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Need a holiday gift or some winter break reading? Check out this list of books featuring neurodivergent characters, organized by grade. Elementary Just Ask: Be Different. Be Brave. Be You. by Sonia Sotomayor and Rafael Lopez (differences) The World Needs Who You Were Made to Be by Joanna Gaines (differences) The Invisible Boy by Trudy Ludwig (feeling invisible) The Girl Who Thought In Pictures: The Story of Temple Grandin by Julia Finley Mosca (autism) You’re So Clumsy Charley by Jane Binnion (neurodiversity, dyspraxia) My Brother Charlie by Holly Robinson Peete (autism) The Girl Who Heard Colors by Marie Harris (synesthesia) Thank you, Mr. Falker by Patricia Palacco (dyslexia) Aaron Slater, Illustrator by Andrea Beaty (dyslexia) All Dogs Have ADHD by Kathy Hoopman (ADHD) Middle grades Forget Me Not by Ellie Terry (girl Tourette) Stanley Will Probably Be Fine by Sally J. Pla (boy anxiety) Can You See Me? By Libby Scott and Rebecca Westcott (girl autism) Mockingbird by Kathryn Erskine (girl aspergers) Fish in a Tree by Lynda Mullaly Hunt (girl dyslexia) Ungifted by Gordon Korman (ADHD, boy) Out of My Mind by Sharon Draper (Cerebral palsy/non-speaking, girl) Mango Shaped Space by Wendy Mass (girl, synesthesia) Mighty Jack by Ben Hatke (boy, autistic sibling) High school The Spectrum Girl's Survival Guide: How to Grow Up Awesome and Autistic by Siena Castellon (founder of ND week) The 57 Bus by Dashka Slater (nonbinary, autism) The State of Grace by Rachael Lucas (girl, autism) Challenger Deep by Neal Shusterman (boy, mental health/anxiety/depression) Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime (ASD boy) Marcelo in the Real World - Francisco W. Stork (ASD boy) 10 Things I Can See From Here - Carrie Mac (Anxiety girl) Kat and Meg Conquer the World - Anna Priemaza (ADHD, Anxiety, girls) The Love Letters Of Abelard And Lily - Laura Creedle (ADHD, girl) A Dragonbird in the Fern - Laura Rueckert (dyslexia, girl, fantasy) Underdogs - Chris Bonnello (ND, dystopia) Adults Being Twice Exceptional by Melanie Hayes Normal Sucks by Jonathan Mooney The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock Eide and Fernette Eide Divergent Mind by Jenara Nerenberg Differently Wired by Deborah Reber Originals by Adam Grant Uniquely Human: A Different Way of Seeing Autism by Barry Prizant The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man’s Quest To Be a Better Husband By David Finch My Thirteenth Winter: A Memoir By Samantha Abeel (Dysgraphia, girl) The Rosie Project by Graeme Simison (Fiction, man, autism, a little trite, but quite charming) Raising Twice-Exceptional Children: A Handbook for Parents of Neurodivergent Gifted Kids by Emily Kircher-Morris --- Additions from our community: Elementary: Hey Warrior by Karen Young Elementary: Fifty-Four Things Wrong with Gwendolyn Rogers by Caela Carter Elementary: Twice Exceptional Number One Boy by Brooke Shapiro Elementary: A Friend for Henry by Jenn Bailey Elementary: A Boy Called Bat by Elan K. Arnold Middle / High School: The Awesome Autistic Go-To Guide: A Practical Handbook for Autistic Teens and Tweens by Yenn Purkis and Tanya Masterman High School / Adult: Taking Flight: College for Students with Disabilities, Diverse Learners and Their Families by Perry LaRoque High School / Adult: Sharing the Transition to College: Words of Advice for Diverse Learners and Their Families by Jennifer Sullivan Adults: A Boy Made of Blocks by Keith Stuart Adults: ADHD is Awesome by Penn and Kim Holderness (Audio book recommended) Adults: We're Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation by Eric Garcia Adults: How to ADHD: An Insider's Guide to Working with Your Brain by Jessica McCabe Adults: Ungifted by Scott Barry Kaufman Adults: To Be Gifted and Learning Disabled: Strength-Based Strategies for Helping Twice-Exceptional Students With LD, ADHD, ASD, and More by Susan M. Baum Ph.D., Robin Schader Ph.D., Steven V. Owen Ph.D. Adults: Is This Autism?: A Guide for Clinicians and Everyone Else by Donna Henderson, Sarah Wayland, Jamell White

Last updated 11/20/2025 Fall 2025 - We are excited to announce that our new 2e Support Directory is now live! Visit our EXPERTS & RESOURCES page to find experts and resources beyond REEL for families navigating twice-exceptionality, from diagnosis to thriving. https://www.reel2e.org/parents/parent-resource-lists

Short answer: Yes, it’s possible. Our son is living proof of this every single day. ADHD AND Gifted When our son was in preschool, he could name every planet in the solar system and share obscure facts about each one, in both English and his second language, which we didn’t even speak at home. He knew everything about the Titanic and spent hours building “inventions” out of cardboard boxes: a snack machine that made you “work out” before dispensing treats, a picture that would talk to you as you walked by. His imagination seemed limitless. Learning about ADHD But as he grew older, school began to tell a different story. Teachers described him as bright but distracted . Homework that once sparked curiosity now led to frustration. We could see both his brilliance and his struggle, yet it felt like the world only ever saw one side at a time. At first, we believed the school’s narrative that something needed to be “fixed.” They focused on what he couldn’t do: sit still, finish worksheets, stay organized, let other kids speak in class. We were sent home with suggestions and strategies to help him “focus better” and be “less disruptive.” At night, we searched for remedies for what everyone called his “inability to sit still.” Eventually, we had him evaluated and learned he had ADHD. It was both a relief and a heartbreak, a relief to have an explanation, and a heartbreak because the conversation quickly turned to deficits, not strengths. While we spent two years trying to find the right medication and navigating classroom expectations, another ache was growing: our son was also struggling socially . Birthday parties became painful reminders of how “different” he felt. Group play didn’t come naturally; his intensity and literal thinking sometimes pushed peers away. He wanted friends desperately but didn’t always know how to join in. Watching such a kind, curious child struggle to connect was, at times, harder than any academic challenge. We kept wondering what we were missing. How could someone so empathetic, so aware of others’ feelings, have such a hard time fitting in? Why did environments that should have been nurturing leave him anxious and withdrawn? Then, on a Cub Scout camping trip, I found myself venting to another parent.I had said, “He’s so smart, but something doesn’t make sense. He can talk about galaxies for hours but can’t sit down to write a 10-minute paragraph on what he did, or memorize multiplication tables. How is that possible?”The parent replied, “You should get a full neuropsych evaluation. My kid was the same way, he also has ADHD, and that’s how we learned he was gifted, too. They can be both!” That one conversation changed everything. Discovering the term Twice-Exceptional (2e) The neuropsych assessment  revealed that our son wasn’t just struggling, he was also soaring. His cognitive profile showed both exceptional strengths and real challenges. For the first time, the contradictions made sense. We learned a new term: twice-exceptional , or 2e , a child who is both advanced in some areas and neurodivergent in others.  He was that asynchronous, “spiky” profile  teachers had struggled to understand: smart, but scattered. Insightful, but socially behind his peers. It was then that we began our journey to understand   everything we could about being 2e . Understanding this didn’t fix everything overnight though. It meant unlearning assumptions about effort, behavior, and what “success” looks like. It meant advocating for and finding environments where curiosity mattered as much as compliance and where social differences were met with understanding, not judgment. We began that search with REEL’s Bay Area 2e school list  and surrounded him with the right therapists and supports  because no family makes this journey alone. Environment Matters As he transitioned from elementary to middle school, we made every effort to set him up for success. His new school focuses on curiosity over compliance, hands-on learning over worksheets, and personal growth over perfection. He went from being described as “too much for his classmates” to being called “a confident, happy, future leader at our school.” Both quotes from teachers at his old and new schools show just how profoundly the right environment matters. Now, our son gets invited to represent his school on shadow days and speak on school panels. He’s thriving in a place that sees him for who he is. The transformation wasn’t instant and it’s still ongoing, but it is real. Along this journey, we realized his struggles actually helped him define and build up his character. He showed us what resilience truly looks like. When a coach once said he “didn’t have the instincts for competitive play,” he practiced harder. When homework felt overwhelming, he found strategies that worked for his  brain. When he was nervous to attend overnight space camp across the country, he reminded us  he was ready. Each experience, in the classroom, outdoors, or under the stars, has shaped him into a learner who leads with curiosity, courage, and self-understanding. And it’s shaped us into parents who listen more, worry less, and trust the long view. The journey isn’t linear, and we’re still on it. But we know this to be true: our 2e journey isn’t about fixing our son who happens to be really smart with ADHD. It’s about seeing him clearly, his spark, his struggles, his drive to understand the world, and helping others see him too, including himself. That’s why I’m sharing our story with the REEL community. Because every child deserves to be seen for their whole story , not just the parts that fit easily into boxes. And because behind every 2e child is a family on a journey: one filled with challenge, hope, and moments of wonder that remind us why we keep building bridges, one understanding at a time. -A REEL Parent

REEL's community consistently voted self-regulation as a top topic of interest. Self-regulation was a complex concept that was often referred to in discussions about how to manage emotions, behaviors, and reactions to various stimuli that could lead to a stress response. 2E children’s (and 2E adults’!) experience of self-regulation was often more complex and unique compared to their neurotypical peers. Attendees joined Teresa Nair, REEL's Parent Community Program Manager and expert, at this lunchtime event to explore: - What is Self-Regulation? - A 3-Step Pathway to Better Regulation Management - The Role of Co-Regulation - Examples and Scenarios You can read more about Self Regulation in this article series . Transcript below Yael Valek:  Welcome, everyone, to REEL Self-Regulation Lunchtime Chat with Teresa Nair. We do have a Spanish translation going in another channel, so you can access that at the bottom of your Zoom screen. And Callie will write that in Spanish in the chat. So, in case you're not familiar with REEL, we are a local nonprofit in Silicon Valley trying to help twice-exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent awareness through events such as this, and educator awareness as well, to address the needs of 2E learners successfully. So what is 2E? This is a definition that we often use from Bridges, which is students that have both distinguishing strengths, high abilities, or potential in one or more areas, and complex challenges such as autism, ADHD, dyslexia, anxiety, and others at the same time. And it's critical to address both the strengths and the challenges simultaneously—not only the yellow or the blue, but the green. And so it makes these students complex to address their needs in the classroom, and that's why REEL exists. REEL provides parent services, almost all of them are free, such as the Expert Speaker Series like you're attending today, a bi-monthly online parent support group, a Google group with hundreds of parents that ask and answer each other's questions and share resources. A lot of online resources, such as our IEP guide, a schools list and school guidance, and parent toolkits that I'll show you in one moment. We also have small paid facilitated groups run by Teresa, and we do one-on-one consultations on a variety of topics as well, if you need to dive more in depth. The parent toolkits are something relatively new on our site. You can download a kit on any subject. These are all free. Do you need to know how to speak to your school more? Do you need to know how to lean into your child's strengths? We have toolkits on about 10 different topics. The material covered in this guide is applicable everywhere. REEL a We also have an IEP guide, which is 46 pages, with every information you could want to know about getting an IEP for twice-exceptional learners. This is the California Bay Area edition, but we say 90–95% of tlso provides custom professional development resources and talks and an educator newsletter. You can bring REEL to your school to do a learning difference simulation, or to discuss our Educator Dear REEL model, how developing connection, embracing flexibility, attending to strengths, and reframing behaviors can help 2E and neurodivergent learners. Just so you know, most of these events have passed and are now recordings on our YouTube channel, but you can still sign up for our Behind the Mask: Understanding Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Masking in 2E Kids  on November 12th, and our November 6th Parent Support Group on our site. You can join REEL on our Google group, you can follow us on a variety of socials, and watch all our past events on our YouTube channel. And without further ado, I will stop sharing and introduce Teresa. Callie, if you want to… I don't know if you want to pin Teresa? Teresa Nyer:  Thanks, Yael! It's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited to have this opportunity also. So I'm going to put my slides up real quick. Give me a thumbs up if you can see my slide deck. Perfect. Welcome! I'm excited to be here today to talk about self-regulation through the twice-exceptional lens. What I think is important to note, just from the get-go, it's a complex idea with a lot of different layers, and then you add our twice-exceptional kids on top of it, and even more so. So, let's take this time to share some thoughts together, introduce some concepts, and hopefully get a little bit more of an understanding of self-regulation through the twice-exceptional lens. So, once again, my name is Teresa Nyer. I am the REAL Parent Community Services and Program Manager, and mother, teacher, neurodivergent myself, and I joke that I'm a 2E wannabe, because, you know, back in the 80s and 90s, we didn't have that really cool term, but I'd take it. And so, as I think my kids' journey has led me to believe, twice exceptionality—that's something I'd like to be. So, I joke that I'm a 2E wannabe. So, what is today about? Well, first, let's welcome everybody. Thank you for taking this time in your afternoon to be with us. It's really exciting to see how much interest we have. So what I'm going to do is just go over why this topic matters. We'll go into a little bit about what is self-regulation, touch on what I call the three-step pathway, and then the importance of co-regulation. So, that one is going to be a big one. Real-life scenarios, and then a short Q&A. So, if you do have questions or something comes up during the chat, feel free—or during the talk—feel free to put it in the chat. I've got both Kelly and Yael from my team keeping their eyes on that. They'll be putting links in there too, so keep the chat busy. Tell me who you guys are, what you're interested in knowing, hearing, or understanding a little bit more about. So, as we go further, keep in mind this is about compassion, curiosity, and community. One of the biggest things that I love about REAL is our community. So, thank you for being a part of that today, and hopefully, thank you for continuing to be a part of that as we go forward on this exciting journey. So why does self-regulation matter in a twice-exceptional lens? First and foremost, it's a topic that many of you want to know more about. When we do our community surveys and we ask, “What topics are you interested in? What do you want to know more about?”—literally 75% of the people who take the survey want to know more about self-regulation. They want some more insight and understanding. That's a really big number for our community. But it's happened year after year. So that's why we always try and make space and room for these conversations about self-regulation, the concepts and ideas behind it. Recently, we did a four-part facilitated small group discussion. That's where a lot of this material will come from. I had a group of eight parents and caregivers, and we spent four weeks together walking through ideas such as self-regulation. Other topics are executive functioning—we have another motivation group coming up. So some of these ideas that you're going to see in here are topics and experiences that parents and I have shared through these discussions, and also many years of working with kiddos. Why self-regulation and twice exceptionality? Well, many twice-exceptional kids and parents feel deeply, right? This is just something that we see, and that can lead to—whether it is deeply felt emotions around excitement, or frustration, or injustice, or curiosity—here they are, diving in and really putting a lot of energy towards this experience. Experience of frustration, experience of injustice, experience of curiosity. Our kids come at it with an intensity. That intensity is part of their gift. So without these regulation tools, it can lead to misdirection of where they're putting that energy. Instead of in their dance routine, instead of in their chemical equations or programming languages, they're misdirected, and they're putting way too much energy into their frustration, or way too much energy towards this injustice instead of solving the injustice. So we're gonna learn some tools so that we don't run into exhaustion, shutdown, and misunderstandings—because this intensity is magnificent. So let's make sure that we can help with the right regulation tools to show up as the child that they want to be, that we know that they can be. Another good thing I want you guys to keep in mind is you're already doing self-regulation, right? So this is just a way of—how can we be more intentional about applying it to our kids? Because, like Dr. Ross Greene says, “Kids do well if they can.” So what can we do to support that, so that they can do well? So, another good thing I want you to keep in mind is that the brain is developing—and with that, so are the skills. I use this analogy quite a bit: it’s the idea that there is always a lion in the room with our children. So if we take the idea of a dyslexic, twice-exceptional student, they may be delightfully involved in the discussion about characters and loving the idea of talking about who’s doing what and why. The classroom is very exciting for them because they’re having this great discussion. Their vocabulary is off the charts as they dive into these concepts verbally and just really enjoy it. But in the back of their mind, there is a lion there. There is this anxiety, this tension of knowing that it’s possible, very soon, that what they can’t do well is going to jump out in the middle of their enjoyable time. They’re having this great time, but maybe they’re going to have to write about it. Maybe they’re going to have to be in a small group and read paragraphs out loud to each other. Or maybe they’re going to have to share their writing. So there are so many other things that can be interplaying at the exact same time—feeling this wonderful joy of this gifted brain, but then knowing that at any moment, they could be called on, which could bring shame and embarrassment and anxiety. So with that becomes a challenge for regulating. How do we regulate those high highs? What is self-regulation? In our group, we came at it from a lot of different ways. If you Google self-regulation, you’re going to get hundreds, if not thousands, of definitions. So what I did is I took some of the ones that I felt really helped us move toward a healthy framework for our twice-exceptional students. We can start with something like: self-regulation is the ability to understand behavior, and your reactions and your feelings, and things like that. That’s probably a familiar one from Raising Children Australia. Then we have our go-tos, like Dr. Stuart Shanker and his Self-Reg framework. He describes self-regulation in a lot of different ways. He’s got books on it, he’s got workshops on it, he uses five domains. What’s nice about Dr. Stuart Shanker is I love the fact that he oftentimes will say the ability to self-regulate only begins in a child around the age of seven. Before that, they don’t even have the cognitive ability necessary to start the process of learning how to self-regulate. So at the age of seven is when you can start to expect maybe some self-regulation starting to come online cognitively. Let’s pause there. Once again, come back and experience this through our twice-exceptional kids. David Yun recently put out some information on research that shows gifted children stay in the “sponge phase” of their synaptical exuberance in their brains sometimes two to three years longer than their neurotypical peers. So a gifted brain doesn’t even begin to prune the pathways to the prefrontal cortex—it’s all connected, sometimes for three to four years. ADHD brains are also lagging three to four years, possibly behind their neurotypical peers when it comes to a lot of this work. Dr. Stuart Shanker starts with it. There are other organizations such as Autism Level Up, who also talk about self-regulation, but they don’t use that word. For them, they use it in the framework of energy regulation. So I kind of take all of this into consideration because we have information that comes to us—but does it really apply to us, and how can we make it apply? Because there will be this constant interplay between our children’s struggles and their strengths at the same time. So what is that doing to the regulation, the dysregulation? How does our child show up as their best self? As Dr. Stuart Shanker says, he wants children to thrive, not just survive. So what does that mean for our twice-exceptional kiddos? So, as I mentioned, we kind of put this into a way to streamline the complexity of it all. These are simple three steps—but they’re actually a little bit more complex. Hang in there with me, because what I want to do is say: let’s look at what happens when the world is both too easy and too challenging at the same time. How do we begin to even approach that? Step one is going to be to identify indicators. I recommend that parents—even in my discussion group, we talk a lot about this—start with yourself. Use yourself, maybe, as the first experience of walking through this three-step pathway. Because indicators can be somewhat hidden. But if we’re listening to ourselves, if we’re paying attention, indicators start to show up. Well, what’s an indicator? Indicators are when you start to notice that this behavior is trying to tell me something. There’s a misalignment between what’s going on and what the child is experiencing. It can be a misalignment in a lot of different ways. But acknowledging that behaviors are communication—what is being indicated during this particular time? We see things starting to wobble the wrong way, let’s say. Common 2E indicators are often behavioral, emotional, or physical. Examples of that can be behavioral outbursts or irritability. Physical could be headaches, stomachaches—things that are indicating to us that we need to look a little bit deeper into starting to regulate. A good example is an after-school meltdown. Before the meltdown happens, most likely there are some indicators that are stepping up into this purview. It might be that the child is irritable and snapping in the back, and all of a sudden, it just starts to go downhill quickly from there. What we’re going to want to do is look at this as data—not defiance. This is information. This is actually good information that’s going to help us as we take these steps to realize it’s not about defiance. We’re actually gathering information here so that we can start to help our child show up as the person they want to be. Where their energy is going is where they want to direct it. So: data, not defiance. That brings us to the second step. First, we’re looking for indicators—whether it’s indicators in ourselves (“Gosh, my heart is pounding, what’s going on here?”). That’s the second step: curiosity. What’s going on here? And we want to shift it from right or wrong, good or bad, into curiosity. What’s happening? There’s also another phrase that’s used: “Why now?” Like, what’s happening? Why now? Curiosity—not “That behavior is wrong,” or “I don’t want you to do that,” or “That’s not good.” It’s more like, hmm… we’ve got some data here. Why? What is going on that’s showing us indicators of stress, that’s showing us indicators of dysregulation? That curiosity is going to be our second step. It’s going to take us a little bit further into the experience. This is where reflective questions come into play. Asking questions like “What’s happening?” or “Why now?” is just the start. But are these questions going to help us identify some of the triggers? We might need to do a little bit more detective work. So: when did this start? Dr. Shanker has the five domains that I mentioned, and there’s a worksheet. We created a 20-some-page self-regulation document, and within there, there’s a link to the domains. I encourage that throughout this process, you involve your kids—because when they’re not dysregulated, when they’re in a state where they can have these conversations, you’re going to be able to get a lot from them. Was it something that emotionally occurred? Cognitively? Is it that, once again, this is way too easy while it’s being way too challenging? Is there something physical? Are there fine motor issues going on when your child already struggles with that? Keeping in mind, often as we ask these questions and we’re getting curious—not only knowing ourselves if we’re doing this reflection step, these three steps for ourselves—but also as we get to lean into supporting our children. Curiosity and asking questions. So, examples of some of what might be the “why now” or “what’s happening” can be what we call hidden drivers. There could be hunger going on. This is actually not my child extremely upset about traffic—I don’t know, actually they’re hungry. Could we look at this and try the HALT tool? Can you ask: Is it Hunger? Is it Anger? Are they Lonely? Thirsty? Tired? So going through some of these questions, digging a little bit deeper, figuring out what’s going on and why now. So that’s the second step. You’ve got indicators, and now you’re curious as to why now. Why are these showing up now? Another thing that I like to talk about is that there are some common 2E triggers, and I’d be curious if you guys have some of your own. So go ahead and put in the chat—do you know that there are some common triggers in your child, in your home, for yourself even too? So one of my kiddos is extremely sensitive to wind. Like, who knows, but for some reason, wind makes them very angry. So it’s one of those things that I’ll be like, “I see that this conversation is getting really tense, what’s going on?” Then I might notice we were sitting outside, and they’re cringing because the wind is blowing at them too hard. Showers can be another really big moment of “something’s going on here.” Like, I don’t know that this is necessarily about the shower. Is this about the shower? Is it about the sounds, the water temperatures? Showers have a lot—there’s a lot going on with showers. So what’s happening? What are the indicators? My child knows that shower time is coming up. All of a sudden, they’re starting to get irritable. It’s starting to escalate. Why? Is it the shower? What’s going on there? Sounds can be another one. What’s happening? Well, there’s a lot of background noise, or they’re sitting next to grandpa who eats with his mouth open. That could also be something that just sends self-regulation out the window. And frustration—when tasks are too easy and too difficult at the same time. I think we’ve seen our kids’ experiences. How do we help them through that? How do we help them show up in the best ways that we can? Boredom can also be another one. Why now? Well, maybe because they’re bored, and we might need to look a little bit more into that. So ask questions. Go through some of the hidden drivers that you know your child has, or start to be that detective—looking at what could be hidden here that I don’t know, that has thrown my child’s self-regulation abilities out the window. Hungry, angry, lonely, tired—those kinds of things. And then we’ll go into the third step. So we have identified that there are indicators of stress, there are indicators of a misalignment of expectations or experiences for that situation or where the energy is being placed. Two, we got curious and we started to ask, “What’s happening?” And we come up with a couple different things like, “Okay, we know it’s X, Y, and Z—that’s what’s happening right now.” Then we have our third step: let’s mitigate with the three R’s. The pathway will take us to the idea of the first R: Reduce. Can we remove any unnecessary stressors? Is that a possibility—to reduce some of these triggers or some of the things that are causing the regulation and the energy to go in a direction that’s not as productive as our child wants it to be? They might want to be building Legos, but all of a sudden, they’ve gotten extremely frustrated. Self-regulation has gone out the window. Is there anything that we can remove so that they can get back to creating their amazing creations? So one of them is Remove—tags, noises, expectations. These things, once again, like I said, can get somewhat complicated, but they play a role. So if we simplify it by identifying, getting curious, and then working through mitigating it through reducing and removing… Restructuring. Can we adapt the environment? Can we change different timing? Can we use different tools? This is something—I had a conversation with some parents in our group. We were talking about… I think it was showers once again. One parent had a lot of dysregulation for their child around not wanting to get out of the shower. Another one had trouble getting into the shower. So even the same situation can mean different things. But finding out—well, timing actually worked for one of our parents, because they made the shower earlier in the evening so that the transition was easier. Because they looked forward to bedtime, or they looked forward to being able to read after the shower. So for them, it was changing the timing, kind of getting curious as to how can we restructure this misalignment so that the energy gets put in a healthy way toward what our child’s hoping to accomplish. So… Last one is a morning routine, but I want to think about it in the idea that this can be more complex. Let’s say you notice the indicators started right away—this was as soon as the kid got up. It was a challenge. You might be dealing with something more than shoes. What’s happening behind the scenes could be something more than just where you place your backpack or slip-on shoes. School refusal can be part of this role. Social dynamics at school might be happening. So really, as things get more complex and as your child really starts to expand in those different five domains, asking questions, sitting with them, exploring when things are okay, and talking about what works, what didn’t. “I noticed the other day it was a little bit smoother.” “Yeah, because I didn’t have P.E. I hate P.E.” “Blah blah blah. ”All of a sudden, you’re like—whoa, okay, detective work got me to P.E. What’s going on in P.E.? Trying to understand that it might not be right in front of you, but with that curiosity, hopefully you can get a little bit further into, “Okay, now we know it’s a bit deeper. How do we start to reduce, restructure, and restore?” Maybe they need a change in their schedule so that they have a study hall before P.E., because they’re already exhausted. They don’t want to go into a loud gym. Maybe they’re already shot before P.E. even starts. So strategizing once we know a little bit more. You’re going to have to do this over and over again, but hopefully the framework will get you through even the complex times. So, once again, we’re going to go through the three steps: Step 1 – Identify indicators. Step 2 – Get curious. Step 3 – Mitigate with the three R’s: Reduce, Remove, Restructure. Now, I want to talk a little bit about co-regulation. This is a big one. Co-regulation is the idea that we are not just helping our children regulate—we are regulating with them. This means our own nervous system, our own tone, our own body language, our own energy is part of the equation. If we’re dysregulated, it’s going to be very hard for our child to regulate. So we need to be mindful of how we show up. That doesn’t mean we have to be perfect. It means we need to be aware. Are we escalating the situation? Are we modeling calm? Are we providing a safe space for our child to land? Sometimes co-regulation means just sitting quietly next to your child. Sometimes it means narrating what’s happening: “I see you’re really frustrated right now. I’m here with you.” Sometimes it means breathing together, or offering a sensory tool, or just being present. This is especially important for our twice-exceptional kids, because they often feel misunderstood. They often feel like their reactions are “too much” or “wrong.” Co-regulation helps them feel seen, accepted, and supported. So, as we wrap up, I want to remind you that this is a journey. Self-regulation is not a switch—it’s a skill that develops over time, with support, with practice, and with compassion. You’re already doing so much. These tools are here to help you do it with more intention, more clarity, and more connection. Thank you for being here today, for showing up for your kids, and for being part of this community. We’ll move into Q&A now, so feel free to drop your questions in the chat. 💬 Q&A Highlights Q: Criticism seems to be a major trigger for my child—even when it’s gentle or constructive. Any suggestions? Teresa: If criticism is a known dysregulator, ask: is it necessary? Do they already know and are working on it? If so, repeating it may just escalate things. Try restructuring: offer space to explore or self-correct. For example, I’ve given students answer packets so they could check their own work privately. That way, they weren’t receiving correction from me—they were building confidence through self-reflection. Also, if criticism must happen, follow it with restoration—humor, quiet, or space. Q: When my child is in full meltdown mode, my presence seems to make it worse. How can I co-regulate when they just want me to leave? Teresa: If leaving works, honor that. But you might also try sitting quietly nearby—low to the ground, non-threatening, no eye contact. Just being present can signal safety. Co-regulation doesn’t always mean talking—it can mean simply staying close, showing you’re there, even when things are hard. Q: My child knows all the self-regulation tools in theory but can’t use them in practice. How do we make it instinctual? Teresa: First, consider their age. They may not yet have the cognitive development to apply these tools. Gifted kids can recite strategies but still lack the executive function to use them. Scaffold the process: support them step-by-step until they can do it independently. Practice tools when they’re calm—not just in crisis. Ask them what they need when things go well, so you’re prepared when things don’t. Q: My child shows gifted traits like perfectionism and fear of mistakes, but meltdowns only happen when they’re hungry. Is it hunger or deeper feelings? Teresa: It’s likely both. Hunger lowers their threshold for handling stress. The underlying perfectionism is still there—it just surfaces more easily when they’re depleted. Address both: meet physical needs and support emotional regulation. And yes, perfectionism deserves its own deep dive—it’s a big topic for 2E kids.

Myths About Twice-Exceptional Students  Because twice-exceptional   students have remarkable strengths, several myths about them have emerged: Myth #1 : “They’re just lazy or difficult.” Myths about Twice-Exceptional (2e) Students A student might passionately discuss World War II, reciting battles, facts, figures, and political nuances with the depth of a history professor. Yet when asked to write an essay on the topic, they produce work far below grade level. Teachers and parents may assume the student is lazy, but the reality is that real skill deficits are getting in the way. The student may struggle with executive functioning , making it difficult to organize thoughts logically. They could have dysgraphia, a learning disorder affecting writing ability, or slow processing speed , which makes completing tasks laborious and frustrating. These challenges, not lack of effort, often prevent the student from demonstrating what they truly know. Myth #2 : “They’ll be fine because they’re gifted.” As we saw in Myth #1, 2e learners may have exceptional strengths, but this does not guarantee academic success. They may struggle to complete schoolwork at the expected pace or may be unable to demonstrate their abilities because they are overcompensating for their challenges. In either case, they often work much harder than their peers yet still fall short of expectations. Combined with social, emotional, or sensory challenges, and the fact that many 2e students are overlooked for IEPs or other supports - this can lead to anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, and school avoidance. Without appropriate support, even highly gifted learners may struggle to thrive and reach their potential. Myth #3 : “We should focus all our time on a 2e learner’s weaknesses.” While it’s important to support 2e students in areas of difficulty, spending all their time on weaknesses can lead to burnout and low self-esteem. Imagine working eight hours a day on something you struggle with—and then having to continue at home! Now imagine if, instead, they had opportunities both during and after school to focus on their strengths. For example, if writing is a challenge but music is a strength, a student could compose a song to demonstrate what they learned in class, write a persuasive letter to a music producer, and perform in front of their peers. Focusing on strengths helps children build confidence, develop resilience, and create a foundation for tackling challenges more effectively. Myth #4 : “2e learners can’t get an IEP if they have good grades.” Good grades alone cannot be a basis for denying eligibility. However, a child's grades can be considered. IDEA calls this out specifically - each State must ensure that FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education) is available to any individual child with a disability who needs special education and related services, even though the child has not failed or been retained in a course or grade, and is advancing from grade to grade. Under IDEA, any of the 13 identified “disabilities” may affect a student behaviorally, emotionally, academically, etc., and must be supported by the school. We see in 2e students quite often that good grades can include debilitating anxiety or depression. Children can keep it together at school, but they fall apart at home. IEPs can help address these types of outcomes by providing students with more support in the classroom. While grades should not preclude a student from an IEP, they can make it more challenging to receive one, often because educators may not see the struggle a student is having. If the struggle happens at home, educators may not be aware of the “spiky” profiles of 2e learners. Or, educators may be so focused on meeting the needs of students with lower “performance”, that those students who are “performing” close to or at grade level academically are missed. For more information, please see REEL’s A Parent's Guide to IEPs for Twice-Exceptional Students . Unsure if you have a twice-exceptional child or student? View our twice-exceptional (2e) checklist for signs.

"I don’t want to go!” cried my 9 year old, while rolling on the floor refusing to get dressed. He had been complaining about school since October and we asked for support, but now in January after winter break, it had reached a crisis level. A confluence of school events stripped my usually buoyant 2e boy of his school support systems and rendered him both low energy and highly explosive. Every morning he either refused to go to school no matter the carrots or sticks offered, or went and then shortly afterward would make his way to the office staff, who would call to say “He’s not feeling well and wants to go home.” We tried everything. I went to school with him, sat in class, encouraged him to paint, played at recess, dropped him off in the resource room, got him appointments with the school counselor, brought in our psychologist , and offered lists of tips to the teacher and support staff . Nothing worked. Meanwhile, behaviors at home escalated with frightening mental health statements (alarming at any age, but especially for a 9 year old!), stormy tantrums (which we had never seen before), refusal to participate in activities he typically loved, and resistance to even leaving the house. I made every effort to support my child’s return to school, but the truancy letters kept arriving as I waited for the school’s leadership team to propose a way we could do schoolwork at home. I didn’t fight the letters. I knew it would be a short-lived situation. We would either figure out a home-based solution through the school district, or leave the district altogether. The school blamed me for my child’s school attendance difficulties. This could not go on. I was advised by a parent that it took one and a half years for her son to recover from his school trauma. Her biggest regret? Not pulling him sooner. But, how do you know when to keep trying? How much to push? When to pull the child out? There are no right answers. It’s terrifying. Tragically, this is a common problem among the 2e . Too many parents and their children face ongoing school avoidance. When I reached out to our community for advice, I learned about the wide range of pathways families take. Often, the parents pulled their children out of school. Only a handful were able to work with their schools to put in place the supports their child needed to successfully return. Some found other options within their district, such as increased IEP support or a campus change or their child struggles and continues to attend on and off. Those who could afford or were able to scrape the funds together looked to small private schools —but often were denied admittance because the schools couldn’t support both ends of the child’s 2e-ness. Many explored homeschooling. After a particularly gruesome day, I made the daunting decision to leave the public school we had been part of for 8 years. But, what to do on such short notice? I learned from a homeschooling consultant that in California you can create a homeschool online in just a few minutes and pull your child out of school the same day. Some parents suggested “ unschooling ” for a while until my child’s trauma around school went down. (Unschooling is an unstructured learning method that prioritizes learner-chosen activities.) Although we took it easy, my son was interested in structured learning, so we did light school work in his interest areas and fun activities. However, we didn’t see unschooling or homeschooling as a long-term solution for our family. While it’s a great option for many, it just doesn’t suit our family dynamics or my child’s extroversion. He likes learning with peers, as long as the environment is psychologically safe. We started exploring options for the next school year, but needed a solution for the remainder of the current year. So, once my son was in a better place emotionally, I knew I needed to find a structured learning environment for him, while I applied to private schools. For our short-term needs, I researched as many Bay Area 2e school options as I could and learned about the many local and virtual options. Pacific Prep offers a 1:1 online school for K-12 students. Lindamood Bell provides in person or online 1:1 or small group instruction with a focus on K-12 dyslexic students (not quite right for our situation). PRISMA online school offers a longer-term, project-based learning experience. And, of course, there are many local, small, home-based schools, and homeschool/unschool/custom schooling; Bay Area Gifted Homeschoolers offers supports to take this path. For us, even though Fusion’s 1:1 programs usually focus on 6-12th grade students, they felt they could work with my 4th grader since we are officially homeschooling and they don’t need to follow the middle/high school curriculum precisely. (Lydian also offered this placement; we hadn’t yet checked with School for Independent Learners). Now that he’s at Fusion, my son is back to having fun learning in an educational environment outside our home because they’ve created a nurturing program that provides him a lot of voice and choice in his school day. I’m happy to report that in our case, shortly after pulling him from our school, my son seemed more like his old self - wanting to leave the house and do fun activities. His meltdowns almost disappeared. He even engaged with various testing protocols and admissions processes from all the school options we explored. He eventually was accepted to a private school for the next school year, and we’re hopeful that the environment and opportunities this school offers will help him feel safe, seen, and supported. I am so grateful for the REEL community , their guidance, encouragement, and sage advice during this difficult time. One parent shared, “I don’t like calling it school refusal. That implies they have a choice. We should call it self-preservation.” I am hopeful that as schools learn more about 2e students, stories like ours will become more rare. My story has a happy ending (for now!) but it was heartbreaking to hear how many difficult school stories 2e kiddos have. Below I want to honor their experiences and advice by summarizing what was shared with me, quoted from the numerous, generous emails people sent to help me through this tough time: School refusal is when a child refuses to go to school due to unmet needs that are not being adequately addressed by the school. This is very different from another legal term called truancy--that's when a child skips school because they want to be elsewhere and parents either don't know about it or don't care. School refusal and truancy have different legal ramifications: with school refusal, the school is on the hook to make changes for the child, and failure to do so could result in the family requesting a transfer to another school at the current school's expense. Truancy, on the other hand, places the burden entirely on the family and can also result in parents facing criminal prosecution. If the child is experiencing social difficulties with peers, then I would not send them back even if the school offers to try to change things, because the social dynamic is hard to change, no matter how the school is trying to help. The same dynamic will often resume right where it left off upon returning. If the issue is accommodations and the school is willing to change, then maybe it's worth another try. Finding the right private school environment works for some 2e kids, especially if they are academically challenged and find their peers. Sometimes public schools have mental health enhanced/counseling enriched classrooms that provide a soft spot to land. It can allow more flex in a schedule, soft starts, chilling in the room when they can't tolerate the general education classroom. Have an EHRMS (Educationally Related Mental Health Services) evaluation and school counseling provided. Sensory diets can help. Soft start to the day such as starting in the resource room. Find safe people your child can go to during the day. Have you thought of custom schooling? Not homeschooling, custom schooling. No one says that kids need to have all 5 subjects every day for an entire year. Your son is 2e and has probably already met/exceeded the 4th grade standards. Maybe lean into his interest areas and ignore the rest. It really depends on the teacher . If they get your kid, it's like you have a teammate that you can game plan with. Try this quiz to get at the reasons for refusal: https://schoolavoidance.org/school-avoidance-101/ Age 9/10 is when kids start to realize they’re different from others and feel their social skills deficits, etc. Good time to discuss diagnosis if you haven’t and the superpowers and challenges and bolster the strengths and support the challenges. They see and feel the differences and need to understand the why behind it. NPS (a private school that enrolls individuals with exceptional needs based on an Individualized Education Program “IEP” when the district can’t serve their needs) placement has its pros and cons, but it can turn around the school experience and give you space to breathe. If the child doesn’t have an IEP due to high grades, the school doesn’t always believe that you need it and dismisses issues as behavior challenges. You can try going to a supportive private school for a year, then returning to a different school in the same district with an IEP in place and turn things around. Getting a 1:1 aide can help a child to go to school, but they may still not do work or go to recess. You can start the day in an OT room, then the Learning Center to do difficult work (writing), which helps get your child to campus. You can try NPS if public school doesn’t work, but you may end up having to homeschool or consider residential school if things get really bad. Please please please don’t let the behavior team get involved. A behavioral approach to school refusal contributes to more refusal. You can’t force a kid out of a car or their house! And even if not physically, psychological manipulation is quite damaging, especially if you don’t listen to the kid’s concerns. You can try making going to school more exciting, for example: by getting your child an e-bike. It’s hard to get support if your child’s grades are high. It’s hard to afford private school. Request testing for your child to find the root of the problem. Our testing showed mild dyslexia and other challenges. Your school can creatively set up 1:1 reading support even if you don’t qualify on paper for an IEP, weekly meetings with the school counselor, and check ins from the school psychologist. After a while, this can turn things around.

I never set out to be a homeschooling  parent. Like many families, we trusted the traditional path, assuming school would be a place where our child’s curiosity could flourish. But when the system that was supposed to nurture him began to break him down instead, we had to find another way. What started as an emergency decision became a journey that reshaped how I think about learning, childhood, and trust. When people ask when I decided to homeschool my twice-exceptional , brilliant, messy, challenging, sweet teenager, I usually say, “We pulled him out during COVID.” Which is true, but not the whole truth. The real decision came the day I got a call from the school psychologist. My son was nine. She told me the school had activated its self-harm protocol after he’d had a meltdown in math class. They were learning addition, and he really, really didn’t enjoy the frustration of recalling math facts. He’d been sent into the hallway to calm down, where he began hitting his head and shouting, “I hate my brain!” When he didn’t settle, they moved him to the quiet room. That’s where my second grader—the most joyful, curious, full-of-life kid you could imagine—said he wished he were dead. When they asked the protocol questions, including whether he had a plan, he mentioned a particularly sharp Japanese knife I use for cooking. The psychologist told me, “We don’t think he actually wants to kill himself, but I’d hide your knives just in case.” It was March 12, 2020. I called my husband immediately: “We need to pull him out of school.” Coincidentally, the next day, a message came from the district announcing that schools would close indefinitely because of COVID. The decision had been made. The Build-Up to Homeschooling A lot had led up to that moment. Having just relocated to California from the East Coast, my son was already stressed. He didn’t have any friends yet, which didn’t bother him—but it worried the school. They were concerned that he preferred to stare at the sky or play in the dirt during recess instead of joining games of tag or climbing the jungle gym. They tried to “encourage” him—pairing him with buddies, assigning adult support, organizing structured activities. But he just wanted to watch birds and talk about them. “Did you know…?” he’d begin, and the other kids would run off before he could finish explaining the breeding habits of the Northern Cardinal. That year taught me one of my first lessons: sometimes a child’s way of engaging with the world looks different, but that doesn’t make it wrong. Curiosity doesn’t always fit neatly inside group activities or lesson plans—and when we try to force it to, we risk breaking the very thing we should be protecting. In class, the teacher taped a square on the rug where he had to sit during circle time. “He has trouble controlling his body, so we have to set clear boundaries,” they explained. They assigned him an aide, which only heightened his anxiety, having an adult monitor his every move. They placed him in social skills groups where he was taught to “follow the group plan” and practice “whole-body listening”—both excruciating for him. At his IEP meeting, the speech pathologist cited his excitement when I came to volunteer. “That’s unexpected behavior,” she said. “Most kids don’t react that way when their parents come to school.” The “behavior” was my son calling out to me and running over for a hug. That moment reminded me that * connection is not a distraction from learning, it’s the foundation of it. When kids feel seen, they engage. When they feel policed, they retreat. Academically, he was fine—at or above grade level in all subjects—but I could see that the work didn’t reflect his true strengths. He was constantly stressed, crying every day after school, dimming a little more each week. Pulling him out that day wasn’t a hard decision. Early Lessons in Education It wasn’t the first time I’d done it. When he was three, his preschool teacher told me he spent too much time in solo imaginary play. He loved wearing costumes and would fully inhabit a character for the entire play period instead of rotating through group activities. I told her he wore superhero costumes all the time at home, and we were fine with that. She clucked her tongue and suggested I use a timer to limit how long he could stay in-character. “No thanks,” I said and withdrew him the next day. That was another early lesson: * if your child’s joy is being treated as a problem, it’s time to change the environment , not the child. When we pulled him out of school during COVID, we decided to get a full neuropsych evaluation. We wanted the full picture. We knew he was anxious and had ADHD, but we wanted to understand the whole story. We were lucky to find a psychologist who really got him, who saw both his brilliance and his struggles. The report came back with a long list of learning differences and challenges, along with profound giftedness, and those results set the stage for his early homeschooling years. The Homeschooling Journey Begins Homeschooling began with a lot of therapy: psychologists, OTs, vision therapy. I trained in basic Orton-Gillingham for reading (turns out, he had memorized everything but struggled to sound out words—classic stealth dyslexia) and in Making Math Real so I could teach math in a way his brain could process. But the rest of the time was spent learning about the things he loved and leaning into his strengths . He was obsessed with Egyptian mythology and history. We listened to podcasts, read books, mummified a chicken leg (it’s still somewhere in his room), and visited the Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum in San Jose countless times. Evolution and birds were another passion. We went birdwatching, watched documentaries, checked out hundreds of library books, and spent hours drawing. In third grade, he decided to start a Young Bird Lovers Club. We put a call out to local homeschooling groups for kids who loved birds. First over Zoom, and later in person, they met weekly to share their discoveries, each week a different child presenting a bird of their choice. That’s where the real magic of homeschooling began to show. He found his people, the kids who didn’t run away when he asked, “Did you know?” but instead had their own “Did you knows?” We found a community that explored nature with us, and classes that challenged him alongside peers who loved to be challenged. We were no longer alone. Embracing Unique Learning Paths Those years taught me that * learning doesn’t have to look like school to be real. In fact, some of the deepest learning happens when kids are free to chase their own questions, when they’re trusted to be the authors of their curiosity. Over time, his learning continued to evolve. As he grew older, he began asking for more challenging classes, wanting to think deeply, debate ideas, and explore subjects beyond what I could teach at home. That curiosity led us to numerous online course providers and eventually a reputable online high school, where he’s now a part-time student. He still faces plenty of challenges as a 2e learner. Now in eighth grade, we spend a lot of time focusing on executive function and other areas that continue to need support. He still spends one full day each week exploring nature with friends and leaves space in his schedule for deep dives into the topics that light him up. It’s a balance that lets him stretch his mind while staying connected to the wonder and freedom that first made homeschooling feel like home. The Essence of Homeschooling What I’ve learned most is that * homeschooling isn’t about perfection, it’s about alignment. When a child’s education aligns with who they are, they grow. When it doesn’t, they wither. Our job as homeschooling parents isn’t to replicate school at home; it’s to create an environment where our kids can finally exhale and rediscover themselves. If you’re considering homeschooling, remember that the path looks different for every child. My biggest piece of advice is this: join as many groups as you can, both online and in person. I found this Google Community Group from REEL highly valuable. Ask questions. Meet people. Other parents are a treasure trove of information. I couldn’t have done this without their wisdom and support. Also, be prepared to experiment. You might try several curricula, social groups, resources and approaches before you find the right fit, and that’s okay! That’s one of the gifts of homeschooling: you don’t have to stick to one plan. You can pivot and evolve along the way. Homeschooling isn’t the right choice for every family—or even for every season—but for us, it became a way to rebuild trust, curiosity, and connection. The decision wasn’t about rejecting school; it was about reclaiming my child’s love of learning. If you’re wondering whether homeschooling might be right for your family, start by noticing where your child thrives and where they shut down. Ask: * what would happen if their strengths led the way? What kind of environment lets them feel safe enough to be curious again? You don’t have to have a teaching degree, endless patience, or a perfectly organized plan. You just have to be willing to learn alongside your child, to listen, to adjust, and to believe that there’s more than one path to growth. Our journey has taught me that education isn’t about following a map someone else drew; it’s about building one together, step by step, as you rediscover what makes your child come alive. -A REEL Parent Ready to start your homeschooling journey? Contact REEL for a 1:1 consultation with an expert homeschooling parent.

As featured in Bay Area Parent Magazine (page 20-21) Here are our top tips for parenting neurodivergent and twice-exceptional learners for school success. 1. Learn more about neurodiversity. Deepen your understanding of how different brains learn and process the world. The more you know, the better you can advocate for and support your child’s unique strengths. Start with this 2e Checklist . 2. Be curious and empathetic. Your child isn’t giving you a hard time. They’re having a hard time. Listen to their perspective with openness and compassion. Understanding their experience helps strengthen trust, connection and resilience. 3. Celebrate and use their strengths to tackle challenges. Celebrate your child’s strengths. Focus on activities that tap into their interests – spending more time on what excites them than on supporting their challenges. Using strengths to approach difficult areas is often the most effective path to success. Help them see themselves as capable by celebrating efforts as well as talent. If they love tech, try apps that support writing; if they’re artistic, encourage sketching ideas before turning them into words. Learn more about strength finding here.   4. Build strong teacher relationships.  Reach out early, share what works for your child, lean into the strengths-based language we share above and keep communication open. Let the teacher know you’re a partner – share what works at home and offer to help navigate what they observe in the classroom. When teachers see the whole child, not just the struggles, everyone wins.  Here’s a template you can use  and the accompanying video  to guide you. 5. Advocate for the right accommodations in school. From extra time to advanced coursework or different ways to show mastery, the right supports help 2e learners shine in their strengths while managing challenges – and build confidence along the way. It may feel challenging to navigate, but speaking up for your child is one of the most important ways to help them succeed. Get our Parent's Guide to IEPs   California Bay Area Edition 6. Collaborate with their team. Partner with teachers, specialists and resources such as executive function coaches to create consistent support. You don’t have to do this alone – building a team ensures your child gets what they need to thrive. Here’s a Bay Area Support Directory  curated by our Community. 7. Normalize differences. Let your child know that brains work in all kinds of ways and that’s what makes people unique. Sometimes kids (and adults!) need extra support or accommodations – not because they’re less capable, but because that’s how their brain learns best. Everyone has strengths and challenges, and neurodivergent people often have incredible abilities, just like Richard Branson, Simone Biles and Steve Jobs. Needing extra help or accommodations isn’t a weakness, it’s simply part of how they learn best.  Explore this list of books featuring neurodivergent characters 8. Focus on progress, not perfection . Grades can be misleading for 2e students. Celebrate small wins, effort and persistence instead of just test scores. 9. Support big feelings. 2e kids often feel deeply and intensely, and it can come out as frustration, excitement or anxiety. Teach them calming tools (breathing, movement, journaling) and be their safe space when emotions spill over. Try this 4 step method  by Emily Kircher-Morris, creator of the Neurodiversity Podcast. 10. Nurture passions inside and outside of school. School doesn’t always showcase your child’s brilliance, so find ways to bring their passions into learning. Ask teachers to let them write about favorite topics or research subjects they love. Beyond the classroom, nurture these interests through hobbies and activities – video game coding camps for tech lovers, hiking clubs for active kids – so they can shine and feel successful both in and out of school.  Be inspired by this blog  about a teen who found friendship by embracing their passion for hiking. 11. Be patient – with them and yourself. And finally, this path isn’t always linear. Some days will feel like setbacks but remember: your child’s quirks and gifts are all part of who they are becoming. Hold onto hope – these kids can (and do!) thrive with the right support, and, most importantly, nurture yourself, too. Because they need you! Your well-being is the foundation of theirs, and caring for yourself gives you the strength and perspective to keep showing up for them. Take care of yourself with guidance from Open Doors Therapy We always love to share this blog  by our Executive Director on her journey - to remind us all that we are not alone.

Our 2e learners have unique strengths, challenges, and emotional relationships with writing. Instructional approaches that work for neurotypical K–12 and college students often don’t fit this population. And with AI now on the scene, we have a whole new set of questions to address. When is AI helpful to 2e students struggling with writing? How much is too much? Dr. Gerard discusses: Positive and detrimental uses of AI for 2e students’ writing development Why 2e learners may be especially tempted to use AI as a writing crutch Authentic, joyful reading and writing activities that build on strengths and counteract writing-related instructional trauma Join us and gain insight into how AI can shape (and sometimes shake) your 2e learner’s writing journey. About Dr. Jessica Gerard Dr. Gerard is an ESL and English specialist at Silicon Valley International School in Menlo Park, CA. She has also taught writing at Stanford, Columbia, and the University of Arizona. She is the founder of J. Gerard Consulting , which offers English language arts tutoring and small-group classes for neurodiverse, home-schooled, and multilingual middle and high school students. She’s also the proud mother of a middle-school 2e learner. See Handout Transcript below

Jamie and Rainn presented on "Behind the Mask: Understanding Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Masking in 2E Kids," discussing how 2E learners manage anxiety through masking while maintaining high academic performance. They explained how masking develops from years of social feedback and environmental cues, leading to identity confusion and burnout. The presenters shared their personal experiences as late-diagnosed neurodivergent individuals and emphasized the importance of creating safe spaces where children can remove their masks and express their true selves. See slides here See the transcript here: Yael Valek:  Welcome, everyone! Thank you for joining us, for Behind the Mask, Understanding Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Masking. We have over 540 registrants, so clearly this is a very big, topic, and I just want to point out that we do also have Spanish translation tonight. In case you're not familiar with REAL, we are a Silicon Valley-based nonprofit that helps twice-exceptional students thrive in school by working with both parents and educators to increase awareness and understanding of strategies that are strength-based and are diversity-affirming, so that, we can address their needs successfully. So, just in case you're not familiar with 2E, we like to use the Bridges model, which is that Children have distinguishing strengths, high abilities, or potential in one or more areas, and at the same time, they also have complex challenges, such as autism, ADHD, anxiety, dyslexia, or something else that keeps them from showing what they know fully at school. And so, when these two combine, you really have to address the student that is green, the green part, not just the yellow or the blue, and that makes them a complex student to support in the classroom, and we'll learn about some of that tonight. And so, they really need support in both simultaneously. So, Real offers many services for parents, including this expert speaker series that you're attending tonight. We also offer a bi-monthly Zoom support group, a Google group with hundreds of members, where you can ask questions and get answers about resources and any questions about things you're going through with your children. We also have downloadable parent toolkits on all kinds of topics, from how to talk to your school, to, I just got a diagnosis, now what? We have a lot of online resources. I'll show you one in a second. A whole list of schools and how to choose a school for your TUI learner, and then we have two paid options, which are small facilitated groups of up to eight. Parents who talk about specific topics, such as there's one going on right now about motivation, and then one-on-one consultations if you'd like to go more in-depth about your learner. Here's an example of some of the parent toolkits, all downloadable for free on our site. And Kelly, I think, is putting links in the chat. And we have a 46-page IEP guide specifically for twice exceptional students in California and the Bay Area, although 90-95% of it is applicable anywhere. We know that it's different to try to get an IEP for your twice-exceptional Learner, so we hope this is helpful to you. And for educators, we do custom professional development. One of the most popular things we come out and do is a learning difference simulation, which really develops empathy, and has been really a moving experience to be a part of. But we can customize all kinds of professional development. We also have a lot of recorded talks on many topics, from slow processing speed, to anxiety to writing challenges, and other online resources, and a bi-monthly educator newsletter. And REAL has developed an educator model that goes through, both by grade level, and all these, pedals, develop… how to develop connection, embrace flexibility, attempt to strength, and reframe behaviors, and give specific examples under each one, to help you work with your two-way learners. So we're coming to the end of our fall events, but all of the previous events, the recordings are on our site and on our YouTube channel. And there is one more event coming up on November 20th about mental health. Through our Neurodiversity education series. And if you sign up, for Reels newsletter, we will notify you in a couple of weeks about our spring lineup, so we're very excited for that. And our next two parent support group will be on January 8th. And the sign-up for that is already on our site. You can follow group on, follow Real on all these different places, or join our Google group, where you can ask and answer questions again. And now, as you can see by these sparkly photos, we have two very dynamic speakers tonight. So, Rainstone is an Audi HD2E, trans, non-binary. You'll have LICSW and owner of Rainy Days Counseling, a telehealth practice serving queer and neurodivergent folks of all ages, with a special focus in children and adolescents and trauma-focused care and play therapy from a somatic and attachment, social justice-focused, and parts work perspective. Rain also frequently presents from both lived experience and clinical wisdom to help folks navigate this thing called life. And Jamie Roberts is a licensed marriage and family therapist who identifies as neuroqueer and actively shares about her later-in-life diagnosis of autism and ADHD. Jamie is the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, a teen and young adult mental health center where all identities and brains are celebrated. In 2024, she founded Neuropebble as a central location to provide neurodivergent affirming and educational training. She is the author of the book Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety, and is an active speaker on the neurodivergent LGBTQIA+, and teen topics. So, I'm gonna pass it over to them. We're so excited to have you. Jamie Roberts:  Thank you so much. I'm just gonna share my screen and get that set up. Here we go. It's all visible? Rainn Stone (they/them):  Very good. Jamie Roberts:  All right, well, we are excited to be here today and be a part of this conversation and share both our lived experience as well as our clinical experience. So we'll be presenting today Behind the Mask, Understanding Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Masking in 2E Kids. My name is Jamie Roberts. And… what are we talking about today, Rain? Rainn Stone (they/them):  Yeah, so today we're going to be talking about behind the mask. So we're going to be talking about understanding how anxiety and masking show up in 2B learners. We're going to give you some tools to help reduce that perfectionistic thinking and self-criticism. Help you understand why your kid seems so capable at school, and then is exhausted when they get home. And, you know, why do we seem fine on the outside, but then we're having these meltdowns? Where does this pressure to be… to be perfect and to… to pass as neurotypical come from? And so, really leaving you with some practical strategies to create safer spaces for everyone. Jamie Roberts:  And to just add on to that fantastic introduction of who we are, I wanted to add additional information. So, like was said, I'm Jamie Roberts. I'm in Southern California, I have a group practice, I also run clinical trainings for clinicians on neurodiversity-affirming care. Teenagers are my absolute favorite human beings. I think they're… they are so cool and have so much, room for growth and development and understanding of self and unique perspectives, and I just think they're so fun to work with. My first book, Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety, came out in 2022 and is available, and my second book, Neurodiversity for Teen Girls, will be out next spring. I believe the waitlist… I just googled it right before this, and it is listed on all the websites, which is very exciting, but I received my ADHD diagnosis at at… 29, and my autistic diagnosis at 32. So it's been a big learning curve, but I've been working in the neurodivergent space for over 13 years, clinically, and I am a former gifted kid that went into mental health and followed that very direct path, and hit those burnout spots, was the perfectionistic, and wanted to become who I needed when I was younger. And that's why I do what I do, and why I'm here today. Rainn Stone (they/them):  Love that. Yeah, and I am Rain, they, them. I have rainy days counseling. I love kiddos, whether it be internal kiddos or actual kiddos, because really, are they that much different? And, you know, I'm really about, like, let's stop just pulling people out of the water, let's swim upstream, find out why they're falling in, and save them before it gets that far. And I was also late diagnosed. I figured… I found out I was autistic in grad school after actually doing a research study on late-diagnosed autism. And, got tested, and it's like, oh yeah, you actually are autistic and ADHD. And so I now have had the privilege of working with so many people across a variety of contexts, and if I've found one thing, it's our nervous system speaks, we have to listen. And we all have a different way of doing that. So, I've… I was also… I'm also 2E, former burnout gifted… or former gifted burnout kid, whatever. Clearly, I still mix up my words. And so, you know, being able to navigate those aspects of burnout and come to the other side and have this platform to share, like, how… how to get through the hard stuff, because the hard stuff is always going to be hard, is such a great privilege. So I'm excited to be here with you guys. Jamie Roberts:  And so today we're going to be talking about, like, distinguishing anxiety and perfectionism, and how those work together, and how anxiety, or how masking then covers up anxiety and the perfectionism that's going on, and the really chaotic internal world that your teens may… or your kids may be experiencing. So we'll go over some kind of general overarching anxiety traits that we tend to see in our neurodivergent 2E kids, and how we're gonna focus in a little bit more on autism, but, like, how the autistic experience of, the sensory overload, the really connected brain that takes in so much information, the expectation of masking, the double empathy problem, PDA, RSD, all of the fun acronyms, fun, that go into why kids mask, where the perfectionism is coming from, what… how it can be a coping mechanism, but how it also can feel harmless. We'll talk a bit about the sensory piece, about how to regulate the nervous system, sensory-wise, when a kid is feeling that really intense anxiety, and they're going through those steps, how you, as a parent, a caregiver, an advocate, a teacher, a clinician, can also help guide kids in understanding what their nervous system needs in order to re-regulate, or how to tap into the dopamine need of where some of the anxiety and perfectionism comes from, how we can tap in to the brain system to get done the things we need to get done, and not overdo it. And how that can feel like flooding, and lead to the crash, and the emotional overwhelm, and the burnout, and the meltdowns that we feel. So we'll tap into each of these tonight. Mind you, like, this is a really big topic, and we've got, like, about an hour to talk, and then we want to open it up for conversation, so… We're going to do our very best to give as much information. Given that we're both autistic, we tend to do, like, a bottom-up approach, so we want to give you, like, all the base information of, like, where this is coming from, why it is happening, what the brain and body are trying to do, so that we can know what the tools are, what the resources are, and how to kind of come up with a solution, as opposed to starting with, like, boom, here are the coping mechanisms, but, like, we also need to know, like, why it's happening for your particular kid. So that's kind of where we're coming from with giving you the information, and then we'll have it open for questions, after we've kind of downloaded all of that. Sorry, my cat just laid on my keyboard. I had to find my tools. So what this will… oh, is it loading? There we go. What this will also look like when anxiety and masking are coming up, we tend to see a lot of. high-masking people, their neurodivergent traits tend to go unseen or unnoticed because the mask is so strong, or because that's been so perfected. Or we've been in social skills classes that we've learned how to portray neurotypicality and then end up burning out after. And so, how do anxiety and masking go hand in hand? Often the anxiety comes from the feeling of unknown, or unknown expectations, or often unclear expectations, especially if you've got a kiddo who, like, needs all the contacts, like, I need to know why am I doing this, for what purpose? How's it going to support me? Why do you… why am I doing busy work at school? Right? Like, those… that buy-in is really important, and then especially if there are unknowns. our brain… well, I'm gonna go into the brain. I'm jumping ahead. The brain needs to fill in that unknown, and so we tend to fill it in with worst-case scenario, which comes into how we want… trying to control situations. If something is, I don't know it, I'm going to try and control it the best I can, so that it is very predictable, and I don't get thrown off, my anxiety doesn't increase because I have full control. And that full control can turn into, like, masking of, like, I've got it under control, everything's fine, I can handle it, I don't need anybody's input. I've got it, and that perfectionism builds up until it hits that overload, and it crashes, and everything falls apart, and it starts to kind of create this cycle of, like. Was it boom and bust of just, like, we've got it, we've got it, we've got it? No, I don't. And we kind of see that ebb and flow until it maybe reaches the point of, like, I'm not even gonna try anymore, because it always blows up. So we'll talk through, kind of, what that cycle looks like and how we can support our teams, throughout that. Rainn Stone (they/them):  So, when we're exploring masking in Chewy Kiddos, I want us to kind of really take into consideration that… and understand that it's not like a simple, put on a polite face kind of masking, right? It's also not a seaweed mask. It's a deeply complex, you know, layered experience of, like Jamie mentioned, trying to be safe. And it gets built from years of feedback, sometimes subtle, and sometimes really direct, about what's acceptable and what's not, and who's acceptable and who's not. You know, kiddos spend their entire day reading a room, often with vigilant adults. and other peers who are also reading the room and figuring everything out. And they're scanning facial expressions, tone, expectations, and emotional climates with terrifying accuracy in terms of our 2E kiddos, often. They didn't make this stuff up, the mask didn't appear out of nowhere. They learned it, because they're naturally… not because they're naturally socially gifted, but because survival, you know, depends on predicting people's reactions in a lot of situations. And so, hiding intensity to fit in, or not be too much, isn't just about Avoiding being labeled as dramatic. It's really about… Making sure that you're not ostracized. Hiding the dysregulation and staying the good kid is about maintaining the role as the easy, compliant, high-achieving child, because that's the one that people praise, because they don't require too much. You know, hiding sensory burnout or demand fatigue becomes necessary because those things get interpreted, you know, as choices, defiance, noncompliance, or emotional inability to be emotionally mature and things like that. But rather, it's just exhaustion. And, you know, when we're… when folks are constantly scanning the environment to do social math and figure out what's expected as a form of masking, can't tune into themselves, either. And then, you know, another mask that I see a lot with 2E kiddos, and in my own experiences, became meeting expectations as a form of identity. I am what you expect of me, I am what I can achieve, and I am what I can do, because I I don't have time to figure out who I am outside of that, because I'm too busy trying to make sure I'm staying safe. So that becomes a tangible, easy thing to… easy thing to come back to. And then, you know, finally, like, hiding difficulties with transitions and context shifting. We have… there are so many expectations on our kids to be adaptable. And, I mean, how many class periods are there in some school days? Eight? if I had to switch classes 8 times a day, I too would be having a meltdown on the floor. This is something I told one of my kids recently. And so… It's really… when we're talking about the mask, it's about identity work. Masking becomes a child's entire relational strategy. If I can just hold it together while I'm at school, if I can just keep being the good kid, if I can be impressive enough. you know, maybe I won't inconvenience anyone, as we… as we'll talk about later, with support needs. And the bottom line, though, is masking isn't sustainable. It erodes that authenticity and creates a self-image based on performance rather than truth. And so then we get to the burnout, and identity confusion, and shutdown, and depression, and anxiety, and all the other things, but the mask gets praised itself, oftentimes, the calmness, the capability, the composure, and we don't even realize that we're praising a kid sometimes for silencing their inner truth. And so, something I want us to kind of keep in mind through the presentation is, what would this kid be like if they were allowed to take the mask off, if safety, not performance, was the expectation? Next! Yay! So, kind of building off of that, a lot of… a common 2E experience is getting a lot of academic validation. And so. The thing is, is many choice exceptional learners believe that achieving high grades compensates for their perceived social struggles. Which then creates a cycle where academic success becomes a measure of self-worth and acceptance, going back to, I am what I achieved because, well, I haven't had the energy or time to figure out anything else, and also, it didn't come naturally encoded, maybe, you know? Or it's been eroded over years of social expectations. And so, in this way, academic validation becomes a lifeline, emotional lifeline, but it also becomes a trap, right? Kids learn, if I'm exceptional, people will be proud of me. If I struggle, they'll be disappointed or confused. Which then morphs into often the only thing tethering them to their self-worth. And the social pressure added, of, you know. the pressure to excel academically often leads to feelings of inadequacy in social situations, right? I'm good at my grades, but I'm not good at, you know, talking to Jimmy Joe over there. I remember even growing up, my mom would tell me, like, for someone with such book smarts, you really don't have any street smarts. Just constantly, and I'm like, I know, but at least I read the Almanac, okay? And, you know, we can see how that erodes someone's self-confidence. I made it a joke, and I still do even as an adult, but there's still that little bit of, actually, that hurts underneath the just joking. And with the social pressure, you know, people inflate the two-wee experience of being gifted with, you know, excess maturity sometimes, assuming that these kids should be more self-regulated, more flexible, more resilient, more self-aware. They get used as the bell curve in classes, and But being gifted doesn't protect a kid from sensory overwhelm, it doesn't make transitions easier, it doesn't reduce anxiety around expectations or give them adult-level emotion regulation. There's a play therapy book, and one of my favorite things it says is kids are not tiny, or kids are not miniature adults. And sometimes we expect them to be. And then kids internalize the message of, I should be able to handle this, I should be more mature, less sensitive, and they start to believe that these are… their needs are failures rather than developmental realities. Jamie Roberts:  And what I'd just add to this as well is, often with 2E kids being in, maybe, public school settings, they're at the top of the bell curve, but then they're bored. And now school comes easy, they don't have to put in effort, they're bored, and maybe then they're moved to a school that is more accommodating, or challenging, or meets their intellectual or academic, like, capability, but now everybody in the class has that 2E, or that ability to perform academically, and now they're in a really rigorous, so it's a very big, extreme transition from what the peer pressure is, or what the, kind of, the norm is in that space, and then that can also be, like, a jarring, like, nervous system experience there. Not that it shouldn't… we shouldn't put them in those, like, more complex, like, con… complex situations, but, like, understanding that transition space, what that preparation may be, how that may shift their academic pressure or the perfectionism and how that shows up. So what I often like to talk about is the neurochemicals and the intensity that can come with and where that brain biology piece is coming in for the anxiety and the perfectionism. So, a lot of our neurodivergent kiddos. if we're talking about the brain, we're talking about the prefrontal cortex, especially with ADHD and autism, and that is often controlled by dopamine. So a lot of behavior is controlled by dopamine seeking, and how to maintain that stimulation, and that… it's all or nothingness, right? And so what we see a lot is adrenaline is a very, like, clear way to increase dopamine production. Well, where… what creates adrenaline? Anxiety increases adrenaline. Adrenaline releases dopamine. Dopamine leads to regulation. And so often we'll see with, like, ADHDers that that dopamine seeking will get more and more intense, and we might often think about it with, like, impulsivity, or extreme sports, or hyperactivity, but especially if you have a kid who is high masking, or has internalized their brain… wildness, if it's fast thoughts, if it's emotions, and they've internalized everything, that's gonna manifest as anxiety, and that's gonna build up that intensity to release the adrenaline, to release the dopamine, and it actually becomes a regulating factor, in which the anxiety and the perfectionism allows them to perform at school and manage their executive function, because there's, like, quick deadlines, and those deadlines and the procrastination to the deadline allows that prefrontal cortex to go online and do the executive function tasks. So it becomes a very clear coping mechanism of, I only get… I can write a whole paper in one night. Because I'm at the deadline, and my adrenaline is flowing, and I've got enough dopamine, and my brain can do it. It's not necessarily, well, you've avoided it, you're not trying, why are we not doing this? But how do we tap into understanding the dopamine need of the brain, and how the deadline might actually allow the brain to complete those tasks in a more succinct way? And working with the kid, we don't want the deadline to increase the anxiety to where, like. they're having a meltdown, but how do we utilize that in knowing, okay, we need to make sure the night before a big paper is due, that we do have that evening cleared, because odds are we are going to procrastinate until then, because it is hard for your brain to get online without that level of pressure. Some other things that might look like this is we will see, with the increase of adrenaline, it might also be where self-harm comes into the conversation, or pain regulation, because when the body experiences pain, it releases adrenaline. And adrenaline releases dopamine. So a lot of our kids, especially middle school, high school, when everything is feeling like too much, might redirect to a way in which the body knows more what to do with physical pain than emotional pain. And then it releases the adrenaline from the injury to release the dopamine, and it's regulating for a minute. And then the pressures build again. And so understanding why some of this is happening, and how it is, like, a form of self-medicating and a coping mechanism, and not shaming it, but redirecting it and utilizing it for what purpose it is, of that This has served you, and these are the ways it has worked, and how can we switch it so it's not causing harm, but use it with intentionality? I've now allowed myself… I used to beat myself up about doing presentations the night before or the morning of something being due, and now I set deadlines, and if there's a deadline, I will do it right before the deadline, but I've created the space in my schedule and given myself that permission that I'm allowed to do it. Because I know that's when it's gonna happen, whereas the hep before. I would be constantly in my head, why aren't you working on it? You need to be doing that. Why are you avoiding it? This is so unprofessional. You should know better. It's been years. Why can't you figure this out? And there's just, like, this heavy pressure of, like, well, then I'm faking it in front of everybody as this great professional, but I haven't done it yet. But now that I've allowed myself and understand how my brain processes that information, knowing that those deadlines help release the chemicals in my brain to do the tests. Has shifted from shame to acceptance. So some ways that you can also work with the brain chemistry to support your… your kids. and more… I don't want to say healthy and unhealthy, but, like, more adaptive ways that might be less harm-causing, so we focus on, like, a harm reduction route. We don't want to do all or nothing, right? Because then that also creates perfectionism. If, like, it's one time of, like, I'm not allowed to have meltdowns anymore because I get in trouble for whatever reason. The expectation that a neurodivergent person is not going to have a meltdown ever again is an automatic fail. So if we can create those stepping stones along the way of, like, did the intensity change? Did the duration change? Did the level of impact change? When were you able to speak about it? Those are all achievements, and they're gonna change differently depending on the situation. So we want to work on that harm reduction of, like, maybe the perfectionism's not going to go away. But how can we work with the perfectionism, or how can we decrease it to a place in which it is manageable? So sensory is a great way to work with the body to help regulate the nervous system, because that's what we're seeing. That's… the masking is protecting the nervous system. The perfectionism is a result of the nervous system feeling out of control. So sensory rise, vestibular, which has to do a kind of balance, so that's where we'll see the stimming, like, in rocking. So if rocking is helpful, if swinging is helpful, the trampoline can be really good. And maybe your kid studies better on the trampoline, or while they're on a swing, or they're feeling upset, and it's like, you know what, we're gonna go to the park, and we're gonna swing it out, and we're gonna come back. And change this depending on their age and their interest, or whatever it is, but giving that body motion. Right? Because motion and movement also creates dopamine, which will help regulate. if they're sensory-seeking, deep pressure, so whether that's, like, a squeeze, or a weighted blanket, or sour candy, or maybe it's loud music, something that can help redirect the nervous system. Some of us, sometimes when we're on the ADHD side, we need the jolt to our nervous system to kind of be like, oh, okay, I'm back here right now. can be helpful for those, like, sensory seekers, so it's gonna be different for each person, it's gonna be different in different situations. If I'm emotionally overstimulated, I'm gonna need something different than when I'm stressed out overstimulated, right? So, working with your kid and your family, figuring out As best we can about what are the different needs in different situations, so that we can start identifying that for that regulation piece. Pain regulation is also very common for autistics and ADHDers. Because, again, pain, adrenaline, dopamine, regulation, right? There's a lot of ways that adults are allowed to use pain to regulate that kids are not allowed. If you think about… Exercising. Marathons! There's been a whole bunch of posts about marathons lately. That looks so painful, but it brings people so much joy to run a marathon, right? That's pain regulation. That is a dopamine flood. Exercising that intensity, wearing heels, and pain is beauty, or beauty is pain, like, that is a way. Tattoos, piercings, a lot of kink spaces, like, pain is a piece of regulating an adult are allowed to partake in that in ways that kids aren't. So how do we find ways that pain can be used in a very controlled and safe way? There are fidgets called ouchies, and they have, like, spikes on them. that don't break the skin, but cause that sharpness. So think of, like, a sharp rock where you can, like, squeeze it and you can feel it in your palm. That can kind of bring a little bit of that sensation. An ice pack, especially if an ice pack goes on, like, the polyvagal nerve, that can help reset the nervous system. Exercise, a tight squeeze. Any of those things that can help, like, jolt the nervous system. If they're more of, like, a soothing kid, they might need something really soft, or a squishmallow, or a furry animal. Decrease the lighting, soft music. What is… do we need to reduce all of the stimulation? Because sometimes there's just too much, and we need to reduce it. And then music. If you listen to music at 152 beats per minute, it actually is stimulating enough for the ADHD brain that it can lock in focus. So you can find playlists on all of the things that are 152 BPMs. and pick the one that fits the genre you like, whether it's music, lyrics, or no lyrics. But I also like the idea of, like, pavlov-ing to, like, a soundtrack. So I have two albums. that with that album, I only listen to that album when I need to focus, and when that album is on, work mode starts. And I've been doing this for, like, 15 years now. That when… those are the song… the albums I use, and I can turn it on, and I know I have 47 minutes that I'm gonna zone in, and then I might put it on repeat 3 times, so, like, really creating, like, those spaces when they do need to focus, or when they do need to relax. Some activities that go along with that can be, For helping with the stimulation piece of the… what's going on with the brain to release the dopamine. body doubling and parallel play, so you have another person to co-regulate with you, even if that's just they're doing homework at the kitchen table, and you're making dinner. Or you're sitting next to them doing bills, and they're doing homework. So it's just kind of in that same space, it doesn't have to necessarily be interacting. time blocking, so that their brain can predict and anticipate how long they have to do stuff. Some… some brains are different, so it's like, are we doing… do I have to finish all of math right now? Or do I need to do math for the next hour? Right? And that can be different for the nervous system to be able to expect how long they're working on something. It doesn't mean maybe they're done for the night, but it's like, hey, in one hour, you get a break, versus once you do all the 95 problems, you get a break, because that can feel forever away. Dancing, movement, exercise, all of that is good for the nervous system. Fun fact, coloring lights up the same part of the brain as meditating. So, if you have a kid that can't sit still and meditate, because I don't know who can, coloring, or art, or doodling. gives that singular focus and helps regulate that part of the brain. Like I was already saying, like, work with the deadline pressure as opposed to shaming around it. utilize special interests and gamify things. So if there are specific tasks that are very mundane and boring, or busy work from school they just don't want to do, how do we gamify it? How do we add a reward to it? How do we associate it with their special interests so that the motivation can kind of build up into it? So these are ways we can kind of hack the dopamine part of the brain to help regulate, but also to utilize focus or motivation in those spaces. Whew, that's a lot of words. So here's what we start to see if some of these supports aren't in place. This is a timeline that I've kind of put together from clinical experience over the last, like, 15 years with teens, but also in the research. Jamie Roberts:  So what I start to see… With kids is about 4th, 5th grade, the anxiety starts to increase. They start to be a little bit more aware of the social differences, or the social pressures, or the importance of grades, or different dynamics, and become more self-aware of that, and maybe self-critical. So the anxiety starts to ramp up. By 5th, 6th grade, the depression might start to creep in of feeling like, I'm too much, or I'm not enough, or I'm working on this and it's not being seen, or will things ever change? And we start to see the depression kind of build up then. By 6th, 7th grade, we'll see some more of the intensity of masking, and that's where we might see self-harm, and that might be with eating disorders, that might be with physical injury, but they're starting to self-medicate and figure out, how can I control this situation? It's feeling like too much. And that might also be… that's often where we see, kids start coming into therapy in those middle school years, or going to higher levels of care, like an IOP… an intensive outpatient program or a partial hospitalization. So by 7th, 8th grade, this might look like, suicidal ideation. Maybe not attempts, but the thoughts might start popping in about, like, will it always be like this? Will it ever change? This feels like too much. You might be seeing the burnout, you might start seeing anger, you might start seeing reactivity. And… if that keeps boiling over, we tend to see a huge crash by 9th, 10th grade. And that might be not caring about school anymore, or it might be distancing from peers, or it might be just, like, constant… maybe they're still perfectionistic about school, but you're seeing burn up constantly, or their ability to maintain the expectations starts to kind of shake a little bit. So this is why I think it is so important to be aware of some of these signs. earlier on. So that we can, when the anxiety first pops up, let's start addressing it so that it doesn't develop to this same degree in depth over this timeline, and we're not coming in in the 9th grade and crash out. So this is something I also pay attention to if I have, like, a 15-year-old come in who's never been diagnosed, and we look back and we see this timeline is there, we immediately go in with that assessment for a neurodevelopmental difference. So I like to share this. You can kind of see, like, where is my kid on here? Is this the pattern we're going with? Is this changeable? Where can we interject and kind of bring in more resources? Rainn Stone (they/them):  So we've talked a little bit about, kind of, where perfectionism comes from, and the neurodevelop… neurodevelopment… neurobiological aspects of it. Let's unpack perfectionism a little bit itself. And so, when we were talking about this, a term that came up is the 150% effort phenomenon. Of, you know, a lot of times 2E learners feel like they have to consistently put in 150% effort to keep up with expectations, which then makes 100% effort feel inadequate and leads to burnout. And… and that comes from, like, 2E kids learn to maintain their identity, their safety, their relationships, like we've talked about, through perfection, through high achievement. And so, they feel like they need to operate oftentimes at 150% just to feel average and make up, so will you, for their lack of social abilities, or books, or street smarts, whatever. And so their baseline becomes overextension. They just don't even know what 100% feels like anymore. I remember it being, you know, an undergrad and even in high school. I had teachers who would be like, I don't know how you do it, or how you're, you know, taking so many classes, or whatever, and I'm like, well, I… I don't know, it's just normal for me at this point, because taking any less would feel like failing. It would feel like just being average. An average is never acceptable. And, and so that really also comes down to a fear of failure, not just disappointment, but obliteration, basically. If you've built your entire identity around being capable, mistakes become existential, right? They threaten the only stable part of your self-concept, because if your self-concept is based on what you're achieving and based on your other people's perceptions of you, it's going to be constantly evolving. Grades are very tangible, right? we can see, oh, I'm an all-A student, and, like, kids get awards for that! And no wonder it becomes such a big part of identity. And no wonder it becomes such existential. Who am I outside of being a honor roll? And so that can create chronic anxiety avoidance, and sometimes even total refusal to try, unless success is guaranteed, because I don't want to make… mess up, I don't want people to know that I can't do everything, so I'm only going to do the things I'm really, really good at. And then if we make a mistake on something we're good at, oh, I can't do that anymore. And we can see how the world becomes a lot smaller over time. And then there's also this recognition-seeking, and I want to be clear, this is not about vanity at all. Oftentimes, kiddos place… oftentimes, getting recognition… getting recognition is one of the most consistent places that they receive positive emotional feedback. When kids learn to communicate through accomplishment, or the adults learn to communicate through accomplishment as well, because let's be real, as adults, we do place expectations on our kiddos, unintentionally or intentionally. then accomplishment becomes the primary language for love or pride, and then we, you know, it gets equated with, like, stability and belonging. Perfectionism is never about the task, it's about self-preservation. It's about feeling like, if I falter, I'll be seen differently, or I might be loved differently, whether or not that's been proven. And so, as adults of kiddos, we have to be really careful not to, number one, confuse performance with well-being, and number one… and number two, to understand that When we say, give it your all, well, sometimes kids are gonna think, give it your all means give it your all and then some. Like, 150%. So, underneath the perfectionism comes a lot of pressure, and something that's a very common experience in neurodivergent folks is rejection-sensitive dysphoria. Rejection-sensitive dysphoria is where real or perceived rejection, mistakes, anything like that. Feel really, really intense to a neurodivergent nervous system. And very unsafe. Bad grades can lead to overwhelming stress and a fear of social rejection among peers, and the RSD kicks in, I'm not good enough, I'm never going to be good enough. See? I don't deserve people to care about me. And this creates a cycle where they push past capacity, burn out, crash, hide the crash, mask harder, repeat, because of the shame created from crashing. Even if we haven't crashed and we've just, you know, been a normal teenager, that cycle still repeats. And so by adolescence, a lot of teens are so terrified of disappointing others. that they, you know, start to engage in academic avoidance, procrastination, shutdown, panic. I just can't do it at all if I can't do it perfect, which then adults can misinterpret as laziness or irresponsibility, when in fact, avoidance is protective. Avoidance says, if I can't guarantee perfection, I'm not gonna do it. Because I don't want people to see my vulnerabilities, because vulnerability can feel really, really unsafe. And again, this is just a nervous system overwhelmed by expectation, not a lack of motivation. So, what do we, like, do about that, I guess? So, another… thing that comes along… well, I gotta back up a second. PDA! My ADHD got ahead of me. So, PDA is another thing that goes along with 2E learners a lot. So, a definition I like to use of PDA is a nervous system response where everyday demands feel threatening and autonomy becomes the primary safety need. Meaning, in simpler terms. I want to direct my own life, and if I'm not directing my own life and what I want, even… then… It doesn't feel safe. And so that can look a lot like avoiding, if not perfect. Like we've talked about, also justice-driven avoidance. I've talked to so many of my clients, and my own self, of, like, things that I've just not done because I didn't understand why the rules were the rules, or why I had to do it. Busy work. I see this a lot with my two-week kids, like, why do I have to do this? I already know this information. I don't need to prove this to you. Showing your work on a paper, that can also be an example of PDA. Like, why do I have to show you my work? I did it in my head. Well, because that's an expectation, but doesn't seem just. It's also important to remember that motivation is not equal to initiation. So, somebody can have all of the motivation in the world and want to do well. If I had to say, all of my clients have all the motivation in the world, for the most part, and they want to do well internally, they just don't have the initiation to get started. And that initiation is the nervous system's response, not the value-based motivation. We can value something, but not be in the nervous system place to be able to get started. And then also, along with that, you know, languaging can feel like a demand. If we tell a kid, you have to do this, you know, there's… so many demands on kids in general, but especially for 2E kids, who then are perfectionists, taking every demand as the extreme, I have to do 150%, Everything just gets really overwhelming. So, some ways that we can help with task avoidance is, number one, honor the neurodivergent justice system. Validate fairness instincts, offer transparency on why expectations are expectations. Most of the time, if a neurodivergent can understand it, we're probably going to be way more on board with it. So offer transparency and collaboration. You know, if your 2E learner is like, this doesn't make sense to me, and here's why, don't just shut it down. Collaborate. Help me understand why that doesn't make sense. Where are you coming from? What values are showing up for you? Lower the demand if we need to, soften the expectations, remove the urgency. So much of our world and our society just feels so urgent all the time. I often say, like, my skin feels like it's on fire, and there's always somebody that needs something. If we feel that way as adults with fully formed brains and a nervous system that has somewhat had enough time to learn what to do with it. imagine how our tiny ones feel, and their brains are not fully formed, and they are still learning many, many things. Does that mean that they don't know things? No, that means that the biggest thing they're still forming is emotion regulation. And create spacious pacing. You know, Jamie talked about earlier working with your brain with deadlines instead of, you know, against it. Supporting initiation, start with tiny entry points. Hey, can we do one problem on this math assignment? hey, what would it be like to just go get our backpack from our room? We don't have to do anything else right now. With online school, you know, hey, I've noticed sometimes you forget about your schoolwork. Can we bookmark that website, just so that it's, like, on the front of your mind? oh my gosh, I got these really cool stickers, do you want to, like, put together a calendar and see how fun we can make it? So, find the tiny little entry points, and pair that with co-regulation and sensory activation, going back to those neurochemicals. Use PDA, safe languaging, you know, making observations. I've noticed this. I wonder what it would be like if we did this, not, hey, you need to do this. That just keeps the brain from shutting down. It seems like such a small language shift, but it really does completely change how the nervous system responds to demands. And offering curiosity. You know, behind every… behind every PDA reaction, behind every RSD reaction, is a nervous system saying, I have a need. And that's helping to restore autonomy, providing choices, flexibility, alternatives, and escape routes. You know, sometimes I… I told one of my clients recently, I said, I just want you to try doing this for 5 minutes. And after 5 minutes, you hate it completely, and you cannot do it, okay. You just gotta give it 5 minutes. And oftentimes, it's the initial hurdle of, oh, it's like the monster under the bed. If we look under the bed, we realize the monster may be not as scary as we thought it was gonna be in the first place. Caity:  That's inside out. Caity:  Silly. Jamie Roberts:  I love that. I often say to my clients, like, let's just do an experiment. Like, it might be silly, it might be cringe, but, like, let's just do an experiment and see what happens. And that'll give us more information to know if this is going to be a fit for you or not. Which goes along with, like, how do we reframe perfectionism, and how do we work with it versus against it, and lowering some of that, like, intensity for the demands. So, I love this, but practice makes better. Instead of practice makes perfect, right? Because we… Perfect's not achievable. It's not real, it doesn't exist. But, you know what? Like, we do have to practice things. That's why we have homework. We want to get better at stuff, and we want to improve. But we're going to constantly be improving. That's what… part of what learning is. So, with practicing… practice makes better. We're emphasizing the growth that allows the individual to focus on the progress, as opposed to the perfection or the outcome. And especially if we've got some all-or-nothing thinkers that might be really rigid in what the expectation is, we want to be introducing those steps along the way, and not just celebrating, you've got the A on the test, or we got the A on the grades, or you finally turned in all of your homework assignments, but acknowledging the effort that goes into that. oh, you got started, great job! Hey, you want a snack while you're working? Awesome, like, I'm so proud of you for doing this piece of acknowledging the effort as much as or more than the actual accomplishment, right? Because we also have some, like, delayed gratification… delayed gratification can be real hard with these learners, so we need to give some of those rewards along the way, and it's not just once we reach the end or you finish the thing, but it's along the way that we're giving that, those affirmations and those supports so that they stay motivated and stay engaged. And sometimes, too, so it makes sense as to, like, why am I doing these tasks? Like, if it's just to get into college one day, but I'm in 8th grade, like, you gotta connect that for me. We have to create those steps along the way about why that might be the goal, how that's valuable to my life today. Right now, we have these still developing brains that aren't thinking in the future that far, and that might feel like this really overwhelming burden of everything is writing on this class, and what if it doesn't work, or what if I can't? Which turns into, I'm not even gonna try. If it can't be perfect, I don't even want to try it. If it takes me longer than 2 minutes, especially if we have kids who in elementary school could take a test without reading the material, who could finish where the first one's done with things, and now they're in middle school, where the academic expectations are harder, or the class switches add something, or the social pressures increase, now there's all these other factors that are making the learning environment more difficult, and maybe there's this feeling of, well, if it doesn't come easy to me, I don't know how to study. I don't know how to do those points in between. What does that progress look like? A lot of us that sequencing of steps can be really hard, of like, okay, I can't fully see the end product, so I don't even know where to start or that initiation. So if we can help identify the steps along the way, it feels more attainable in that process. So, looking at what are our values over our achievements. Are we valuing somebody who sticks with something and puts in their greatest effort? Are we valuing their loyalty and friendships? Are we valuing their honesty in addition to what they're doing in the academic space? And being able to balance all of those, like. Like, Inside Out was mentioned earlier, but like, yeah, looking at that whole inside core person, what are our core beliefs, what are the things that are important to us? Because we're raising well-rounded kids that can show up in different spaces, and they might have strengths in one side, and they might have difficulties in others, and how do we develop all of those muscles so that there isn't an imbalance in their nervous system? And that's where we start to find some of the authenticity of who are they, what are their values, what are the things that are important to them? Like, a lot of stuff at school is a demand, and it's prescribed, and you have to do it this one way. So how do we figure out the way that works for this brain and this nervous system and this kid in front of us, so that they can achieve it, they can access it. And they feel that autonomy that they can do it their way, because we want to teach the skill, as opposed to just get it done. Right? And that helps with building that identity of self, so where masking may not be as necessary, because they really know who they are, and we've identified those core traits of what they value. And talking about our core beliefs, slide. Poor beliefs often come from what our expectations are. A lot of times when we're talking with, like, little, like, little kids. A lot of that is led by the parents, and what you believe, you teach your kid, they come with you, they go along with it, because they're new to the world, and you're teaching them along the way. And once we start to get to middle school and high school, kids start to separate. They want to find their own identity, they want to find their own voice, they want to do it their way, and how are we setting them up for success in those spaces, of being able to do it with autonomy, and… teaching them still, that they don't have it all yet, but they want to feel like they do, and giving that, like, interdependence of, like, I've got you if you fall, but I'm gonna let you go, so that we can kind of test that space. So being clear about what the expectations are. Often, as adults, we say something, and there might be additional meaning to what we're saying, or it might be interpreted different from the kids about, like. Hey, I need you to do the best in that class. And they're putting in 150%, and they're having that crash. What is their best? What does that mean in your home and your family? Is that… that they were able to complete it, that they tried, that they did X, Y, or Z, and really determining what does your best mean? What happens if they trip along the way. What happens if the expectation isn't met? Is that clear as well? I think this comes in not only in, like, rewards, but also in punishments. If something comes up that they are grounded, or there is a consequence, are we clear in, like, where this came from, what the expectation was? how long this consequence is lasting? How could they maybe earn their way out of it, so that there's a lot of clarity In the whole conversation, because we started this off with, a lot of anxiety comes from when things feel out of control. There's a lot of unknowns, and that unknown and that loss of control increases the fear. So as much information as we can provide as to why, when, how, where. And this doesn't have to be a negotiation to where they're having as much say. You can still be the parent that has the boundaries and the rules. but bringing them into the discussion, so they understand and have the buy-in about, this is why it happened, this is why this is what's happening, so that they learn that thought process that goes along with it, to be able to make those choices when they move out, when they leave for college, when they're having… when they're getting to live independently, because they learned what that thought process looks like. Which goes with the perfectionism of, Are my expectations realistic? And what values do those meet? Is that a neurotypical or expectation? Is that a capitalistic-driven expectation? Is that what I actually believe? Is that a should that I actually don't buy into? Is there an alternative that might still meet that need? And where does that come from societally? Is that coming from social pressure with peers? Is that coming from social media? Is that things that maybe educators are saying for what the classroom is, and that we can support a kid in advocating to ask clarity for the teacher. When you said, do this, what did you actually mean? I need more context. So they can advocate And practice that for when they're in work environments, and if they're not given full context, or they need accommodations, how do we talk about that versus feeling like we have to mask it or hide it? Or knowing when there are times we do have to mask. We're, like, masking is a safety mechanism, and there are times that we do have to mask. Or we need to be able to say, I want a mask now, and I don't want a mask now, and how do we work that in together, that it's not just, we all have to be able to unmask, because there is a necessity to it. Also to help reduce some of the shame. of when it might be hard, or when it might be difficult, or when maybe they don't meet their own expectation, and maybe it was realistic and something else came up, or there's another chance, or they can keep trying, that it's not a one time and you fail, but like, okay, even if you failed a class, even if you have to take summer school, even if you have to do credit recovery. okay, you're retaking the class. It's still going to show up on your transcript, you can still transfer to college, you can still do these things. grades can always be recovered, right? Mental health is the thing we want to prioritize, of making sure their mental health is good. We can always find other routes to correct academics or education or get what we need that way. So reducing that expectation of the shoulds that lead to the shame, that lead to the masking, that lead to the secrets. And a lot of those shoulds come from ableism, and internalized ableism, and the overall mental load that 2E brains are managing with all of the information they may be taking in, or what they're choosing to block out, because it can be overwhelming. So, often with internalized ableism, it's those, intentional or unintentional shoulds of, I should be able to do this. I shouldn't be stressed by this. My classmates aren't spending 4 hours finishing this U.S. history assignment, so I should be able to do this faster. I should be getting a better grade. Like, or I should have more free time, because I want to rest. Like, where do those shoulds come from about what their capabilities are, and how are their alternatives? And how do we continue to reinforce that brains are different, environments are different, supports are okay, we need them for a lot of different reasons. That aren't just based on their neurotype, or their learning disability, or whatever it may be. Because 2E learners often engage in the constant environmental scanning of seeing what are other people doing, what are other people needing, and assessing their surroundings for those potential threats, or ostracization, or just overwhelm of, like, I don't want to do the thing anymore because it is just taking too much out of me, and the burnout comes in early. There's a lot of social math. that is going on for them to be able to calculate the dynamics of the environment and those expectations. And you might have kids who are just completely checked out of it about, like, nope, this is too much, I don't want to keep track of whatever the new HIIT thing is. That is not important to me. I am not into that, which, good for them, but also, that might mean there's isolation, because they're not connecting with their peers, because they are leaning into being their authentic self, or not buying into whatever the social pressure is, but that, as great as that is, it also can be lonely. And… they're aware of that. Kids are very perceptive about what is accepted, what is not accepted, what behavior they might see their friend get bullied about, or… doesn't even have to be bullying, it could just be the side-eye. You're standing in a group of people and you see a side-eye when your friend does something or when you do something. That rejection sensitivity can be triggered and pop up. That creates this whole internal dialogue of the shoulds and how something should present in different environments. So… talking through that, I think a lot of times as adults, getting to model what our own internal experience is in those environments about, like, oh. I had such a hard day today, like, at the PTA meeting, I was having a hard time keeping track of where the conversation was going, because it was disorganized this week, right? You're naming it, and you're giving them that validation that you experienced that too, or this happens in lots of areas of life, So that it's… It's clear that it's not just a them thing, that this is experienced by more people, and that there can be a normalizing experience of calculating all that information and tracking everything going on in their environment. Rainn Stone (they/them):  So, that connects really well to support needs. So… Oftentimes, support needs are the exact opposite of what adults expect in 2E kiddos. And the first reason is alexithymium. So, alexithymia, which can be diff… which is difficulties with interoception, which is difficulty with reading your body's cues, basically. It is not not having emotions. I, heard someone describe it as… Emotional color blindness, or if you microwaved a bunch of gummy candies together and you couldn't really separate them, but you can tell there's something there, but it just kind of seems like a big mess. And so alexithymia can lead to not realizing needs, both physical and emotional, which then can lead to a crash from needs being unmet. It's like, I don't have needs, I don't have needs, oh my god, I have too many needs, they can't all be met right this second, and then I'm suddenly in a meltdown, or a burnout. Additionally, daily fluctuation is really a hallmark of 2E neurology. One day, you know, your 2E learner might be able to do algebra on their head, and the next, they can't start a simple worksheet. One day, they can write a brilliant essay, and the next, picking up a pencil feels like the hardest task in the world. A lot of times, we as adults see this as inconsistency, but it's not inconsistency, it's kind of developmental reality of different times. We're gonna have different abilities based on where our nervous system is. Makes sense in theory, but in the moment when we're trying to do our math homework and it's 8 PM, feels really frustrating, right? And so that can also lead to internalized shame. Support needs may increase as burnout increases or demands increase. As Jamie was talking about earlier, as we get older and school demands increase, suddenly I can't meet these demands that we're… is so easy, you know, years ago. I don't know how to study, like Jamie said, and that can lead to a lot of shame. And so, a learner may feel shame for higher support needs, especially if they were persistently celebrated for being mature, and independent, and high-achieving, and having it all together, and it's like, suddenly you need help? I remember being told by one of my, late middle school teachers, like, you never need help, like, you were always, like, you've never needed help, what's up with you? And it was, like, this big shame thing for me, because I was like, well, what's up with me is, like. I just need help, why is that so weird? But it made me not want to ask for help again, because it felt like everyone was allowed to ask for help but me. And that goes back to that peer comparison we talked about earlier, like, I can't be the one struggling, if I'm struggling, what does that mean for other people? And so, I always like to kind of go back to this diagram, which is the circle of security. And it's, I did not create this. The… it's by Cooper and Hoffman, and it's from a parenting training. Parent training course for kids, for parents who have their own trauma. But what's really important is we often assume that giftedness equates to independence or emotional independence, that if a child can explain their feelings. They must also be able to regulate them, or if a child can, you know, be on all these clubs and do all these amazing things, like, why can't they just have, like, decent behavior? And the thing is, cognition doesn't regulate our nervous system. Giftedness doesn't replace attachment. Insight doesn't soothe overwhelm. And so what kids need is a secure base. They need you to support their exploration to go out into the world. They need you to watch over them, make sure that they're safe, delight in them, show that you are proud of them, that you're happy with who they are, and thrilled with them as a person. Help them when they need it. and enjoy with them. So that's kind of them going out to the world, doing the cool things, exploring, and then something goes wrong. When something goes wrong, kids need a safe haven to return to. They need you to welcome their coming to you. They need you to protect them. They need you to comfort them. And there's one thing that's the same on the top and the bottom, which is delight in me. They need you to be thrilled with them when they're doing well, and when they're struggling. And that can be hard sometimes to remember, is my kid needs celebrated in their hardest moments, not just their highest moments. And they need you to help them organize their feelings. And so the saying is, like, always be bigger, stronger, wiser, and kind. When possible, follow my child's need, and when necessary, take charge. Yeah. And so, how do we do that? Really, through curiosity. Curiosity is one of the most powerful relational tools that we have. It interrupts judgment, it challenges internalized narratives, it prevents adults from defaulting to punitive interpretations of behavior. Curiosity says, instead of assuming what this behavior means, I'm gonna wonder… I'm going to let you show me, instead of forcing you to align with what I expect. When we explore the underlying need, everything changes. What need is this behavior meeting? What safety is this child trying to create? What overwhelm is this child trying to solve? Clarifying expectations. Reduces anxiety, especially demand anxiety. Oftentimes, 2E learners are gonna set the bar really, really high if we let them set it themselves. And so, you know, kind of showing what is the bar really? Kids are often terrified of disappointing us, themselves, or peers, and vague instructions just create panic. Also, break things up. Breaks are not rewards or escapes, they're regulation tools. Prevent meltdowns before they have to occur. I know for myself, if I hit 2 hours of one thing consistently and I have not had a break, my brain is dead, I'm about to scream into a void or someone's face. It… we don't know yet. And so, divide tasks into… I don't actually scream at people, to be clear. But divide tasks into manageable steps. You know, like Jamie mentioned earlier, show them how to get from point A to point B if need be, because when we're just staring at the mountain, it can be hard to find the first foothold. And then also allow emotional expression. Provide space for meltdowns, provide space for having big feelings, for this isn't fair, for this kind of sucks, and I'm not having a good time. You know, curiosity communicates safety, control communicates fear, and fear shunts learning and connection down. Jamie Roberts:  So we're working with our kids about building identity, building that authenticity piece, building their voice, so that we can help them advocate, but also remove the mask and find the spaces in which they are accepted and validated and seen for all their greatness. And so, moving beyond the mask, we're developing that self-concept of what they connect with, what their special interests are, where their values are, what their hopes and dreams are, so that they can identify in those spaces. So, moving beyond perfectionism and achievement allows two individuals to embrace their unique strengths. while reducing the pressure of living up to those societal expectations. So we're bringing in other values, we're bringing in other goals, other achievements that might move beyond just academics. And also, if academics is where we thrive, how do we learn to balance it, how to regulate it, and how to move into it with intention and control so that it doesn't become overburdensome? Embracing that authenticity, embracing the quirks, embracing the unique way of learning, or gaining that information, understanding that also reflecting on what might be our, as an adult, our internalized ableism of what that expectation might be, of expecting our kids to have multiple friends. Is that what they want? Is that how they socialize? Do they need to hang out in person? Are they okay hanging out in online spaces? How do they reach out and find the people that they do connect with to build those environments? And that It may not be until they're in college, or they're able to be in other spaces, or be in a new social group, so how do we identify that and support them in developing that authenticity and being proud of who they are, in order to advocate. So, connecting with their true selves, facilitating their healthy expression of identity, that also Having anxiety is gonna be a thing that shows up, so not shaming that piece of them. How to know that anger is okay, that we are allowed to have every emotion, and how do we want to choose to express it, right? That it's okay to be angry, but how do we want to let it out? It's okay to use pain regulation, but how do we want to do it in a safe way? It's okay to dislike doing this activity. And how do we want to express that to the people around us, so that they do have that autonomy and choice in building their voice? Rainn Stone (they/them):  So, practical strategies, because we know it's great to understand why something's happening, but what to do about it. We've said this a couple times, but clear expectations, establishing clear expectations is crucial for reducing anxiety. By outlining specific achievable tasks, we help kids understand what's required, making them feel more secure. And that's not just about clear expectations with homework. That's clear expectations when it comes to how we interact in the family, what's expected at home, what's expected emotionally from you, what's expected in how you contribute to society. You know, expectations exist everywhere. I think sometimes we forget that, so… Having the conversation is not just about schoolwork, but about expectations overall. And then breaking things into manageable, gradual steps. Like we've talked about a few times. It encourages a sense of accomplishment as each step is completed. Also allowing… I messed up the flow of our slides earlier, I think. Jamie Roberts:  I did, too. I think I took one of your slides earlier. Rainn Stone (they/them):  I think I took one of your slides, okay. So… Jamie Roberts:  It's not perfect, either! Rainn Stone (they/them):  That was why I hesitated. Okay, so, also, allowing space for emotion regulation or emotional expression, like we talked about earlier, understanding and supporting emotional needs. Meltdowns are okay. I am a full-blown therapist with two degrees in emotions and what to do with them. Do you think I don't have meltdowns sometimes? Please let my dog tell you I do. And sometimes he's the tissue. Allowing space for meltdowns creates an environment where emotional expression is valued, fostering safety and understanding rather than punishment or criticism for dysregulation. As long as we're melting down safely, and, you know, it's not… taking away our ability to function, a good cry is really great sometimes, or however meltdown looks for, you know, your learner. It's okay to have big feelings, and it's okay for those big feelings to come out really, really messy, as long as that messy is safe. And also recognizing the different nervous system states helps in understanding responses. If we know what's happening, it's not some big unknown—which we've established neurodivergent people often dislike. So, as I like to say, “name it to tame it.” If we understand the different responses, that enables therapists and parents to better support learners through their fluctuating emotional experiences. To make sure you are equipped with lots of resources, here is a list of some books that are great starting points for understanding the neurodivergent brain, emotional reactivity, and perfectionism. I may have been biased and put my book at the top of the list, but that’s okay! Some of these are really great for nurturing autistic young people: The Autistic Burnout Workbook  by Dr. Megan Anna Neff, The Explosive Child  by Dr. Ross Green—who also has a parent and therapist protocol called Collaborative Proactive Solutions, which focuses on collaboration between child and adult to meet expectations. The idea is that if a child isn’t meeting expectations, it’s because they can’t—so how do we shift expectations to make them more achievable? You’re on Fire, It’s Fine  is another great book for parents of kids with big emotions who may be in crisis states. Some organizations with valuable resources include PDA North America, Neurodivergent Insights (Dr. Megan Anna Neff’s platform), NeuroPebble (my continuing education platform, which also welcomes parents and caregivers), and Autism Career Pathways in the Bay Area, which supports young adults entering the workforce and trains employers to support neurodivergent employees. Yellow Ladybugs offers wonderful insights, and the Stoll Learning Center supports twice-exceptional (2E) kids and offers free resources and podcasts. Embrace the Muchness  has an amazing ADHD resource list, and ndtherapist.com  is a directory of self-identified neurodivergent clinicians. This QR code will take you to my full resource list, including books, podcasts, and organizations to continue supporting your relationship with your kids. Rainn added a couple more resources: Living with Intensity , a book about reframing giftedness as intensity in intellect, emotion, and sensory experience, and Navigating Your Rainforest Mind , another excellent read. We also want to highlight the upcoming Autistic Clinical Insights  conference. Rain and I are both presenting—Rain five times, me twice, and one presentation together on neuroqueering therapy for teens. It’s all autistic-focused content, with 25 presentations over three days, a low entry fee, and some of the biggest names in the autistic community. Yael then thanked us, saying how dynamic and fascinating the session was—she even took ten pages of notes! After some questions, one parent asked whether 152 BPM music works for younger kids (ages 7–9). Jamie explained that you can search Spotify or YouTube for 152 BPM playlists; there are options in many genres, including kids’ songs. Another parent shared that they weren’t identified as gifted due to dyslexia and asked how twice-exceptional kids who don’t fit traditional academic molds might show perfectionism outside academics. Jamie said it’s about identifying where their strengths show up—maybe in organizing their space or creativity—and helping them use those strengths to expand in other areas. Rainn added that it’s also important to notice how perfectionism feels in the nervous system, and to trust that intuitive sense. When asked about helping kids see themselves unmasked and enjoy being unmasked, Jamie shared creative strategies—games that invite silliness and vulnerability, or group music activities that allow kids to express emotions indirectly. This helps them feel safe and seen behind the mask. Creative and theatrical settings can also help kids explore different identities safely. Rainn added art activities, like drawing or creating Pinterest boards showing “masked” vs. “unmasked” selves, or exploring characters they relate to through roleplay—since kids often express themselves through their special interests as much as through words. Jamie also shared the story behind NeuroPebble : it comes from “penguin pebbling,” where penguins gift pebbles to show affection. Neurodivergent people often show love in similar ways, sharing small, meaningful gestures or facts—so the brand celebrates that. Another question came up about balancing pushing kids to try things versus honoring their nervous systems. Rainn advised first asking why the child is resisting—whether it’s perfectionism, PDA, burnout, or simply too many new experiences. Jamie added that front-loading expectations helps: watching videos about the activity, visiting the space, or driving the route in advance reduces unknowns. She also suggests a “mental health day” system and framing new activities as experiments—gathering information without pressure or long-term commitment. A homeschool parent asked how to help their child, who compares himself to peers in public school. Jamie emphasized validating the grief of missing that experience while also recognizing the strengths of his self-directed learning. Two things can be true at once—it’s okay to appreciate his path and still grieve what’s missed. Rainn shared her own story of taking a nontraditional schooling path, which she doesn’t regret but still mourns certain social experiences. She reminded parents that while their kids may be “missing” conventional milestones, they’re also gaining meaningful ones—like better rest and less burnout. Finally, a question came up about balancing expectations for newly diagnosed neurodivergent young adults versus neurotypical peers. Rainn suggested examining where expectations come from—are they based on necessity or societal pressure? For example, “manners” or internships may reflect ableist or colonial norms that don’t always serve the child’s needs. Jamie agreed, adding that the traditional “timeline” for education and independence isn’t one-size-fits-all, and may need adjustment to prevent burnout. Parents may also need to grieve their expectations while embracing the reality of their child’s unique path. The session closed with gratitude and appreciation from everyone. Yael thanked Rainn and Jamie for one of the most dynamic and engaging sessions she’d ever seen. The recording, feedback link, and slides would be shared afterward. Jamie and Rainn thanked everyone warmly for attending, and the chat filled with hearts and gratitude.

“Preach! Write! Act! Do anything save to lie down and die!” - Hester, in the Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne Focus on what's there, not what's missing I come from a product design background. In graduate school we were taught that after we had a test subject use our product, we should ask them first ‘what are the worst three things about it?’ right away, before they said anything else. We did this because people are reluctant to criticize something they think you made, so if we don’t ask them that first, we’ll just get a bunch of useless platitudes about how great the product was, and we’ll never know what we need to improve. How very ironic and sad that when it comes to children, the most well intentioned people typically do the opposite. If you’ve ever sat in on an IEP meeting or been called in to a parent-teacher conference to discuss some issue with your child, you know exactly what I mean. In the education world, albeit with the best intentions, the ‘worst three things’ are often what we focus exclusively on. It’s time to flip the script. When considering our children, we need to discover -and focus on - the best things. The strengths. The curiosities. The passions. Strengths vs. Interests Strength-based programming talks a lot about ‘strengths’ and ‘interests.’ What’s the difference? Strengths are things/subjects which your child is good at, which seem to come naturally to them. Interests, on the other hand, are things which your child is curious about. They’re what your child enjoys spending time working on and thinking about. You may discover that your child may be strong in one academic area, but not really excited by it. Or you may find that your child has an interest in an area which might require some extra effort for them to be successful. Or, you might find overlap - a child who both has a strength in an area, and has a passion for it. Of course, if your child is the latter, you’re in luck! As Dr. Susan Baum says, “Magic happens at the intersection of strengths and interests.” But all three combinations are valid and worth encouraging. If your child has an interest which isn’t squarely in a strength area, this is a great opportunity for them to find value in the struggle and make meaningful progress. If your child has a strength that they’re not really interested in, remind them that it’s great to have an area where things come naturally for them, because it means they’ll have more effort capacity to expend in other areas. Encourage them to continue to seek out interests which may or may not overlap their strength area. Uncover hidden strengths (Two Heads - Paul Klee) My younger daughter recently was invited over to an older classmate’s house on a Sunday. The older classmate, Sarah, had written a play and had cast several children of various ages in the roles. Everyone was excited. When I came to pick my daughter up, Sarah was filming the play in her front yard. You could see spray paint on the grass which were Sarah’s blocking marks, indicating where each actor should stand. She kept yelling ‘cut’ and directing the children on how to stand, how to deliver their lines, how to have stage presence. You could tell that Sarah was serious about getting this production performed. No one was eager to leave, so I went over and talked to Sarah’s mother for a bit. She told me that she was floored that this was her daughter. Sarah hated school, and consistently resisted writing. She did the least amount that was ever required on any assignment. How could this be the same girl who had stayed up all night writing this multi-page script? Who had organized various children in different grades, and brought them together on a weekend to put on this play? I was nearly brought to tears. This was a beautiful example of interests in action. Sarah was able to write and produce work when reframed in an area of interest. Sarah came alive when writing for the stage, imagining how the actors would move, and visualizing the play. I eagerly await her first feature-length production. I can say I knew her when. In order to successfully identify your child’s strengths and interests, you need to start by opening your mind to the possibilities. See the child for who they are, not who you may want them to be. Once you understand what makes them light up, you’ll be able to support, encourage, and nurture it. Below I discuss seven strategies which will help you identify and get the most out of your child’s strengths. Success Strategy #1 - Observe & talk On the Observation Deck, NYC Observe your child as they play and work. At home, provide a variety of materials to experiment with and activities to try, and see what they gravitate towards. In some circles this is called the “strewing strategy.” For example, place a book on butterflies in the living room, leave some paint and clay out in the playroom, and set aside some space in the garage for some building materials. Every so often, switch out what’s available. Now sit back and observe what your child gravitates to on their own. What materials do they experiment with? What books catch their interest? What other interests do these materials and choices spark for them? What are they curious about? Talk to your child. Ask them about their interests. Ask them what they feel they are good at. Discuss with them what you are observing, and what they’ve observed about themself. Together you can generate ideas, and come to agreement on areas of strength and current interests. Here are some questions to ask your child: What are some things you are curious about right now? Are there any activities you’ve heard of that you’d like to try out? Are there any activities you’re currently doing at home or in school which you’d like to do more of? What do you like to do when you have free time? This can also be done at school. Hopefully, your child’s teacher has various interest stations around the classroom on a variety of topics with a variety of materials. If not, ask if this is something they might consider doing. One way to uncover strengths in the classroom is to observe what roles students take when they work in groups. In fact, one of the best ways to uncover strengths happens when a teacher provides choices for students as to how they demonstrate their knowledge. Perhaps there is a unit where the students can choose to show what they know by writing an essay, or producing a skit, or creating a photo essay. Set up a time to meet with your teacher and ask them where your child focuses during their choice time, what roles they choose to play in group work, and what ways they choose to show their knowledge. Your child likely has a support network (tutors, therapists, after-school enrichment teachers) of other people, all of whom are a great resource for this kind of observation and talk. Or maybe they’re close with a grandparent, aunt, or other family member. Their siblings may have some interesting insights. Camp counselors, extra curricular coaches, and parents of your child’s friends are all other great potential sources of new information. Here are some questions to ask others in your child’s life: What gets my child excited? What subjects/things seem to come naturally to my child? What does my child seem most interested in? What does my child choose to do during free time? What types of projects/assignments does my child gravitate towards? What are the best three things about my child? Success Strategy #2 - Use tools Harness your strength with tools! There are a variety of tools available which aim to help you understand your child’s strengths and interests. Some are available for free on the internet, and others are administered by trained professionals. If you’re looking for a lightweight way to uncover some interests, you can find a huge variety of quizzes and forms online for free. One example is the “interest-a-lyzer”, developed by Dr. Joseph Renzulli, an expert on gifted education. At Bridges Graduate School we are trained to administer the Suite of Tools, which is a great way to have an outside expert help you identify your child’s personality profile, their interests, their strengths, and identify some potential ways to nurture these sparks. You walk away with a written report detailing all the potential and greatness of your child. The best private evaluators will also provide this information in their write-ups. Success Strategy #3 - Provide opportunities for children to know, show, and grow their strengths My daughter likes to draw; my son likes to take imaginary journeys Now that you have some ideas about what your child might be interested in, and where their strengths lie, you can begin to nurture those sparks. Depending on your own availability and your child’s age and independence level, you can find ways to do this either through outside clubs, classes, and activities, or by working with your child on your own. Here are just a few ideas to get you started: Entrepreneurship activities: help your child identify a simple business idea (Lemonade stand on the corner? Craft stand at a local park?), write up a budget, and try their hand at selling something on their own. There are also classes for kids who are interested in entrepreneurship, including several online options. Creative expression options: enroll your child in an art class, a local theater production, a sculpting studio class, etc. There are nearly endless options! Alternatively, your child may enjoy watching learn-to-draw videos on YouTube or other online, independent tutorials. Deep dive into a science topic: if your child is interested in a particular topic, such as outer space, you can support this interest in a variety of ways. Take them to the local library and help them find age-appropriate books. Help them do research on the internet. Look for local classes or enthusiast meetups on the topic. Sports: encourage your child to join a sports team or class. Gaming (card games, board games, social games, etc): don’t be afraid of gaming! Within reason, even video game playing can provide lots of interesting fodder for thinking about storytelling, plot, cooperation, and many other skills. Beyond the world of video games, there are lots of other interesting games out there, including meetups for Magic the Gathering and Pokemon, board game parties, Dungeons & Dragons classes (online as well as in person), live action role playing (LARP) clubs, and more. There are plenty of online classes and tutorials available on how to design and develop engaging games. Don’t worry too much if your young child tries something out and decides they don’t like it. While it is true that as they grow older, they will benefit from sticking with activities for a longer time, when they are just starting out it is primarily important to teach your child to not be afraid to try new things. It is part of normal development to change one’s mind. Think back to the squiggly line which charts success! Things to try: Partner with your child to find interest- and strength- based activities One strategy which has worked well in our family was to set expectations and provide options. I made it clear to my children that they should be spending time on at least one independent interest each week. It did not have to be a class or an activity; it could be something they pursued on their own. I asked them to make a list of all the things in which they were currently curious. I then took that list and did a bit of research. I found online classes, in-person classes, clubs/interest groups, and came up with some independent project ideas. I presented this list to each child and had them pick one they wanted to try. In this way my children felt some level of control and choice, while also understanding what was expected of them. I recommend being very clear what the expectation is for your child - how many classes will they be signing up for? - and when the decision points will be where they can decide if they want to continue or pivot to something else. Try to always reflect on what they learned - what did they like about an activity? What would they have preferred to have done differently? This can help you as you look for the next interest to pursue. Eventually you and your child will get better at identifying promising ‘leads’ and should begin to settle in on some areas on which to focus. Things to try: Model growth - create a family goal chart Everyone is a lifelong learner! Model your own learning and growth with a summer chart. At the start of summer, everyone in our family - parents included - identifies at least one goal that they have for the summer. Last year, mine were to write daily and read more non-fiction, my daughter’s were to learn to ride a bike and swim at least once a week, and my older son’s was to teach himself calculus. We create a daily tracker on a poster board (one box for each day, for the full 10 or so weeks of summer) and hang it somewhere everyone in our house (like the kitchen) sees it regularly. As the summer progresses, we gather and check-in on progress, marking daily when each person has made progress towards their goal, and celebrating milestones as we all learn to learn together. Remember, experiences should be joyous. Let your child, especially at the novice level, take the lead on finding and growing their curiosities and interests. And model lifelong learning! Above all - make sure there is time in your child’s day every day to do something that they love. This is something that every human being deserves. Success Strategy #4 - Center Strengths (Don’t gate them!) Don't get Hulk angry! Now that you have some idea of what your child enjoys doing, you may be tempted to use it as a carrot on a stick. Resist this impulse! Don’t use the strength as a reward or take it away as a punishment. Don’t tell your child that they can’t draw in their room until their tutoring homework is done. Don’t make your child sit out of theater practice because they didn’t finish an essay. At school, don’t let your child be forced to sit out on a subject they love (including PE and recess!) in order to finish work or participate in a tutoring other intervention session. It is critically important that your child get to do the things they love at school, not just the things they hate. It sounds obvious as I write this, but all too often this is exactly what happens to kids at school. A happy and engaged student is one who will take on challenges. Knowing that you are good at something builds confidence, self-esteem, and self-efficacy and it transfers to all other aspects of your life. When you hit an obstacle, or are asked to do a particularly challenging assignment, knowing that you have been successful at other things will give you the confidence needed to persevere. Success Strategy #5 - Separate the content from the medium Medium is a preference (Donum, Sonoma, CA) When you ask an author what their job is, they’ll tell you it is to craft great stories. Not to write a series of words onto a big stack of paper. The reason they write is to convey a story through language. Words can be consumed in a variety of ways. If your child is struggling with reading, do not confuse that with a struggle to understand and appreciate literature and process information. Audiobooks and graphic novels will enable your child to experience fantastic worlds through works of fiction, or challenging social situations through novels. Without having to process written words on a page, children can dive into research about space, dinosaurs, or ballet. When trying to evaluate what your child knows, it is important to consider how they are being tested. Make sure the evaluation is on content mastery and not on their ability to take traditional tests. Sometimes, the goal of a unit might be to improve writing skills, or reading comprehension, so a test which uses writing or asks a student to read and then choose among multiple choice options is appropriate and makes sense. However, sometimes the unit is on something else entirely, like Ancient Egyptians, or Friction. In cases like those, make sure that your evaluation mechanisms actually get at understanding what the child knows about the topic itself - not just whether they can write a short answer, or choose from a multiple choice list about it. Remember back to our ‘perfect day’ thought experiment - let the child choose the way they feel most comfortable demonstrating their mastery of the material. Besides being better in terms of quality, quantity, and how you make your students feel, these final results should be much more interesting - you may get a report, a creative play, a diorama, a Rube Goldberg machine, and a song! When teaching a lesson at home or at school, consider alternative ways of introducing material. There are many creative ways to incorporate hands-on projects into lessons on abstract ideas. Curriculum can be designed to incorporate movement. In my son’s school while learning about the layers of the rainforest, the teacher had them all lay down on the floor, then slowly rise up all the way to kneeling on their desks, while shouting out as they moved, “Forest floor! Understory! Canopy! Emergent!” It is common practice among private schools to spend a day evaluating potential student applicants. For middle school entrants, schools often give students a creative prompt, such as “you find yourself in a dark forest with a box,” and ask students to write a short story from there. It is a fun and interesting way to learn more about the child, as well as assess their verbal skills. However not all schools allow the students choice in how they demonstrate their work. Some will not allow computers - no typing or dictation allowed - requiring the students to hand write their responses. So now the evaluation will also be on penmanship and spelling. Others will be more flexible and allow various options for students to produce their work. The most creative schools will also allow the student alternatives for demonstrating their work, such as allowing them to set aside the writing and simply tell their story. All of these are legitimate options, so long as the school is intentional about what they are assessing and why. They should also clearly communicate these assessment expectations to the students and parents so together you can make an informed decision on which school will work best for your child. Success Strategy #6 - Reframe Creativity is fun Sometimes, all that is required is a shift of focus. For example, many ‘symptoms’ of ADHD can be reframed as positive traits of creativity*: Hyperactivity - vitality Distractibility - a divergent mind Impulsivity - spontaneity Hyperfocus - passion & flow Poor executive function - a creative imagination *Bonnie Cramond, Professor of Creative Studies at University of Georgia, 1994. Reframing requires a willingness to be creative, to shift your focus and see things differently. If you allow space for creativity in your home and in the classroom, you may be surprised at the new perspectives you gain. I once observed a science classroom where the teacher had the class watch while he put two cans into a bucket of water - one Coke can, and one Diet Coke. The Coke sank, while the Diet Coke floated to the top. The teacher asked the students to think about why. They all diligently began scribbling ideas and notes onto their papers. One student raised his hand and asked, “I was just wondering, what would happen if we put the Coke can on top of the Diet one? Would it push both down? Or would the Diet coke push the Coke up and make them both float? And also, given what I know about currents - that hot water floats on top of cold water - what would happen if we heated the Coke can, would that make it float?” There are a lot of interesting things going on here! The original experiment is engaging, but there are also a wealth of other tangent paths to explore in this child’s mind. The teacher could shut this student down, and consider them disruptive. Or they could nurture this creative thinking and encourage them to experiment with these alternatives. Success Strategy #7 - Find your community My last suggestion - don’t go it alone! There are numerous supportive online communities and local support groups (including ours here at REEL!) where you can find others on similar paths as yours. Your community may be among other neurodivergent folks, or it may be among others with similar interests. Your child’s communities may be different from your own. Remember to take time for yourself and do something that brings YOU joy every day. All of us deserve the wonderful feeling of being able to spend time doing something we love, accomplishing something we’re good at, each and every day. If you’re looking to learn more, I encourage you to check out REEL’s 2e Topics tool , where you'll find recordings, materials, and other great information on a wide variety of topics concerning neurodivergent learners, including a section with more resources on strengths. I also encourage you to visit our parent resources page . Whether you find your community online, in-person, with us, or elsewhere, remember - we’re all in this together. Welcome to the journey!

Parents of 2e learners often have trouble finding an ideal learning environment for their child. Should you stay in public school, try private school, homeschool, or try a unique school format? The answer is: It depends! Hear from our panel of experts: • Local schools consultant, Lauren Meltzer of Parent Resource Advisors, discussed 2e private school experiences. • Local advocate and former educator, Heather Johanson of Mosaic Minds, shared insights on working with public schools and creative accommodations. • Homeschool consultant, Lisa Jobe of Sequoia Gifted, explored alternatives to traditional education, such as homeschooling, dual enrollment, early graduation, and more. Attendees learned about the pros and cons of various learning environments, the signs it was time to make a change, and the process of finding a good-fit school for their 2e learner. Check out these posts for insights from our past private school panels: Private School for 2e Learners? Key Considerations 2021 Panel 2022 panel 2023 panel 2024 panel Chart of local schools and remote 2e options:   https://tinyurl.com/REELPrivateSchoolsList Read the transcript here: Welcome, REEL overview, services, events, and speaker introductions Welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining us tonight for REEL’S 2E Private School and Educational Options Panel. In case you're not familiar with REEL, we are a nonprofit in Silicon Valley that strives to ensure twice-exceptional students thrive in school by raising parent and educator awareness An understanding of practical, research-based strategies to address their needs successfully. This is an example of what we do for parents tonight's talk. So just so we're all on the same page, many of you probably know this, but this is how we define 2E. It is the combination of distinguishing strengths, high abilities or potential, and complex challenges such as dyslexia, ADHD, anxiety, autism, and more, and We think of these individuals as green, combining the strengths and the challenges, and what makes these learners complex is that you have to address both of these, the challenges and the strengths, at the same time. REEL provides many free parent services, including a speaker series like the one you're attending tonight, and we will post the rest of the season series shortly. We also provide a bi-monthly parent support group online, a private Google group with over 900 members that ask and answer each other's questions. A resource of, containing all online resources that have been recommended in our community, so, occupational therapists, ed therapists, writing tutors. We also have… and an IEP guide, many online resources and articles about many topics. We also have a school list. Callie will post some of these in the chat so you can, learn about school selection related to tonight. a list of local schools. And then we also offer small, paid, facilitated groups with our amazing Teresa, and one-on-one consultations if you'd like to speak, to anyone in the specific case of your child. We recently put together these parent toolkits that you can download for free on our site, that cover all kinds of topics, like how to start the school year off right, all the way to how to get ready for college, and everything in between. And as I mentioned, we offer this free 46-page IEP guide specifically made for twice exceptional learners. It is, pertinent to California, but most of it would be applicable anywhere. You can get that again on our site. We also provide educator services. We do custom professional development. We just came from a workshop today. You can bring REEL to your school to learn more about choice exceptionality, neurodivergence, learning different simulations or other custom options. We provide a lot of online resources, recordings about how to help with writing. And other, articles that can support your school. And we have a bi-monthly educator newsletter with all kinds of resources and tips for working with neurodivergent learners. And we also have a… our free, model, educator model, that you can download, the Dear Reel model that talks about solutions for the classroom based on developing connection, embracing flexibility, attending to strengths, and reframing behaviors, with specific examples in elementary, middle, and high school. So, we are already halfway through our fall events, but in two weeks, we are going to have a lunchtime talk with Teresa about 2E and self-regulation. On November 5th, we have an in-person event where you can experience the real learning difference simulation that we do with educators. This is the first time we're doing it with parents. And then November 12th, we have our final talk of this, semester, Behind the Mask, Understanding Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Masking in Two-Week Kids with two amazing ladies. And then November 6th is our final 2E Support Group of the year, all available on our website, and the recordings of all the previous events, if you missed them, are also available on our website. You can join our Google group, you can follow us on all these socials, and see all of our previous recordings on YouTube. And now I'm going to introduce our amazing speakers for the night. So, we have Lauren Meltzer, who's the co-founder of Parent Resource Advisors, which helps parents of neurodiverse children find good fit private schools and resources. She is also a parent coach and educator for several organizations, including REEL, you can get a one-on-one consultation with her through us, and JFCS. She received a master's degree in education from Harvard University and is a certified parent coach. Lauren has been a lifelong advocate for social-emotional learning and has played leadership roles for the parent organizations at the Keys and Synapse schools in Silicon Valley. As the mother of a twice-exceptional and select… intellectually gifted children who have one or more learning disabilities, daughter, she is passionate about helping families develop strategies to support their children's unique needs. Heather Johansen is the founder of Mosaic Minds Consulting, where she helps families understand and support their neurodivergent learners. A former teacher and inclusion specialist, Heather has spent over two decades designing programs for students with dyslexia, ADHD, autism, and anxiety, always with a focus on strengths, connection, and collaboration. Known for her warmth and creative problem solving, she helps parents and schools work together to create environments where every child can thrive. Heather is also a mom of three, and a lifelong learner who loves being outdoors, from gardening to hiking to planning her next travel adventure. I would like to hear where that is. Lisa Jobe is co-founder of Sequoia Gifted and Creative, internationally recognized for her expertise in supporting gifted TUI families in both school advocacy and homeschooling. She is also the founder of Sequoia Gifted Academy, the first homeschool umbrella providing educational guidance specifically tailored for highly and profoundly gifted TUI learners. A former corporate attorney, Lisa pivoted to education two decades ago after raising her own profoundly gifted to Chewie Sons with her husband, Greg, in Northern California. She is an avid believer in the benefits of strength-based, interest-focused learning and personalized learning pathways, particularly for asynchronous learners. And Lisa also has a… an amazing… if you… if it's okay, Lisa, I'm gonna summarize. She also… she has co-written chapters and books about gifted education. She's on the board of directors for the Gifted Homeschool Forum. Yeah, I think you're good. Okay, she has a lot of amazing accomplishments. I am going to now switch to their slide deck, and I think Lisa's going to kick us off. Lisa Jobe — Opening remarks, research, and the Five Environments for Growth I am. I'm so glad to be a part of REEL. This organization is such an important piece of our community, not only in here in the Bay Area, in Northern California, but really nationally. So many families I know, perhaps, are even joining from other areas of the country, and I I think I actually saw someone international in the chat, so welcome to everyone, and thank you to REEL for having me. You know, oh, go ahead and you can flip the slides. So, one thing, the three of us are all in the same slide deck, so you'll hear us, give a little cue to slip, to change our slides here. primarily with learners who have a disconnect with the traditional school system. So, today we're going to talk where, we're going to have, Lauren and Heather talk about the public school systems. Particularly there in the Bay Area, and then the private school and those different options. And when you listen, you'll hear that a lot of the schools can overlap. And, share a lot of commonalities. So it really isn't three silos. Today, I'm representing the third silo, which is that dreaded word that most gifted chewy people never even think of when they start their journeys. And that's that word, homeschooling. So I'll talk about that later. But first, I want to jump in and just say, boy. just about every one of us with two-y kiddos, I think, at some point wonders about whether we're in the right school system or school environment for our kiddos. And it's such a big conversation that I actually did some research. I'm a doctoral student in 2E, I'm about to finish with Callie, and so I did some research last year to find out why are gifted 2E learners specifically changing schools frequently, and how often do they change? And luckily, my case studies cover just about most of the common learning differences that our TUE learners have. And interestingly, there really wasn't a big difference between learning differences, or even learners who aren't diagnosed. But what was interesting is that a lot of people think that we jump because of academics, and we know that the social piece, the emotional piece, and other parts of the learning environment are really important to our learners, and without that connection, it's really hard for them to thrive. So go ahead and flip this slide for me, please, if you can. And so, I guess I should have said on the last slide, too, just as y'all was sharing, you know, we think about the fact that a lot of our learners are either being left out of the gifted program, or their learning difference might be creating a barrier of some kind. And so, when we think about having both their high abilities, their interests, their strengths. met and matched and challenged in their way, and then also for them to be able to thrive and be successful with those learning differences, it takes a lot of movement, and a lot of thought. And I know a big question, I believe, that was coming in before this conversation was. Well, when do we make a choice? When do we change? So this is going to be something that I think we're going to talk about a lot more later tonight, but I just want to share just some kind of two cents as we're thinking about this going forward. Go ahead and switch this slide for me, please. So, coming out of the Bridges community, which is the first graduate school specifically for 2E, and where a lot of our research on Twice Exceptional Learners is coming through, my mentor and chair, Dr. Susan Baum, and another renowned expert. framework, and I know REEL uses this framework a lot, and I think it's really helpful for parents, as they're listening tonight, to think about this framework. Sometimes you may hear it called the 2E Friendly Environments. Dr. Baum, because she's working on my dissertation with me, tells me the new name, or the official name, is the Five Environments for Growth. So the concept here for all parents is that every TUE learner has 5 areas of non-negotiable needs that must be met for them to thrive and be their best. And academic and cognitive isn't just a privilege, but it's a true need for most of our learners. So we know that burnout and bore-out can be similar physiologically. So we want to make sure they're in that Goldilocks spot where they're learning without being overwhelmed, they're challenged without being bored, and so those pieces are always important to our TUE gifted learners. The social part about feeling belonging, feeling that they're part of the group, feeling that they're understood by others, and that they, can form those relationships, that is another equally important aspect of our kiddos' learning environment. get emotional. You know, if our kiddos have anxiety, if they're feeling overwhelmed, if they're feeling school reluctance, and certainly school avoidance, we want to make sure that when they are in that learning, that they feel that they are regulated, and that they can be their, best in terms of their well-being. Then we have that physical environment. Interestingly, a lot of our 2E learners need a little bit different of something besides a standard classroom. Some may need some fidget space, or the ability to get up and take breaks. I know my own TUE learner, who just graduated from high school, he prefers to work in the dark. I used to call it the cave, until I realized that that was his learning environment where he does best. When he was little, his learning environment physically was hanging off the back of the couch, because he ended up homeschooling. So we know that that can look different for a lot of our learners. And then another piece we just want to keep in mind is that creative piece, and that creative piece is really important. In fact, Dr. Daniels and Dr. Peters out of Summit Center have said… have written a book on creativity, noting that a lot of creativity diminishes after 4th grade, and a lot of our TUI learners thrive in those creative environments, where they can use their originality, their deductive learning skills, all those pieces. So I hope that as all of our friends, share together tonight, with all these different learning ideas, that you keep these five areas in mind for your own child. And one more flip? And I'll just very quickly, because I know it is on a lot of parents' minds as you look at this today, and this question, again, comes up all the time, when is it time to make a change? So I won't go into this completely right now, but I will just simply share, for those who have to run fast and don't get time to watch the video. That really, there's often no ideal situation for any learner, but specifically for our out-of-the-box, unique learners. So typically, I tell families that, to the extent that you can balance those five environmental needs, that's really important. But we always want to prioritize the emotional well-being. I don't think any of us, certainly I'm not a psychologist, I don't think anyone here tonight is. So we don't mean to tread into that space, which of course is best for our professionals. But in general, anxiety, school reluctance, school avoidance, those are all known to be signs that advocacy is needed, or that perhaps a change might be in the works. So I think on that note, I'm going to hand this over and do I mean, is it Lauren or Heather, who's next? Heather Johanson — Public schools: tiers of support, SST, 504, IEP, and advocacy Because we're going to start in the public school realm, and that's sort of, I would say, probably my most… my area of most expertise after spending 25 years in them, and then spending the last 7 working as an ed consultant and advocate. This is sort of where I live a lot of the time, and kind of when we're thinking of our 2E neurodiverse learners. I just kind of wanted to, like, kind of present it in, like, boxes and tiers, right? Kind of, like, where… where do we start? Where do we go in this process, right? And kind of at that bottom layer is our universal accommodations, those supports, and, like, I'm going to kind of answer, how do you even get that started? What do you mean? Like, what do I even do? kind of the next level up is in kind of what we call a student study team or student success team, depending on which district you're working with, and then that section 504, and then finally IEP. I'm going to kind of talk us through each piece of how these Layers in public schools could potentially help support your kiddos. I mean, each of these boxes could probably be, like, an hour-long talk itself, so I'm gonna keep it kind of tight, but feel free to put questions in the chat. All right, Yayal, you want to flip for me? Thank you. Okay, kind of, so step one, right? This is probably where you're maybe just… you're just having that twinge of something's not going well, maybe you even haven't even talked to a doctor, you're just like, something doesn't feel right, I just want to reach out to a teacher. This is sort of step one, is kind of getting those universal supports in. About a month ago, I did a chat with REEL and PHP, And it was all about writing collaborative emails. How do you get your teacher in on your side? And there's a little tiny URL right here on the screen where you can just pull… and I have a whole folder, like, where it's like, how do you write it? I have templates for you. I have templates for your kids to write letters to their… emails to their teachers. So all that's just stuck in that folder right there. Just on kind of those initial communications, right? Because you really want to get that partnership going. Your teacher, especially in elementary school, you want that partnership with them, so there's a ton of good information in there. So kind of step one. you're thinking, okay, if we just tweak this one thing, maybe things will be better. That's maybe where you reach out to your teacher, and you have a 15-minute meeting. It doesn't have to be huge, but just a 15-minute meeting. You say. Hey! Bobby, he's got some real sensory sensitivities, and so if you try these two things, I think things will go a lot better. Could we give him a whirl? 99% of your teachers are going to say yes, and there, you just try it and see how it goes. You didn't have to go through a ton of, like, meetings, whatever. This is, like I said, we're just sort of in the beginning, right? We're just trying some stuff out. Or maybe you want to do… kind of take it up. You have, like, you have an OT you're working with outside of school, right? And maybe you can bring that OT in with your teacher, and you have another 15 to 20 minute meeting, and that OT just gives some great… brings in a box of fidgets and whatever this kid needs. It's not formal, just, hey, and it kind of keeps things really calm. What this does, though, is even these little steps… Sort of lay the foundation for, look, we're working really collaboratively, we're trying to work this out with this teacher, we're trying to get this to work. before we kind of got to start going the more formal mess, it doesn't mean you have to start here. If your kiddo is in crisis, you're probably not going to start here, right? Like, you're going to probably try one of these other layers, but this is sort of just, like, that base layer. Alright, Yael, next one. So, step two… A lot of families, by the time they're talking to me, do not want to do this step, and that's totally understandable, but, like, once again, if you're kind of like, okay, we're… I've talked to the teacher, we've tried a few things. I need this to be way more formal. You can ask for what's called a SSD, Student Success Team, Student Study Team. Once again, everyone kind of has a different acronym for it. And this is where that formal documentation starts. Usually, it's kind of your teacher or teachers, if you're high school, middle school. a high administrator, and then your school psychologist or a counselor, kind of depending on which grade levels, right? And in this meeting, they're going to take… they're gonna… they're gonna take a lot of data from you, right? They're going to tell us what's going on, what does this look like, they're going to take a lot of data, right? And then they're gonna… we're going to talk about a plan at the end of this. going into that meeting, I would recommend if you have any reports from outside providers, like, let's just say you have a kiddo that's doing ABA, bring that report with you. Or if you have a kiddo that's in OT, bring… it doesn't have to be formal, just can be… bring that and share that with the team. And then… I would also suggest that you bring in some of your own data. It's really easy to kind of speak hyperbolically in these meetings. I'm a mom, I get it, I've been there. But really, if you can kind of bring it in to, like, giving them real data, like, 3 out of 5 nights, they have a 20-minute meltdown over… and even if you can spit around the reading log. that's great, right? We want to get really specific, and we want to give that team that data. So what you can ask for in this meeting, once again, all those informal accommodations. Could we try a wiggle seat? Could we try 15-minute breaks every 2 hours? If you have a kiddo that is in that bored phase, say, hey, he's got these amazing math tangram things. Can we have those set up in the back, and as soon as he finishes this, could he do this? This is the time to maybe try something a little different, bring a little spice in for them. Tier 2 supports, like, if your kiddo is one that's really struggling, if it's a really bright kid, but they're really struggling with, like, they have that dyslexic profile, maybe there is a reading group that they could join. These are all times to ask. for what are the supports that aren't an IEP, that aren't specialists, what are the supports we can have my kiddo access? And then ask for that data to be tracked. And then, before you leave that meeting, get another meeting on the book for 4 to 6 weeks, right? Because it's really easy to lose track. So, like, okay, great, when we come together? You have all those people, you get that done in that meeting. This really gives a nice, solid, concrete start to this process. All right, yeah, y'all, next one! Okay, Section 504. So, you… once again, maybe you've never had an SST meeting, right? But your kiddo… you went and you had an outside evaluation. You've been noticing for a while things… and, like, I'm gonna back up, I'm gonna put a pin there, I'm gonna back up. If you can go through these layers, I'm gonna tell you right now, your path is going to be much more streamlined, right? Because schools and these systems really like for you to kind of go through their steps, right? It doesn't always have to happen that way, but if you can… it does make the whole process a lot easier. If you've had an SST, you're more likely to sit down at a 504 meeting and have a 504 granted. just kind of, once again, instead of trying to skipping right there. Doesn't mean you have to do it that way. If your kiddo's in crisis, absolutely not, but just something to kind of keep in mind. So, Section 504 is, basically, we are now in the place that, under the Americans with Disabilities Act, we're saying you're… this kiddo. has to have accommodations to access their education, right? And I'm going to kind of give us a quick thing, is in the law, it says, basically, they need to have a major physical or mental condition that substantially limits a major life activity. That term, substantially limits is so vague, and is interpreted so different depending on which table you're sitting at with which team. Here's the thing I think we need to remember, that basically, you don't… if your kiddo is getting good grades, but they're up till 4 o'clock in the morning every single night trying to get those good grades. that it could absolutely help them qualify for a 504, right? Schools like to say, well, they're doing great. But… that is, like, part of the piece that they could… they may be exerting extraordinary effort and distress to kind of get there, so we could talk about what are the accommodations they need. Once again, this is where that paper trail is super helpful. We tried all these things, we've been working with you guys, obviously none of this is working, right? once again, we could probably talk about this particular thing for, like, hours, and we don't have it, so I'm gonna kind of jump ahead. So what do you do in a 504? You really formalize accommodation. And accommodations, I have ones that are very simple, like extended time, all the way to, like, sensory breaks built in at an interval are into a 504 accommodation. the kind of unknown piece is that you can kind of have services very much in quotation marks, so they're not going to be written in as services. If there's kind of sneaky ones, you can kind of get sometimes into 504s of maybe having an OT, a behaviorist, an SLP, come and observe your kiddo. And then consult with their teacher, right, as part of that 504+. Or weekly meetings with a counselor, a therapist, or a school psychologist, that can go into a 504. Consultation with outside service providers, that's somebody… you're going to have the school psychologist touch base with the kiddo's therapist, like, once a month. That can kind of go into a 504. And academic supports, all those Tier 2 supports, those can also go into a 504. They're not going to be written as services, they're not guaranteed like an IEP, But it's sort of like you're coming up with a plan, and that's why they're kind of services, like I said. in quotations, but they can absolutely be built into a 5. You can make a 504 pretty darn robust. Alright, and then finally, Yael, if you wanna… the good old IEP, and this alone could take… we could go here for hours. So, how is an IEP and a 504 different? is quali… basically, for an IEP, you have… there's a qualification under 13 different categories, right? There is a process to that. There's formalized testing, there's meetings, there's a lot that goes into that qualification process, right? And as if they qualify, then they have annual goals and services. Right? So that's kind of, like. variably kind of what an IEP is, right? So, how does a 2E child qualify for an under IEP under IDEA? Because a lot of times when I hear, like, when I'm kind of working on these cases, a lot of times, kiddos are kind of doing, especially in elementary school, you kind of see them, they're doing fine. Right? They're doing fine. Like, when they do those academic tests, they're kind of falling in the average to low average range, and then they have these… some of these incredible highs, right? And they're cognizant… whoa, like… So the team is kind of looking at you like, why are we talking about special education, right? So really what it needs… you need to really work with this team is to get them to use multiple pieces of data. Right? So finding a standardized writing test that's really going to show dysgraphia, that's going to be hard to do, right? So it's really helped, like, bringing in a ton of writing samples. Right? Making that part of the process, right? For them to see, oh wow, this dysgraphia is really intense. We're past the point of just needing some accommodations. This kid absolutely needs some services to help them with this writing process, right? So it's really sort of building Outside of these standardized tests, a lot of that other data that we talked about earlier. So, and then there's these other pieces that really kind of run into it, right? So, decoding the discrepancy model for qualification, right? So, the SLD qualification is the only one where the discrepancy model is still used, where you need those kind of, here's cognition, and here's a standardized score. Right? So a lot of times, like. When schools want to use that kind of universally, this is where we kind of want to pull out from just that discrepancy model, and once again, really kind of look at. Callie Turk, REEL Team — Interjection Heather, I think you muted yourself somehow. Heather Johanson — Continued: IEP nuances and related services How did I do that? That was impressive. But yeah, just kind of that, once again, outside… all that outside data is going to be really important. A lot of the times, once again, kids don't… and then for the SAI, SLP services versus related services, this one comes up a lot, too, of, like, if… a lot of times, kind of, the primary service is time with a special education teacher, right? That's like a pull-out where they're doing a small group. And that does need to be part of an IEP. But it can look a lot of different ways, right? Because if really what your kid needs is some OT, maybe some behaviorist, all of these other pieces, you can still get that SAI in as a consultation or some other ways with a special education teacher. Maybe they can do push-in. To make sure you get that piece, so that you also can get those related services. And then this is the one I run into the most that's really hard, is… but I have an outside assessment that says my child has autism, or ADHD, I should just get an IEP. Right? And this one's the hardest, I think, for families, is because they've gone through this whole process, they've got this beautiful neuropsych report in their hand, they're like, here! And because of the way IDEA is written, a school still needs to go through their own assessment, even though they're going to take your assessment into account, but they're going to go look through it, and they're going to look at those 13 categories and the qualifications for those 13 categories, and if they don't meet those criteria. they probably aren't going to qualify. There's a million ways we can kind of work around that, but it's just something to kind of think… I think, keep in mind, because I've seen so many heartbroken parents of, like, well, I've got this neuro… neuropsych, and it says my kiddo has dysgraphia, they should have an IEP. And if they can't… if we can't make it work through those 13 categories and their qualifications, they probably aren't going to qualify for an IEP. So just really keeping in mind neuropsych report doesn't guarantee IEP, and I just think that's a good thing for families to know as they go into that process, so it's not like this is the most heartbreaking thing ever. Alright, I, like I said, I breezed through probably, like, so much information, and there's, like, I could go deeper than we ever would have time for, but that's kind of just, like, in terms of schools, right? So then you've done all these things, and it's not working. You have got an IEP, you have maxed out all the services. It's not working. I'm gonna bring up our next presenter to talk about what to do next. Yael Valek — Transition to next speaker Lauren? Adam, we don't hear you. Oh, there you are. Lauren Meltzer — Private school selection: pros/cons, types, and visit tips I don't… so it… I don't know what's happening. It just did it… had a mind of its own, I wasn't touching it. So, anyway, so I'm gonna talk tonight about, the… some tips, tricks, and trends in the private school selection for twice exceptional kiddos. You can go ahead. And we've, you know, as Heather kind of talked about navigating the public school districts, I see a lot of people, when now they want to start to explore private school. So, what are the… Why, why private school? Well, to begin with, the classes… are going to be guaranteed smaller. So, in some cases, it could be 6 kids, in some kids, in some cases, it could be up to 20 at the most, but generally, it kind of floats around 15. The focus, can… depending on the type of school, there's different… we're going to go into the types of schools, but they can be more specific to the needs of your child. In the private schools, the teacher-student relationships are strong. The teachers tend to, and the staff tends to know all the students, and vice versa, and it's lovely. And there's no teaching to the test. I mean, sometimes private schools will have tests that they're matching to just make sure the kids are on track, but really there's more room for creativity. The cons are that because there's a smaller group for your kids. There's less variety in terms of who your kids can hang out with. Also, unfortunately, sometimes, administration or teachers will decide, you know what, we thought your kid was a great fit, but we're seeing that they aren't, and they can kick you out. They'll just say, this isn't a good fit, we think you need to look elsewhere. There's less resources in a lot of cases than public school, unless you're in a very specific kind of school for a certain learning challenge. And of course, the expense, although there are workarounds. I think there's more latitude in the Bay Area in terms of getting some, financial support. But, anyway, so those are kind of the general pros and cons of private school. Yeah? So, in terms of selecting, here's some of the realities. You want, as everyone has mentioned, it's really important, the most important thing is that you find a place where your child can feel safe, accepted, and understood. Without that, it doesn't matter. And then the next is really some kind of, you know, a place where they can blossom and grow, creatively, intellectually. One other thing I think's really important to keep in mind is that I work with a lot of schools where one student has left. they didn't like it, but it's the perfect place for another student. So, if… as you're kind of thinking about different private schools, keep in mind that, you need to look for your child and not get too… into… You know, if you've heard a couple people, it wasn't a good place for them. Not all schools will accept your child, and so thinking out of the box can be really good, and that's what Lisa could help you with. Also, it's best not to… a lot of people ask me, should I hide my child's struggles? And this kind of gets back to what I was saying about, you know, that the private schools can kick you out. It's best to really be forthright with what your child struggles with. Some people prefer not to say a label, and that can be fine, but you need to… you're interviewing the school as much as they're interviewing you. And so you need to find out if, indeed, what your child struggles with. Or, you know, needs acceleration is, is something they can offer. you know, one thing that, again, has been brought up, and I just want to emphasize, is there's not going to be necessarily… unfortunately, for two-wee kids, there's very few, like, bullseye schools. But you can think about what is the best for your child at the moment, and go with that. And as… yes, so indeed, it's not necessarily a forever situation, but what's the best for this year? And realizing that priorities might change. Gail, can you bring up the next one. So, where to start? I like to tell people to be a detective before you start looking at schools, really think about what kind of environment your child thrives in. Is it small group environments? Is it environments where they get to have, you know, get their wiggles out? Is it environments where, there's a lot of creativity versus more structured? Think about, you know, if they've… even in preschool, you can start getting an idea about where your kid is their best. And then also think about words that describe your child, and don't describe your child. And I say this because, like, a lot of times when you start to talk to schools. You can ask them, like, who… what is… what is one thing about your… about the kids at your school that is a must-have? And they might say something like flexibility. They might say something like curiosity, self-starter. If these aren't your kids, it's a good sign that this isn't the best place for you. So, coming up with words that describe your child and don't describe your child is really helpful. And then likewise, what's working with your child in their current environment versus what's not working? So, if they, if you love… if they love how, recess and the way they structure recess works really well for your child, well, figure out why, and see if you can find that kind of thing in the… schools you're looking at, and what's not working? Like, if there's… they're in a classroom where they don't get any breaks, that's good… good feedback. And then also, what support do they need at this moment? A lot of times, people ask me, is this a good school when they're looking at elementary for, would this school be still good if they have a high school? Focus more on what they, you know, does the school provide what you need right now? What kinds of schools actually are available, and also think about your family values. And when I say that, I'm talking about, like. Are you willing to drive different places? Are you, do you want a kind of school where there's… where there's a big community? Is that important to you? Do you, like, do you have a certain amount of money that you want to spend on education? Those are all important things when making choices. And then also, what kind of… children that your child gets along with. And can you, you know, if they really get along with other neurodiverse kids, or if they really get along with sporty kids, you know, make sure that you're keeping track of who's at this school you're looking at, and that you're seeing those kinds of kids on the playground, or hearing about them. And then, this last thing I love, I heard this at a conference recently, thinking about who your child is on their best day and on their worst day, and making sure that the school can accommodate both. So, those are the kind of detective work you should do. And Neal, can you want to move to the next… So there's different kinds of schools to consider, and there's overlap within these, but generally, there's schools that specifically say, I'm for the twice-exceptional child. And then there's schools that are for specific learning challenges. There's schools for gifted children. There's mainstream schools that have accommodations, micro-schools, and kind of this online hybrid. Those are the categories. AL? So, in terms of the twice-exceptional schools. there's a lot of schools out there that say they're… well, there's not a lot. There's a handful of schools that say they're for twice exceptional, but these can mean different things to different schools. So, in some cases, it can mean, like, they just have accelerated, curriculum. In other cases, they might, talk about everyone there is kind of like-minded in terms of, they're kind of all this, you know, they have a similar profile, and that's comforting. In other cases, you know, there's a universal design that they've, and that there's an understanding in terms of how to communicate with the students. And in some cases, there's also support from a learning specialist. But, it's important when you look at the twice-exceptional that you kind of go a little bit deeper, and we'll talk about this a little later, because they can mean different things to the different schools. Next. Now, there's also specialty schools that support specific challenges, and depending on, what your, you know, in addition to being gifted, what also makes your child twice exceptional, if that is a real need, you might explore these schools. in these schools, you're going to get real wraparound support, whether it's a dyslexia school, or ASD, or behavioral, so that's… wonderful. You're gonna have a community that really understands your child. Adhd is generally a comorbid condition that always, that they all say yes and. One of the things that's nice about these schools, too, is that the peers tend to be open-minded about differences. So unlike, other schools where there's not, where there's more, neurotypical kids that might, see your child, as a less than, these kids all really, appreciate that they have differences and the other kids around them do, too. And so because… and so because of that, kids feel like they belong. Sometimes these schools, though, will be limited in classes and electives offered. Next. Then there's also schools for gifted children. These tend to be slightly faster-paced to be interested… interesting to the gifted child. A lot of these schools will be wary of any behavioral issues. So, they might say that they'll take a twice-exceptional child, but they're also, depending on how your child shows up, they might not really be that receptive. And a lot of these schools, an IQ test would be also needed. Okay, next. And then there's these micro-schools, and these are popping up all over the place. They are small, like, when I say small, I'm talking about there could be 8 kids at the school, there could be 15 at the most. And they lend themselves… the nice thing is they lend themselves to more customized curriculum, because they have so few children that a lot of times when I talk to the people, you know, that are running these schools, they'll be like, well, if, you know, Tommy needs this, we can give him this, because they, you know, they have so many… so few children. Generally, there's a range of ages and abilities there. They don't think, okay, we just have 4th graders. A lot of times they'll, blend, K through 2 and 3, 4, 5. If they go higher, you know, then a little middle school. They're flexible. The nice thing is they're flexible about, students attending part-time or full-time. So if you are coming from homeschooling and want to be in a more micro-school environment where your child would have more socialization, they understand that, and it's a really nice step. Next step. Oops, not quite. And there's a range of backgrounds for teachers and staff, so a lot of these schools, you'll see that parent… the teachers don't necessarily… they might have a teaching credential, or they might have a PhD in something, and just be an expert in something, and so that's lovely. So… yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then there's what I call, like, these nice mainstream private schools, and these are schools that aren't necessarily, created for the twice-exceptional learner, but they can work. And, they tend to be, like, just have a, like, nice like, the people there, the teachers there, the culture is supportive and nice. The… and it can work, but it's… one of the challenges is that it's not… a lot of these schools don't have that many neurodiverse children. They might say they have a lot, but it, you know, the ratio is, you know, 20%, so there could be, you know, 1 to 5. So… When you're in a private school where there's not that many kids to start off with, it might, you know, it's just gonna limit, again, your pool of kids like your child. And because of that, there tends to be a bit more ableism, unless they've been trained otherwise. And they're also… can be, it's… what I say about the mainstream schools is if they have, your child's interests, they can really work. But if they don't, they can… it can be kind of a hard place for your child. They might not find their people. Keep going. Yeah? And lastly, there's these online or hybrid schools, and these. are, you know, these are nice for students who either want one-on-one support, or one-on-one kind of, teaching, or they want, an option for flexibility so that they can kind of come and go. And they're, you know, tend to be virtual. In some cases, it's a combination of virtual and one-on-one in person. The interesting thing is that there can, in spite… even if they are virtual, they can still have a community, and some of these places will even bring people together for events. They also, have a range of ages in the community, so, and because they… their communities aren't large, they're more like micro-schooly, you might have… the community might be 6th through 12th grade, and, like, a real combination. People that tend to do this tend to supplement hobbies outside of the school setting, because there's, you know, the, again, the… Electives are more limited than you'd find in, for example, a public school or even a private school. Next. So, when you visit, which this is, I know this is school, the time when everyone's looking for their next, you know, for a private school, here's some tips. Get a real understanding of… from the… from them about how they understand or don't understand what it means to be twice exceptional. And that really has partly to do with, can they communicate to these children in a way that the kids feel seen? And that there's not… that the kids are not feeling less than, depending on what their situation is. That there's other kids look out, as I mentioned, look for other kids they might like. You want to find teachers that look for the best in children and see whole kids. And that there's resources and flexibility, in the class for your kids' style. Universal design is great. You want to make sure that there's a parent community that embraces all kinds of kids. And then, as I mentioned before, that there's room for growth and blossoming, and offerings that match, Your child's interests. So… next, I think, yeah, that's it. Lisa Jobe — Homeschooling: philosophy, models, examples, California options Alright, so, I am coming to end here, and let me just say, this might be where people go, oh my gosh, I could never. So, let me just start by saying… These are some of my kiddos in these pictures, and I am the world's biggest planner, so I used to be a corporate lawyer, so that just tells you how Type A I am. And I admit often, that I, when my oldest was, 2 years old, I sat for 4 hours in a snowstorm, trying to get him into his private preschool so that his entire K-12 journey would be, solved. And he's… and he wasn't… he isn't even my two-week kiddo, and we switched schools, I think, 9 times before he graduated. So, you know, a lot of… I would say, most gifted and 2E homeschoolers are different than the average, general population when we think of homeschooling. And the… Recent studies say that there are probably more than 100,000 gifted 2E homeschoolers in the United States right now, and that's growing because, you know, we can create these environments that fit our kiddos' needs. So, before I get into that, I did want to just mention that with the homeschooling, and what's interesting is that I now work… I think I've worked with 300, different learners across the nation who are all in the top 1 percentile on their intelligence, exams. Most of them 2E, and almost all of them end up homeschooling for the various reasons that we know as they are looking for these different schools and things. So, before I lose a lot of you, I want to suggest that a lot of what we're… I'm going to talk about in the next 5-10 minutes can be applied also to those in after school, weekend time, summertime, all those ways in which we can, help our learners to grow and thrive. So, a couple pictures here. I like pictures. I know we're handing these, to everybody. These are my kiddos with different, homeschool friends as they were, going through their homeschooling journeys. One is now 21 and a second-year law student, and the other one just graduated from a homeschool charter, here in California is now in university. So, lots of different social pieces that gifted homeschoolers and twice exceptional homeschoolers can do. Let me skip… oh, go ahead and, jump me, please, y'all. Yep. So, where I come in with this, when I was doing my, beginning of my, doctoral studies, this, idea or framework really hits to me, and it's this idea coming from Dr. Armstrong of positive niche construction. And when he's talking about our 2E learners specifically. He's borrowing from biology, and that idea that organisms and animals really thrive when they can create their own surroundings. And same thing can apply to education. And I like this idea of, instead of creating or making our learners fit an educational environment. To somehow make it, whether it's through advocacy, like we just heard about, or pulling them out part or full time, creating an educational environment that fits our learners. So here, you can see, this is actually the same kiddo at different years, and he's the one who liked to learn best hanging upside down off a couch, so that was his best fit at the time. Go ahead and switch for me, please. So, homeschooling is really strength-based, interest-focused learning at its core. I did a two-wee conference, at William & Mary, my first one, and I, used the term personalized learning, and a bunch of classroom teachers said, that's not… that's not personalized learning, you're doing homeschooling. And, we thought, gosh, we're using the wrong term, but there's really no… no more pure, personalized learning, than creating this a la carte methodology for our kiddos. So we really, one of the benefits of having a little bit more of this child-centered time, or creating this environment for them, is this idea that, especially with their high abilities. These kiddos thrive on time and space, whether it's time and space to process, or to explore, or to discover their interests. There's a gift of time that we can create in these different pockets when we think about, the space where they can, you know, explore and discover what interests they have that are valuable. And that they're not just, you know, able to… these interests can be valuable and not be, in those four core subjects of, you know, math, ELA, science, and social studies, right? Here's my kiddo who has insisted he's not going to be an engineer because he doesn't want… somebody to tell him how to do engineering, but he is spending a couple weeks capturing NOAA data from a satellite, and won some national award for creating some system for fire-ravaged communities. But again, he needed that space to be able to tinker and do something on his own where he couldn't find a class to teach it. So, when we think about opportunities to… for our learners, whether it's homeschooling or in different environments, one of the, core frameworks for education is this idea of self-determination theory and motivation. And when we have space, we can really help our learners to focus on intrinsic motivation, or love of learning, and not just be capturing those grades or feeling like they're identified by labels. Which we know labels happen in life, but to take a little bit of that pressure off can be really, enlightening, especially for our 2E learners, who sometimes live under a lot of labels and pull-outs and things like that. Page flip, please. Thank you. So you do not have to read everything on this page, but I really like thinking about homeschooling as an a la carte model. Contrary to that image we all have of jumpers and apple pie. Most of our gifted and chewy homeschoolers actually end up either farming out or picking and selecting what's great out there for our kiddos. And so, just like at a buffet, I might take 3 desserts and… only eat one and put two on the side of my plate. That's perfectly okay when you're doing this a la carte type of learning. And so, just as Lauren and Heather mentioned, between microclasses and online, and one-on-one, and tutors, and all these different ideas, you can pick and choose what works great for your kiddos. Some of my PDA, friends who are young, some of them really thrive on online classes or in one-on-one. Others really thrive only in, you know, live, right, person-to-person. Most of my learners, actually, who are 2E really thrive also in dual enrollment once they get to 9th grade, and a lot of them are able to do dual enrollment, under different exceptions before 9th grade. Oftentimes, our early college or our dual enrollment fits our TUE learners better than a traditional high school. That college setup tends to work better with all that executive functioning that we think about that's really hard, especially in those middle and high school years. So, there's lots of different opportunities here. Go ahead and flip, please. And so, if you think about it, that you're not just buying curriculum or doing what everyone did at COVID, but you're really thinking about what is this child's interests, what are their strengths. How do they like to learn? When do they like to learn? What would I like to teach? Or maybe I have a full-time career and my spouse does too, and what… what other opportunities do we have to make homeschooling work? And it works really well with all sorts of different types of, ways. I had a friend who was a doctor, and her husband was an attorney, and they did a lot of their schoolwork with their learners on the weekends. I have several families who are world schoolers. One's teaching on a yacht, as we speak right now, and others are flying between different houses in different continents. So there's definitely different ways you can make this work. Again, I'm just throwing some slides in here. I know we're going to share the slides later, so just some ideas of thinking outside the box in what a journey of learning might look like, besides just being at that kitchen table. So we'll go ahead and skip ahead for now. This is a kind of a fun thought for anyone who is thinking, what the heck is homeschooling? This is one of my favorite examples of a curated science semester for a two-week kiddo who has a really specific interest, because a lot of ours do. This kiddo knew more, he was 9, and he knew more about mushrooms than I think all of us here in this Zoom together. And so, when we think about homeschooling for this kiddo, he had, or she had, a specific curriculum. They had a one-on-one mentor. Which, by the way, the science museums and the parks have a lot of expert docents, many retired, who will definitely talk to our kiddos happily for free or a small cost about their passions. This one had at-home, labs. Some online courses through what we call MOOCs. Harvard and other schools have a lot of free online classes. Now that you can audit, you know, get credit, but you can certainly learn a lot. Audiobooks, documentaries, and then learning outside the box a little bit with this kind of moving him into trees. So there's ways you can kind of think about and mold and try different things with this a la carte approach to see what works and what doesn't for your learners. And again, this is something you can apply whether you're choosing to homeschool all the time. Whether maybe you have an agreement with the school you can pull out part-time, or something to add on, extra for some of that, enrichment. Turn the page, please. So, benefits of homeschooling. Again, here are my kiddos. There's, the one in his makerspace, where he spends a good portion of… or he spent a good portion of his high school time. He's also a regional leader in scout, so there's lots of leadership opportunities for homeschoolers. He's also on swim team for 15 years, and then he became a coach on the swim team. So definitely, all those opportunities you could have in traditional school, you can have as a homeschooler. One of the beauties for a lot of our TUI learners when they become homeschoolers is they realize that they don't need 504s or IEPs or pull-out programs anymore, and that can be very liberating for a lot of them. This guy here, he's severely dysgraphic, but it didn't, stop anything that he did. We just didn't have as many. Or really didn't have any worksheets and things that he would typically have needed to do in school. He also took several APs, which may have been barriers for him in traditional school. He started college at 13, and we did go through those paperwork processes so that he could have accommodations at College Board and in college, and those are really easy to do, even as homeschoolers. A lot of my learners are very asynchronous, and that's especially true of our 2E kiddos, where they… a lot of them are maybe 11 and doing calculus, but they're writing, like, they're, you know, in 4th grade standards. Super normal with our two-e kiddos, and homeschooling can do that really well. Transcripts also have a little more flexibility, even in high school for that. So that flexibility can really make it very easy. A lot of the kiddos that I work with, now that they're starting to connect, I usually don't even introduce them by age or grade, because it really doesn't define them in any way. It's the interests that really define them and help them connect together. Let's see, and then, when they go back to school, that's usually very easy. When they go back, even in the middle of high school, it's a little bit harder, but there's a lot of ways they can do that. So you can always go back to school. And just like with any program that we're talking about here today, your public district home school always has to take you. So you always have a fallback when, that you can at least, you know, say… say to them on their… on your bad days, right? It really does help our learners discover their passions and to fall back in love with learning, and that's really what we want as they head off after 12th grade, or whatever we consider to be the end of their schooling before they have, before they chart their own path. Can you flip the page for me, please? There are… I see a question that I… I can't read at the same time in chat, so if you ask me later, I… I promise… Sounds great. Alright, there are 3 ways to homeschool in California, so if anybody is thinking about that, I just want to cover this super quick for you. So, in California, you can homeschool completely independently, and I know this is pretty shocking to a lot of people, but really, you don't have to teach them, your children. Standards, you don't have to do testing, you really have a lot of freedom. Which means that you can also graduate them whenever you want, and that is an official graduation under the state, and officially it is a transcript when you do it. You don't have any reason to follow A to G standards. You don't have any value in choosing an accredited school, not even for universities. It's all very, very flexible with that. If you are currently homeschooling between October 1st and October 15th, which I think is tomorrow. Technically, you have to file an affidavit on a state website. If you need that tonight, let me know. If you are not homeschooling as of tomorrow, you don't have to worry about that. You can start anytime during the year and just refile again the following year. You'd buy all your own curriculum. The downside is you don't have any educational support, which is a little bit, hard for a lot of our families as they come out. So there are two other options that a lot of families choose. The second option is a public charter program, and so this is a non-classroom-based charter, or non-classroom-based charter program in California. There's been some… some legal stuff going on in the Capitol on this, recently, and I believe Ocean Grove is the most, frequent charter that I see in the Bay Area that a lot of our two-e kiddos are in. So technically, your student would be a public student, but you would be homeschooling generally at home. You would have a teacher that you would meet about once every 3 or 4 weeks who would oversee and help you with curriculum. And you would be able to get some free curriculum or enrichment activities from an approved vendor list. So a lot of people will join the charter for that, you know, the financial piece, which can be really nice in helping you with your homeschooling. You can also get IEPs and 504s through your charter. Typically, they offer those virtually and not as robustly as in a school, but they are available in that same way that a regular public school would follow. Go ahead and flip. And because, I'm here today, there's the umbrella program. This is the third program, and there are different umbrellas that are also filed as private schools, but they don't have to follow all of the requirements of a live, in-person school, so, all those, You know, our student ratios and that are not, as regulated. And so there's different homeschool umbrellas where you can get some educational support and not feel like you're homeschooling on your own. And so, mine is actually Sequoia Gifted Academy. It is the first umbrella school in the nation specifically for our highly, profoundly gifted TUI kiddos. Because oftentimes, teachers don't understand our kiddos, and even in the homeschool charter world, still, sometimes they don't understand our asynchronicity or our kiddos' need for autonomy. So, I won't spend a lot of time on the umbrella right now, but these are the three different ways if you choose to homeschool. And then also, if you were to pull out, partway from your school, some schools are starting to let our kiddos do that. for either half a day, or a day a week, or something like that. That's something you could end up asking for, in your IEP meetings, for example. And, then you could also do homeschooling in addition to going to school for part of those times. So right now, I'm going super quickly. I don't know how many people here are interested in this piece, but I want to make sure the slides are in here if you have any questions on that. I think there are questions, so I'm going to wrap up and go right to those yellow, if that works best for you. Yep. Okay. Yael Valek — Transition to Q&A I'm gonna stop sharing, Kelly, I don't know if you have time to spotlight our speakers. We have a lot of questions. I'll start with Heather, what happens with 504 IEP plan? Or I guess this, actually, sorry, this is for Lauren and Heather. What happens to IEP or 504 plans if you switch to a private school? I know you touched on this. Heather Johanson — Q&A: IEP/504 in private schools, redo 504, ignored private reports, public support for gifted, district-paid private school Okay. I guess I can talk from, like, the… that if there's kind of designations of schools, right? There's something called a non-public school, right? So if your child has moved to something called a non-public school through their IEP, their IEP very much, obviously, kind of is dictating that placement, it's still in place, that's what's going to be happening, right? If you go to a private school. because they are not part of, like, the Department of Education, they get to kind of play by different rules. They might have, like, a student support plan, but their IEP or their 504 is not going to be… recognize in the same way. A lot of the time, those schools were like, oh, let us take a look, let's see what we can do, here's some accommodations. But there's not the same legal jurisdiction in private schools as there is in the public schools. So when you kind of… if you do make that move. Right? Your IEP doesn't, like, disappear, right? It's kind of just things like you put it in the freezer, right? And if you decide to come back to public school, you take it out of the freezer, and you say to public school, we're back, and here was our last IEP, and they kind of pick up that process from there. Lauren, I think you probably have… A piece to that. Yes. Basically, in a nutshell, yes. Actually, a lot of times, kind of, it's kind of, once again, those layers of support, right? You try… you had that SST meeting, things aren't working, you go to that 504, and if we're still seeing, like, things are not working, this child is still not successful, then you can put into writing a request. for an assessment, absolutely. So just because you've agreed to a 504 does not mean you're locked in. You're never locked in, ever. Yeah, this one, it's… this is so case-specific, right? Like, I think it's… I have found, like. so basically, you come to a school district and say, hey, I have this report, it says my kiddo has all of this going on, I want them to have an IEP. And they say, okay, here's your assessment plan, we're going to assess them for an IEP, right? And they go through their whole assessment process. based on, like, what we've come up with, we don't think they qualify. And then if you're not in agreement with that, you can request something called an IEE. Oh my gosh, this is where my brain just starts. Lisa, help me. Educational Evaluation. Thank you, I had 4 IEPs today, my brain's no longer working, no words. And then that process kind of kicks in, and then there's somebody else that's going to kind of come in and make recommendations based on what they found. And that person, kind of, this is where you really want to find the right IE assessor. This part's really important, is you want them to really look at that past report, what the school did, you want them to really get back into the data to potentially kind of Say, why this kiddo needs special education. Oh, it's just… it's so complicated and nuanced, and I… that's… I really think that's why it's just… by the time you're sitting down at that IEP table. you want there to be such a much more robust view of this kiddo, right? Like, the more you can kind of… and sometimes it's not possible, but when it is possible, that collaboration with your… if you're elementary with your teacher, or, like, somebody on a team, so they really get your kid, because once you have kind of a… a person on that team that's really working with you. They're almost working almost as your advocate, too, because they can give that nuance. Because that's the thing with our two-week kid, is there's nuance, right? On paper, sometimes they look really fat. They're great test takers sometimes. They're gonna blow… I've had teachers, I've heard it so many times, an RSP teacher say, I've never had a kid go this far on this standardized test before, right? And they're just blown away with what they can do, but sure, one-on-one with this teacher, and there's snacks, and it's great, and it's lovely, they're cruising, but you put them in the classroom, they're under their desk, because they're totally freaked out, right? So I think that's the nuance we need to bring to those tables, so people can kind of get what we're asking for. Yeah, it is. I mean, it's not… is it fair? No, but is it kind of… Is it the reality! there's no law around it, right? Like, it used to be we kind of had different programs, a lot of those have kind of, especially as budgets have been cut, and, like, those have very much shrunk over time. I think, honestly, this is where that first layer I talked about is pretty key, like, especially with your elementary school kiddo. Public school teachers are pretty burnt, I'm just gonna be really honest about it, but if you show up and you have the thing for your kiddo, like, here's the tangrams, can he do these? Here's this really cool book where he's got these insane math puzzles. Can he have this? Can he do this? Like, like, if you're kind of solving the problem, you're gonna get so much further. with that, like, that is going to be kind of the way I think you can handle some of that boredom piece in a… in a very kind of… lower lift way, is really partnering up with your teacher, and not, like, just saying, can you do this for me? But if you kind of come in and have the problem solved, you're gonna get a lot more lean-in, for sure. Oh, boy. So, basic… I mean, that's… that's a really in-depth question. In… if I'm going, like, up. If you have an IEP, and they are not making progress on their goals, they are not accessing their education, that is when a school district would be under obligation to pay for a different placement. that's… there's a million layers within that, but that's kind of the big canned nutshell piece. It's a lot… I've had, like, parents kind of reach out to me, and their kiddo's never been in a public school ever, and they're like, we want to have our public schools pay for this private school. that's gonna be a lot tougher than if you have gone through the public school, gone through their layers, you've given their… their… their thing a try, a real honest try. That is where I've seen placements made much easier, versus, like, well, we just want this to happen now. So, that's a very tiny answer for a very big question. Lauren Meltzer — Q&A: IEP/504 in private schools, mainstream fit, one-on-one schools, Bridges and 2E programs Yeah, so, I mean, I think that the private schools, depending on which, are going to try to accommodate the kinds of things that would be in your IEP or 504, it just won't be… have the legal legally, you won't get the same kind of accommodations, it's just that… but they do try, you know, especially if they have learning support, they're gonna try to accommodate you. Yeah, so, I think it's, Again, you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you, and so if you can get, Someone that's their learning specialist or support, and have a conversation with them, and explain, kind of, what you know, where your child's at, what support they need, what accommodations they need, and make sure that that is part of the culture. That's the best way, I think. So, I think that, you know, I would think about what, like, in terms of prioritization, does this school have, would your child thrive, if there are certain interests? Like, they really want to play in a sports team at school, or they really want to do plays at school. I think that would be something to look for. Also… How they accommodate children that have emotional needs that, are… you know, that a public school might not have the bandwidth to accommodate, so I would think about that, and… because, you know, it really, it just depends so much on the school and the environment, and as Lisa said, looking at the environment itself. You know, some of these classes will… these mainstream schools will have buckets of. fidgets. Just, you know, they're… even though not all their kids need fidgets, they kind of, normalize it, so that would be another thing I would look for, or, you know, like, your, you know, whatever, there's… there's different things that they might normalize by just having them accessible to all the students. I do think that I have found that some of the micro schools that are for the twice-exceptional can actually give almost a better experience, because They're small enough that you can still get the customization, but they tend to… understand the twice-exceptional Child. The fusion isn't just for, you know, the fusion is kind of a big catch-all for lots of different kinds of learners and, you know, kids that have the, you know, challenges that… where the public school's not going to make sense. kids that are in sports, and they need the flexibility, and… and everything. So, you know, as Lisa said, they are going to be more teach-to-the-test, if it be. Yeah, I have also heard that Bridges is, you know, Bridges was developed with the TUI learner in mind. Some of the other schools have kind of morphed into that, because they've… a lot of times they've started small, and they've realized, wow, we have these… issues, but then these kids are really bright, and so we'll call ourselves TUI. So, but they still can meet your child's needs. And they also might find community there. You just have to be discerning. Lisa Jobe — Q&A: IEE nuance, social priorities, mainstream fit, gifted support, one-on-one/micro/co-ops, district-paid placements, homeschooling breadth, acceleration, Bridges fit, learning profiles Okay, there you go, thanks! to be read. I'm looking forward to talking with families. This actually just came up for me, last week, or a couple weeks ago, and that is, I've seen now where, it's very common for our two-wee kiddos to have that full, individualized, assessment from a psychologist. and then go to the school, and the school might deny it, that, you know, maybe our kiddo has a diagnosis of autism from a psychologist, and then they go and they do that, child find, the, you know, I believe that my child's autism is… affecting their, learning and want the, child fined assessment. And the school, sometimes will say, no, we don't think you… we don't think your child qualifies, your child has good grades. So… It's one of those, you know, I play an attorney, but I actually don't play an attorney. I have a law degree, I was an attorney, so I know the law really well, but I'm not here as an attorney. But, the Department of Education, federally, before it got closed down, has some letters called the Delisle Letters, and, There's also case law in California that says a, 2E or gifted child's good grades do not bar them from the IEP, from the IDEA, the Individuals with Disabilities and Education Act. So they cannot use the fact that your child's not failing, which is often something parents are told. And if they do deny it, then they do need to go back, and they need to under… they need to recognize that your child was diagnosed by an outside evaluation. So they can't say, well. I'm not looking at anything, and your child doesn't fall into IDEA. If the parent says, my child was diagnosed with, you know, autism, and we believe it's affect… affecting them. When the school denies them, they need to have considered that private report also, in that Before denying it. Otherwise, yes, they might make you go through all those autism reports the parents have to do, and all those pieces that might feel redundant. But I wanted to just throw that in. That was a little nuance in when they need to consider that outside versus when they can completely go… completely on their own in their school evaluation. Yeah. Have you seen that too, either of you, maybe? I would first just say, especially in California, and probably all across, you know. a gifted program doesn't usually mean that our kids' gifted needs are being met in any way, really. I don't think I've really met anyone who feels that a gifted program alone meets that. And then the social piece, you know, that is really hard, and if that is the… again, if we go back to that framework of those five environments, if that's the leading thing for our kiddos, for this kid at this time, if that… if that's, you know, important to them, I would prioritize that. But also keep in mind, right, build up some scaffolding, because, gosh, you know, at some point, they're not going to be in the same class. At some point, you know, chances are, especially in the Bay Area, somebody might move. So you want to build up some scaffolding and not have that be the sole reason. You know, we can certainly do play dates outside, we can get together, we can do… A lot of different ways to nurture that friendship, but that would be my two cents, and I'll just throw it to both of the others, see if you have anything to add. I do a lot of school advocacy, with that, kind of profile, and I would say, especially with the anxiety and that. You know, that middle school's a hard time because there's a lot going on, a lot of bell changes, and those kind of pieces. So definitely, you know, thinking about what the physical environment looks like can be really important for that learner, for that family. But really, you know, different schools and different 2E things, right? My dysgraphic son would have different needs than perhaps somebody who has general anxiety disorder, for example. So that would be my general framework. I think I lost the pin of that question. Yeah, I'll just add in there, I know a lot of people who've tried Fusion and then gone to homeschooling, or tried schools like that. The one thing that's interesting is, you know, again, this word accreditation kind of catches people's eyes. Generally, if a school is accredited. It usually means that they have had to go through and have their curriculum kind of standardized in some way, and so the curriculum then becomes less flexible. So a lot of families pay a lot of money to basically use what I call a canned curriculum. And so they may be done with 9th grade in, you know, February, or what have you, but it's really a very, kind of… I don't want to say basic level, because that's not fair, but it's a very standards-level, kind of. curriculum that is not, modified to the child's strengths, interests, preferences, or anything like that. So, it's really a way of taking what's in most schools for the most part, and then going one-on-one with it. That's generally the model. And then again, a lot of those private schools, their teachers, really, unfortunately, the price point and what these teachers are getting paid and their expertise not to say that about Fusion specifically, but in a lot of these types of schools that have popped up, there's a big disconnect. So it's kind of a big corporate thing, but our teachers aren't necessarily super experienced. if they love what they're doing and they're passionate, just like everything we're talking about, they can be amazing teachers, but the curriculum generally is not going to be specialized for the child. It's just going to be presented more of in a one-on-one way, which can help around some of the 2E learning differences. Yeah, and the micro-schools, and that gets into the co-ops, which you saw a lot of the pictures that I was sharing, microschools and co-ops. are very similar. The kind of the main difference is a micro school is you hire somebody to teach the classes, and the parent drops off, and the co-op, parents kind of barter their time and their specialty. So, like, you can guess I end up teaching a lot of the government classes, or English classes, because those were my backgrounds. And so, the micro schools, one thing I want to just add to what Lauren's sharing is a lot of them are very project-based, too, and that really can, be a nice fit for our two e-learners. And I know Lydie in Burlingame is actually adding some project-based learning. pieces, which has been kind of exciting and fun. So, even if you have that kind of homeschool, and you wanted, like, a more… a thing to kind of go do, that could be an option. Something about the a la carte, especially once they get to high school, it's like, okay, how do we put together this… Right concoction for you. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and I have a lot of families who have done that, and I can tell you, as a lawyer, I always say, as a lawyer, I always say, don't litigate, right? And it's kind of the same for that. By the time… usually you do need a lawyer. There's very few in California who are great. Woodsmall is really the most well-known. But the process is very long, and it's expensive, and frankly, by the time you go through that process, you may have spent as much in legal fees and time off and all those things then. You might come out sometimes somewhat close in the end, I would say. Would you say, Heather? Yeah, so first of all, it's probably in your head, and second, it's actually okay in California. That's not my personal philosophy, I would say, but that is perfectly fine. You know, you don't really have to jump through all of the hoops. really, once you get to a certain level, you really think about what their end goal is. And so, a lot of our kiddos end up going to community college, kind of, as the next step, and when they do that kind of as an early college piece that fits really well with our TUE learners, and then your university, if that's what your end game is. will only look, really, at that 2-year degree, and they don't even look at what they did in high school, so a lot of unschoolers, or people who didn't actually go and do four years of school in high school, end up with amazing degrees. One of the young women I know, she unschooled through high school. And then went to community college for 2 years, and then went off to Hilo to be a marine scientist, degree, and has worked for the Smithsonian since then. So, you don't have to step through it in the same way, but by having some educational support, they can help guide you with where they can get that history, or that… whatever it is that you are not teaching. And again, most of our TUI learners do have outside, teachers and support. I happen to know y'all has a teacher for a couple of her kiddos. And I have a 16-year-old that I really love, who's really fun, so, among others. Yeah, so definitely, you know, and usually, I have to be honest, too, most of us farm out, I did too, because, our kids listen to other people better than they listen to us sometimes. So, yeah, no worries. So this is almost all of my kids. Like, almost all of my 300 kids I worked with. You know, math is the most common, because it's very step-based, and it's very common to start jumping, and a lot of our kiddos, especially before algebra, can jump multiple grades very quickly. Both mine did, too. The problem becomes, if you're not willing to grade, accelerate, you're going to run out real quickly. And that happens both at the elementary level, then it happens at the high school level. At the elementary level, keep in mind that most math teachers and other teachers are only certified to teach K-8, which means that once you hit 9th grade math. They technically can't teach that, if he's, you know, your child's in 5th grade, or whatever they're in. And so then you end up either having to farm them back and forth to the different schools, or you just have this huge disconnect, and usually it doesn't line up, and it becomes a nightmare for parents at some point. And then when you get to high school, you also have to think about the fact that, you know, when you look ahead to college. There are certain, especially if they're a public school student, they need to hit those A to Gs, and, colleges will only count what's on your last 4 years, or your high school transcript. So, at some point, a lot of our math, really mathy kids run out of math. So I have, for example, a 13-year-old who's auditing classes at Columbia, another one who's auditing classes at University of Washington, but they're kind of stuck. They physically can't get 4 years on their transcript. because they've even run out at the community college level, and they're only 13. So, you end up kind of creating a little bit of this, so to the extent you can learn out instead of up, that can be helpful, too, in the meantime. But it's pretty… it's a pretty common problem. So, so Bridges specifically, so I do know Bridges, I've actually done research with Dr. Baum at Bridges, with the Bridges Kids. You know, Bridges, I think, I don't know if my Bridges cohorts would say this, or my professors, but Bridges has a reputation, I think, as, generally, having a lot of autistic kiddos, and that's probably true, but I have seen the range there, and I have seen… honestly, I do… I work with kids who have the 160 plus IQs, and I've… seen the most brilliant, brilliant learner I've ever seen in my life, at Bridges. So, they definitely can handle, those, those, exceptional kiddos, too. But yeah, but I, I mean, they certainly know, and their professor, their teachers are trained on, mo… you know, all from dysgraphia to dyslexia to, you know, the emotional, things. So, yeah, I think Bridges is a great fit for all that. Some schools aren't, though, so some schools are known to be more for, like, ADHD. Schools in Philadelphia, for example, Davidson and Stanford Online take a lot of our highly profoundly gifted kiddos, and they can be a little bit more difficult for our kiddos who have, especially those EF issues. dysgraphia pieces like that. So it's always good to talk to, veteran parents. But there is a lot of, kids who come in and out of those programs with various, 2E, needs of different kinds. Daniel, can I throw one more thing in? is that both Bridges, Academy Lab, and Sequoia both do, a suite of tools assessments, which are learning profiles. Dr. Baum actually created it with Dr. Robin Shader, and they're really great for being able to do all those things, to bring these reports and these advocacy profiles in, and really, a lot of families are successful when they're able to bring in this full picture of how their children learn differently, and what they need in those five environments, and to have that conversation in those SST meetings and that. So, if that's something that families are interested in, either at Bridges Lab or through Sequoia, I'm happy to answer more questions about that, too. Thank you, thanks for. Yael Valek — Q&A facilitation and closing remarks Kelly, I don't know if you have time to spotlight our speakers. We have a lot of questions. I'll start with Heather, what happens with 504 IEP plan? Or I guess this, actually, sorry, this is for Lauren and Heather. What happens to IEP or 504 plans if you switch to a private school? I know you touched on this. Okay? I feel like I messed up and agreed to a 504 plan that is not ideal to my son. Can I get a redo? what if the public school ignores private report data? You touched on this. We have a ton of questions, so I pre… I'm just gonna move us along. Thank you. Best not to hide your child's struggles. What's the best way, I think this is for Lauren, to approach talking about our kids' reality in the high school admissions process? Thank you. And then, okay, my son is happy at the school he's at, even though they don't have anything special for giftedness, etc, because he has a very good friend there. He's 9 years old, I'm worried that if I change schools, that one friend will not be there anymore, and he will be stressed. What's a good framework to reason about this? I think… I think they're asking, so I think Lauren mentioned there are nice mainstream schools. What, what, what kind of 2E kids might fit that versus needing, like, a more specialized school? Good points. Can someone speak to what kind of 2E kid might find a good fit at a nice mainstream school? Detail. My son doesn't have externalizing behaviors, but he does have anxiety and can get overwhelmed and dysregulated. Looks like he's crying going under his desk. He's in 5th grade. I think this is probably Heather. When is public school required to pay for your child's private school? Lauren, I don't know if you… do you know of any East Bay, Berkeley, Oakland area microschools, or is there a directory of microschools? Or should they reach out to you, or… One of the worries, I guess this is for Lisa, one of the worries that I have is if I homeschool, I will end up not teaching them things like history, art, and writing, and he's going to only learn science and math. Is that a real worry, or just made up in my head? Sometimes. I want to acknowledge that it's 8.30, but there's two more questions, so if you guys are okay to hang on for just a couple more minutes. Thoughts on single-subject acceleration in public school that's otherwise a good fit for now? Whole grade skip doesn't feel right for numerous reasons, but advanced math instruction is a particular area of need. Heather, did you want to add anything, or should we go? Okay, so the last question… Can you speak to whether 2E programs are designed to support the full range of twice-exceptional learners? In particular, how well do environments like bridges meet the needs of profoundly or exceptionally gifted students, as opposed to those who are just one or two standard deviations above the mean? Thank you all so much, and for everyone who attended tonight, as you can see, there's not a perfect fit, and I think REEL always recommends, like you guys all said, to pick what is your biggest priority right now, and optimize for that, and what are you able to supplement outside on your own, because there isn't going to be one school. If you find it, please tell me right away, that meets, you know, all the TUI learners' needs, and of course, everyone has such diverse needs. So… Awesome, thank you. So thank you all so much. This was so enlightening and helpful. I hope everyone that attended and is watching the recording, got their question answered, and if not, please reach out. Callie posted all their contact info in the chat, and we'll send it out in our email as well. And thank you all so much for sharing your expertise with everyone.