really safe, neurodiverse community where it is okay that Zoomit needs to pace in the back of the room, and Heather might blurt, but that will… right? And that really recognizing the power in that neurodiversity. So I think we'll start here, and then move backwards.
So, I really wanted to think about those three areas, specifically regulation, capacity, and self-advocacy. And I know I have a little bit of time, and I don't want to take any time away from our questions or from Sam. But I really believe that A deep understanding of regulation and a broader understanding of that body-brain connection is really critical in supporting twice-exceptional students' self-awareness of their body and brain, their ability to recognize when they are in a safe space in their body. We know that social experience, social interactions may be perceived as a threat to the nervous system, right? So our neurodivergent kids have a smaller possible window of tolerance To manage and navigate all of the demands of the social world and of those interactions.
This looks very confusing and can be very inconsistent. We'll talk about that when we're talking about capacity. But I would imagine that many of us can relate to this idea of the birthday party that has gone awry when they've been so excited about it all day long, and have been talking nothing about it all week long. And you get there, and there's an immediate refusal to go through that door. or perhaps that increase of energy that, you know, we hear all the time.
It's just like it's out of the blue, it goes to 11, and I have no idea what's happening, right? That really is that bottom-up nervous system hijack of, woohoo, this does not feel safe any way I cut it. Right? I'm not able to do that right now, and we know that social can be completely dysregulating to our kids, our neurodivergent children. So, can relate in any of this.
I look to my parents more than any providers on my team to help me understand that reactivity to social experiences. It doesn't mean they don't want it, they don't like it. It might just mean that it does not feel safe. It is pushing me into that fight or flight or shutdown experience. And understanding that, giving language around that is incredibly important.
So… This idea of building a shared language of connection and regulation is, I believe, critically important in enabling a child to build more traditional friendships, or make themselves available to friendships. So we always suggest that when you're working with your school teams, when you're working perhaps with outside providers. One of the first things we do is really build an understanding of regulation, right? Empowering the child to be able to share what's happening in their body, and this is really complex work. Right?
For some kids, simply reflecting on those behaviors is a trigger in and of itself. So this is slow, careful work of building a place where a child can say that Amanda shared I'm at, like, a 10, or… I've got nothing to give you right now, depending on what that scale is, right? You want them to be able to share that. We want to recognize that we are, you know, working hard, and we can do hard things. Let me move here, because I think that I have a couple… go ahead.
Yael Valek: I just have one question on the last slide. Someone asked, what do you mean by bottom-up?
Heather Erba: Thank you so much. So, bottom-up reactivity is really, if you can imagine, we know that that nervous system, our autonomous nervous system, and this is coming from the work of Steven Porges, is really there to keep us safe. Right? So that nervous system, or that vagus nerve is always on the lookout, both internally and externally, for triggers and for concerning opportunities. And so a bottom-up reaction is really that nervous system pre-conscious level, right?
So this is an unintentional, a pre-conscious level, where that nervous system is sending messages that this is not safe, I am not feeling comfortable in here, and we will… Elevate… In efforts to keep our bodies safe. Does that make more sense? So it's a bottom-up reactivity from that nervous system sending the message that I am not feeling safe. So this is not defiance, this is not disrespect, this is not, an intentional escape. This is really that nervous system going into protection mode and trying to protect.
Ana Alvarez: Thank you, that makes sense.
Heather Erba: When the threat is real, this is a very important, very amazing part of our body. And, very often, especially with our neurodivergent processing, that is a complex… our children very often are getting those messages, and if that emotion is coming in fast, we're pushing that logical reasoning offline, right? So sometimes you'll hear people talk about that your logical reasoning, your prefrontal cortex, has been hijacked. You're not available at that point to even use the tool.
This is when we're really needing to come back into regulation. It might be just taking that break. It might be sitting in connection with that safe, responsive adult, that co-regulatory relationship. I hope that answers the question.
Ana Alvarez: Yes, thank you.
Heather Erba: Perfect, thank you. So there are certainly some really specific strategies that we can use to kind of bring our system back into regulation, enabling us to be available to be brave, right? To join that birthday party, even if it just means taking the gift, dropping it off, getting the goodie bag, and saying our goodbyes. Right? That's a win.
We're gonna celebrate those small wins when we can get them. We do know that by making social opportunities predictable as possible, previewing the plan, demystifying expectations. takes basically that cognitive load off, right? So we're opening up the gap a little bit the more consistent we can make it. I recently had a high schooler remind me that wow, it took me, like, 6 years to make any friends, and now I've got some great ones, and I thought, that's fantastic, right?
You were increasing that window, you had a huge network of different social experiences. Your social goals were met. And as you were feeling more success. they grew, but they grew naturally and on your own calm. So, I love that, right?
And now you know that you can make friends, you know that those friendships are important to you, but you have that autonomy and agency. This idea of co-regulating and being that common source, especially when our kids are right at that edge, right? So we know that this social, maybe it's a playdate, maybe it's the first day of school, this is going to be uncomfortable, right? So we are offering that co-regulatory experience. And again, the more we are narrating and talking about our own regulation, very often we'll hear people say, well, you don't have to take care of your body and brain.
This is the language we use. You don't have to manage your zone or take care of your emotions, and I will assure them. Oh yes, I do. I'm doing it right now, right? We are all doing this regulation thing.
Providing that really clear place to talk about it is critically important. So kind of this idea of capacity Amanda talked about, and it really does build upon this idea of regulation. But what's frustrating, I think, with capacity when we're talking about social and friendships is that that inconsistency is really difficult, right? So… one day she loves playing with the neighbor, and then the next she doesn't, right? And that doesn't necessarily mean That she doesn't want that friendship, or that isn't important to her, but that perhaps that capacity, right, that effort… Is not available to her in that moment.
So again, we as the adults in neurodivergent kids' lives, teachers, parents, providers. are not just wondering about the capacity and thinking about capacity, we're also demystifying that for them. Right? So we are recognizing, sure, I get it, right? It might have been easier Monday morning, but now it's Friday, and you have worked all day long.
And you might really, really, really want to go to that after-school playdate. But I… I understand if you just don't have the battery left, and that's okay, right? And what's amazing is demystifying that to playmates, and your friend's parents, and all of those. we're just starting that conversation, we're normalizing it, because when we start talking about capacity, we certainly know that we are all right there, right? We all have our own capacity, and it's silly to assume that our kids won't.
And it's really important when we're talking about connection. I want to share a couple of my favorite, just kind of resources as we're talking about capacity and teaching about capacity. I love the work of Dr. Megan Ana Neff. She has an amazing blog about the neurodivergent spoon drawer and kind of thinking about capacity.
The Autism Level Up, colleagues just have really beautiful work at honoring individual regulation and individual energy and capacity. So, the energy meter is a check-in system that we use very regularly. It takes the emotionality out of it, and sometimes that's just what some of our neurodivergent kids need. They also have a really beautiful masking regulator, which we use as a way to really think about what you're interested in, right? How important is it to you to get to your LARP meeting, which is Live Action Role Play, which is a phenomenal opportunity for so many of our neurodivergent kids?
Versus going to Homecoming, right? Let's think about that. No, I really don't want to miss LARP, so let's get to LARP. If that means a little bit of masking to get you there, and then we can unmask and have a blast for an hour and a half, that sounds like it's a big connection opportunity. As opposed to homecoming, where you really might not want to go, you're gonna have to mask the whole time, and you're gonna be exhausted for 5 days afterwards.
Right? So when you're really breaking that down and giving language to really think about that, it's not just listening, it's giving your child that autonomy and the agency and forcing us to lean into their interests and lean into their strengths. This final one, I think, is just because I personally had faced this so many times with my own kids, and then I'm booting to see him and can't wait to hear what he has to share with us. But this idea of voice and self-advocacy, and this is a huge balance that we play as parents, and I really just wanted to share this one, because I've been there, right? That I'm not getting out of the car, I hate soccer, I'm not going in there, you know… As opposed to that parent, and the parent pressure where you think, well, everybody's doing soccer, or we signed up for the whole season, or I've spent how much money on this, and all of these conflicting emotions are coming up, and I feel you.
And very often, there's no right answer, and we're gonna try it, and try it on, and listen, and be curious, and do the next right thing. But I also just wanted to give you all just some… a little bit of love and support as you navigate this piece, and recognize That if we do offer an honor choice from the beginning, when activities are truly optional, and many of them are. it takes away a lot of that heartache, right? And I think very often, we will know our kids to know, okay.
I think I can get you there, and then we need to watch. There's a big difference between co-regulating and supporting to get a child there. And then seeing the joy take off, well, that's a win. As opposed to co-regulating, and getting them there, and through the door, and then we're miserable for the next 45 minutes.
Right? So I just want to empower and honor you all as parents and educators to choose wisely, to listen, and to honor that voice, and it is okay to say. we've changed our minds, right? We're gonna make the next best choice for our kids so they can experience that connection and belonging, and how important that is in the minute.
I look forward to answering your questions. When we reviewed the questions, you had so many, so I, look forward to the rest of our conversation. And I'm going to stop sharing now. Perhaps…
Sam Young: Yang. Thank you so much, Heather, and thank you, Amanda. I will take over the screen. And not let all the power go to my head. Can you all give me a thumbs up if you can see?
Okay, yay! Okay, well, we're gonna go into part 3 right now, and I would just like to start with a question. Raise your hand if socializing as an adult has gone exactly how you thought it would when you were 11. Go ahead, raise those hands, you can put them up in the chat, if you want, or your digital hand. Not seeing many.
No, yeah, interesting. Socializing is complicated, right? We all have opinions about how it should go. We have our experience, and then we have our baggage, and everything in between. And today, or tonight, we're going to sort of unpack those together as we look at some really concrete skills, and… I do just want to call it what it is.
It is tough. Right? And you've heard this tonight from our fantastic speakers. It is tough. It is tough for your kids.
It might be tough for you personally. It is tough for you to see your kids struggle. you have a 2E kid, or a gifted kid, or you're an educator, and you're probably looking to neurotypical families and seeing things all rosy, right? Everything's so easy. They make friends.
Right? Why does it seem so easy? Well, today's talk isn't about necessarily helping you, you know, just get better, or, like, change your… you've heard this tonight from our amazing speakers. Tonight is about how we can maybe compare a bit less, and also how we can maybe empower ourselves a bit more, and do it maybe differently than you thought you might when you first got here. And I think that you've heard Amanda drive this home, you've just heard Heather do a fantastic job driving this home.
So, now I want to give you some concrete skills. I think some people who are Type A people are like, this is all great, but I want something I can do. So, I hope this part is for you, my friends, and if not, I hope I at least infotain you. So, I just want to start with an idea. You might have it wrong!
Why is this guy yelling at me? You might have it wrong. Tonight. It might be about letting go a bit. It might be that maybe your idea of socializing is outdated.
I think Heather very gently said this, and I'll come out and say, our ideas of what socializing might look like, or social groups, and so forth, these might be outdated, older ideas, right? We grew up in a different time. And I just like to say, being a statistics person, there's a non-zero chance that your understanding of socializing might be out of alignment. Right? And if there's an even slight, tiny little fractional percentage there, then maybe we can open ourselves to the experience that we might Not have it all.
We might not have it right. And we might, in fact, have it wrong. This is cruel. I'm not signed up for this. Bear with me here.
If you're expecting your student to ride their banana seat bicycle to the center of the cul-de-sac and go play tennis with their friends, that might not be what happens anymore, right? Maybe it did. I see Teresa's like, what? Maybe it did happen for you, but it's not right now, right? And if it is.
maybe this is, like, a regional blindness for me, but I live in Los Angeles, but it's not happening where I live. So… My point is that, you know, times are a-changing. Right? And just a little challenge for you is if you can let go a bit as we go into tonight's talk and we get some tips. Wait, you said you'd give me 10 tips?
You're lecturing me. But the idea here is, you know, you are probably worried, let me dive into your mind for a moment. You might be worried about your kid's time on devices and thinking that they're, you know, not socializing, and I actually would be much happier if they rode a banana seed bicycle, right? Of course you would. That's how it goes.
We typically want to recreate our childhood. That's why many people move back to where they came from when they have kids. But my point is that, you know, one, I don't want to dismiss, like, tech addiction, right? Let's just… call that out for a moment. There's a big difference between, like, slot machine-type digital experiences and, like, enriching online experiences, and I just want to challenge you to say, if your kiddo is doing something Unconventional, playing Minecraft, exploring space, incurable space, you know, that's different than, like, Candy Crush.
Right? And I'm merely just asking you to just be open to this idea that there might be more out there. With that said, let us go on a journey. Tip number one, I like to ask you to involve your kiddos. Now, this is geared towards our slightly older adolescents, kids, but this is a difficult one, I just like to start with a hard one.
look. we often think that we need to solve for our kids, and I think that Heather and Amanda have driven this home, that we have to, like, fix everything for them. We have bright kids. You have a kid with an old brain and a young body, and it's that gap that makes things difficult for them. Maybe some of you have heard of, like, the… I don't know if you've heard… has anybody… let me know in the chat, have you heard of, like, the 10-15-5 rule?
It's not a hard and fast rule, but the idea is that you could have a chronological 10-year-old with a 15-year-old's intellect and a 5-year-old's social-emotional capacity or maturity, right? That complicated kid who is interested in trebuchets and cries when they drop their ice cream, right? That is a very complicated 2E profile, right? And of course, this is, like, a large generalization, but you get the point. We have 18 minutes together.
So, what I'd like to encourage you to do is take this kid with this big brain and bring them in the room! Wow, what, Sam? Yes, bring them in the room and involve them in the process. Okay? Hey, I know you want to be a YouTuber.
I'm wondering what role you think relationships might play in building your brand. question, right? I already have a bunch of answers, but I'm going to lead you on this journey, and let's just engage. So, we want to maybe frame the conversation as something where, guess what? I think… I think it was Heather, forgive me if it was Amanda, but Heather, I think, said, you know, adults don't like being said.
Like, how many friends did you make to… or, no, it was Amanda. I'm sorry, it was Amanda. Sorry. You know, like, that's a great point. Like, here's one of my great rules.
When I meet someone at a conference, and I'm like. so tired, and I just did a keynote, and they, like, have a bunch of questions for me. I'm like, look, I need to go sit down, here's my advice, treat your kid like an adult, and everything will be better. Like, that's my one sentence line, and it's true, right? If you have a kiddo that is maybe looking beyond, that has asynchronous interests and is slightly older than their peers, maybe intellectually.
involve them in the journey, right? I'm a big fan of this, Aikigai, or Ikigai, I don't know if I'm saying it right. There's four main spheres. This is a Japanese concept, sort of like a… it's been westernized, didn't really… originally, in Japan, it didn't have the, like, make money part, but of course, we import it to the West, and we're like, how can we yoga this thing? But the idea here is, how can we take at least three of these spheres, right?
How can you take what your student loves, what they're good at, what the world needs, and find a social place in between? Right? This can be a great tool to reflect. Maybe they ask, okay, well, what role do you see leading others, or working with others, or accomplishing with others, right? What role might that play?
Where might you reside at the intersection of these spheres? What you're good at, what you love, and what the world needs? Because you're probably going to find other people in the center. Right, so I think this is kind of… I think of it like, I tell kids, like, this is a bullseye. Right, if you can think about that sort of socially.
And if you can get paid for it, cool, then you're getting paid to hang out with people. Tip number two, I'm going fast. Take screenshots. Tell your friends. Tip number two, change your seat, not yourself.
I love this saying. I think I came up with it. I had this thought once at an event when I was… a parent was talking with me, and they were basically saying, like, about all these things that their kid was doing wrong, and all these things, and I was like. But you just said they did this thing really right, and the only thing that changed was their environment. And I was like, they need to change their seat, not themselves, and I thought I was so profound.
But the truth is this. this is, like, my whole life's work, right? If your kid struggles with auditory processing, it would be kind of bananas to ask them to just focus in a lecture and do really well, right? The same is true with socializing. Why do we not get that?
Hanging out in a playground might just not be it, right? Maybe chatting online or having a pen pal might be it, right? So, parents, can we let go of what we thought it had to look like? We want a scaffold for maximum success, and we want to help our students succeed, but we also want to realize who they are. Right?
And I love that, like, age-old, it makes so much sense in academia. It's like the… you've seen the cartoon of, like, the teacher at the desk, and there's, like, an elephant and a giraffe, and all, right? And it's like, you wouldn't evaluate 10 different animals and their ability to climb a tree. Well, why would you do that in school? Why would you do that with socializing?
Right? Help your kid lean into their strengths. We want to scaffold for success. Has anybody heard of Henry Youngman? someone my dad loved, my name happens to be Young and was originally Youngman, so I think maybe it was just that.
But he's actually known as, like, the king or the father of one-liners. The king of one-liners was his name. And my dad would always tell this joke when I was growing up. And I'm gonna see if this lands with you. He'd say, okay, a patient goes into a doctor and he says, Doctor, it hurts when my arm does this.
And the doctor says, stop moving your arm like that, that'll be $75. Right? It sounds silly, but, like, we're doing that with socializing, right? If it's not working, try something else. Don't just keep wiggling it, okay?
If there's a big indoor birthday party and it's not working, don't go, right? Heather just drove that one home. I just like to give you permission. You don't have to do what everyone else is doing. I love this one.
This is a great example of a kid who just never changed. This is one of my favorite emails that I've ever received. I cried when I read this. It's… I'm gonna read it to you. It's from a parent.
It says, Sam! Blank met Blank today, and oh my word, he found someone with a common interest for the first time in his life. They talked about the blackest black paint, which is featured on some YouTube channel that they apparently both love. He is so giddy-happy, he's running around smiling, I can't believe I have two friends in this class. This is a student who had no friends at the age of 11, and was completely isolated, and I want to just underscore and make this super obvious because it's late for us.
This kid didn't change, okay? They just talked at people about dark paints, and then one day, a kid went, I've seen that video, and they're friends, right? And I… they're still friends four years later. So, my point to you is. Change seats, right?
Find a place where they can just be unapologetically themselves. Okay, number 3. I'm gonna go quick. You thought this was fast. I have 10 minutes left, right?
Yeah. Mathing this quickly? Okay, 7 tips? Alright. So, get so good at stuff that people come to you.
I am, at times, controversial. This may be controversial, I don't know. Some people might say that this is ableist, and some people might say this is other things, but I think it sticks, and I want to just share it with you. Decide what you will, and maybe interpret it or reject it. I have found… That the world is not built for neurodivergent people.
And I have also found that when you're really good at something, people get over your differences. let that sink in for a moment. When neurodivergent people are extraordinarily talented in certain fields, people just sort of, like, come over to them, and then find something that might have put them off originally. It's just a part of who they are, and then they learn to accept the whole person. Right?
And I just want to give you two examples. I had this aha during COVID. I thought… you remember, Dr. Fauci would always have this, like, Spanish flu expert guy from the New York Times? I don't know if you remember this, but there was, like, this one guy who wrote this book.
And I just thought to myself, like, this guy is so freaking 2E. Like, this guy wrote a book about the Spanish flu, and was probably, like, living in his basement for a long time, and just totally isolated, and was just writing this book, and then they were like, there's a once-in-a-century situation! We need John! You know? Like, this guy that just, like, obsessed about this thing with no judgment, went headfirst into his passion.
wrote a book, and then we were like, we need him, right? We're not always gonna have a situation like that, but I live in Los Angeles, as I mentioned. And I have tons of twice-exceptional quirky friends, and guess what? They're directors and stuff! They have teams, people come to them, people will beat down their door to just find out where they get breakfast, so they can hopefully ask them a question, because they're so inspired, right?
their names are Steven Spielberg right now, these are not my friends, I'm just kidding, but, you know, these are people who are, like, known to be twice exceptional, right? They're super talented, they're strong in niche areas, and guess what? People come to them. Now, this is not always going to be the case, and again, I know that this is complicated, but I always tell kids, no matter what, life gets better after school, so just do what you like. Number 4, X marks the spot.
Okay, this is a really concrete one, I hope this helps. For my Type A peeps, list out all of the things, like, document interest with your kid, no matter their age. List out all the things they're curious about or interested in, okay? It's kind of like that ikigai thing. And then think of all the opportunities where they can do that in public.
Your child's friends reside at the intersection of their interests and other people. Sounds silly, but it's true, okay? If they love railroads. then they'll probably do well going to railroad enthusiast meetups, and probably meet more people than they would in their room. I don't know if you can see my cool trains here.
I have cool trains, and I actually just took my own advice and went to a train enthusiast meeting, and now I have friends who are 85 years old. So, my advice is, can you increase friction and decrease friction in certain ways? I call this the double friction rule. Can you make it extra difficult to do something that you already do to make it less difficult to meet people? Let me explain.
Let's say Yael loves to read, and it's so much easier to cozy up in her binky and her PJs and read in bed, but she also wants to make friends. Well, she's probably not going to meet too many new people at home. under the binky with PJs, but she might at Starbucks or at the library, right? So we're going to increase reading friction to decrease socializing friction. Does that make sense?
We're sort of lubricating the social process by increasing the amount of work we have to do So, go places where you are interested, other people might be interested, too. Number 5. Don't be afraid to curate. I'm actually going to skip this. I think Heather sort of alluded to this nicely.
If you have a neurotypical kiddo, and you're looking over and saying, my goodness, it's so easy for them to just do things, their parents aren't involved at all, that's not your kid. Okay? You're probably going to have to do way more than you think you should, and you're probably going to have to do it longer than you think you should. You have a 17-year-old, you're still involved. It's okay.
No one cares. So just help out, because guess what? they might want to be more involved and just not have the executive function strengths to do so. More on this later. I like to find positive experiences.
Someone mentioned social groups in the chat, Heather mentioned social groups earlier. Look, socializing is easy when people facilitate. And many people are tempted to do social groups because they do just that. I find them to be deficit-based. I think they can be harmful and deficit-based.
I would rather find something funsies, like a Dungeons & Dragons, right? Or improv. I want to do this, there are roles, there are rules, and it starts and ends at a certain time, and I know what to wear, right? Like, that's really safe for me, and I can do it from home, or at the local game shop, right? Because again, you might have a kiddo who wants to go do some stuff.
but doesn't have the prefrontal cortex ability to do it. I joke about this, my wife has made me set an alarm on Wednesday. That just says, remember, there's a weekend. It goes every Wednesday, because I'm always getting to Friday, and I'm like, how the heck did we get here? I have nothing to do!
Like, I didn't see this coming. And she's like, you say that every week, let's make an alarm, right? Like, we just talk at each other about ideas, and then we don't get organized, and then the weekend happens. So, can you… Be your prefrontal cortex for your kids until you don't have to be. And you can bake in little scaffolds along the way.
My wife always says it's Groundhog's Day every Friday for me. Okay, number 6. Be vulnerable. If you struggled with socializing, open up and help your child. Share that journey.
They might see you as this polished adult who just has it together. And guess what? You probably don't. Or it wasn't always that way. So just keep it real.
Hey, don't overshare. But hey, you know, like, this was really tough. I remember having meltdowns. I remember puking, right? Or whatever.
Like, the more graphic, the better, right? Let them know what you struggled with and how it felt. Right? And I think this is imp… Incredibly important in the era of social media. By the way, I'm known for over-generalization, so let me give you another one.
One of my favorite ones I share with a lot of adolescents is that… and this, I call this my social media correlation, so again, not totally accurate, it's a generalization, but I think it works. I always tell kids, the more you see someone posting on social media, the less happy they probably are. Because my theory is that when you're truly, really happy and really fulfilled, you're probably not thinking about posting it, right? At least my own experience. If I'm, like, having the best time, I'm not thinking about social media.
So, again, overgeneralization, but I try to help kids realize that And this is one of my favorite quotes, I didn't make this up. Don't compare your behind-the-scenes to someone else's highlight reel. Okay, I love that. I want to say that again. Don't compare your behind the scenes to someone else's highlight reel.
I think especially in the era of social media, it's so easy to think everybody else has it figured out. And again, I don't think that's the case. Okay, for my really type A people, I promise we're gonna go real quick, get those pens and pencils out, or writing utensils. I'm gonna give you some actionable stuff, if you wanna take screenshots. Let's do it.
Number one, tip from the really actionable section here is, read the Ten Commandments of socializing, which is how to win friends and influence people. Now, yes, this is written in 1937. Yes, this is not politically correct. Yes, this is, you know, sexist, racist, all the things that books were in the 1930s. That said, there is some absolute gold in here.
One of the great quotes here, you can see, you can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get them interested in you. Don't we do that when we're young? We try so hard to be so important. And again, reading a book like this and saying, oh, if I just get to know other people Like, they're the hero of their story. I remember when I read this book, and I was like, oh, everyone's the hero of their story.
Oh! Like, that was just such an aha for me. There's so many great ones. I could go on and on and on, but I digress. Another really concrete one, so read, read, I think everyone should read, at least the first half of How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Context, I used to be a history teacher. This book was written in 1937. Dale Carnegie had the audacity to say, I'm gonna write a book that will help salesmen get back to work and fix the economy. The dream. I love that.
And here we are reading it a year later. I mean, 100 years later, excuse me. Number… number 8? IFR, this is a really concrete one. If you have, like, a really, sort of linear, maybe, like, autistic student, or someone who just kind of struggles with the abstract nature of socializing, IFR, inquire, follow-up, relate.
If you think about the ratio, it's two-thirds focusing on someone else. So, hi, Callie, how are you? How was your weekend? Oh, great, you did this? Oh my god, how was that?
Okay, cool. Oh, I've actually done something like that before, too. And then back to inquire, right? 33% is focused on Sam, 66% is focused on Callie. The conversation is naturally going to be interesting, because Callie's the main hero of her journey, and I am genuinely curious, because I want to get to know her.
Okay? So that's a great one. Some people call it the two-to-one rule. I like this a lot. Number 9, a couple dating ones, these are juicy.
When going on a first date, if you have a kiddo who's, like, trying to get out there and date a little bit, or maybe they just don't know, they have a crush. Look, I always say, don't get stuck at a meal. You know? Have a quick one, have a quick little day, go for a walk, get coffee. Don't get locked in.
You never want to feel like you're interviewing someone. And I also say the museum rule, this is one of my favorites, never be face-to-face with someone. It's triggering. Be side by side. Can you go to a museum and talk about art instead of asking where someone grew up, right?
You're going to have a shared experience at a concert or in a museum, or in a gallery, and that's going to give you stimuli to talk about and make for better conversation. Versus, we just sat down, where is the food? This is the worst. I want to go, right? So, another quick little dating one, and doubles as a life parent tip.
If you're nervous about a conversation, regularly get consent. A lot of our students don't know how to bring something up, and they have a difficult time reading others. So, to that, I just say… ask to keep going regularly. I joke that when I first met my wife, I was like, is it okay if I ask you your name? Is it okay if I ask you your number?
You know, I was so nervous about meeting her, I just kept asking if it was okay if I kept talking with her. And… and I… I don't know, I guess it worked. So I like to always say, like, can you keep asking, right? Can you keep asking to keep the conversation? Would it be appropriate if… would it be alright if I asked you, are you still interested in going to?
Right? Just… just regular temperature checks, especially for students who struggle to read nonverbals. I'm gonna wrap up, I know we're just about out of time. A couple… quick ending ones and bonuses, because 10 was not enough for me, and I didn't want to go renumber, so it's bonuses. To go deeper, a lot of students struggle.
They, like, 2E kids hate… no, hate's a strong word, but strongly dislike slash hate. Smalltalk? So, asking about senses, how did that feel? That's gonna take the conversation deeper. What did that sound like to you?
Right? We're going to allow to kind of go deeper, because 2E kids really don't love, like, how about those sports teams, right? They're not interested. They're like, have you heard about this locomotive? And then number 2 bonus tip is, this is really good for people who struggle with nonverbals.
If someone's feet are facing away from you, they probably don't want to talk to you. I tell kids that all the time, like, if I'm talking and we're like, oh, Teresa, great, yeah, oh, oh, yeah, Teresa, yeah, let's definitely, yeah, I don't want to talk, right? So, looking at the feed. it can be helpful, and you're like, oh, I see what's going on here. Okay, I'm gonna let her go.
You know, that can be really helpful. So… A lot there. I wanted to leave you with, like, a challenge. But three kind of big picture thoughts here is, one, let go of what we think socializing ought to look like. I think our other speakers drove that home.
Number two, we need to find what our kids are interested in, and number three, we need to help them meet other people with similar interests. It's kind of silly when you boil it down like that. But, I'd like to encourage you to maybe just take a screenshot of this. And just, you know, write down your biggest takeaway, maybe a belief that Amanda, Heather, or myself challenged. One actionable thing that you can do, like, tomorrow.
Right? Something that you can actually do tomorrow, versus just, like, that was a good talk, I really feel enlightened, right? And then you go back into the same record groove. I would encourage you, what's one thing that you can do to make tomorrow different?
And remember that this is not up to you and your definition of socializing. Like Heather said, this is a new definition, or a new type of socializing. And then the last thing I'm gonna stop, I just would love to invite you all. I have a little community event tomorrow.
We're a virtual enrichment village, and we help 2E kids socialize. So I'll put a little link in the chat if you are interested, and we have, like, this cool once-a-year event. With that, let's do questions, I think. I'll turn it back to the powers that be, and thank you for listening to me talk at you.
Yael Valek: Thank you so much, Sam. You always make me smile. I'm going to.
Sam Young: stress you out.
Yael Valek: It's all two sides of the same coin.
Sam Young: Give and take.
Yael Valek: if someone can help me, Callie, can you help me highlight our amazing speakers for the night? And I will pepper them with questions. We got a lot of questions.
Okay. What if… so when you originally, in the beginning, Amanda, when you were talking about… you're asking them questions about making friends, what if it's their anxiety that's answering for them? Like, do they really not want friends, or is there fear or unwillingness to expend the effort?
Amanda Morin: That's a tough question, right? Because I think that that takes some of that social detectivism. That's not a word. It means that you… right? But some of that is… is sort of digging down deeper and asking those questions.
What is it… And I think Sam did this really well, talking about it from a census perspective. What is your body feeling? What are you thinking? What is it that, you know, like, asking those questions more to see if it's a body response, as Heather talked about. If it's a what-if response.
I often talk to kids about the difference between what-if and what is. Like, you can do all your what-ifs, like, what if this happens? What if this happens? And then I challenge them, but what is the reality right now? So I think sometimes it's really easy to do it that way.
What if this kid never talks to me and they walk away from me? And… but the what is, is you haven't talked to them yet, so you don't know that that's going to happen. So I do that that way, is give them, like, a framework to start thinking about. The difference between worries and anxieties and realities.
Yael Valek: If anyone else wants to weigh in, let me know, otherwise I can… there's 20 more questions. Sounds like we'll move on to the next one. What if other kids are interested in them, but they are reluctant to go beyond the one friend?
And someone else said, it's about giving my child the option to have company elsewhere when the preferred friend has had enough, or doesn't want to spend time, or is frustrated, there's no backup. Most of the time, it's not an issue. But also recently, my child has been looking for more companies, beginning to ask for playdates, but she can't actually identify kids she wants to hang out with.
Sam Young: I can jump on that one quickly, which is just that, like, kids know what they know and don't know what they don't, right? And so if you are, you know, grounded by your immediate circle of kids in your group, then, like. statistically, it's not a shocker if it's not gonna work out. You know, it's like, there's 8 kids in my class, and I don't think any of them are good candidates. It's like, that's only 8 kids, you know?
So, even if you think about your zip code, that's just such a small gathering, which is why I think, like, the internet is such an important… it's revolutionized the way we socialize, right? As parents, you probably belong to two e-groups, like REEL and other social groups, and Facebook, and things like that. That's… what I'm talking about for our kids, right? Can we go beyond the small sphere and go, you know, a ring out or a ring out?
And I think about this from, like, a volume perspective, but, you know, when you push, like, the perimeter an inch, it adds a lot to the volume. So if you can, like, just try one new circle, or one new event. you're going to add a lot of exposure in different kinds of people who might then be the right person. So it's not the person, they just have to change seats.
Amanda Morin: I would add to that, too, that we often think about the internet as not having real friends in it, and I think a lot of my friends live in the internet. I just want to be clear, a lot of the people that I have met in real life, eventually, have come from groups that I have joined and been a part of in the non-real life.
Yael Valek: We hear that a lot, especially if you have niche interests, right? You're gonna find them online, yeah. What if my child would be open to friends, but the daily play environment does not lend itself to making friends? It's like recess is so loud and chaotic and has nothing interesting to do.
Heather Erba: I saw this question as it was coming through in the chat as well, and thought it was such a realistic portrayal of what is that timing, right? So often for our kids, it is about that regulation. So when they're feeling available to be social and to, you know, be right on that. edge, so… I love the idea of working closely with school teams and partnering with school teams.
I'm an educator, have been in schools my entire career, and the idea of bringing that to your school teams, whether your child has a 504 or IEP, Or even just within the conference, and be curious with them, and really just sharing that opportunity. Hey, I'm really noticing that recess isn't a great time, right? This is… and really, that other time where often kids will… find time to connect is during that unstructured center time in the elementary school. It's equally dis… you know, alarming and sometimes dysregulating to our kids, so… This is where more and more I'm seeing schools be willing to open up a quiet classroom to bring out some Legos and bring out some board games, or create opportunities for kind of a book club that could happen out on the table.
Very often, the librarians in our elementary schools are this amazing sense of safe connection and comfort and possible friend opportunities. So, really, again, working with your team, possibly volunteering to do some of that work, if that's within your, capability and bandwidth. I'd love to hear, Amanda and Sam, if you had any other ideas about that.
Amanda Morin: I would actually put out a plug. I know that somebody from Fusion is here, and they have a homework cafe and a social cafe at their… and I think that's just a fantastic way of looking at it, because kids can meet each other in a homework space, but they can also meet each other in a social space. In our school, we have a student lounge that has all these different spots that kids can hang out in, and that gives them the opportunity to be with who they want to be with under the circumstances under which they want to be there, right? So I think that's worth noting, too.
Yael Valek: So we have these two questions that are a little bit two sides of, two sides of understanding about friendships. So one says, my 8-year-old often says someone is not his friend when he hasn't played with them in a while, but the other kid does see him as a friend. And on the other side of this, how can we teach our 9-year-old son to recognize the difference between genuine friends and peers who act friendly in front of him, but then speak negatively about him, exclude him, or treat him unkindly behind his back? How do we develop the social awareness, judgment, and confidence so he can recognize these behaviors, respond appropriately, and make healthy friendship choices?
Heather Erba: We think about this all the time when we bring our neurodivergent kids together at ConnectED. So we do hold, opportunities, and while, yes, 15 years ago we called them social skills groups, and now we really look at them as, we call them regulation and self-awareness and social cognitive groups, and even within that, they've really evolved over the past several years. And in specifically our older elementary and our middle school groups, we're really often talking about this, this demystifying of How you can… break that down in understanding if people are really friends, or if they really like you, right? This is really complex, and, layers of perspective-taking, and they're, you know, nice to you here, but not here, kind of that context-specific, and we really try to bring that back to teaching the kids to trust themselves and giving them language to really be willing to check in on themselves and see how they were feeling, right? So often, I think we were talking about this when we were Getting ready for this talk is that I think that very often, just kids who are nice to them.
our neurodivergent kids might think, oh, I have to be friends with them, or they're my friends, but what are they getting out of it, right? Like, we really want to bring that back to their agency, and we're asking those questions, right? Let's talk about what, you know, were you talking about? Is there anything you have an interest? How did they make you feel?
Did they make you file? Did you laugh? Right? You're asking those deeper questions and giving them permission to really own that relationship too, right? It's not a one-sided relationship.
It is that back and forth, and then the more we can give our kids that language and awareness, again, of their of their regulatory state, of their social interest, and be brave enough to self-advocate for that, that's where I believe they're really gonna get to that. And we hear that all the time. Wow, I thought we were friends, and then I heard them talking about me behind my back, and that was really awful, right? And in that experience of hurt, and I think that, you know, Amanda really beautifully brought that up, that we as the adults in that relationship Get to sit with that, and listen to it, and validate it, and really honor that, yep. this social thing is really complex, and it's hard, right?
And so I think that we, as the adults, need to be willing To open that conversation, and not… have to have it be alright, right? And we want our kids to be able to come to us to share those moments when it is hard, right? We don't want them to be masking. We want it to be safe for them to say, this is a… this is a challenge.
Amanda Morin: Exactly.
Heather Erba: quite sure that I did not answer that question, but go ahead and go for it.
Amanda Morin: Sam said something really important in this regard, is sharing our own experiences, right? Sharing our own experiences as adults, where we've had that experience, where, like, oh, I thought I was friends with this person, but they're talking about me behind my back, or I found out from a coworker that they really don't enjoy something that I do. I think sharing that experience is something to be able to say, like. I, as an adult, misread this. you, as a child, may have misread this, too.
Let's talk about how, you know, how am I moving forward as an adult? How can you… I want to speak to the 8-year-old thing for just a minute, too. Like, the 8-year-old who hasn't played with their friend for a little bit. Some of that's developmentally appropriate, and I think it's worth noting that, too, right? Sometimes it's… you think about, like, the toys that get put away in the closet, and you forget that they don't… they don't exist until you pull them back out of the closet.
I'm not saying a kid is… Something you have thrown to the side and are pulling back in. But I do want to say, like, sometimes we have to remind kids that they have enjoyed spending time with that other child. And even though they haven't seen them for a long time, that they may enjoy spending time with them again. And some of that's just a matter of reminding them that those experiences are true, and that they may have that again.
Heather Erba: And that might be more common in our black and white and concrete thinkers, right? A friend is someone I have to play with. Tuesdays and Thursdays from 3 to 4.30, right? And so, if that breaks, or if that routine falls, that means we're not friends anymore. So again, as we're demystifying and breaking down some of those social rules or social expectations, that's gonna be clarified as well.
Yael Valek: So sadly, and not unexpectedly, because we saw this in the pre-submitted questions, there's quite a few questions about past trauma and bullying. If you've had a kid that has had negative social experiences, even to the point of being bullied. How do you coach them to have boundaries and stay safe, but still continue to forgive, and… you know, and want to be included. A lot of people seem… other kids, have anxiety about bullying, keeping them from making friends.
Sam Young: I can, quickly answer this one. I think, obviously, it's always deeply personal. It's important to remember that humans are social creatures who think. Right? So we're emotional first.
It's important to remember that that limbic emotional system is in between our, you know, human prefrontal cortex, so this is deep stuff, and it's deep on a physiological and a neurological level, and it can take time. I think always I recommend starting with, like, professional work, you know, therapy. I always joke that there's two kinds of people, people in therapy and people who need to be, and I think that's especially important for 2E people because of the asynchronies. And then I like to go to a lot of facts and opinions.
Right? I like to challenge a student. Yeah, I know you had this really difficult experience, and are you seeing evidence that this other person is doing that? Or… could this be a projection or past trauma coming up, right?
And just trying to get them to sort of categorize and realize that, yes, I've been hurt, yes, someone has done me wrong, and not everyone is going to do me wrong. And in this particular case, this person is, in fact, maybe not. Right? And just these little, like, if-thens, if we can prove that one time, we can… it's self-referential, and then we can kind of, you know, get a foot in the door and sort of build on that, and then give more experiences that actually prove the… the… the… Anti-story, if that makes sense, versus the internal, you know, projection.
Heather Erba: I would share that I've had just a… an amazing opportunity to work with many, many trauma-informed therapists and bring that into our practice, and I think that very often. We see this in school, that that's, you know, it's almost othered, and we're trying to bring that trauma-informed practice into the schools, and so much of that is giving the language to the child, and what we have found is when we're opening up that conversation, exactly what Sam was saying, right, and demystifying that neurobiology and helping them understand it, then it… it enables them, to be more able to share those experiences, and then reflect on them. So, again, that reflective piece, which so often is so difficult, is so critical, and I, you know, I think that this social autopsy is a beautiful way to really break down and really critique those opportunities and really have a better sense of Is this a possible misinterpretation? What are we really feeling? And then… to bring in… I think, Amanda, we had talked about knowing when to bring in a team, and knowing when to raise that flag and say, we really need… this is… this is what we're seeing, this needs to… we need an intervention right now.
Yael Valek: I want to call attention and ask your permission to go a few minutes over, if that's okay with you. If anyone has to jump off, feel free. We have so many more questions, So if you guys are okay just staying a few extra minutes, but of course, if not, you feel free to jump off. Okay, my 11-year-old daughter loves engaging with people and chatting with them.
However, many kids at her school find her annoying because she can come on a little strong or feel like too much. I think she may be hyperverbal, so she often feels rejected. And we had a lot of questions similar to this in the pre-submitted questions as well. How is this best addressed?
Sam Young: I'm happy to do this one quickly, too. I think kind of like the… it's a difficult one, because we never want to shine, excuse me, dull our students' shine, right? We never want to say, like, hey, you're really intense, you need to do less. I think instead saying, hey, let's add a couple tools to do a temperature check. Right?
So, like, we're not saying you need to turn yourself down, just, hey, before we go to 11, let's try, like, ABC. And that could just be doing, like, the foot thing, you know, like, does someone looking toward me or away from me? Is, like, a couple little scanning questions, you know, like, kind of like a detective question. did I just walk into something that was already going on? You know?
When's the best chance for me to jump in? And I'll teach students really concrete little things. I'll say, like, say a word you don't plan on finishing. And they're like, what? I'm like, if I… you know, because that's how we interject, right?
And if you just give it a name. And then practice a little wait time. Again, that's not easy, and by the way, again, I'm not wanting to dull anyone who's, like, super enthusiastic about something, and you're going to get more people more receptive if we do a little temperature check. So I just say, like, it's about finding your right counterpart, it's not about changing who you are.
You're just, like, testing your audience. Right? And then you can share your message. It's sort of how I position it.
Amanda Morin: I do something similar, and I think, like, it's the difference between social skills and social awareness, right? Just sort of teaching kids sort of that piece of what… what have you walked into? If everybody's sort of turned in a group together, then maybe that's not the time for you to jump in, because if they're all kind of closed in, they're probably already having a conversation, and you're… you're not… Part of that conversation, but once they turn away a little bit, maybe it's the time to say, like, oh, and actually, you know, to be able to have that… a little bit of social awareness. and teach kids to think about, like, what they're seeing from other kids, and I don't mean, like, reading facial cues and things like that, because that's really hard for a lot of kids. But literally, sort of, like, listening to what those kids are saying, listening to, sort of, like, what are they hearing in response?
And teaching our kids to say, like… I actually really relate to this. My middle child often would come home and say, like, everyone thinks I'm too much. And I would actually joke with him and say, sometimes you are too much, but, like, what does it look like if you could be a little less and still be yourself? How would that be something you felt comfortable with? And he, he actually… we did the, the spinal tap.
to 11, right? The amp goes to 11 kind of thing, so we would be like, what if you didn't go to 11? What if you stayed at 8 on a regular basis, and then where could you go to 11? Was the conversation we had.
Heather Erba: this is so much of what we do in our work with kids and building awareness and working towards that self-monitoring, right? Is really giving them opportunity to pause and think about that, and we will… we'll give kids the words, right? Is now a good time to tell you about this amazing new gem that I found, right? And so, we're giving them some of those scripts to just kind of test that water again and know your audience, which is really great.
And I love the matching your energy, right? And so, you're making that assessment and really thinking about. where is your energy right now, and what is it that you're capable of doing so you can match that energy of the group? That doesn't mean that you can't, that energy might not go up, or there's gonna be another time.
I also will ensure that that level will be honored somewhere, right? It sometimes is at the beginning of group, we find it much better if we're giving them that opportunity to do that type of high-level energy or info dumping then. But we don't want to squash that, right? And so, I think some direct instruction, practice, repetition in that safe setting, specifically for these specific needs, is important, because it sounds like they're noticing, and we really want them not to feel that rejection, or, you know, and sometimes it is just that skill development.
They'll say, very often when I'll say, oh, you know, listen to what they're saying, and you know, some of our connected kids will be like, I'm never listening, and I said, but try it, right? See… see really what information you'll get. There's some really great clues there, so it's your job to really be working on that. It's gonna make the conversation go better.
Yael Valek: Thank you so much. I'm going to ask the last one, although there's tons more. We just can't get to them all. I'm sorry, everyone.
A couple of questions came in about schools and what schools can do. One person says, I've seen an alarming increase in, sort of, ABA social thinking, expected and unexpected behavior. It's widespread in our district, it's not neurodiversity affirming. How do you get school districts and schools to buy into a more neurodiversity-affirming approach?
What curriculums can you recommend? They continue to force neurotypical norms on kids as part of pragmatics and social skills building. I was told I need to find a curriculum for them if they want me to do something. Neurodiversity affirming with my autistic PDA, or someone else says their school district used to give grades not just on academics, but on social and behavioral progress.
And our son struggled with rigid thinking, relations, and social clues. So what… what do we do with school districts? What do we tell them? What curriculums can they be using?
Sam Young: I'll go quick… oh, go ahead.
Heather Erba: I'm just gonna say, now we're all gonna jump.
Yael Valek: three-way animal.
Amanda Morin: I'm going to put in a quick plug and say I have literally written a book called Neurodiversity Affirming Schools on practices on how to.
Yael Valek: Sally, can you put that one in the chat?
Amanda Morin: would 100% say it's a great thing to gift to a school district for their library, because then I go in and have conversations with school districts. Also, I think that the social thing… I saw this in the chat, too. Social thinking curriculum has changed to be more neurodiversity affirming.
I don't know that that has gotten into the schools yet, so pointing out to school districts that they need to look at the most updated version of it can be really helpful, too. So that's… that's another thing that I would mention. But, I don't know, I figure it was worth putting in a plug for the book that I have written about actually how to do neurodiversity farming.
Callie Turk: I'm glad you did, I should have done that. I did put the flyers in about your co-author, Emily Kircher Morris, being in town December 10th.
Sam Young: That's wild, Amanda. I just realized who you are, because I have read your book, and I'm friends with Emily.
Amanda Morin: Yeah, I guess.
Sam Young: We need to do, like, a virtual version of a selfie that I, you know? How do you do that? Yeah, anyway, sorry, Heather, you were gonna say something.
Heather Erba: you know, I was just gonna, again, ditto that. I used Emily and Amanda's book in my course with my, master's level teachers at San Jose State, and it was just so well received. So I would agree that, okay, I say this all the time, now is the time, right? You feel the transformation, it's starting to come, but then you'll, you know, you'll walk into a classroom, or you'll hit an IEP where it just just kind of breaks your heart, and I sit in the car and cry. And so, we are at a point where we do have more and more resources that are coming available.
I will share that the connected classrooms model also is part of our effort. We're desperately trying to bring this language and bring this shifted perspective, which we call a brain-aligned understanding of regulation, into the schools. So we have a 10-hour workshop that we offer to educators and to teams of educators. We also go in and partner with schools and really support A shifted understanding of engagement and regulation. Candidly, it's been a hard sell, because we're pushing up against PBIS, and school districts are, confused as to where it fits, quite candidly, and so we are really in the process, so feel free, there's information on our website under the Connected Classrooms program, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you guys might have.
Sam Young: I would just quickly say, REEL… oh, go ahead, Callie, sorry.
Callie Turk: I… I was just gonna point out to Heather that I did respond to this in the chat and connect, and… Connect them to.
Sam Young: I think REEL does this stuff, too. You guys do district workshops and trainings and things like that. Again, you know, everyone here, I also like Julie Skolnick a lot, she does some great stuff. Bridges, Dr. Jade Rivera, and the Bridges crew, Susan Baum, and others.
I think it starts with me, if you haven't noticed, I like absurdity. And so I like to help people understand why things are behaving a certain way, like, why ABA? Well, it's backed by insurance. Shocker, okay?
Then people understand, oh, there's a lot of money, there's billions of dollars behind this, maybe that's why it has a presence. And then I'm like, would you be mad about preventing someone who's, like, physically, walking impaired or visually impaired from doing XYZ? Then why would you… Right, and just making these parallels so that we can't help but understand and sort of challenge assumptions. And then I think, ultimately, humanizing things as much as possible, right?
Tapping into why someone became a teacher, and starting locally instead of starting with the district. I like the bottom-up approach, you know, break through with the teacher, get to the admin, break through with the department. you know, with the school, and start making smaller change that way, and just asking why five times, and seeing where it takes you. You'll find that people are open to more conversations, and a lot of the times they're doing things The way they've been done, and that's the only reason that they do it, and it doesn't run that deep, and they're actually more open to change, and maybe more aligned with you than you once thought, and they perhaps realized.
Yael Valek: I wish they would just listen to the kids, because the kids will tell you, I hate this curriculum, and… That's… that's where you know something's not working. Thank you all so much. I can't thank you enough. This was such an engaged audience.
The chat was going crazy. You all shared insights that I'm gonna rewatch this again and, like, try to suck every last drop out of it. I cannot thank you enough for sharing your expertise in this, and for changing the way we've been viewing, making authentic Friendships. So I super appreciate this.
Sam Young: Thank you to REEL, I appreciate you, like, again, always creating really respectable, amazing space, putting in so much time, talent, and treasure into… hosting, you guys are the only event that I'll get on an airplane for. That doesn't pay my speaker fee, to go and travel, and I just love what you all are doing, and I will always show up for you. And to everyone here, it's been a pleasure, Heather and Amanda, to speak alongside you. Very cool, Amanda, having that aha. I was like, I've read that book, you're not… oh my!
And just a shout out to everybody who's spent their night here, you know, kudos to you for caring enough. Whether you're a parent, an educator, there is a better way, it's way more intuitive. And if you can just treat your kids like adults and stop listening to everyone else so much, you know your kids better than anyone else. Just go where they're good, go where they're strong, go where they're curious, go where they're interested, and remember that when you're an adult, no one cares what you're bad at when you're really good at something. So help your kid get good without any judgment, and they'll feel good and make friends.
Yael Valek: Thank you all so much. Have a good night, everyone.
Heather Erba: Good night. Thank you.
Yael Valek: Yep.
