Twice-exceptional (2e) Dyslexic Discussion Panel
- REEL Team
- Sep 10
- 12 min read
Video Transcript:
Video Transcript:
Yael Valek: So, Fernette began her career as a neurologist and scientist, and it was only when her children had learning challenges that she and her husband, Dr. Brock Eide, became interested in using neuroscience-informed, strength-based strategies to encourage and support students and their families.
Conventional ways of testing and education overlooked strengths. Dr. Fernette Eide is the co-author and co-founder of Dyslexic Advantage—the book, the nonprofit, and now the movie—as well as co-founder of NeuroLearning.com.
Anna began her career in the early '90s as a public school elementary teacher in Palo Alto, California. Always passionate about literacy, when her bright son struggled to learn how to read, she was on a mission to help him. That was the beginning of her journey to understand the strengths and challenges of a dyslexic learning profile and the science-based methods that lead to grade-level reading. Anna ultimately founded Touchstone Learning in Redwood City, California, a small school designed to meet the unique needs of gifted dyslexic students, preparing them to transition to a school of their choice.
With over 11 years of experience as a public school teacher, Mandy brings a deep understanding of education and student development to her current role as a learning specialist at Schwab Learning Center, part of the Children's Health Council. She works closely with high school students and adults, offering personalized strategies for learning and executive functioning, particularly for individuals with ADHD, dyslexia, and other learning differences. Her approach is rooted in the belief that every person has unique strengths, and Mandy is passionate about helping each learner unlock their full potential through tailored support that honors who they are and how they learn best.
Yael Valek: Welcome, we're so excited to have you here. Audience, feel free to put questions in the chat, and we will ask them after we ask a few questions of our own.
So, you are all former teachers and scientists. What struck you about this film, and what kinds of experiences that it touches on led you to do the work that you do today?
Anna Cencioso: I really resonated with those women. My son, who ended up being dyslexic, was a super bright kid, and yet he was not learning how to read. I was using everything I had learned in teacher college—practically hitting him over the head with it—and it wasn't working. I didn’t understand why.
When I asked the school, they didn’t want to test him. They said there was no problem. And when they did test him, I said, “His dad is dyslexic. I think he’s dyslexic.” They said, “We don’t like to use those labels because that really pigeonholes kids.” This was so typical. They looked at the data and said, “He’s average intelligence. It’s going to take him a while to figure out how to read.” But I’d been a teacher for a long time, and this didn’t strike me as an issue of intellect. That threw me into a place of realizing the school wasn’t the answer. They didn’t understand what I was seeing, and they weren’t listening to me. They made it seem like I wanted him to be dyslexic. What I wanted was for him to be recognized. That got me started with a reading therapist. I saw what she was doing with him, and I could see the progress. Then I thought, “You know what? I want to change the focus of my teaching because I want to help these kids.”
Fernette Eide: It’s so crazy. It’s really common, but there can be variations that mess people up—whether it’s more writing, more reading—it changes over time. But the lack of awareness, identification, and importantly, teachers being able to teach the right methods is just shocking. Even in private schools, even in areas with a lot of money invested in education, there’s this philosophy: “Don’t say it’s dyslexia.”
As far as I can tell, it came from neuropsychologists. They said, “Don’t say it’s dyslexia. Say it’s a reading achievement problem.” But that disconnects from the science. There’s a wealth of research about the strengths in people with dyslexia, and if you don’t identify it specifically, you don’t get targeted intervention. Reading difficulties that aren’t dyslexia often require different approaches. Lumping all these different kids together—especially in twice-exceptional situations—means they don’t get their strengths recognized, or their weaknesses. These kids are perceptive. They know something isn’t making sense. If you don’t explain why certain things are hard, they internalize it. One kid in our movie said, “I guess I must be one of the dumb kids.” That’s one of the most common things we hear.
Anna Cencioso: The movie really resonated. The slowness of trying to get ahold of people—it was painful seeing the mom with all the cards, not knowing how to break things down. She’d never been told. Why? There are books and step-by-step guides now, but no one talked to her. And yet, so much money was spent on education.
Mandy Hoff: One quote from the movie really stood out: “Kids excel where they find joy.” I’d add, “Where they feel like they belong.” That was a huge part of why I loved teaching—creating a classroom where everyone belonged. Maybe they didn’t like math, but I’d say, “Let’s try this anyway.” I loved creating that family. But with 30 kids, there’s only so much time. I valued working one-on-one and seeing that growth. That’s why I became a learning specialist.When kids act out, it’s a sign that a need isn’t being met. Especially for kids with dyslexia, school can be procedural and hard. It doesn’t fit their strengths. They act out and get penalized, when really adults need to ask, “What does this behavior mean?”
Anna Cencioso: Yes! They’re trying to get their needs met. “I’m not learning, so what can I do to not feel dumb?” They act out, become the joker, pretend they’re bored. What they’re really saying is, “Can somebody help me?”
Yael Valek: Why is dyslexia so misunderstood or missed in the 2E population? How do traditional identification methods fall short?
Anna Cencioso: Smart kids compensate. They might have great background knowledge and guess what a passage says. They can make it seem like they understood, even if they couldn’t read multi-syllable words. Writing about it is even harder.
Reading tests often don’t pinpoint phonological awareness. And if the screener doesn’t have good phonological awareness themselves, they can’t identify it in others. Kids with stealth dyslexia are bright and compensate well. But when they hit science in middle or high school, they face long words they can’t decode. They haven’t been given the tools. It’s not rocket science—it’s the science of reading. But not enough teachers are trained.
Fernette Eide: Screening in schools is helpful but not comprehensive. DIBELS is often used to say whether you’re “in or out.” Comprehensive testing is expensive and time-consuming. There’s concern about privilege—should resources go to students who can’t read at all?
But I think all students should get what they need. It’s unfair when systems pit one group against another. Students with high IQ and low performance due to dyslexia experience existential angst. Doctors might see a kid and think they’re fine, but parents see the long-term struggle.
Some parents go nuclear—homeschooling, charter schools—because they see their kids disappear. It’s shocking.
Mandy Hoff: Many fall through the cracks due to past ignorance. Even now, they mask so well. Adults in top colleges have dyslexia and don’t know. They blame themselves. When they’re finally diagnosed, it’s a revelation.
They memorize word shapes. That’s why testing nonsense words is important—it reveals whether they’ve truly learned to decode.
Everyone deserves to have their needs met. 2E learners may seem fine, but dropout rates are high. As school gets harder, gaps widen.
Anna Cencioso: School screenings aren’t the end-all. Private testing is expensive, but dyslexia screenings are more affordable. With that knowledge, parents can move forward confidently. They can say, “I’m not crazy. This is what’s happening.”
Yael Valek: What happens when you don’t screen and support kids early?
Anna Cencioso: Most kids enter our school in fourth grade. That’s late. The developmental window for adult literacy starts closing around age 9. It’s not impossible, but it’s improbable they’ll reach adult-level reading without remediation.
Teachers mean well, but they say, “They just need more time.” No! Early intervention is critical. If remediated by first or second grade, the sky’s the limit. Their self-esteem is intact, and they can reach their potential.
By fourth grade, they feel bad about themselves. They think they’re lazy or immature—labels teachers give them because they don’t understand why smart kids aren’t reading.
Trust your gut. If you think there’s a problem, there probably is. Dyslexia runs in families. If one child has it, check siblings too.
Mandy Hoff: In third grade, kids shift from learning to read to reading to learn. If they can’t read, they fall behind. The gaps grow. High school is already hard. Add in negative self-talk from teachers and parents—it’s heartbreaking.
Fernette Eide:I'm all for early intervention, totally for that. But I also want to say—because there are some parents out there who maybe weren’t identified themselves, or they have kids who are in high school, or even college. The movie touched on concerns about the prison pipeline, but there are also many adults who were never identified. That’s just the name of the game. Some people look back and say, “There were all these doors that were closed to us.” But because we had an eclectic community of dyslexic adults through Dyslexic Advantage, I was able to interview many of them. Some, just by pure grit and refusal to take no for an answer, were able to get their education and make breakthroughs. Some made it through higher education, though there were sticky points—college, grad school. I interviewed one of the central scientists at Genentech who helped develop recombinant DNA for insulin. His name is Dennis Clyde. He nearly didn’t get his PhD because he struggled with writing his thesis. His sponsor had to appeal on his behalf. There’s also Kathy Drennan, an MIT professor. She reads by the shape of words. She was told she wasn’t college material. These stories are rare, but they’re powerful. They show that even if you’re late to the game, it’s not over. These individuals ignored bad advice and found their strengths through doing—not reading about it.
Kathy learned best in the lab, through experiments, discussions, and hands-on learning. So yes, early intervention is ideal, but lack of it doesn’t mean the path is closed.
Anna Cencioso: I’m so glad you said that, Fernette. My own son wasn’t remediated, and he’s a very successful adult. He did things his own way. The concern is that not every personality type can persevere like that. But I have to say, the dyslexic students I’ve worked with are some of the most persevering people I’ve ever met. They’ve always had to work harder, and they know how to overcome obstacles. Still, some kids aren’t wired that way. That’s why early screening is so important. Many parents say, “I’m dyslexic—I never knew until now.” And they’re attorneys, physicians, successful professionals. They just hope their kids have it a little easier. There are lots of successful dyslexics who were never remediated—Charles Schwab, Gavin Newsom, and many others. But we know about them because they’re visible. It might seem more common than it actually is.
Mandy Hoff: I was intrigued by the statistic in the movie about self-made millionaires. I hadn’t heard that before. And yes, the Schwab Learning Center is endowed by Charles Schwab, who didn’t know he was dyslexic until his child was diagnosed at Stanford—where he also went. So it’s absolutely possible to thrive without early intervention. But supporting self-esteem from a younger age makes a huge difference.
Yael Valek: I love this conversation. Let’s shift to the strength part of this discussion. Why is it critical to have a strength-based view of dyslexia?
Fernette Eide: We believe the fundamental presentation of dyslexia is a strength. In our book, The Mislabeled Child, Brock came up with the “telescope” metaphor. Depending on which end you look through, you either see things in sharp focus or distorted. Dyslexia has a two-sided nature—strengths and challenges are often two sides of the same coin.
Why focus on strengths? Because it’s all about strengths. Sometimes the challenges are what lead to breakthroughs. I coined the term “Einstein’s folly.” Early in his career, Einstein worked in a patent office, doing spatial-visual work. Later, he developed the theory of relativity. But he spent the rest of his life trying to prove things algebraically—focused on his weaknesses—and never had another breakthrough. If you’re someone who wants excellence, you can get stuck focusing on weaknesses and forget to nurture strengths. Remediation is important, but joy and mastery matter too. Strengths in childhood may differ from those in adulthood. A child might excel in sports or music, and that’s valuable. It may become an adult gift or simply a source of confidence.
Anna Cencioso: For young kids, school is seven to eight hours a day, filled with reading and writing. It’s easy for them to focus on what’s not going well. Dyslexics may be musically talented, athletic, artistic, or great at 3D building. Exploring those strengths gives them a sense of identity and value—not just “I’m a terrible student.”
These kids are movers and shakers. We want to support them so they can fulfill their potential. Parents can get frustrated when their child struggles with reading or writing. It’s natural to focus on those deficits. But kids also need to feel that their strengths matter—especially in their parents’ eyes. Parents are their mirror.
Mandy Hoff: Many dyslexic students I’ve worked with are incredibly strong in higher-level thinking—like inferencing and getting the gist. Meanwhile, some kids decode perfectly but don’t understand a thing they’ve read. It’s all about framing. Strengths and weaknesses are intertwined. Focusing on strengths leads to better outcomes.
Fernette Eide: In our book and movie, we talk about “MIND strengths”—Material reasoning, Interconnected reasoning, Narrative reasoning, and Dynamic reasoning. These clusters show up strongly in dyslexic learners. Verbal reasoning is often high in twice-exceptional kids. If you could design your brain, you’d want those higher-order thinking skills. Support the early years, give it time, and things come together. The contrast between high intelligence and frustrating clerical skills—like transcription—is striking. These kids may show deep insights before school, then struggle with classroom tasks. It’s a strange profile, but it’s real.
Anna Cencioso: That reminds me of math. Dyslexics who aren’t dyscalculic can grasp math concepts quickly. But if you ask them to show their work, they might get the wrong answer by the time they finish. They knew the answer, but the process tripped them up. There are so many strengths to celebrate.
These kids don’t get celebrated enough.
Fernette Eide: Agree.
Yael Valek: So I’d like to move us to some of the audience questions, which tie into what we’ve been discussing. What do you do with your school? What should we ask for? How do you talk to teachers who don’t understand dyslexia—especially when your child is profoundly gifted and compensating so well that they’re still high-achieving? Teachers often don’t believe you. And what are some strength-based assessment tools, models, templates, or guides that teachers can use?
Fernette Eide: There’s a free Mind Strengths screener at NeuroLearning that you can take. Brock has also quietly launched a new platform that ties together strengths and applies them to different types of curricula, mnemonics, and learning strategies. It’s part of the Dyslexic Minds community. People of all ages—from 7 to 70—can take the screener, and it generates personalized suggestions based on your strengths. It even includes a video library with hundreds of resources.
Anna Cencioso: It can be really hard. Most classroom teachers don’t understand the complexity of twice-exceptional dyslexic students. Public schools are especially tough because teachers often lack practical experience with these learners. As parents, you have to advocate—and sometimes take on the support yourself. If your child is supposed to read a book, get the audiobook. Most 2E kids I know love audiobooks. It’s a way for them to access content that matches their intellectual level, even if they struggle with decoding.
Mandy Hoff: When working with schools, start by assuming you’re a team. But also protect yourself—ask for things in writing and know your rights. Document everything. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Even if a teacher wants to help, it often comes down to the administration. So knowing your district’s policies and requesting accommodations formally is key.
Fernette Eide: NeuroLearning also offers a more in-depth screener for about $80. It’s not a full comprehensive test, but it can identify stealth dyslexia by analyzing gaps between vocabulary and decoding. It generates a 15-page report and has been used by over 8,000 people—including at Stanford. It’s helped many families secure 504 plans and even some IEPs. There’s also a writing assistant built into the platform that helps parents draft letters for schools. IEP meetings can be intimidating, and this tool helps you articulate what you’re asking for. If you work with a tutor, bring them to the meeting—they can be a powerful advocate. And one more thing: that screener qualifies for Bookshare, which provides free electronic books for students with documented reading disabilities. It’s one of the few screeners that meets their criteria.
Yael Valek: That’s incredibly helpful. And yes, the hope of the Dyslexic Advantage movie is to raise awareness and give parents and educators tools to support these learners. The film is expected to release in early October, and we’ll be hosting screenings.
Final question before we wrap: Mandy, can you speak to supporting twice-exceptional dyslexic kids in high school? Most resources focus on younger kids, but older students struggle with reading volume, note-taking, and executive functioning.
Mandy Hoff: Definitely. First, use the tools available. If Bookshare feels robotic, try Speechify—many students prefer it. Break reading and writing into manageable chunks. Teach executive functioning strategies like task segmentation and time management.
Self-advocacy is huge in high school. Help students draft emails to teachers if assignments don’t align with their accommodations. If speaking in person is hard, writing can be a great alternative. Normalize using accommodations—compare them to wearing glasses. I tell students, “Would you expect me to read the board without my glasses?” They get it. Accommodations aren’t cheating—they’re tools for equity.
Yael Valek: Thank you all so much. This was an amazing conversation. We hope to continue it, especially when we screen Fernette’s movie. If anyone wants to connect with our panelists, let us know—we’re happy to facilitate.
Anna Cencioso: Thank you. It was great to get together.
Fernette Eide: Thank you—this was a lot of fun.